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Who has used a chassis dyno and did it help your tune?

Posted By: BradH

Who has used a chassis dyno and did it help your tune? - 05/22/13 07:59 PM

The local Import Tuner shop that did my Subaru WRX "makeover" last year has a chassis dyno. That got me wondering about whether it would be a benefit to strap The MoPig (once running, obviously) down on it to see how it performs, maybe get some baseline air-fuel curve #s, etc.

Their shop foreman runs an Outlaw 10.5" Chebby, so it's not like they don't know what a carbureted American V8 is. Also, they seemed pretty interested in having my car on their chassis dyno after showing me videos of a 700+ RWHP modified supercharged Shelby 'stang on it.

So, who here has used a chassis dyno and did it really help w/ getting your tune dialed in? Or should I save the $$$ for test & tune entry fees at the track and dial it in the old fashioned way?

Posted By: Duner

Re: Who has used a chassis dyno and did it help your tune? - 05/22/13 08:25 PM

Usually the track is too crowded to make enough passes to try different things to see what works best. So the dyno makes much more sense for tuning experimentation. You can see immediately what helps and what hurts without some of the inconsistencies that happen at the track if you are strictly comparing timeslips. The wideband and graphing capabilities on the dyno help a ton.

The dyno has also helped me diagnose transmission problems correctly when I couldn't really pin down the problems at the track.

Imagine what this felt like? hehehe



You will still need to play with things like launch rpm and tire pressures at the track - but at least you can already be done tweaking things on the engine.
Posted By: BradH

Re: Who has used a chassis dyno and did it help your tune? - 05/22/13 08:28 PM

Those graphs look like my 5-year old daughter drew 'em.

I don't understand how the data can do things like that on a legit pull.
Posted By: BigBlockMopar

Re: Who has used a chassis dyno and did it help your tune? - 05/22/13 08:30 PM

This is not a dragracer, but just a dailydriver which I tuned for 1.5 year by ear, buttdyno, vacuum- and AFR-gauge.

I went to the dyno just to get a baseline HP-number and to see what the low cr 318 still put out.
At the location after the first run the shop-owner asked if I wanted to try something on the engine to see if there's more in it.
I didn't bring anything useful but I decided to try some minute changes in timing and mixture adjustments.

All the changes I did during the 5 consecutive runs made the engine put out less HP then the first run...
Was nice to find out I have a well calibrated buttdyno...!


This reply is of not much use in a racecar but just felt like sharing anyway...





Posted By: Duner

Re: Who has used a chassis dyno and did it help your tune? - 05/22/13 08:38 PM

The transmission was slipping in and out - so when the rpms fluctuated vs the load it went all crazy. It felt like a bucking bronco from the driver's seat. A straight engine rpm vs dyno roller speed graph showed it pretty clearly.
Posted By: AndyF

Re: Who has used a chassis dyno and did it help your tune? - 05/22/13 08:55 PM

I did a lot of chassis dyno work a few years ago. In fact, for a while I had a standing Friday morning date at the dyno shop. I eventually ran out of money but it was fun while it lasted.

I swapped intakes, carbs, air cleaners, ignitions, etc. on the dyno. We played with tire pressure and tire size and other things. I did several different cam swaps between dyno dates and generally tested a ton of combos.

I like the chassis dyno but there are a lot more variables than an engine dyno so you have to be careful about what you're testing. My car has a manual trans (Doug Nash 5 speed) so the tests were consistent and fairly easy to understand.
Posted By: dodgeboy11

Re: Who has used a chassis dyno and did it help your tune? - 05/22/13 09:01 PM

I used to run a chassis dyno and it did help with tuning but depending on the style, it can cause other issues. If it's a brake style then it'll work just fine for tuning, but if it's an inertia style then the engine will think the car is only as heavy as the drum the wheels are spinning. So if you have a hesitation while driving but tune it out on an inertia style dyno, it'll probably still be there when you take it out on the street. It really helps to have some sort of O2 reader to tie into it though I didn't always use that and would just make back to back tests after changing timing or jetting. Always go richer first (if there's no O2 sensor) and lower the timing first as this can prevent damage if you're borderline to start with.
Posted By: BradH

Re: Who has used a chassis dyno and did it help your tune? - 05/22/13 09:19 PM

Their dyno does have an air-fuel meter setup, but they can also weld in the bungs I have to test out my LM-1.

