Just for the Record on Herb McCandless

Posted By: tboomer

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 10/12/12 02:18 PM

Well???? Everyone is waiting!!

Posted By: J_BODY

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 10/12/12 02:32 PM

Quote:

Well???? Everyone is waiting!!

Maybe I won't go to work today so I can monitor this post and find out!!!! OOOOOHHHHHHH I'm so excited!!!

Posted By: turbobitt

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 10/12/12 02:48 PM

This sounds like a game,

Let me guess, someone is trying to recreate the car for personal gain...

Allan G.

Posted By: BloFish

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 10/12/12 10:52 PM

Zzzzzzzz

Posted By: DCM71cuda

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 10/14/12 04:32 PM

Things are not always what they seem.

Posted By: HEMIFRED

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 10/14/12 04:50 PM

Quote:

Things are not always what they seem.

Totally creative writing and fact manipuation

a;ll the claims are total fantasy and creative writing. Buddy , Herb and Dave Christy all deny any 71 Duster being built as well as Chick DeNinno telling me he is misquoted about Herb driolling holes. Most all the pictures he used are of my car. nothing he shows indicates for examples comes close to a S&M built car. A&A fiberglass scoops were on everyone's caras was he narropw bumper No Moroso tachs were ever used on factory cars .S&M and everyone else used S&W tach and gagues only.the sidebar of the roll cage is wrong and the sloppy welding of the tail light panel did is not the quailty of any pro builder.

Posted By: BloFish

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 10/14/12 05:04 PM

Quote:

Herb McCandless Never Raced a 71 Duster for Buddy Martin. You will figure out why I put this on here later.

What say you...

Posted By: RUNCHARGER

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 10/14/12 05:25 PM

Interesting fabrication. It's cool how they chose their "experts" when there are true experts available.

Sheldon

Posted By: Steve1118

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 10/14/12 05:54 PM

Thanks for getting ahead on this, Herb.

Just as a side, that old 477 we got off you a few years back is still in Kevin's 71 Satellite, going 12.0's all the time. The motor is reliable, low, low maintenence, and constistent. It's a winner!! You guys did a good job....just thought I'd let you know.

Posted By: topside

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 10/14/12 08:58 PM

Well, the "1971 Duster" photo referenced in that online article is wearing '72 tail lamps & rear body panel...this is all as clear as mud...

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 10/14/12 09:19 PM

I guess the OP doesnt want to say what all this BS
is all about

Posted By: slippery440

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 10/14/12 10:04 PM

Iam wondering who gives a crap? I sure don't.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 10/14/12 10:12 PM

I will take it!!!!
Give me a price!!!

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 10/14/12 10:13 PM

Oh boy I am gonna be rich! Just as soon as I buy this car!!

Posted By: B5 Bee

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 10/14/12 10:26 PM

Who is Dino Powell?

Posted By: HEMIFRED

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 10/14/12 10:39 PM

Quote:

Iam wondering who gives a crap? I sure don't.

understandable.
since you do not have phoney statements credited to your name or pictures misrepresenting your car.
If they were would be singing a different tune?
Then are people with no connection who give a crap because just don't like scams period.

Posted By: SKR8PN

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 10/15/12 01:03 AM

...is it perhaps possible....that this cars existence could/would devalue the other S&M cars out there??
Perhaps that's why all the "stuff" about it not being a "real" S&M car????
Inquiring minds want to know the truth....
Throw it out there for ALL to see and let the MASSES figure out who's on first, What's on second.....

Posted By: DCM71cuda

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 10/15/12 01:09 AM

Quote:

I guess the OP doesnt want to say what all this BS
is all about

What this is "all about" is a potential scam. When items are mis-represented to give an inflated value, it hurts the entire hobby. I see no value in getting random people to "authenticate" a car, when it would be easy enough to get the people directly involved to do so. I don't think anyone could accuse Herb of not wanting to talk or help out in such a situation. He is probably one the most accessible individuals in the Mopar world, and would have been involved in the construction of the car. Yet he was not consulted on this. That in itself should raise a red-flag.

David McCandless

Posted By: slippery440

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 10/15/12 02:56 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Iam wondering who gives a crap? I sure don't.

understandable.
since you do not have phoney statements credited to your name or pictures misrepresenting your car.
If they were would be singing a different tune?
Then are people with no connection who give a crap because just don't like scams period.

