? Sox and Martin tranny qeestion, "back in the day"

Posted By: 68LAR

? Sox and Martin tranny qeestion, "back in the day" - 02/03/13 03:32 PM

Looking to get some "real life" info here. I've read articals but the majority of them don't address the question as to:
1. What tranny did they use?
2. What modifications if any
3. What kind of maintenance was involved?
4. What tranny fluid was used?

Does anyone have any "real life", credible info on these four question? I'm not looking for opinions, just "fact" based info.
Thanks for any replies

Posted By: B G Racing

Re: ? Sox and Martin tranny qeestion, "back in the day" - 02/03/13 03:55 PM

Early trans were iron case 18 spline,modified to slick shift/crash box.
Later years were aluminium case slick shift/crash box.
At some point they tried Borg Warner T-10 or "rock crushers" since NHRA was letting offbrands use the aluminium Chrysler boxes.
The class progressed to any manual shifted transmissions,OEM or aftermarket.
The maintance on the slick shifted trans was tremendous,mandating carrying quite a few spares for a weekend of racing.The weak part was the imput shaft and the stress when 4th gear was use since every other tooth was machine off.This was true to all the other gears and the sliders but worst on the imput.
With the production of new "clutchless manual transmission" and the tech. today those trans mods back in the day dinosarous and should be left to the past unless your a Sox,McCandless,or Jenkins and have a big bankroll and love servicing a 4 speed constantly.
I got rid off all my 4-speed stuff and even buried some aluminium cases out"behind the Hogpen",Bring your metal detecter and a shovel and I'll point you in the right direction.

Posted By: 68LAR

Re: ? Sox and Martin tranny qeestion, "back in the day" - 02/03/13 04:05 PM

Quote:

I got rid off all my 4-speed stuff and even buried some aluminium cases out"behind the Hogpen",Bring your metal detecter and a shovel and I'll point you in the right direction.

Ha, Ha, No thanks. I'm content with what I have. I'm just looking for info. I did pick up an 18 spline, "full out" crash box last summer. It's totally different than the current "slick shifted" trannys. Different gears, sliders, etc. Real big "cogs" on the gears. None of the gears would interchange with a slick shifted unit.
Thanks for the info.

Posted By: HEMIFRED

Re: ? Sox and Martin tranny qeestion, "back in the day" - 02/03/13 04:48 PM

Quote:

At some point they tried Borg Warner T-10 or "rock crushers" since NHRA was letting offbrands use the aluminium Chrysler boxes.

I always thought that to be true until Ronnie told mne otherwise that they never used anything but 833's until lenco in late 72.
the lenco improved everyone's ET except Ronnie's

quote is from a magazine
http://www.hotrod.com/thehistoryof/hrdp_0402_the_end/viewall.html

Quote:

"I didn't like the Lenco thing too much," Ronnie recalls now, "because I felt it was taking some of my advantage away. In fact, I could run quicker with the four-speed than with the Lenco when they first came out. But Chrysler made us put it back in there because they were afraid NHRA would outlaw the Lencos. There were a lot of other racers who were missing shifts and tearing their cars up with the sticks, and Chrysler thought it would be better for a lot of the other racers if the Lencos were part of it. That was one reason they were trying to do it; it was easier on the cars. We had very little breakage; Jake (King) and Dave (Christie) and those guys kept our stuff in great shape."

Posted By: B G Racing

Re: ? Sox and Martin tranny qeestion, "back in the day" - 02/03/13 05:07 PM

Quote:

Quote:

At some point they tried Borg Warner T-10 or "rock crushers" since NHRA was letting offbrands use the aluminium Chrysler boxes.

I always thought that to be true until Ronnie told mne otherwise that they never used anything but 833's until lenco in late 72

Not questioning anyones word on anything but I recall Ronnie as well as few others that said they tried the BW and it wouldn't hold up.Anthony Christpher ran one in his Sox&Marten preped Cuda at PID for a short period also.You can get varied answers and opinions about what they did or didn't do 30+ years ago.I can only comment on what I saw.Ask how many AH cars are or were running a Chevy 12 bolt rearend today and see the

Posted By: 5126brl No more

Re: ? Sox and Martin tranny qeestion, "back in the day" - 02/03/13 05:08 PM

Can you post pics of the gears?
always curious about stuff from back then.
I had HPMike do my hemi box a few years ago with faceplated gears and i am very happy with it. Looking now to add a 2-step and try and make a few runs this year.

Posted By: mshred

Re: ? Sox and Martin tranny qeestion, "back in the day" - 02/03/13 05:13 PM

I always had a feeling that they were swapping out transmissions during a race weekend...there was another thread on here about a 1000hp SBM with a 4 speed, he might want to look in here

Posted By: slantzilla

Re: ? Sox and Martin tranny qeestion, "back in the day" - 02/03/13 05:59 PM

If you were breaking an 833, why in the world would you even consider a T-10? Those things wouldn't hold up in a Camaro on the street.

I had always heard they tried Toploaders. That would at least make some sense.

Posted By: 68LAR

Re: ? Sox and Martin tranny qeestion, "back in the day" - 02/03/13 06:48 PM

Quote:

Can you post pics of the gears?
always curious about stuff from back then.
I had HPMike do my hemi box a few years ago with faceplated gears and i am very happy with it. Looking now to add a 2-step and try and make a few runs this year.

Sorry,I don't have a camera. I'll see if my son can take some pic's the next time he's over.

