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E85 and 93 octain fuel mix for comp above 10:1

Posted By: BB65Barracuda

E85 and 93 octain fuel mix for comp above 10:1 - 03/28/13 11:44 AM

The Hemi is around 11:1 and was Dinoed with 108 and 93 mix.
I was looking at converting to E85 eventually but was wondering if a mix would work.
Instead of using race fuel @8 bucks a gallon, what about 105 octain E85 and 93 with the existing carbs?
Im sure the jet sizes would have to go up if I was going to the track but what about street duty?
Posted By: gregsdart

Re: E85 and 93 octain fuel mix for comp above 10:1 - 03/28/13 01:22 PM

Which Hemi, and aluminum or steel heads? If it is a 426 Gen II hemi, the octane will need to be higher than a new style Gen III . This program will require testing and buying fuel in bulk, to keep the mixture consistent. The change in octane is linear meaning at 50/50 you get the average of the two 25/75 you get a 25 percent boost in octane. How much cranking compression you have will also play a big part in all this. Better give some specs to us, to help determine what will work.
It might be much simpler to buy 93 octane and mix it with race fuel. It might not take a very strong mixture to get you where you need to be.
If your cam is fairly tame, a cam change may be a good option as well. More top end power, less octane needed.
Posted By: tboomer

Re: E85 and 93 octain fuel mix for comp above 10:1 - 03/28/13 01:28 PM

There are a few guys here that are well versed on e-85. AJ Casini does carbs and I know 440Jim is pretty knowledgeable on the subject.
Posted By: slippery440

Re: E85 and 93 octain fuel mix for comp above 10:1 - 03/28/13 01:31 PM

My advice is just go straight to E85. Buy the carbuator from who ever.Way to may problems when anyone starts to mix fuels. I love E85.
Posted By: tboomer

Re: E85 and 93 octain fuel mix for comp above 10:1 - 03/28/13 01:35 PM

Not to hijack but...Vic,do you buy 55 gallons at a time and test it? Thanks!
Posted By: BB65Barracuda

Re: E85 and 93 octain fuel mix for comp above 10:1 - 03/28/13 03:16 PM

Quote:

Which Hemi, and aluminum or steel heads? If it is a 426 Gen II hemi, the octane will need to be higher than a new style Gen III . This program will require testing and buying fuel in bulk, to keep the mixture consistent. The change in octane is linear meaning at 50/50 you get the average of the two 25/75 you get a 25 percent boost in octane. How much cranking compression you have will also play a big part in all this. Better give some specs to us, to help determine what will work.
It might be much simpler to buy 93 octane and mix it with race fuel. It might not take a very strong mixture to get you where you need to be.
If your cam is fairly tame, a cam change may be a good option as well. More top end power, less octane needed.



The motor is a mostly stock 1965 426 Hemi Manley h Beam rods and Bil lit eagle crank with forged aluminum Pistons. The stock cast iron heads have a mild bowl port, not much to speak of with the stock size SS valves and a Crane 510 Zip solid . Intake is the stock aluminum dual inline quad set up with 2 - AFB's
Posted By: Jacob Pitt

Re: E85 and 93 octain fuel mix for comp above 10:1 - 03/28/13 03:21 PM

Why exactly do you want to mix the fuels? I am running e85 on 14.5to1 compression in the Texas heat and have zero issues.
Posted By: BB65Barracuda

Re: E85 and 93 octain fuel mix for comp above 10:1 - 03/28/13 03:25 PM

I have STOCK AFB's and the question Im asking is can I use E85 instead of the 108 to mix and bring up my octain level without screwing up my motor?
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: E85 and 93 octain fuel mix for comp above 10:1 - 03/28/13 03:30 PM

Quote:

I have STOCK AFB's and the question Im asking is can I use E85 instead of the 108 to mix and bring up my octain level without screwing up my motor?



I dont know of anyone using AFBs with e-85 but if you
mix its gonna be lean if you dont adjust for the e-85..
in a normal e-85 application you would run 30% more
fuel to be equal to gas
Posted By: Jacob Pitt

Re: E85 and 93 octain fuel mix for comp above 10:1 - 03/28/13 03:32 PM

Quote:

I have STOCK AFB's and the question Im asking is can I use E85 instead of the 108 to mix and bring up my octain level without screwing up my motor?



Oh ok, I get the question now.
Posted By: BB65Barracuda

Re: E85 and 93 octain fuel mix for comp above 10:1 - 03/28/13 04:14 PM

Thant makes sense to me, Is their a rule of thumb for increasing the jet sizes?
Posted By: BB65Barracuda

Re: E85 and 93 octain fuel mix for comp above 10:1 - 03/28/13 05:19 PM

It look as though I have to get edelbrokes or Holley to do the conversion.
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: E85 and 93 octain fuel mix for comp above 10:1 - 03/28/13 06:04 PM

Quote:

It look as though I have to get edelbrokes or Holley to do the conversion.