AND This is race related how? Just someone trying to steal from a dead racer LIKE EVERYONE THAT OWNS CARS DRIVEN BY FAMOUS RACERS.

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 10/15/12 02:57 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I guess the OP doesnt want to say what all this BS
is all about

What this is "all about" is a potential scam. When items are mis-represented to give an inflated value, it hurts the entire hobby. I see no value in getting random people to "authenticate" a car, when it would be easy enough to get the people directly involved to do so. I don't think anyone could accuse Herb of not wanting to talk or help out in such a situation. He is probably one the most accessible individuals in the Mopar world, and would have been involved in the construction of the car. Yet he was not consulted on this. That in itself should raise a red-flag.

David McCandless

So who is selling a car... never seen anything mentioned
in this post

Posted By: Steve1118

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 10/15/12 03:32 AM

David, thanks to you and your brother for getting ahead on this. You are indeed right about your dad being accessible, he's never met anyone he didn't know. Great guy.

Whether it is a for profit scam or not, makes no difference to me. It's not the truth, and someone is attributing things that aren't factual for whatever reason. Ego, money, doesn't matter. Truth is truth.

Posted By: tallzag

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 10/15/12 04:40 AM

All fakes become real over time, that is the real problem. In the vintage race car field (specifically old NASCAR chassis') so many fakes are out there that it has hurt the overall value of the real cars. A lot of people have gotten burned and they don't forget that.

Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 10/15/12 04:42 PM

Ok, so based on what some have posted here there is some bad info in that write up. So, does anyone know the real history on that car?

Posted By: B5 Bee

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 10/15/12 05:39 PM

Quote:

Ok, so based on what some have posted here there is some bad info in that write up. So, does anyone know the real history on that car?

The story was it was a S&M race car in '71, then sold to Reid Whisnant for the '72 season. Reid had a '71 built for him by S&M for '71, then had a new '72 built by Atlanta Race Cars for '72.

Look at the the side bars in the pics. There is one that runs high from the main hoop and down, right by the drivers head. This was the way Ron Bulter built his cars. Old pics of S&M and Whisnant cars don't have this high bar. The seller claims that Gary Hansen said it's not a Butler but it sure looks like one. Besides, Bulter was on the west coast where the car was found just makes it look more like a Butler. I wonder if they ever did talk to Hansen. The whole story is fishy, why talk to 2 former fuel racers (Big and Snake) about a PS car?

Just who is Dino Powell, the person that 'authenicated' the car?

Posted By: Race&Resto

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 10/15/12 06:58 PM

Has anyone bothered to sand any of the old paint off this thing, it sure would clear up a lot of speculation about it.

Posted By: B5 Bee

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 10/15/12 07:06 PM

Quote:

Has anyone bothered to sand any of the old paint off this thing, it sure would clear up a lot of speculation about it.

From the text;

"Part 5
The Car Speaks for Itself
As a key part of the discovery process, Dino Powell got permission from the current owner to sand down the paint on the car. Old paint doesn't lie. Coat by coat, like turning the pages of a book, each layer of paint confirmed an era of the cars history. The 2nd to the bottom layer was a very unusual paint scheme, a bright gold and brown reflecting the colors of Reid Whisnant, the car's 2nd owner. The next layer clearly revealed the car's original owners... and the colors were... red, white, and blue... the insignia of Ronnie Sox & Buddy Martin. It was simple."

No pics of the sanded down paint are shown.

Posted By: Hemi Allstate

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 10/15/12 07:41 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Has anyone bothered to sand any of the old paint off this thing, it sure would clear up a lot of speculation about it.

From the text;

"Part 5
The Car Speaks for Itself
As a key part of the discovery process, Dino Powell got permission from the current owner to sand down the paint on the car. Old paint doesn't lie. Coat by coat, like turning the pages of a book, each layer of paint confirmed an era of the cars history. The 2nd to the bottom layer was a very unusual paint scheme, a bright gold and brown reflecting the colors of Reid Whisnant, the car's 2nd owner. The next layer clearly revealed the car's original owners... and the colors were... red, white, and blue... the insignia of Ronnie Sox & Buddy Martin. It was simple."

No pics of the sanded down paint are shown.

