Ran the 440 small block Dakota - Thoughts?

What did your engine dyno? (On the pump not RWHP, just out of curiosity) Also, what did your 59 degree W9's flow? There's been a couple of posts on here lately about how they're a waste of time and to go with 48 degree W9's, so I'm curious what kind of flow you got out of them.
Your truck's 1/4 mile time seems pretty impressive, it's running LOW 11's (possible high 10's) with the aerogynamics of a brick, low compression, and an unoptimized set up (not saying your set up isn't good, but it probably could use more gear and convertor if you were going for an all out time, but I'm guessing in the name of streetability you made a compromise on the gearing and converter, as most of us would on a street car).
Lots of 440 wedge and Hemi cars running slower than you are. I think people see "W9" and expect 9 second 1/4 mile times

Posted By: 1967dartgt

Re: Ran the 440 small block Dakota - Thoughts? - 03/11/13 01:39 AM

I would ditch the perimeter plate. Spray bars work much better.

Posted By: Otherlane

Re: Ran the 440 small block Dakota - Thoughts? - 03/11/13 02:43 PM

A 4000 pound truck with a 9-1 small block and a 3500 converter running 11.20s is pretty good to me. Than going though the traps at 6000 rpm.my w8 goes though at 8000 with 4.56 gears.just think if your truck weigh 3000 pounds if the rule of thumb is right that's a 10.20 truck.i think if you want to make this truck fast you can but you have a light set up for nos or turbo.are you running a nos or turbo camshaft?

Posted By: ADakotaRTGuy

Re: Ran the 440 small block Dakota - Thoughts? - 03/11/13 03:16 PM

Yea dont get me wrong for what it is I am really happy. Chris did a great job after I changed the setup on him part way through. He did get a NA cam in there. 256 or so with .668 lift on a 110.

Posted By: ADakotaRTGuy

Re: Ran the 440 small block Dakota - Thoughts? - 03/11/13 08:34 PM

Head flow numbers from Ryan.

.100"--76.5/N/A
.200"--145.0/113.1
.300"--204.8/167.6
.400"--261.1/215.7
.450"--283.3/227.9
.500"--306.8/236.1
.550"--319.4/240.9
.600"--337.4/245.3
.650"--348.2/248.4
.700"--353.1/251.2

Posted By: Streetwize

Re: Ran the 440 small block Dakota - Thoughts? - 03/11/13 09:09 PM

Lower compression might want higher RPM to squeeze some cylinder pressure out of it. You have the head flow to support it

Looks like a good app for spray if your not gonna spool it or pull the heads for more CR.

Posted By: ADakotaRTGuy

Re: Ran the 440 small block Dakota - Thoughts? - 03/11/13 09:17 PM

Quote:

Lower compression might want higher RPM to squeeze some cylinder pressure out of it. You have the head flow to support it

Looks like a good app for spray if your not gonna spool it or pull the heads for more CR.

Already have the system in there.

Posted By: Hot 340

Re: Ran the 440 small block Dakota - Thoughts? - 03/11/13 09:30 PM

Quote:

Nice passes for being able to run on 87 gas.

My thought exactly. That combo is the definition of mild and heavy. I think it works pretty good for not being ironed out yet.

Posted By: Duner

Re: Ran the 440 small block Dakota - Thoughts? - 03/11/13 10:06 PM

Nothing wrong with the color... and it will absolutely fly with a turbo on it to double the power! LOL

Posted By: ADakotaRTGuy

Re: Ran the 440 small block Dakota - Thoughts? - 03/11/13 10:10 PM

You build it and pay for it Duner, I will put it on, haha. I will even give you a set of W9 Dakota headers in return.

Posted By: Duner

Re: Ran the 440 small block Dakota - Thoughts? - 03/11/13 10:14 PM

I'm having enough trouble just staying where I am!

I have no more money to "invest" in Dakotas.... Yours or Mine! LOL

But if you just felt like sending me those heads to see what they do with boost - just let me know!

