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Dana 60 issue,,I have no hair left!!!!

Posted By: dartman366

Dana 60 issue,,I have no hair left!!!! - 09/09/12 10:48 PM

been pulling it out all day trying to figure this thing out,,so here go's My buddies Walt(WJ440)and Chad Bittle aer putting a D60 in their project car, it origionally had a 4.10 gear, so they got what is supposed to be the right Moser spool and Richmond 4.10 gear, but it won't fit the housing, it rideing the pinion teeth and there is no backlash to be had as it is solid up against the housing at the tube area,, the silly part is the ring or pinion has no markings for the pinion depth or backlash , we cannot figure if the spool is at fault or the ring and pinion, what do you guys suggest.
Posted By: MPerry

Re: Dana 60 issue,,I have no hair left!!!! - 09/09/12 10:53 PM

Isn't there different carriers for certain gear ratios?
Posted By: MPerry

Re: Dana 60 issue,,I have no hair left!!!! - 09/09/12 10:58 PM

Moser shows 2 different spools on their site 1 for 3 series and 1 for 4 series.
http://www.moserengineering.com/spools/full-spools/dana-60-35-spline-steel-spool-4-series.html

http://www.moserengineering.com/spools/full-spools/dana-60-35-spline-steel-spool-3-series.html
Posted By: fourgearsavoy

Re: Dana 60 issue,,I have no hair left!!!! - 09/09/12 10:58 PM

It sounds like the wrong spool The pinion setup good in the housing? I/E good pre-load for a base set-up with the old shims?
Did you start with a bare housing?
I wish I lived closer I have a spare spool on the shelf
Gus

Attached picture 7371923-mysavoy.jpg
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: Dana 60 issue,,I have no hair left!!!! - 09/09/12 11:33 PM

Quote:

been pulling it out all day trying to figure this thing out,,so here go's My buddies Walt(WJ440)and Chad Bittle aer putting a D60 in their project car, it origionally had a 4.10 gear, so they got what is supposed to be the right Moser spool and Richmond 4.10 gear, but it won't fit the housing, it rideing the pinion teeth and there is no backlash to be had as it is solid up against the housing at the tube area,, the silly part is the ring or pinion has no markings for the pinion depth or backlash , we cannot figure if the spool is at fault or the ring and pinion, what do you guys suggest.


Try removing all the shims on the passenger side and put them on the drivers side, another thing is to remove the pinion gear and reinstall the spool and ring gear, check it for run out. It shouldn't exceed .003 total. Lots of gremlins lurking out there It's our job to find and fix them
Posted By: dartman366

Re: Dana 60 issue,,I have no hair left!!!! - 09/09/12 11:50 PM

Quote:

Quote:

been pulling it out all day trying to figure this thing out,,so here go's My buddies Walt(WJ440)and Chad Bittle aer putting a D60 in their project car, it origionally had a 4.10 gear, so they got what is supposed to be the right Moser spool and Richmond 4.10 gear, but it won't fit the housing, it rideing the pinion teeth and there is no backlash to be had as it is solid up against the housing at the tube area,, the silly part is the ring or pinion has no markings for the pinion depth or backlash , we cannot figure if the spool is at fault or the ring and pinion, what do you guys suggest.


Try removing all the shims on the passenger side and put them on the drivers side, another thing is to remove the pinion gear and reinstall the spool and ring gear, check it for run out. It shouldn't exceed .003 total. Lots of gremlins lurking out there It's our job to find and fix them


this is a moser 4 series spool and the Richmond 4.10 street gear, according to Jegs and moser this is the combo to use, I may not of been clear with my explanation,, the spool bearing is completely tight against the housing, and the gear teeth are bottomed out in the pinion teeth, there is absolutly no back lash and you can feel the teeth bind up at each tooth mesh, we are not sure which is wrong, I know I miced the overall thickness of both the new ring gear and the one from the housing and the new one is approx .020 thicker eather the ring gear is too thick or the spool was machined wrong throwing the gear toward the pinion too far, but like I said there is no pinion depth or back lash marking on the set.
Posted By: tboomer

Re: Dana 60 issue,,I have no hair left!!!! - 09/10/12 12:21 AM

Bill...Read this thread I saved. There may be something there to help you.
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...&PHPSESSID=
Posted By: RUNCHARGER

Re: Dana 60 issue,,I have no hair left!!!! - 09/10/12 12:56 AM

4 series spool is for 4.56 and deeper gears. 4.10 gear uses a 3 series spool.

