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Fluidampr with Eagle Crank Problem

Posted By: Mopar_Mike

Fluidampr with Eagle Crank Problem - 03/02/13 09:44 PM

I went to put on a Fluidampr (bought used) for my 440/505 build. I put the damper on and found that it does not go on the crank snout deep enough. After some researching I see the snout on the Eagle crank is about 1.75" while a stock 440 crank is around 2.5". So I see my problem, but what do you guys do? Do you switch out the center of the Fluidampr? Looks like it needs to be about 3/4" shorter to work?

Thanks.
Posted By: Clanton

Re: Fluidampr with Eagle Crank Problem - 03/02/13 09:53 PM

With the timing gear against the crank I would say the it is shorter on the nose.Did you do any other meassurements?
Posted By: Mopar_Mike

Re: Fluidampr with Eagle Crank Problem - 03/02/13 10:15 PM

The timing gear does go against the crank (bottomed out), but with it in that position its about an 1" too far out to line up the pulleys
Posted By: Clanton

Re: Fluidampr with Eagle Crank Problem - 03/02/13 10:29 PM

I would say if you have a stock damper take them both to a machinest and have the hub milled down to match.Do you have someone to take it to?
Posted By: Mopar_Mike

Re: Fluidampr with Eagle Crank Problem - 03/02/13 10:31 PM

I suppose having it milled would work, but just wondering if there is a different hub out there..
No, I do not know of anybody who could do that..
Posted By: Clanton

Re: Fluidampr with Eagle Crank Problem - 03/02/13 10:40 PM

Is there a part # on it?
Posted By: Mopar_Mike

Re: Fluidampr with Eagle Crank Problem - 03/02/13 10:48 PM

No part number.. here is a pic.. I would guess take an 1" off the snout it would work? but I don't know..

Attached picture 7610278-IMGP2273.JPG
Posted By: fbs63

Re: Fluidampr with Eagle Crank Problem - 03/02/13 11:27 PM

That hub looks like its from an ATI damper. They have different pn hubs for chain,belt or gear drive. Hope this helps.

Attached picture 7610321-CarPic2.jpg
Posted By: Clanton

Re: Fluidampr with Eagle Crank Problem - 03/02/13 11:31 PM

so you don,t have a damper just a hub!BDS sells a hub and maybe look at RBS superchargers.com for a used one is all I can think of rite now.A hub new is 125$ I think.
Posted By: Mopar_Mike

Re: Fluidampr with Eagle Crank Problem - 03/02/13 11:38 PM

I have the damper itself and it is a fluidampr, I just unbolted the hub from the damper. It is suppose to be for a 440, and I think it would work fine with a standard 440 steel crank, its just I have an eagle crank..
Posted By: fbs63

Re: Fluidampr with Eagle Crank Problem - 03/02/13 11:43 PM

When you install the damper,how much clearence from the back of the damper to the timming cover?
Posted By: Mopar_Mike

Re: Fluidampr with Eagle Crank Problem - 03/02/13 11:55 PM

IMO too much.. about an 1" It is also bottomed out on the crank at that point as well and cannot go on anymore.
Posted By: Mopar-Al

Re: Fluidampr with Eagle Crank Problem - 03/03/13 12:57 AM

Quote:

I went to put on a Fluidampr (bought used) for my 440/505 build. I put the damper on and found that it does not go on the crank snout deep enough. After some researching I see the snout on the Eagle crank is about 1.75" while a stock 440 crank is around 2.5". So I see my problem, but what do you guys do? Do you switch out the center of the Fluidampr? Looks like it needs to be about 3/4" shorter to work?

Thanks.




Are you sure that your crank is going to be ok? It may be possible that you are attempting to shoot yourself in the foot.
Posted By: Mopar_Mike

Re: Fluidampr with Eagle Crank Problem - 03/03/13 01:06 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I went to put on a Fluidampr (bought used) for my 440/505 build. I put the damper on and found that it does not go on the crank snout deep enough. After some researching I see the snout on the Eagle crank is about 1.75" while a stock 440 crank is around 2.5". So I see my problem, but what do you guys do? Do you switch out the center of the Fluidampr? Looks like it needs to be about 3/4" shorter to work?

Thanks.




Are you sure that your crank is going to be ok? It may be possible that you are attempting to shoot yourself in the foot.



Why wouldn't my crank be ok?