Posted By: ADakotaRTGuy

Re: Ran the 440 small block Dakota - Thoughts? - 03/12/13 12:30 AM

I will keep that in mind.

Posted By: dizuster

Re: Ran the 440 small block Dakota - Thoughts? - 03/12/13 12:44 AM

118mph with a 440" motor and 350cfm of head flow?

Something is seriously wrong. Even if it didn't ET well because of low compression (torque) and tight converter it should have still mph'd better then that.

For reference...My old 3700lb belvedere went nearly 114mph with a 440, 484 cam, 8.5:1, and box stock edelbrocks.

What did Ryan say? How much timing do you have in it?

Posted By: ADakotaRTGuy

Re: Ran the 440 small block Dakota - Thoughts? - 03/12/13 12:55 AM

Didn't ask Ryan as he did not build it, he just did the porting. Timing is at about 33 degrees, remember though its fuel injected. We know it still has more in it, for a first time out I think its doing very well.

Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: Ran the 440 small block Dakota - Thoughts? - 03/12/13 01:29 AM

You nitrous heads are funny. If something doesn't run as expected first words out of your mouths is " Hit it with some NOS"

Some people can still get it done with some good old hard work.

Posted By: dizuster

Re: Ran the 440 small block Dakota - Thoughts? - 03/12/13 02:05 AM

If you're happy that's all that counts.

Posted By: ADakotaRTGuy

Re: Ran the 440 small block Dakota - Thoughts? - 03/12/13 03:45 AM

So how much power do you think is realistically left on the table by having the compression so low? Raising it to 11:1 would net me what? 60 hp? Maybe more with the good flow from the heads?

Hate to dump more money into it right now. I am stationed in Italy and don't even get to enjoy it really. Won't be back stateside till 2015 racing season.

Posted By: DakFink

Re: Ran the 440 small block Dakota - Thoughts? - 03/12/13 10:33 AM

Stick with what you got and go your original route as you had planned, as money allows.

Change the Cam, Boost it (Turbo or S/C) and re-tune and you'll be flyin'!!

11.25 is good for a Pig!! And we know these trucks are that!

Posted By: TheOtherDodge

Re: Ran the 440 small block Dakota - Thoughts? - 03/12/13 01:20 PM

It seems like there are a lot of people who don't understand a "power adder" motor. They think N/A the motor should run just as good as a N/A specific motor...

Put 15 lbs of boost on that or 250 shot and see how it runs. And thats with a 9:1 compression motor and only 3500 converter and mild gears.

Posted By: dizuster

Re: Ran the 440 small block Dakota - Thoughts? - 03/12/13 02:53 PM

So other then 9:1 what makes thus a power adder motor?

I get that its soft on the bottom end because of the compression and converter, but I would think that it should mph better then 118...

The surprising thing is that it actually 60 footed pretty good. 1.58 isn't bad at all for 4000 lbs. How much mph did it go in the 1/8 mile?

Posted By: ADakotaRTGuy

Re: Ran the 440 small block Dakota - Thoughts? - 03/12/13 02:59 PM

It was at 96 at the 1/8th.

Posted By: julian2007

Re: Ran the 440 small block Dakota - Thoughts? - 03/12/13 04:18 PM

anyone who says your dakota is not bad fast for what it is does not race.make no mistake that ting is fast for what you have in it.I am the frist to call bull $hit on someont when they start with 3900 lb race cars but I know what those dakotas weigh.440 small block+3900 lbs
running 11.20's = FAST

Attached picture 7623104-dakota.jpg

Posted By: Triple Threat

Re: Ran the 440 small block Dakota - Thoughts? - 03/12/13 04:25 PM

I agree that truck is fast, using the old rule of thumb 100# = .10, subtract 1000 pounds and its a low 10 second ride.

That's fast with low compression, not a ton of camshaft, and mild gears. Especially on the first day out, it will go faster with tuning i'm sure.