For me, the basics (timing, carb tuning) are the primary areas of interest, since I know that there are so many other things that require on-track testing to figure out.

Since it's a new top-end & cam combination on top of a freshened bottom end, I don't know what to expect from it compared to the old combination. I was thinking that having at least some baseline tune before hitting the track could be a time saver...
Posted By: Quicktree

Re: Who has used a chassis dyno and did it help your tune? - 05/22/13 09:32 PM

i did, had the A/F perfect on the dyno. got to the track and it was almost a second slower. leaned it out and went back to where we were.
Posted By: jg309

Re: Who has used a chassis dyno and did it help your tune? - 05/22/13 09:52 PM

we take our dirt car to WILLY'S carb & dino before we ever race each year,when he's done theres not 1/10 hp that your combo can produce left in your car, i hily recomend him & getting it done
Posted By: TheOtherDodge

Re: Who has used a chassis dyno and did it help your tune? - 05/22/13 10:57 PM

I had my truck intially tuned "on the street" to get a baseline. Of course, on the street you can't get too much speed, etc., so we finished on the dyno. That got us pretty close where the fine-tuning was done at the track.
Posted By: 70satelliteguy

Re: Who has used a chassis dyno and did it help your tune? - 05/22/13 10:57 PM


"BigBlockMopar "
Did the Dyno you used have a roof leak?

Mike
Posted By: sixpackgut

Re: Who has used a chassis dyno and did it help your tune? - 05/23/13 03:59 AM

Quote:

i did, had the A/F perfect on the dyno. got to the track and it was almost a second slower. leaned it out and went back to where we were.




why would that be? were you tuning for most hp on the dyno or best A/F?
Posted By: bigtimeauto

Re: Who has used a chassis dyno and did it help your tune? - 05/23/13 04:35 AM

I chassis dyno lots of cars but you guys can keep your AF meters i pull plugs.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Who has used a chassis dyno and did it help your tune? - 05/23/13 04:41 AM

I have been on a dyno twice... once was on Woodward
ave. for a demo run for show and tell... my car got
rained on sitting on my open trailer out there and it
poured water in my dist... I didnt know this untill
after I was up past 4000 rpm and it started breaking
up... then I went on Jakes dyno a few weeks later just
for kicks to see what it made
Posted By: Vintage

Re: Who has used a chassis dyno and did it help your tune? - 05/23/13 05:24 AM

Anyone tune nos on a chassis dyno? Not fine tune but to check basic function of a system?
Posted By: Quicktree

Re: Who has used a chassis dyno and did it help your tune? - 05/23/13 09:51 AM

Quote:

Quote:

i did, had the A/F perfect on the dyno. got to the track and it was almost a second slower. leaned it out and went back to where we were.




why would that be? were you tuning for most hp on the dyno or best A/F?




A/F with a new e-85 carb.not really concerned about hp. looking more for consistency
Posted By: BigBlockMopar

Re: Who has used a chassis dyno and did it help your tune? - 05/23/13 10:13 AM

Quote:


"BigBlockMopar "
Did the Dyno you used have a roof leak?

Mike





This was needed as extra cooling for the room to counter the heat from all that horsepower my little pony-Dart put out...
Posted By: sshemi

Re: Who has used a chassis dyno and did it help your tune? - 05/23/13 03:10 PM

Sorry to highjack but while where on the subject.
I know of a chassie dyno pretty close to me and not very expensive but...
The guy have not lowered the rollers into the floor. So the car would be very tilted forward.
Would that effevt the carb in abad way???
I belive so cause the float levels would be very off.
What do you guys think???
Posted By: sshemi

Re: Who has used a chassis dyno and did it help your tune? - 05/25/13 12:11 PM

No one???
Posted By: Mattax

Re: Who has used a chassis dyno and did it help your tune? - 05/25/13 01:04 PM

Quote:

Sorry to highjack but while where on the subject.
I know of a chassie dyno pretty close to me and not very expensive but...
The guy have not lowered the rollers into the floor. So the car would be very tilted forward.
Would that effevt the carb in abad way???
I belive so cause the float levels would be very off.
What do you guys think???