Maybe I should ask this question.. what balancer are those with Eagle 505 strokers using?
Posted By: Mopar-Al

Re: Fluidampr with Eagle Crank Problem - 03/03/13 01:25 AM

Well, the reason why I asked was, I haven't never had to use any type of special cut balancer on a b rb block fit. I have a fluid on my eagle crank and it fits, so does a stock damper. I'm wondering if you got something wrong with that 1 particular crank. I do not claim to no it all, or even close, but I do know that I hadn't seen that big of a difference on a crank snout as of yet.
Posted By: HPMike

Re: Fluidampr with Eagle Crank Problem - 03/03/13 02:36 AM

Quote:

Well, the reason why I asked was, I haven't never had to use any type of special cut balancer on a b rb block fit. I have a fluid on my eagle crank and it fits, so does a stock damper. I'm wondering if you got something wrong with that 1 particular crank. I do not claim to no it all, or even close, but I do know that I hadn't seen that big of a difference on a crank snout as of yet.





I have used tons of Eagle Cranks and never had any dimensional problems as you suggest(OP), unless I am misunderstanding what you are trying to do.

As for a suggestion, I use nothing but ATI dampers on all race(even hot street)builds.. Sure there are cheaper alternatives, but I stick to what works for me...

MB
Posted By: fourgearsavoy

Re: Fluidampr with Eagle Crank Problem - 03/03/13 02:40 AM

I have a Fluidamper on my Eagle crank with no issues
But I don't remember it being a two piece unit though,in fact I have never seen one in the last four I installed on engines I have built
Gus

Attached picture 7610585-5434258-READY2.JPG
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Fluidampr with Eagle Crank Problem - 03/03/13 03:01 AM

Quote:

The timing gear does go against the crank (bottomed out), but with it in that position its about an 1" too far out to line up the pulleys



Are you saying the chain is not in line or that the
damper sticks out to far... if the cam lobes line up
with the lifters and the chain is straight then its
the damper.... as said already both the BB and SB fluid
units I have are 1 piece(might have to call them)
Posted By: VernMotor

Re: Fluidampr with Eagle Crank Problem - 03/03/13 03:15 AM

Are the small blocks and big blocks diff. a small block bolt is longer..I assume the stoud was too ?
Posted By: Mopar-Al

Re: Fluidampr with Eagle Crank Problem - 03/03/13 03:28 AM

Quote:

No part number.. here is a pic.. I would guess take an 1" off the snout it would work? but I don't know..




Wondering why there is 2 oil lip seal grooves on the hub? Is that hub a 6 bolt pulley system? A bb chevy is 3 for the most part, but has about the same ID diameter, just a few thou smaller.

With race season right on us, I sure hope you can get the 2 issues sorted out quick.
Posted By: rickraw

Re: Fluidampr with Eagle Crank Problem - 03/03/13 03:34 AM

the first mark is from the dust shield.
Posted By: Mopar-Al

Re: Fluidampr with Eagle Crank Problem - 03/03/13 03:40 AM

Quote:

the first mark is from the dust shield.



Dust shield? Is that the oil slinger that stays right up against the lower timing sprocket? I am having a hard time picturing what your saying for some reason
Posted By: Mopar-Al

Re: Fluidampr with Eagle Crank Problem - 03/03/13 03:46 AM

Mopar-Mike, did you mock this up all the way? What was the distance from the back edge of the balancer to the timing cover? 1/4 inch or 1 inch? 1/4 or a little less is about the correct depth. Even with my KB gear drive and Milodon Gear drive, the space is very small.
Posted By: rickraw

Re: Fluidampr with Eagle Crank Problem - 03/03/13 03:53 AM

the frt seal has a little seal lip in front of the oil seal. that's why there are 2 marks on the hub.
Posted By: Mopar_Mike

Re: Fluidampr with Eagle Crank Problem - 03/03/13 04:23 AM

Well here is what started the problem. As you can see the pulley does not line up at all. The post below is a pic of behind the damper, showing what I think, is it not going in deep enough. However, because of the hub length, it can't go in deeper because it is bottoming out on the crank.

Attached picture 7610776-IMGP2283.JPG
Posted By: Mopar_Mike

Re: Fluidampr with Eagle Crank Problem - 03/03/13 04:24 AM

Here is space behind the damper..

Attached picture 7610779-IMGP2281.JPG
Posted By: DusterDave

Re: Fluidampr with Eagle Crank Problem - 03/03/13 04:42 AM

That damper has certainly seen better days. Are you sure that is the right crank pulley?
Posted By: rickraw

Re: Fluidampr with Eagle Crank Problem - 03/03/13 04:48 AM

that's what i was thinking. there is a shorter stock pulley.
Posted By: Mopar_Mike

Re: Fluidampr with Eagle Crank Problem - 03/03/13 05:07 AM

yeah, thats a stock 440 pulley with PS. Here is the replacement billet I want to use.