Be proud of what you have there, it is a nice piece.

Posted By: TheOtherDodge

Re: Ran the 440 small block Dakota - Thoughts? - 03/12/13 08:05 PM

Generally power adders (depending on what type of power adder) will use a much different gear, converter, compression ratio, cam...

For instance, mine is 3.55 geared w/30" tall tire, 3000 converter, 9:1 compression, cam with 0 overlap, shifting at 6000 rpm. This is all because it is set up for turbo and would probably run 12.0 on motor only.

Posted By: ADakotaRTGuy

Re: Ran the 440 small block Dakota - Thoughts? - 03/12/13 08:10 PM

Quote:

anyone who says your dakota is not bad fast for what it is does not race.make no mistake that ting is fast for what you have in it.I am the frist to call bull $hit on someont when they start with 3900 lb race cars but I know what those dakotas weigh.440 small block+3900 lbs
running 11.20's = FAST

Julian, that is a nice truck. What is done to yours?

Posted By: dizuster

Re: Ran the 440 small block Dakota - Thoughts? - 03/12/13 11:03 PM

I'm not trying to knock what you've done. I hope that doesn't come off that way. I'm just telling you that you should figure out what's wrong so you can get the most out of your combo.

If this one made 470hp to the tire, it probably makes 550~575 at the crank.

Just look at some other combo's. Here is a 340" with unported w9's that made 602hp on pump gas.

http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/techarticles/engine/mopp_0310_340_engine_600_hp/viewall.html

There is no reason why your's shouldn't make more power then this. Even if this one has more compression, your heads are MUCH better then an unported w9.

Like I said... sorry if it came off like I was knocking you. I was just trying to help.

Posted By: ADakotaRTGuy

Re: Ran the 440 small block Dakota - Thoughts? - 03/12/13 11:08 PM

Quote:

I'm not trying to knock what you've done. I hope that doesn't come off that way. I'm just telling you that you should figure out what's wrong so you can get the most out of your combo.

If this one made 470hp to the tire, it probably makes 550~575 at the crank.

Just look at some other combo's. Here is a 340" with unported w9's that made 602hp on pump gas.

http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/techarticles/engine/mopp_0310_340_engine_600_hp/viewall.html

There is no reason why your's shouldn't make more power then this. Even if this one has more compression, your heads are MUCH better then an unported w9.

Like I said... sorry if it came off like I was knocking you. I was just trying to help.

That is all great, but you are missing one important part. Those are 48 degree heads. They flow as much as mine out of the box and can go much much higher.

Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: Ran the 440 small block Dakota - Thoughts? - 03/12/13 11:26 PM

Just another reason why I hate dyno's. They can be manipulated (corrected) like anything else. Every car in popular hot rod and every other magazine has articles about 600 plus cars every month like its a common everyday occurrence. Show me the time slip, which he has done on his first outing to the track, in a VERY heavy, box like vehicle. When you take a 9.1 compression engine and add aluminum heads its almost like a 7.5 comp engine with cast iron heads. At least this guys taking it to the track. Keep having fun in that great looking truck.

Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: Ran the 440 small block Dakota - Thoughts? - 03/12/13 11:30 PM

By the way, thank-you for your service of serving our Country. Its because of guys like you that we can close our eyes at night and fall asleep.

Posted By: Duner

Re: Ran the 440 small block Dakota - Thoughts? - 03/12/13 11:58 PM

Magazines.....

The number of people who have never been to the track to run or even spectate - but still believe they have a 9-second car just staggers the imagination and boggles the mind. They think that way because they read magazines and bench race with their buddies with ZERO basis for reality.

Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: Ran the 440 small block Dakota - Thoughts? - 03/13/13 12:18 AM

Quote:

Magazines.....

The number of people who have never been to the track to run or even spectate - but still believe they have a 9-second car just staggers the imagination and boggles the mind. They think that way because they read magazines and bench race with their buddies with ZERO basis for reality.

110%. I call them bar stool racers.