Posted By: lorenr

Re: ? Sox and Martin tranny qeestion, "back in the day" - 02/03/13 10:14 PM

I purchased two A 833 transmissions from a known Pro Stock drag racer as they were switching to Lenco transmissions. The parts in the transmissions were all over the board. There were red stripe transmissions, but I never had one. These were 18 spline with the good input shaft but one was a 308 bearing while the other was a 307 bearing. I think they were both 2.66 first gear. One had Doug Nash sliders and welded dog teeth, the other had similar parts but was a Liberty, both worked very well in a 9500 RPM small block W2.

Heard that they were not so good in a Hemi with a 2800 pound clutch. 1600 pound clutch and they would be fine. Today, I'd use GM synchromesh fluid, much better than anything we had then, although fluid never seemed to be the issue.

No one used the aluminum case for long. The main shaft wanted to push away from the counter shaft and the aluminum was not good at preventing that. The aluminum tail shaft was a good idea, but are quite rare now.

Posted By: mloboda

Re: ? Sox and Martin tranny qeestion, "back in the day" - 02/03/13 10:19 PM

I thought they used powerglides.

Posted By: 52savoy

Re: ? Sox and Martin tranny qeestion, "back in the day" - 02/03/13 10:44 PM

Quote:

Ask how many AH cars are or were running a Chevy 12 bolt rearend today and see the

I remember 12 bolt GM rear ends in lower class super/stock Hemi cars

It had me

Posted By: RoadRunnerJD

Re: ? Sox and Martin tranny qeestion, "back in the day" - 02/03/13 10:49 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I got rid off all my 4-speed stuff and even buried some aluminium cases out"behind the Hogpen",Bring your metal detecter and a shovel and I'll point you in the right direction.

Ha, Ha, No thanks. I'm content with what I have. I'm just looking for info. I did pick up an 18 spline, "full out" crash box last summer. It's totally different than the current "slick shifted" trannys. Different gears, sliders, etc. Real big "cogs" on the gears. None of the gears would interchange with a slick shifted unit.
Thanks for the info.

The bigger splines sound similar to an old Doug Nash "Pro-shifted" Hemi 4-speed I used to run. The slick shifted sliders have every other tooth milled off. The Pro shifted have two out of three teeth milled out and the pro-shifted collars on the gears are the Doug Nash high strength nickel alloy parts with the wider teeth. It was a little more durable than the teeth on a stock collar. I heard from an old pro-stock racer who knew Ronnie Sox that Sox used to run a slick shifted 3.09 first gear ratio 23 spline trans. I guess eventually higher strength parts were developed...

Posted By: HOTMOPR

Re: ? Sox and Martin tranny qeestion, "back in the day" - 02/05/13 03:43 AM

I read that they used automatic trans fluid for less drag.

Posted By: mopar_to_ya

Re: ? Sox and Martin tranny qeestion, "back in the day" - 02/05/13 03:48 AM

If you are interested in a slick shift trans
Larry, I can hook you up, lol.
Let me know

Posted By: reknapp52

Re: ? Sox and Martin tranny qeestion, "back in the day" - 02/05/13 06:04 AM

Some 4-speeds came from the factory with ATF in them--My 73 340 Cuda did.

Attached picture 7575992-LebaronatTexasLODRS.jpg

Posted By: HEMIFRED

Re: ? Sox and Martin tranny qeestion, "back in the day" - 02/05/13 12:58 PM

Quote:

Some 4-speeds came from the factory with ATF in them--My 73 340 Cuda did.

common with cars built for customers in colder climates

Posted By: 68LAR

Re: ? Sox and Martin tranny qeestion, "back in the day" - 02/05/13 03:56 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I got rid off all my 4-speed stuff and even buried some aluminium cases out"behind the Hogpen",Bring your metal detecter and a shovel and I'll point you in the right direction.

Ha, Ha, No thanks. I'm content with what I have. I'm just looking for info. I did pick up an 18 spline, "full out" crash box last summer. It's totally different than the current "slick shifted" trannys. Different gears, sliders, etc. Real big "cogs" on the gears. None of the gears would interchange with a slick shifted unit.
Thanks for the info.

The bigger splines sound similar to an old Doug Nash "Pro-shifted" Hemi 4-speed I used to run. The slick shifted sliders have every other tooth milled off. The Pro shifted have two out of three teeth milled out and the pro-shifted collars on the gears are the Doug Nash high strength nickel alloy parts with the wider teeth. It was a little more durable than the teeth on a stock collar. I heard from an old pro-stock racer who knew Ronnie Sox that Sox used to run a slick shifted 3.09 first gear ratio 23 spline trans. I guess eventually higher strength parts were developed...

I went to the Liberty web site and it appears that the gears in my trans match the pro-shifted gears that Liberty has displayed. So I'm guessing my tranny is a Liberty pro-shifted transmission.

Posted By: 68 HEMI GTS

Re: ? Sox and Martin tranny qeestion, "back in the day" - 02/05/13 08:29 PM

usually if Libertys has worked on them they have a stamp on each ring. maybe the old stuff doesn't, cant remember for sure.

Posted By: 68LAR

Re: ? Sox and Martin tranny qeestion, "back in the day" - 02/05/13 10:34 PM

I haven't looked at it that close, yet. But the gears look like those you show and the side cover has welded on shift arms. There is one for sale on "E" bag right now that matches exactly what I have.