Attached picture 7610825-IMGP2285.JPG
Posted By: 52savoy

Re: Fluidampr with Eagle Crank Problem - 03/03/13 05:49 AM

Quote:

yeah, thats a stock 440 pulley with PS. Here is the replacement billet I want to use.



ok...

A couple questions.
With the crank bolt out, is the balancer hole flush with the crank snout or show it can go more?

How thick is the Fluiddamper? It looks pretty wide in your picture. Like maybe a Hemi or BB chevy
P/N on the damper?

I've got a couple aftermarket cranks and the snouts are a little oversized. So I had to hone the balancers but sounds like you've got something else happening.
Posted By: Mopar-Al

Re: Fluidampr with Eagle Crank Problem - 03/03/13 07:34 AM

Quote:

Well here is what started the problem. As you can see the pulley does not line up at all. The post below is a pic of behind the damper, showing what I think, is it not going in deep enough. However, because of the hub length, it can't go in deeper because it is bottoming out on the crank.




Mike, If you are planning on running the stock pullies, you need the revised sunken fluid dampner. It will allow you to run the stock stuff.
Posted By: 440Jim

Re: Fluidampr with Eagle Crank Problem - 03/03/13 04:03 PM

Quote:

I see the snout on the Eagle crank is about 1.75" while a stock 440 crank is around 2.5".

I agree that old design Fluidamper doesn't allow the stock pullies to line up (no recess for the pulley).

I am wondering about your crank snout info.
Is the measurement in this pic what you are talking about?
1.767" plus the crank sprocket thickness of 0.78" = 2.55"?

Attached picture 7611181-Crank_snout_length.jpg
Posted By: 440Jim

Re: Fluidampr with Eagle Crank Problem - 03/03/13 04:16 PM

This pic might help you also.
It is the old style Fluiddamper, but it doesn't have the unboltable part you have. The measurement is from the damper face to the location on the timing cover where the bolt seats (removed bolt for measurement surface).

Attached picture 7611196-Damper_distance25a.jpg
Posted By: Dodgem

Re: Fluidampr with Eagle Crank Problem - 03/03/13 04:23 PM

That could well be a small block one they are much deeper/longer.
Posted By: mike s

Re: Fluidampr with Eagle Crank Problem - 03/03/13 05:12 PM

Damper looks be be for a 392 Hemi.
Posted By: HPMike

Re: Fluidampr with Eagle Crank Problem - 03/03/13 06:07 PM

If everything else is fine and all you need is a"shorter" pulley check Mike Doty's website.

http://www.dotymi.com/Automotive_Home.htm

I use the Doty pulley with the other stock pulleys and everything lines up perfectly. This is for ATI dampers though. The difference looks about the same, though so this could be your answer.

Here is one with a Doty crank pulley, stock w/p pulley.

EDIT: Looking at the pic you posted(side view) it looks like the pulley isnt seated far down enough. Is it the hub? I doubt there is anything wrong with the crankshaft...

Maybe its time to drop back and punt. Sell off that FD to someone else, get an ATI and a Doty pulley and you can use all your billet stuff. Problem solved..

MB

Attached picture 7611381-edmaxwedge(Medium).jpg
Posted By: Mopar_Mike

Re: Fluidampr with Eagle Crank Problem - 03/03/13 09:14 PM

Thanks everyone for your responses and help. I think I found the problem...

Don't use parts you know nothing about!

I am buying a new damper!
Posted By: Quicktree

Re: Fluidampr with Eagle Crank Problem - 03/03/13 09:20 PM

Quote:

Thanks everyone for your responses and help. I think I found the problem...

Don't use parts you know nothing about!

I am buying a new damper!


get yourself an ATI and forget about a fluid damper
Posted By: VernMotor

Re: Fluidampr with Eagle Crank Problem - 03/03/13 09:21 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Thanks everyone for your responses and help. I think I found the problem...

Don't use parts you know nothing about!

I am buying a new damper!


get yourself an ATI and forget about a fluid damper



Posted By: Performance Only

Re: Fluidampr with Eagle Crank Problem - 03/03/13 09:32 PM

That's definately the old style fluidamper. That thing has tobe pretty old because they haven't made them that way for a very long time now. I think someone was making pulley's that would work but don't remember who it was now. Google might help on that.
I know if it were something i was building, that damper would become a door stop inn favor of something newer that would also work with the pulley you already own.
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