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Ideas for testing,please

Posted By: Dunnuck Racing

Ideas for testing,please - 09/12/12 07:49 PM

I am looking for some ideas from some of my fellow gearheads.
I am working on putting together one o two dyno mules for testing various ideas.
Most of the posts around here tend to lean toward how much power something makes and/or happy dyno numbers.
I want ideas on what you guys would like to see. Would you be interested in testing that may help your car be more consistent? Or are big numbers all anybody wants to see?
I have several ideas aimed at making a more consistent package I want to try.
If you have some things you would like to see tested,please let me know. If you are willing to share them on here,great. You can also p.m. or email if you either don't want something in public,or are embarrassed to ask. I an good at keeping secrets if need be.
I am not looking to to steal any secrets,or make money off anybody. I just want to try some new or unconventional ideas that may lhad to some good things for everybody.
Keith
Posted By: tboomer

Re: Ideas for testing,please - 09/12/12 07:52 PM

Keith...I loved your ignition testing..Sorry!! That is all!!
Posted By: DblOJoe

Re: Ideas for testing,please - 09/12/12 08:40 PM

For me consistency is what I want to focus on.
Posted By: RAMM

Re: Ideas for testing,please - 09/12/12 08:51 PM

I would like to see some sort of Fuel mileage/consumption standard for engine dynos agreed upon. Some sort of load vs power vs time type of arrangement. J.Rob
Posted By: sr4440

Re: Ideas for testing,please - 09/12/12 10:06 PM

Quote:

I would like to see some sort of Fuel mileage/consumption standard for engine dynos agreed upon. Some sort of load vs power vs time type of arrangement. J.Rob



you mean like BSFC?

It is the rate of fuel consumption divided by the power produced.

Joe
Posted By: hudsonhornet7x

Re: Ideas for testing,please - 09/12/12 10:23 PM

I would like to see a large bore, short stroke engine vs. a similar size smaller bore/ longer stroke setup.

I was always told that a large bore short stroke engine would surprise alot of people.
Posted By: Dunnuck Racing

Re: Ideas for testing,please - 09/13/12 02:56 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I would like to see some sort of Fuel mileage/consumption standard for engine dynos agreed upon. Some sort of load vs power vs time type of arrangement. J.Rob



you mean like BSFC?

It is the rate of fuel consumption divided by the power produced.

Joe


I think what J Rob is referring to is more for fuel efficiency testing. I tried figuring a good way to test my big block fuel mileage while towing while it was on the dyno.
My biggest issue was knowing how far the throttle should be open for the test.
I made several part throttle tuning pulls,but figuring mileage for something that pulls a heavy trailer is difficult.
For comparing my engine/dyno to someone else's would be harder to do with fuel flow meter differences,in my opinion.
Keith
Posted By: Winchester 73

Re: Ideas for testing,please - 09/13/12 04:14 AM

Quote:

I would like to see a large bore, short stroke engine vs. a similar size smaller bore/ longer stroke setup.

I was always told that a large bore short stroke engine would surprise alot of people.



this has been done by a magazine a few years back -both motors ran the same within 1 hp
Posted By: Winchester 73

Re: Ideas for testing,please - 09/13/12 04:24 AM

it seems to me a lot of peaple get stuck iether not having budget for both good heads and roller valvetrain-witch is better?

heres a good one-how much is internal lbs really worth?will a lighter stock cast crank make more hpthan a heavier forged one?
Posted By: Dunnuck Racing

Re: Ideas for testing,please - 09/13/12 04:37 AM

Quote:

it seems to me a lot of peaple get stuck iether not having budget for both good heads and roller valvetrain-witch is better?

heres a good one-how much is internal lbs really worth?will a lighter stock cast crank make more hpthan a heavier forged one?


