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Pro Systems Carbs.

Posted By: gtsdon

Pro Systems Carbs. - 05/06/13 02:33 PM

Currently trying to work the bugs out of my new motor combo and have narrowed it down to the Carb and converter. Pro systems claims their 4150 custom built unit is worth an additional 15-30 HP over my current 750 Holley HP. Was wondering if anyone is using their carburetors and what their opinions are related to performance and drivability. The new Carb they are specifying will be in the 830 CFM range. My current combo is-

418 Cubic Inch Small Block.
RPM Air Gap INTAKE
E-heads ported by Ryan Johnson.
621/624- 254/258 Roller camshaft.
10.4.1 Compression Ratio.
1-7/8 TTI headers into 3" exhaust.
727 transmission with 3500 stall PTC Converter.
29" tall tires and 430 Gears all in a 3520 lb Dart (With Driver).

I feel the converter and Carb are holding this combo back (need 4800 stall ?) and would appreciate any advice you could provide.

Best ET to date-

11.57

60’- 1.67 (not spinning) Previous 340 combo went 1.54 60' times on same chassis setup.

330- 4.777
1/8- 7.385
Mph 93.95
1000- 9.650
1/4 mile 11.57 @ 116.79 MPH
Posted By: jim sciortino

Re: Pro Systems Carbs. - 05/06/13 03:28 PM

I would think thatcombo should be good for AT LEAST 550hp, so something is way off....

Converter does sound tight and the 750 seems small.
Posted By: Crizila

Re: Pro Systems Carbs. - 05/06/13 03:31 PM

Don't know about that claim, but I have run their carbs for a few years now, both in a NA 408 motor and now in a 408 blown application - actually the same carb ( 950 that they modified for a blow threw application ). I have had good luck with them. Both were very close right out of the box.
Posted By: skrews

Re: Pro Systems Carbs. - 05/06/13 03:48 PM

Something is off. That motor combo sounds strong. This ought to go low 11s as is IMO. The MPH is low, making me think that the motor isn't making the power it should or possibly trans problems / converter problems. Some time on the dyno might be revealing.
Posted By: sshemi

Re: Pro Systems Carbs. - 05/06/13 08:44 PM

I agree something is way off.
I run 94mph in the 1/8 with my 408 with flat tappet, 3800lbs a fourspeed and a 750 carb. Untuned.
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: Pro Systems Carbs. - 05/06/13 08:53 PM

Did you build the motor? If so did you degree the cam in or align the dots? Have you tried changing the squirters yet? 1.67 is really slow 60 ft. times Are you foot stalling the converter as tight as it will go or are you flashing it from a specicfic RPM ? If not flashing try that at different RPM and see if it hurts or helps the car off of the line Same thing on the squirters, I've seen .08 60 ft. gains(1.54 to 1.46 ) by going from a #37 sqirters(both ends) to #31
Posted By: Crizila

Re: Pro Systems Carbs. - 05/06/13 10:50 PM

Quote:

I agree something is way off.
I run 94mph in the 1/8 with my 408 with flat tappet, 3800lbs a fourspeed and a 750 carb. Untuned.

60 ft is definitely killing the Et and MPH is at least 4-5 too low. The 750 you are presently running is too small, but it's not your problem. Fuel system ( supply ) up to snuff? What are you running for timing and is the ignition system also up to par? Running a full exhaust? What is vacuum at idle? Try reading the plugs? What are you shifting at?
Posted By: gtsdon

Re: Pro Systems Carbs. - 05/07/13 12:07 AM

Cab Burge,
I did not build the motor. Ryan ported the heads and specked the combo. A local speed shop assembled the package. The cam was degreed in @ 104 per Bullets cam card.
The car launches best around 1500 RPM, if I load the converter tighter than that the engine will 60’ slower and will sometimes bog off the line. This is why I was pointing to the converter. I did bump the squirters up to 35s to get over a flat spot during street driving.
I am currently running a FBO ignition and the Distributer was curved for this combo. Thanks for all the help and suggestions.
Posted By: gtsdon

Re: Pro Systems Carbs. - 05/07/13 12:16 AM

I am shifting the car at 6200. It pulls clean and hard after the launch. Currently running a holley blue pump with 7 psi. The exhaust is 3" and turns out in front of the rear tires. Timing is currently 22 initial and 34 total.
Posted By: Crizila

Re: Pro Systems Carbs. - 05/07/13 12:43 AM

Quote:

I am shifting the car at 6200. It pulls clean and hard after the launch. Currently running a holley blue pump with 7 psi. The exhaust is 3" and turns out in front of the rear tires. Timing is currently 22 initial and 34 total.