Sanded roof picture.
http://www.found-sm-duster.com/part5.html

Posted By: DCM71cuda

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 10/15/12 11:12 PM

I wonder why someone would retrofit a car with drum brakes??

Posted By: SSDAcuda

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 10/16/12 01:11 AM

B5- thanks for the link about the car.

Very interesting story - I never knew Gary Hansen worked with Ron Butler. Explains alot.

Posted By: Spaceman Spiff

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 10/16/12 01:15 AM

so who exactly, were the "experts" that looked at, and confirmed the car?
My guess is no one related to the car it self.

Posted By: OUTLAWSSAA

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 10/16/12 02:47 AM

I thought you guys might be interested in this. Its from this month's Hemmings.

Posted By: HEMIFRED

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 10/16/12 05:50 AM

it is bogus .Herb, Buddy and Chick DeNinno all agree to that .He used my pics of my car which is in the 72 form.
maybe this email sent to me by Dave Christie will find it's way to him

Quote:

I got an e-mail Saturday am about this with the pictures

I am not aware of Reid Whisnant ever buying a car from S&M other than the cars built for him in the shop

The 3 dusters are all accounted for

A photo in the article shows drum brakes on the front

Those cars all had the S&M front disc/aluminum hub kit with Airheart single piston calipers

First car started out with brakes from a 68 Barracuda factory SS (Kelsey Hays iron calipers and rotors-4.5 bolt circle) but was later changed when the new kits were made.
Someone from Portland Oregon called me a month ago and asked me about S&M Dusters and I assured him they were all accounted for. We talked about the cars and I asked him about the brakes, he said they were drums and I told him we never had drums on the front of A-bodies.
After that he didn�t want to talk any more

I�ve heard this for years now, people call or send you letters and photos and they will not listen to any thing that doesn�t fit their present situation.

They all have the �Milion Dollar Car� Dave

Posted By: HEMIFRED

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 10/16/12 05:53 AM

Quote:

I thought you guys might be interested in this. Its from this month's Hemmings.

suddenly it's now a 70 ????

Posted By: jamesc

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 10/16/12 06:00 AM

so Fred what's with all the cloak and dagger? i would expect you to know pretty much the fate of all their cars why not just spell it out. i would think if this isn't a true car there are enough people aware and still around that it's going to be known.

give us the rundown

Posted By: HEMIFRED

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 10/16/12 06:09 AM

Quote:

so Fred what's with all the cloak and dagger? i would expect you to know pretty much the fate of all their cars why not just spell it out. i would think if this isn't a true car there are enough people aware and still around that it's going to be known.

give us the rundown

I CAN TELL YOU IT'S 100% TOTAL BULL.
But my word means little when compared to
Buddy, Herb and Dave C. all will tell there were only 3 Dusters, the 70 which was destroyed in a wreck, my car, the former Don Grother , Hardy built tube frame.

Posted By: RV2

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 10/16/12 12:25 PM

"I CAN TELL YOU IT'S 100% TOTAL BULL.
But my word means little when compared to
Buddy, Herb and Dave C. all will tell there were only 3 Dusters, the 70 which was destroyed in a wreck, my car, the former Don Grother , Hardy

So the 70 duster never got a grille change?

Posted By: hemiparts

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 10/16/12 04:23 PM

Guess i know what the Hot Topic of conversation will be in Henderson this year....

Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 10/17/12 12:04 AM

Ok, so let's just comclude for a minute that it's NOT an original S&M car. It's obviously an ancient build, does anyone here know it's true history? Could it have been some other well known drivers car?

Does anyone have a complete list of ALL of the S&M, Landy, McCandles, Hamburger, Groether, etc. cars (Hemis or otherwise?)

Posted By: DCM71cuda

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 10/17/12 01:58 AM

I am posting this at the request of Buddy Martin as a direct quote:

"We did not build a 1971 Duster for Ronnie or Herb. We never sold Reid Whisnant a red, white and blue Duster, nor a red, white and blue Dodge truck"

Posted By: HEMIFRED

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 10/17/12 02:46 AM

Quote:

Ok, so let's just comclude for a minute that it's NOT an original S&M car. It's obviously an ancient build, does anyone here know it's true history? Could it have been some other well known drivers car?