Posted By: ADakotaRTGuy

Re: Ran the 440 small block Dakota - Thoughts? - 03/13/13 12:21 AM

Quote:

I'm not trying to knock what you've done. I hope that doesn't come off that way. I'm just telling you that you should figure out what's wrong so you can get the most out of your combo.

If this one made 470hp to the tire, it probably makes 550~575 at the crank.

Just look at some other combo's. Here is a 340" with unported w9's that made 602hp on pump gas.

http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/techarticles/engine/mopp_0310_340_engine_600_hp/viewall.html

There is no reason why your's shouldn't make more power then this. Even if this one has more compression, your heads are MUCH better then an unported w9.

Like I said... sorry if it came off like I was knocking you. I was just trying to help.

Here is the side to side comparison. You can see mine has TQ, theirs has RPM, two different motors. I had to hand jam it and convert it all, so might have some errors, but it makes sense. used 18% powertrain loss.

Posted By: ADakotaRTGuy

Re: Ran the 440 small block Dakota - Thoughts? - 03/13/13 12:22 AM

Quote:

By the way, thank-you for your service of serving our Country. Its because of guys like you that we can close our eyes at night and fall asleep.

Thanks Pitt, its a pleasure.

Posted By: dizuster

Re: Ran the 440 small block Dakota - Thoughts? - 03/13/13 01:23 AM

The flow sheet is there in the article, they only flow 280...

Posted By: dizuster

Re: Ran the 440 small block Dakota - Thoughts? - 03/13/13 01:31 AM

Ok... sorry... you guys got it all figured out. Us racer/engineer types that want to use experience and data must be wrong. If the keyboard experts of moparts want to make you feel better about spending $10k on a motor to run 11.20's, then who am I to tell you different.

Good luck...

Posted By: ADakotaRTGuy

Re: Ran the 440 small block Dakota - Thoughts? - 03/13/13 02:49 AM

Quote:

Ok... sorry... you guys got it all figured out. Us racer/engineer types that want to use experience and data must be wrong. If the keyboard experts of moparts want to make you feel better about spending $10k on a motor to run 11.20's, then who am I to tell you different.

Good luck...

So what do you think is the issue? Saying something is wrong does not help anyone. It has quality components. Optimum set up? No, but it is what it is right now. Only thing I could think of is the Intake. That is a straight out of the box 772 intake. What do those flow?

Posted By: TheOtherDodge

Re: Ran the 440 small block Dakota - Thoughts? - 03/13/13 01:29 PM

ADakotaRTguy: So you think a set up specifically to run a turbo will run like a bat out of hell without the turbo?

Posted By: ADakotaRTGuy

Re: Ran the 440 small block Dakota - Thoughts? - 03/13/13 01:58 PM

No, I was pretty happy with the times. I was not expecting that low a run with the potential to run faster when the shift light issue is worked out and I am able to adjust the suspension. I did no changes to the suspension at the track this time, simply worked the tune.

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Ran the 440 small block Dakota - Thoughts? - 03/13/13 02:55 PM

You said it was lean... once you get that right it
will make more power.... get on that laptop and give
it some fuel.... if the injectors will support it

Posted By: Duner

Re: Ran the 440 small block Dakota - Thoughts? - 03/13/13 05:18 PM

Everybody should go to this link and view the graphing HP calculator.

http://vexer.com/automotive-tools/1-4-mile-ET-HP-MPH-calculator

Put in the weight of the vehicle (4300#?) and move the HP slider until it makes the 118 mph. NOW - move the weight slider down to the weight that most people in race cars race with. (3000#?).... now look at the mph number.

Posted By: ADakotaRTGuy

Re: Ran the 440 small block Dakota - Thoughts? - 03/13/13 05:20 PM

Fixed the issue with the lean spots at the track last time. That time was a run, but unsure of the shift points.

Posted By: Duner

Re: Ran the 440 small block Dakota - Thoughts? - 03/13/13 05:29 PM

How much does your truck weigh now?