Agree that tilted forward will effect the carb. A tilt back would at least be similar to the effects of acceleration. Floats are fairly centered and should not be too much effected but the fuel levels relative to the emulsion holes, etc will be - and this will effect the fuel curve. Likewise the fuel level above the front jets will be lower. Not ideal for a baseline.

To the OP: Useful - yes. Degree of usefull depends on planning the test sessions. It's usually a lot more $ than going to the track, but it lets you focus on tuning. So I think its a good start if you can afford it.

Bring jets, secondary springs if relevant, etcs. Inertia only dyno is really best for tuning WOT in 3rd or 4th gear. My preference now is to take a two runs and then disconnect the secondaries and jet in the primaries. Then add in the secondaries. Possibe detours include adjusting the timing and adjusting bleeds.

On the ride back home, be prepared for the possiblilty that the primary jets are too lean during steady highway cruising - the engine will surge as it comes off the transistion (somewhere around 3000 rpm). For this reason, I now tend to err on the side of rich when on the dyno.

In my experience, having the Innovate WBO2 will provide a quicker and more detailed response curve for AFR. Tailpipe sniffer is OK, but the bungs are nice for street and strip use. However it is almost a requirement to also have rpm recorded. With a typical dynojet WBO2, expand the vertical scale so AFR from 12:1 to 14:1 takes up at least half the screen. With AFR I'm looking for a flat stabile line and the AFR number is mostly a reference point to best overall torque and HP curves. As you can see in the above image, at least with dynojet - sometimes its easier to read using the MPH vs. HP. Ask for a copy of the files and software reader.

Here's an Innovate data overlay showing that the primaries providing a flat AFR curve but the secondary side is not. Dynojet data shows the same thing. I'll try to attach.


Attached picture 7718283-N1-Discon-Secondaries.jpg
Posted By: tex013

Re: Who has used a chassis dyno and did it help your tune? - 05/26/13 04:41 AM

I use my engine shops chassis dyno often.
It is extremely useful for comparison use . I dont get goo wound up over actual rwhp shown . I look at afr to get in the ballpark . Comparison on changes , gain or loss .
Best use is repeatability right in front of you . You can do jetting and timing loops quickly and easier.

Tex
Posted By: 451Mopar

Re: Who has used a chassis dyno and did it help your tune? - 05/26/13 05:39 AM

Quote:

I use my engine shops chassis dyno often.
It is extremely useful for comparison use . I dont get goo wound up over actual rwhp shown . I look at afr to get in the ballpark . Comparison on changes , gain or loss .
Best use is repeatability right in front of you . You can do jetting and timing loops quickly and easier.

Tex





The drag strip is so packed anymore that you are lucky to get 3 or 4 runs in, and they are usually hours apart making it hard to see consistent back-to-back comparisons. On the chassis dyno, I can change jetting and timing several times in an hour, and at least have a known starting point on the tuning.
On the 500" stroked 400, i re-used the 950HP carb and jetted it richer for the larger engine just to be safe. Took the car to the chassis dyno, and ended up with about the same jetting the 451 was using. What the chassis dyno did not show was the carb wanted a bit more accelerator shot, so at the track, I changed the pump cam to the green one and it helped a slight stumble off the line.
Posted By: 340king

Re: Who has used a chassis dyno and did it help your tune? - 05/26/13 07:34 AM

I used a chassis dyno to well, tune the chassis on my circle track car. I really didn't even care about the engine output, as long as it wasn't rods! The usefulness of the tool is only limited by your preparation and ambition while on the dyno. I spent about a full day on the dyno sorting out different chassis changes.

I filmed them for the purpose of reviewing the chassis response to the changes. There is a lot to learn or that can be learned. Good luck if you go.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fn4_XhsTls
Posted By: sshemi

Re: Who has used a chassis dyno and did it help your tune? - 05/26/13 12:11 PM

If i go i will try to find the best power with timing and to get a flat a/f curve.
Then change jets at the track for most mph.
Posted By: BradH

Re: Who has used a chassis dyno and did it help your tune? - 05/26/13 07:11 PM

Quote:

If i go i will try to find the best power with timing and to get a flat a/f curve.
Then change jets at the track for most mph.



Same here, along w/ possibly swapping carbs to see what differences result.
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