Does anyone have a complete list of ALL of the S&M, Landy, McCandles, Hamburger, Groether, etc. cars (Hemis or otherwise?)

to begin with there's no indication it was ever a pro stock car it might have been a pro stock car. the PRO lettered on the window might have been for the bracket designation mistaken as pro stock

Posted By: RV2

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 10/17/12 03:16 AM

This is the car I'm referring to

Attached picture 7424009-image.jpg

Posted By: RV2

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 10/17/12 03:23 AM

Which Hemi Fred corrected me but I thought this was the same car

Attached picture 7424021-image.jpg

Posted By: 383man

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 10/17/12 05:26 AM

Quote:

Which Hemi Fred corrected me but I thought this was the same car

RV2 I have that same book on the 1970 Pro Stock season. All I can tell you is yes mini skirts were definetly in style in 1970 !

Ron

Posted By: cudaman1969

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 10/18/12 02:40 PM

What year did Ronny quite match racing a Duster? I remember him racing at Colonial Beach Va.(long field). Some time in the mid 70s? The car had a 4-link and he was adjusting it for the track. Can't remember who he raced against that day.

Posted By: HMcCandless_Jr

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 10/18/12 05:48 PM

Please show me one picture of a Sox and Martin car that had a Red Roof!!!! If someone can do that Ill buy the sanded paint otherwise I think Herb McCandless, Buddy Martin, Dave Christie, and Chic Denino, all SOX and Martin owners or shop employees have confirmed it is not a Sox and Martin shop built or team car. The workmanship is terrible, my 13 year old son could do a better job.

Herb Jr

I do have a picture of a Sox and Martin car with a Yellow Roof.

Posted By: sixpakdodge

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 10/19/12 01:05 AM

We did forget to mention this Duster of Ronnie's. This car is accounted for though, and not the one being misrepresented in the website.

Attached picture 7426467-ronniesoxNODECALS.jpg

Attached picture 7426467-ronniesoxNODECALS.jpg

Posted By: moparjoe360.4

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 10/19/12 02:22 AM

I saw that car at the Mopar Nats this year it was by the time slip shack. I agree it's not a Sox car,( I 'm also no expert) but the sanded paint did not show Sox colors.

Posted By: cudaman1969

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 10/19/12 06:05 AM

Quote:

We did forget to mention this Duster of Ronnie's. This car is accounted for though, and not the one being misrepresented in the website. [/quote

I sure this is the one i saw, it only has Soxs name on the door. What year was this race?

Posted By: Race&Resto

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 10/19/12 07:30 AM

Quote:

Please show me one picture of a Sox and Martin car that had a Red Roof!!!! If someone can do that Ill buy the sanded paint otherwise I think Herb McCandless, Buddy Martin, Dave Christie, and Chic Denino, all SOX and Martin owners or shop employees have confirmed it is not a Sox and Martin shop built or team car. The workmanship is terrible, my 13 year old son could do a better job.

Herb Jr

I do have a picture of a Sox and Martin car with a Yellow Roof.

At first I thought it might be the old Shay Nichols Dodge that was a muti-colored car, and I guess no one remembers this red Sox & Martin Plymouth that was printed on those old Fleer drag cards, and if it turns out to be this car I charge a finders fee.

Posted By: julian2007

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 10/19/12 01:05 PM

wgas

Posted By: sixpakdodge

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 10/20/12 01:45 AM

Quote:

At first I thought it might be the old Shay Nichols Dodge that was a muti-colored car, and I guess no one remembers this red Sox & Martin Plymouth that was printed on those old Fleer drag cards, and if it turns out to be this car I charge a finders fee.

That's HemiFred's car.

Posted By: robnbird

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 10/20/12 02:39 AM

Quote:

Herb McCandless Never Raced a 71 Duster for Buddy Martin. You will figure out why I put this on here later.

If this were solid red with a white sticker on the 1/4 that said footbrakeracing.com what would you say???/

Posted By: Dart1031

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 10/20/12 01:00 PM

I'm no expert on these cars either, but.....

Didn't these cars have modified A-pillars and roofs?

It says in the article that the original windshield was broken when removing it(current owner). And it was replaced with a factory original style one. How would a "factory" one fit?!

Posted By: B5 Bee

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 10/20/12 03:04 PM

If the fake S&M car was really a Pro Stocker and someone wants to ID it, look at the west car cars built by Ron Butler. Ron put in high side bars as on this '71 Butch Leal Duster (with a partially red roof).