Speed might not be too far off depending on exhaust restriction. 60' should be in the 1.40 range though. Tire dia., gear, convertor all look good to me. Carb jetting close to factory settings? What is fuel pressure through the lights? Floats set properly? Can you run it without the exhaust system to see if that makes a big difference? How do the plugs look? You could also try going up about 4 sizes in the jetting to see if that makes a difference ( depending on plug readings ). Running a compression check might be in order also. I do this with a new engine and at regular intervals ( every 20 passes or so ) just to verify all is well.
Posted By: sixpackgut

Re: Pro Systems Carbs. - 05/07/13 01:29 AM

Quote:

Cab Burge,
I did not build the motor. Ryan ported the heads and specked the combo. A local speed shop assembled the package. The cam was degreed in @ 104 per Bullets cam card.
The car launches best around 1500 RPM, if I load the converter tighter than that the engine will 60’ slower and will sometimes bog off the line. This is why I was pointing to the converter. I did bump the squirters up to 35s to get over a flat spot during street driving.
I am currently running a FBO ignition and the Distributer was curved for this combo. Thanks for all the help and suggestions.



while I wont argue with Don about ignitions, I am willing to bet your timing curve is to slow

but even so, your still down on power. have you done any tuning or are you just aching to spend money on a carb with the hopes of it being perfect out of the box?
Posted By: gtsdon

Re: Pro Systems Carbs. - 05/07/13 11:56 PM

Im not aching to spend money on a carb. I was simply asking for opinions between the HP 750 I already have compared to a 830 cfm larger throttle blade/ smaller venturi Pro System carbs. If my current carb is too small it could be contributing to why the motor is down on power. Just looking for others who have a similar engine combo and hoping to find out what is working for them.
Posted By: D-50

Re: Pro Systems Carbs. - 05/08/13 12:28 AM

I think the 750 cfm is too small for your combo..

Attached picture 7697561-CIMG0081.JPG
Posted By: Eric

Re: Pro Systems Carbs. - 05/08/13 02:43 AM

I may take my 850 Ray Murray off the Arrow...if I do you are welcome to try it...if it works for you we can talk..
Posted By: bdaz smblk

Re: Pro Systems Carbs. - 05/08/13 02:49 AM

Quote:

Currently trying to work the bugs out of my new motor combo and have narrowed it down to the Carb and converter. Pro systems claims their 4150 custom built unit is worth an additional 15-30 HP over my current 750 Holley HP. Was wondering if anyone is using their carburetors and what their opinions are related to performance and drivability. The new Carb they are specifying will be in the 830 CFM range. My current combo is-

418 Cubic Inch Small Block.
RPM Air Gap INTAKE
E-heads ported by Ryan Johnson.
621/624- 254/258 Roller camshaft.
10.4.1 Compression Ratio.
1-7/8 TTI headers into 3" exhaust.
727 transmission with 3500 stall PTC Converter.
29" tall tires and 430 Gears all in a 3520 lb Dart (With Driver).

I feel the converter and Carb are holding this combo back (need 4800 stall ?) and would appreciate any advice you could provide.

Best ET to date-

11.57

60’- 1.67 (not spinning) Previous 340 combo went 1.54 60' times on same chassis setup.

330- 4.777
1/8- 7.385
Mph 93.95
1000- 9.650
1/4 mile 11.57 @ 116.79 MPH

we built a motor real close to yours and it has a 950hp and a 4,600 conv with 275 radials and will run in the high 10's with pump gas.If u do buy a carb do yourself a favor and check out apd carbs.I myself have had 4 prosystems and only one of them was worth talking about.I bought a apd and didn't have to touch it.
Posted By: mshred

Re: Pro Systems Carbs. - 05/08/13 04:33 AM

I wouldn't buy anything from Patrick Lames if you paid me...but thats just me
Posted By: Charger453

Re: Pro Systems Carbs. - 05/08/13 04:38 AM

Pro Systems built me an E85 950 and it seems to work really well. Starts up easily, idles great, is very responsive and works well at the track. I even put in a wideband and the numbers were pretty good there too.
Posted By: 572charger

Re: Pro Systems Carbs. - 05/08/13 11:22 AM

pro systems on my hemi ,( dominator) picked up 2 tenths and 2 mph over my reworked 9375 dom ?? they work out of the box
Posted By: Dragula

Re: Pro Systems Carbs. - 05/08/13 12:33 PM

Quote:

pro systems on my hemi ,( dominator) picked up 2 tenths and 2 mph over my reworked 9375 dom ?? they work out of the box



I like that whole engine combination you have...Might have to copy that on my next go around....
Posted By: gtsdon

Re: Pro Systems Carbs. - 05/08/13 12:56 PM

bdazsmblk, What does your car weigh? If I could get mine to run low 11s I would be happy. By the way, I met you and your family at the MIR Mopar show a few years back. You guys have some awesome cars. Thanks for posting what worked for your combo.
Posted By: an8sec70cuda

Re: Pro Systems Carbs. - 05/08/13 02:59 PM

Quote:

pro systems on my hemi ,( dominator) picked up 2 tenths and 2 mph over my reworked 9375 dom ?? they work out of the box