I have wondered some of this myself. I know some guys do some extensive lightening for the gains it may get them.
On the heads vs roller valvetrain,I think a lot of people would be surprised how little extra power they get with a roller can over a good flat tappet design. Until you get into more exotic engine and head designs,I think its minimal.
Might make for a good comparison test.
Keith
Posted By: Triple Threat

Re: Ideas for testing,please - 09/13/12 05:27 AM

I too think a bob weight test would be cool.

might be tough to do without changing other variables though, piston design, rod length etc.
Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: Ideas for testing,please - 09/13/12 05:41 AM

Quote:

it seems to me a lot of peaple get stuck iether not having budget for both good heads and roller valvetrain-witch is better?

heres a good one-how much is internal lbs really worth?will a lighter stock cast crank make more hpthan a heavier forged one?

In a drag car,the motor would rev quicker and there fore would be getting to the stripe faster.............
Posted By: forphorty

Re: Ideas for testing,please - 09/13/12 06:08 AM

Heres a cheap one: making changes in oil pressure. Would be easy with a big block.
Posted By: rebel

Re: Ideas for testing,please - 09/13/12 06:57 AM

how about the difference a cam centerline has on peak power?
Posted By: RAMM

Re: Ideas for testing,please - 09/13/12 12:06 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I would like to see some sort of Fuel mileage/consumption standard for engine dynos agreed upon. Some sort of load vs power vs time type of arrangement. J.Rob



you mean like BSFC?

It is the rate of fuel consumption divided by the power produced.

Joe


I think what J Rob is referring to is more for fuel efficiency testing. I tried figuring a good way to test my big block fuel mileage while towing while it was on the dyno.
My biggest issue was knowing how far the throttle should be open for the test.
I made several part throttle tuning pulls,but figuring mileage for something that pulls a heavy trailer is difficult.
For comparing my engine/dyno to someone else's would be harder to do with fuel flow meter differences,in my opinion.
Keith



Yup that's what I'm referring to--MPG. Yes again on the throttle opening--I wish there was an agreed upon LOAD setting that could be used. All we would really need then to get around the fuel turbine variance is to time how long it takes to burn through say a 5 gallon pail. I know this test won't be popular--But I'm weird that way sometimes, I wanna know these things. J.Rob
Posted By: Crizila

Re: Ideas for testing,please - 09/14/12 12:29 AM

Not too much is ever said about flow consistancy between ports. I know the factory heads can be pretty bad some times. Port to port consistancy improvements comparing CNC ported heads verses hand ported heads would be interesting. Also how about running some HP numbers at different engine operating temps, Synthetic verses petrolium based oils, roller verses flat tappet cams.
Posted By: Triple Threat

Re: Ideas for testing,please - 09/14/12 12:43 AM

Quote:

Heres a cheap one: making changes in oil pressure. Would be easy with a big block.



I like this one too, If i was closer I would volunteer my engine for the test, Standard pump vs HV pump.

Maybe even an oil weight comparison.
Posted By: emarine01

Re: Ideas for testing,please - 09/14/12 12:49 AM

Well alrighty then, you asked.... Small block stroker builds for the highest longest torque curves using common off the shelf parts... nothing real high dollar or hi tech....Save the high HP#s for the lite go fast guys, build some torque monsters foolin with comp ratios , cams, intakes & exhaust
Posted By: Dunnuck Racing

Re: Ideas for testing,please - 09/14/12 12:59 AM

I am getting some good ideas,and really appreciate them.
It has been suggested to me by a friend that you guys should p.m. or email ideas to me instead though.
I have no problem sharing information,but sometimes things are beyond one persons control.
Thanks again
Keith
Posted By: super451b

Re: Ideas for testing,please - 09/14/12 01:36 AM

I've heard that over carburetted engines are more consistent than an engine that has just enough or slightly too small of a carb when the atmospheric conditions change , but I've never seen any data to back it up.
Posted By: b1dartsport

Re: Ideas for testing,please - 09/14/12 04:03 AM

How about a test of the largest 4150 carbs dialed in versus a 1050 dominator carb dialed in on a healthy BB or SB bracket combo. Test for both consistancy and power advantage. I have a small block stroker combo I'm just getting back together and everybody is telling me a domy would work better than the annular race demon 4150 that ran very well on my last setup. The manifold carb adapters vs using the correct manifold could also be tested.
Posted By: Sport440