Posted By: cudaman1969

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 10/20/12 03:13 PM

Neat hauler of Landy

Posted By: B5 Bee

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 10/20/12 03:21 PM

Although not a west coast car, here's another well known Butler build. It has the high sidebar like the one shown in part 5 of the link to the faker.

Posted By: BloFish

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 10/21/12 04:28 AM

Quote:

Neat hauler of Landy

Posted By: HMcCandless_Jr

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 10/23/12 10:15 PM

I would still say Herb McCandless Never Drove it. Because He DIDNT.

Posted By: streetking

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 08/21/13 09:09 PM

Here is the REAL Reid Whisnant Pro Stock Duster
I'm trying to dig it out of storage and take it to the all Hemi reunion in Ohio this weekend, anyone wanting to verify it can come on over and crawl all over it or in it

Attached picture 7822681-IMG_20130820_204428.jpg

Attached picture 7822681-IMG_20130820_204428.jpg

Posted By: streetking

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 08/26/13 05:56 AM

Out for a bath.

Attached picture 7827683-IMG_20130822_224612.jpg

Posted By: streetking

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 08/26/13 06:01 AM

Things that make you go, HMMMMM!

Attached picture 7827685-IMG_20130822_224758.jpg

Posted By: Stanton

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 08/26/13 04:06 PM

Like "hmmmm, why can't the poster load that photo the right way" ?!?!?!

Posted By: HMcCandless_Jr

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 08/27/13 06:27 PM

This is the Reid car, the red one, Dino Powell has lied to everyone trying to fabricate this story.

Posted By: sixpakx

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 08/28/13 12:38 AM

Quote:

Things that make you go, HMMMMM!

bigger wheelies this way

Posted By: sixpakx

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 08/28/13 12:46 AM

Dino Powell,s windy than a sack full of farts, I saw the duster at the nats last yr, he was trying to tell me Fred,s was fake and they had already been offered 1 million for the car. since he,s sent the car back to it,s owner

Posted By: Chris'sBarracuda

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 08/28/13 01:06 AM

Chris..

Attached picture 7829901-ReidWisnant.jpg

Posted By: HMcCandless_Jr

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 08/28/13 02:49 AM

Come to the McCandless Mopar Classic, there will be Sox and Martin employees there, Herb, Dave Christie, if you want something verified be there Sept 15.

Posted By: robnbird

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 08/28/13 02:59 AM

Quote:

Herb McCandless Never Raced a 71 Duster for Buddy Martin. You will figure out why I put this on here later.

I agree about the duster..

but he did do the sheetmetal work in this ole 68 satellite and you drove this car it was all red in those days. What do you think?

Posted By: robnbird

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 08/28/13 03:25 AM

Quote:

Come to the McCandless Mopar Classic, there will be Sox and Martin employees there, Herb, Dave Christie, if you want something verified be there Sept 15.

where is that going to be??? Im going to bring this ole 68 ...

Attached picture 7830159-P1070201.JPG

Posted By: HMcCandless_Jr

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 08/28/13 05:58 AM

That is not true, Herb did not do the sheet metal work in that car, he built the Dana 60, and maybe some trunk floor pan work but nothing in the interior. I drove the car to a win at a Mopar day in 06 at Piedmont Dragway.

Posted By: robnbird

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 08/28/13 08:55 PM

Quote:

That is not true, Herb did not do the sheet metal work in that car, he built the Dana 60, and maybe some trunk floor pan work but nothing in the interior. I drove the car to a win at a Mopar day in 06 at Piedmont Dragway.

OK thanks glad to know that . who ever did the tubs, and sheetmetal was very good. I will try to make the McC deal on the 15th Rob

Posted By: fullmetaljacket

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 08/30/13 01:20 AM

Didn't Ronnie Sox have a younger Brother that raced a 71 Duster or so?
Maybe Herb got in that car for a few rounds back in the day and every one thought that He was actually campaigning a 71'

Posted By: HMcCandless_Jr

Re: Just for the Record on Herb McCandless - 09/20/13 05:00 AM

David did race a Duster but it was crashed at Farmington dragway and totaled. Again Sox and Martin never had a 71 Duster Race Team Car, Herbs 70 car was updated to 71 Trim for the World Finals, but it was destroyed in a towing accident coming home from the race.

Just for the Record on Herb McCandless