I think any carb. can be converted to E85 by a good carb. guy, the real concern is if you ever want to go back to pump gas and have the original carbs. converted back to gas. I would buy a set of E85 carbs for E85 and save the other ones for later, especially if thier the correct part numbers for that year motor BTW, I don't think any late or current made Holleys will fit on a stock Street Hemi 2x4 intake
Posted By: BB65Barracuda

Re: E85 and 93 octain fuel mix for comp above 10:1 - 03/28/13 06:08 PM

I think your right as far as the Hemi car goes.
I didn't think this thru in that it's a 1 way deal.
Perhaps I will look into a set of carbs and keep my original just in case.
But I will convert my single carb 440 dart to E85.
I have several holleys on the shelf.
Posted By: slippery440

Re: E85 and 93 octain fuel mix for comp above 10:1 - 03/28/13 07:03 PM

Quote:

Not to hijack but...Vic,do you buy 55 gallons at a time and test it? Thanks!



The first 2 years I mixed my own.I bought 2 55 gallon barrels of E98 and found a gas station that sold non alcohol gas. Making the right mixture was easy. I just marked a gallon jug and added the E85 to the gas and 95% of time it was dead on E85 or E86.
Now there are gas stations close and yes I buy it from a gas station. The steel drums from the E98 are used. I take a test right at the pumps before I fill. The best part I still have E98 stored in a small contaner so if the blend is weak I can jack it up. I can tell you it does not take much to change the blend.
Posted By: cudadon

Re: E85 and 93 octain fuel mix for comp above 10:1 - 03/29/13 03:18 AM

Quote:

I have STOCK AFB's and the question Im asking is can I use E85 instead of the 108 to mix and bring up my octain level without screwing up my motor?



Also ethanol DOESNT mix well with leaded fuels.
And it will clean all the old dirt and varnish in a used tank/fuel lines, it will end up inthe carbs.
Don

Attached picture 7645120-Bee&Cuda.JPG
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: E85 and 93 octain fuel mix for comp above 10:1 - 03/29/13 04:16 AM

Quote:

Thant makes sense to me, Is their a rule of thumb for increasing the jet sizes?



You need to increase your fuel 30% across the whole
thing when you go to E-85(idle, mid and wot)
Posted By: gregsdart

Re: E85 and 93 octain fuel mix for comp above 10:1 - 03/29/13 01:39 PM

If the motor only needs a moderate octane increase, it may be possible to come up with a mix that the carbs can handle as is. If the fuel is blended to make something like E40, it should have about 96 octane, and only require a jet change of a few steps to correct the fuel mixture. With dual carbs which are not maxed out for air and fuel flow at WOT, it might be very possible. One trip to a chassis dyno with a couple of carb tuning kits and a fresh load of mixed fuel ought to tell the tale. I am considering this for my 5.7 stroker street motor.
Posted By: BBR

Re: E85 and 93 octain fuel mix for comp above 10:1 - 03/29/13 04:13 PM

E30 is available here at the blender pump stations. I've been thinking about trying it since the super unleaded here is 90.

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: E85 and 93 octain fuel mix for comp above 10:1 - 03/29/13 04:54 PM

Hemis are not as prone to detonation as a Wedge is , have you tried running it with just 93 and maybe bump the timing back a few degrees when running it on the street ?
Posted By: BB65Barracuda

Re: E85 and 93 octain fuel mix for comp above 10:1 - 03/29/13 11:49 PM

So you think I can run 11:1 on 93 octain and just retard the timing a bit? I am very worried about detonating. I took the car out this afternoon and had only 93 in the car.
I sounded and ran great! Very limited trip down the street and back.
I didn't hear anything out of the ordinary. .
But I am running open headers.
Posted By: BB65Barracuda

Re: E85 and 93 octain fuel mix for comp above 10:1 - 03/31/13 12:34 PM

Well I am going to buy a set of carbs for the E85.
I went to the local car qeust and bought 5 gallons of 108 octain VR110 fuel and did a 50/50 mix with 93 octain from the local Mobile station.
to the tune of 60.00
I had to advance the timing to 37 degrees full advance and adjust the idle.
This thing with open headers on the street is an absolute Beast!!
Just tapping the gas lightly at a stop light produces instant wheel spin. Standing on the gas Produces a sound and feeling that makes me really respect the fellows that designed this awesome work of mechanical art.
I have ran Mopars almost all of my adult life but this is my first 426 Hemi. Ive ran a lot of fast 440 cars and will not argue the validity of their dominance on the street and track, but man what a motor!
I can tell Im going to drive this monster every chance I get this summer. So if I can get the same performance from E85 and save many dollars per gallon it's a no Brain-er!!!!!
just in case though, I.ll be keeping the stock cabs!

Posted By: jbc426

Re: E85 and 93 octain fuel mix for comp above 10:1 - 03/31/13 03:06 PM

You may want to do a Google search for local stations that carry 100 octane unleaded. My aluminium headed 493 is just under 13 to 1. I run it on the street with 22 initial and 34 total all in at 1500 rpm. I tried mixing leaded race gas with the premium pump swill they sell here in cCalifornia, but it's a bit of a pain.

This motor LOVES the generic 100 octane unleaded they sell at a local station for $7.25 a gallon 24-7 & 365. It smells so good raw or burned, it runs super clean and makes lots of power. There's another nearby station that sells the Street Blaze brand 100 octane unleaded, but it costs about a dollar a gallon more.

By the way, pump premium is about $4.50 a gallon here anyway.
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