Re: Ideas for testing,please - 09/14/12 05:15 AM

Quote:

I am getting some good ideas,and really appreciate them.
It has been suggested to me by a friend that you guys should p.m. or email ideas to me instead though.
I have no problem sharing information,but sometimes things are beyond one persons control.
Thanks again
Keith

Posted By: Dunnuck Racing

Re: Ideas for testing,please - 09/14/12 05:30 AM


Keith




Sorry,probably didn't make much sense the way I stated it.
A lot of these ideas( the easy and least expensive) I will work on while I have down time and share on here.
Since I started writing articles,the ideas I would need to invest a serious amount of time and money into would probably better be made into articles..
I was informed of some unscrupulous guys running off with some ideas if shared on a public forum.

Keith
Posted By: Just-a-dart

Re: Ideas for testing,please - 09/14/12 06:09 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Heres a cheap one: making changes in oil pressure. Would be easy with a big block.



I like this one too, If i was closer I would volunteer my engine for the test, Standard pump vs HV pump.

Maybe even an oil weight comparison.



I'm with you guys on this one. I would like to see the results.
Posted By: RAMM

Re: Ideas for testing,please - 09/14/12 12:03 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Heres a cheap one: making changes in oil pressure. Would be easy with a big block.



I like this one too, If i was closer I would volunteer my engine for the test, Standard pump vs HV pump.

Maybe even an oil weight comparison.



I'm with you guys on this one. I would like to see the results.



Conditions would have to be monitored VERY closely for tests like this. I doubt it would be easily measured and quantified. J.Rob
Posted By: HotRodDave

Re: Ideas for testing,please - 09/29/12 07:40 PM

I think an awesome standard for testing MPG would be to see how much fuel is consumed in 1 minte at a given HP value like 100 hp. Adjust the throttle to put out 100 HP at say 2000 rpm then see how much fuel is flowing. Most vehicles can maintain a steady speed at 50-100 hp or a lot less even for some more aerodynamic cars or slower speeds. Any how I think 100HP@2000 RPM should be the standard for MPG testing, then gallons per minute consumed will be the measure
Posted By: BigBlockMopar

Re: Ideas for testing,please - 10/29/12 03:08 PM

Another vote for different oil-weight powergain/loss-measurements here!

Would be one of the easiest things to test IMO.
Do a dyno-run, change the oil, run again, aso.
Posted By: emarine01

Re: Ideas for testing,please - 10/29/12 04:16 PM

Ok its me again Kieth.... Roller cams and valve springs, It would be cool to see the curves from different lobes and centers also advance & retard, for a givin compression moving the duration around ect... We<Moparts people> may be able to ship ya some spare grinds to test
Posted By: BradH

Re: Ideas for testing,please - 10/29/12 06:17 PM

Quote:

Standard pump vs HV pump.

Maybe even an oil weight comparison.



You can read this one for now: http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/ccrp_0911_small_block_chevy_oil_pumps/viewall.html
Posted By: sshemi

Re: Ideas for testing,please - 10/29/12 08:51 PM

Mechanical vs electric waterpump.
Dyno water temp vs normal water temp.
1.5 vs 1.6 rocker ratio.
Vaccum pump vs no pump.
Windage tray vs no tray vs scraper vs lower oil level.
Anti reversion plate vs none.
Perfect vs crappy piston to head clearence with same comp.
E85 vs gas.
Posted By: Dunnuck Racing

Re: Ideas for testing,please - 10/30/12 04:01 AM

It looks like somebody brought this post back to life.
I'm looking into testing some of these suggestions. Some are relatively easy and inexpensive others would put me into bankruptcy !
I have a little 360 pump gas engine for a mule that I can start with,but the power numbers wont be very impressive for quite a while. Probably build a big block mule soon too.