Posted By: ADakotaRTGuy

Re: Ran the 440 small block Dakota - Thoughts? - 03/13/13 05:30 PM

Quote:

How much does your truck weigh now?

3898 with my 160 in it.

Posted By: SLOW67

Re: Ran the 440 small block Dakota - Thoughts? - 03/13/13 05:51 PM

Quote:

You build it and pay for it Duner, I will put it on, haha. I will even give you a set of W9 Dakota headers in return.

Come off your current headers and y into a single and bring it back up in the engine compartment, through on a flange, add a cheap ebay turbo (they sell cheapo 88's now) and your in business. I probably have less than $800 in my actual turbo setup, my biggest cost was fuel system and bits and pieces. It's very pretty but my cheap turbo has been through a good amount of abuse and still works great. I bet I ran it two weeks driving it every day with the drain 3/4 stopped up. It puked alot of oil out of the seals but recovered fine after I fixed the drain

Posted By: julian2007

Re: Ran the 440 small block Dakota - Thoughts? - 03/13/13 06:24 PM

Quote:

Quote:

anyone who says your dakota is not bad fast for what it is does not race.make no mistake that ting is fast for what you have in it.I am the frist to call bull $hit on someont when they start with 3900 lb race cars but I know what those dakotas weigh.440 small block+3900 lbs
running 11.20's = FAST

Julian, that is a nice truck. What is done to yours?

I was a 446 with b1 bs heads no port work to speak of a 600 lift flat tappet 10.5 to 1 comp two 750 eddys, hooker super comp headers 10 inch converter,456 gears, 14 32 tires power,windows,power stearing,cd,ac,all working lights e-brake.I weighed 3770 lbs with me in it but I had allot of it cut away,like alum fire wall,glass nose,no rear seat,race buckets,alum bed floor.but it had a eu 2000 generator in the bed to run the a/c and to charge the battery between rounds.It went 10.70's it dynoed 575 hp at Bob Kammers in dayton oh

Also people in the armed forces are first class all the way

Attached picture 7624547-04Mart%2016.jpg

Posted By: ADakotaRTGuy

Re: Ran the 440 small block Dakota - Thoughts? - 03/13/13 06:53 PM

Very nice ride.

Posted By: TheOtherDodge

Re: Ran the 440 small block Dakota - Thoughts? - 03/13/13 08:21 PM

Get your tune correct, put on your turbo as planned, run some 9's and then ask "Ran the 440 small block Dakota - Thoughts?" again...

Posted By: ADakotaRTGuy

Re: Ran the 440 small block Dakota - Thoughts? - 03/13/13 08:25 PM

The tune is good, Chris from PIE was at the track doing the tuning. Just need to get the Nitrous bugs worked out and be able to shift at 7k vs the maybe 6600 to 6800 I was shifting at last weekend.

Posted By: TheOtherDodge

Re: Ran the 440 small block Dakota - Thoughts? - 03/13/13 08:59 PM

Next time you talk to Chris, tell him James from Houston said Hi. He is a good guy!

Posted By: ADakotaRTGuy

Re: Ran the 440 small block Dakota - Thoughts? - 03/13/13 09:32 PM

Will do.

Posted By: vc360

Re: Ran the 440 small block Dakota - Thoughts? - 03/14/13 11:49 AM

If you intend to stay nat asp for a while pull the heads and get a second opinion.

Posted By: ADakotaRTGuy

Re: Ran the 440 small block Dakota - Thoughts? - 03/14/13 12:05 PM

Second opinion on what aspect?

Posted By: vc360

Re: Ran the 440 small block Dakota - Thoughts? - 03/16/13 01:45 PM

Quote:

Second opinion on what aspect?

Have someone familiar with the w9 take a look, if your a little dissapointed in the performance start there, and give the manifold some love while its off. Maybe see w5dart66 and get him to look at them.

Ran the 440 small block Dakota - Thoughts?