Have one on my hemi too. It was good to go out the box. I tried different things w/ it, but ended up going right back where it was originally. Patrick also did my old 9375 dominator that's on my 440 and it runs great too.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Pro Systems Carbs. - 05/08/13 03:07 PM

My 416 is very similar to yours... mine on the dyno
made 550 hp and I used a 850 dp Holley... your conv
is holding you back on the 60' but thats not the problem
on the top end(mph)... mine is done at 6600 rpm right
now due to valve springs being to light for it...
and being that your MPH is down I would look at the
springs first thing.... also on the dyno it wanted
39* of timing so you might look at that also... granted
your heads are different than mine(I run W-5s) but
if your are ported they should be in the same ball park...
mine was dynoed with 93 octane... if you are running
a race type of fuel thats probably to much octane
for your timing and giving you a slow burn and killing
off HP
Posted By: gtsdon

Re: Pro Systems Carbs. - 05/08/13 04:28 PM

Thanks Mr P Body, I use pump gas on the street and at the track. Ryan set up the valve springs and selected this camshaft so they should be close. From the responses it appears I’m headed in the right direction. My plan is to change out the Carb and converter then run the car on the dyno for final tuning.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Pro Systems Carbs. - 05/08/13 05:10 PM

Quote:

Thanks Mr P Body, I use pump gas on the street and at the track. Ryan set up the valve springs and selected this camshaft so they should be close. From the responses it appears I’m headed in the right direction. My plan is to change out the Carb and converter then run the car on the dyno for final tuning.



To me when they state that the carb can make 15-30
hp more over the 750 its only because it flows more..
nothing magic about it... but if you didnt need a
larger carb it wouldnt really help... but in your
case and in mine the bigger carb would help but I
didnt want to put a 1050 dom on it because its a
street/strip type of car and more street
Posted By: bdaz smblk

Re: Pro Systems Carbs. - 05/09/13 12:48 AM

Quote:

bdazsmblk, What does your car weigh? If I could get mine to run low 11s I would be happy. By the way, I met you and your family at the MIR Mopar show a few years back. You guys have some awesome cars. Thanks for posting what worked for your combo.

We have never weighed the car but it is all steel but the hood and has full interior with a bench front seat and a 8 point mild steel bar.Thanks for the kind words too.Hope u get your car running what u want.Thanks Kenny
Posted By: DconD100

Re: Pro Systems Carbs. - 05/09/13 04:43 AM

That's a great engine combo. I have some info that may be helpful... When we dynoed my 408 with very similar specs, I was disappointed with the performer rpm. If memory serves it picked up somewhere around 20 hp and 15 ft lbs (observed) across the board with a M1 single plane. Now, we did start the pulls at 3500 rpm,and both were done with a 1 inch Wilson spacer and a 1000cfm 4150 on E85. I don't know what it would have done at lower rpms with a smaller carb, but it peaked with 578hp at 6200, even with the M1...which was the same peak rpm as the performer rpm. Maybe I'm comparing apples to oranges? Keep in mind it was dynoed at 6300 ft, and according to my engine builder it should have liked the performer rpm better.(which is why we started out with it)
Posted By: sshemi

Re: Pro Systems Carbs. - 05/09/13 06:19 PM

If i can find the time tomorrow i will hook a vac gauge to my 408 and really rev it to see if my 750 is too small.
Posted By: DodgeCharger

Re: Pro Systems Carbs. - 05/09/13 08:55 PM

I picked up 21 hp with the Prosystems carb on the dyno.
I know 21 hp doesn't seem like much but it is a lot to leave on the table by just using the wrong carb.
To my surprise the Prosystem carb actually runs better on the street then the carb I took off. By runs better on the street I mean idles at a lower rpm in gear and at light throttle it doesn't surge. If I were looking for a carb I would buy another one.
Posted By: sshemi

Re: Pro Systems Carbs. - 05/10/13 02:53 PM

Hooked up the vac gauge today and it didnt show any vac all the way up to 6000+ rpms
Posted By: DodgeCharger

Re: Pro Systems Carbs. - 05/10/13 03:59 PM

Quote:

Hooked up the vac gauge today and it didnt show any vac all the way up to 6000+ rpms



Do you have a vacuum leak? That doesn't sound possible.
Posted By: Performance Only

Re: Pro Systems Carbs. - 05/10/13 04:15 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Hooked up the vac gauge today and it didnt show any vac all the way up to 6000+ rpms



Do you have a vacuum leak? That doesn't sound possible.


I think he was testing the vacuum at WOT. It should still show some vacuum albeit 1" or less, but the engine needs to be under load for that to show up.
Posted By: DodgeCharger

Re: Pro Systems Carbs. - 05/10/13 04:29 PM

Okay now I understand.
Posted By: sshemi

Re: Pro Systems Carbs. - 05/10/13 06:48 PM

My vac gauge is not fine scale so i could have had a little vac but i think no more than maybe 0.5"
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