Keith
Posted By: dvw

Re: Ideas for testing,please - 10/30/12 10:31 AM

How about thicker and standard pushrods? Crank scrapers versus windage tray. Oil vicosity. Oil pressure.
Doug
Posted By: gregsdart

Re: Ideas for testing,please - 10/30/12 10:55 AM

Quote:

Another vote for different oil-weight powergain/loss-measurements here!

Would be one of the easiest things to test IMO.
Do a dyno-run, change the oil, run again, aso.


I agree, would like testing to go a couple of steps farther.
Crankcase windage , oil control, affects of synthetic Vs dino on both. Tests to see how much oil stays up in the rotating assemblys, etc.Clear plastic panels in an oil pan for observation on some tests done years ago, but only after researching what has been learned. There is a wealth of knowledge at the engineering departments of the big auto companys and it would be great to have some of that info rather than reinventing the wheel. A look at some of the newer motors like the high rpm, smaller efficient ones coming out in the last couple of years might reveal some clues and give us a better starting point.
Posted By: gregsdart

Re: Ideas for testing,please - 10/30/12 11:13 AM

Another test would be valve train tests to see how close a flat tappet can come to a roller with some of the Nascar tricks used on stroker motors. Cost vs power. My first thoughts were titanium valves and 2.0 ratio rockers combined with ceramic lifters. Put these parts on different sized shortblocks with a given head, to find out just how close the power levels can be. First off would be to establish a budget, so there is a definite savings for both building and maintaining a combo. Low rpm strokers might be the most cost effective and most attractive for budget builds. A 541 shortblock with small port wedge heads comes to mind as one test. Rpm would most likely stay at or under 6,000 rpm.
Posted By: skrews

Re: Ideas for testing,please - 10/30/12 11:37 AM

4/7 swap cam , some say the power increases come from the change in intake pulse , other say its in reduced crank flex/smoother running firing order. I think it all in the crank flex. I would love to see someone build a motor with a single plane intake and a standard firing order cam. Then put in a 4/7 swap cam see what the power difference is. Then swap out the SP intake for a individual runner setup like a Hilborn , and run both cams again.
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: Ideas for testing,please - 10/30/12 05:23 PM

I've done some of the tests ask for, the oil pressure and oil weight and temps is easier to do on a BB Electric water pump versus mechanical with a tight belt on a BB, 5 to 8 HP Cam advance and retard,tests,tests and test some more good to know Fuel consumption and EGT, fuel distribution are all worthy of time and testing Ignition timing and valve lash testing on the engine dyno may or may not apply to gains at the track I really enjoy engine testing, on the dyno or at the track Carb. testing and modification on the primarys and at part throttle can really reap performance benefits On the 4/7 cam swap I've heard mix results on that, some say no power increase and some say it makes the crankshaft live longer at substained RPM Lots of things to test Thanks for wanting to share the results
Posted By: Winchester 73

Re: Ideas for testing,please - 11/01/12 04:38 AM

i read an artichle a long time ago about testing a smallblock chevy and an oil line or filter or something blew and sprayed all the oil into the dyno room.after an imense cleanup testing began again they forgot putting oil in the motor but it ran great so they thaught it must not had lost very much.it took four quarts to top it off and every time they added a quart the motor lost about ten hp total loss was 45 hp down from running it with 1 quart.
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: Ideas for testing,please - 11/01/12 05:59 AM

Quote:

i read an artichle a long time ago about testing a smallblock chevy and an oil line or filter or something blew and sprayed all the oil into the dyno room.after an imense cleanup testing began again they forgot putting oil in the motor but it ran great so they thaught it must not had lost very much.it took four quarts to top it off and every time they added a quart the motor lost about ten hp total loss was 45 hp down from running it with 1 quart.

The SB Chevy may like different things than the SB and BB Mopars like I've added oil to a BB after breaking in the motor with 4 quarts in a five quart pan, the dyno operator was shocked that the motor didn't loose HP and torque with 5 quarts versus 4 quarts of the same brand, weight and batch of oil Apples to apples, oranges to oranges in testing
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