Sheldon
Posted By: Chris2581

Re: Dana 60 issue,,I have no hair left!!!! - 09/10/12 01:06 AM

Richmond also has a 4.10 gear for use with a 4 series carrier.Dr. Diff told me about it.
Posted By: max_maniac

Re: Dana 60 issue,,I have no hair left!!!! - 09/10/12 01:11 AM

There are 2 different 4.10 ring gears ---- on mine I have to use the thin ring gear set which is available from Summitt!!!


Maybe



Russ
Posted By: 71yelladustr

Re: Dana 60 issue,,I have no hair left!!!! - 09/10/12 01:20 AM

As mentioned above, 4.10 is the split on a 60. You need a 3 series spool or a different set of gears.
Posted By: dartman366

Re: Dana 60 issue,,I have no hair left!!!! - 09/10/12 01:28 AM

Quote:

There are 2 different 4.10 ring gears ---- on mine I have to use the thin ring gear set which is available from Summitt!!!


Maybe



Russ


Ok Russ, here is the part# for the ones that Walt has,,, 69-0052-1 which one is this, thick or thin.
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: Dana 60 issue,,I have no hair left!!!! - 09/10/12 01:30 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

been pulling it out all day trying to figure this thing out,,so here go's My buddies Walt(WJ440)and Chad Bittle aer putting a D60 in their project car, it origionally had a 4.10 gear, so they got what is supposed to be the right Moser spool and Richmond 4.10 gear, but it won't fit the housing, it rideing the pinion teeth and there is no backlash to be had as it is solid up against the housing at the tube area,, the silly part is the ring or pinion has no markings for the pinion depth or backlash , we cannot figure if the spool is at fault or the ring and pinion, what do you guys suggest.


Try removing all the shims on the passenger side and put them on the drivers side, another thing is to remove the pinion gear and reinstall the spool and ring gear, check it for run out. It shouldn't exceed .003 total. Lots of gremlins lurking out there It's our job to find and fix them


this is a moser 4 series spool and the Richmond 4.10 street gear, according to Jegs and moser this is the combo to use, I may not of been clear with my explanation,, the spool bearing is completely tight against the housing, and the gear teeth are bottomed out in the pinion teeth, there is absolutly no back lash and you can feel the teeth bind up at each tooth mesh, we are not sure which is wrong, I know I miced the overall thickness of both the new ring gear and the one from the housing and the new one is approx .020 thicker eather the ring gear is too thick or the spool was machined wrong throwing the gear toward the pinion too far, but like I said there is no pinion depth or back lash marking on the set.


Not compatable I bet, a 4 sereis spool and 4.10 gears, you need a 3 sereis spool I think
Posted By: DoctorDiff

Re: Dana 60 issue,,I have no hair left!!!! - 09/10/12 01:30 AM

Because Richmond does not make a standard (3 series) 4.10 ring and pinion, you probably have a 3 series spool. For some reason, Richmond has always listed this gear as "3 series", which is incorrect.

You need a spool designed for 4.56 - 7.17 gears, or any other brand of 4.10 gears, EXCEPT Richmond.

Posted By: max_maniac

Re: Dana 60 issue,,I have no hair left!!!! - 09/10/12 01:33 AM

Quote:

Quote:

There are 2 different 4.10 ring gears ---- on mine I have to use the thin ring gear set which is available from Summitt!!!


Maybe



Russ


Ok Russ, here is the part# for the ones that Walt has,,, 69-0052-1 which one is this, thick or thin.





That is the correct "thin" gear part # not sure what the issue would be then???


Russ
Posted By: wj440

Re: Dana 60 issue,,I have no hair left!!!! - 09/10/12 01:36 AM

Quote:

4 series spool is for 4.56 and deeper gears. 4.10 gear uses a 3 series spool.

Sheldon




Yes.. That's what I thought to.. On Summit website, it says for the 410 gear, to use the series 3 carrier, and then you look down at the bottom.. It says note ... Used the 456 carrier which I thought was series 4 spool. I'm confused now...lol. From my understanding, they said the reason for using the 456 carrier, is that Richmond made a thinner gear on the 410, So That Way they can go from 410 and higher using the same carrier On the 410 housings. Again thanks for all you guys help.

Brand Richmond Gear
Manufacturer's Part Number 6900521
Part Type Ring and Pinion Gears
Product Line Richmond Gear Ring and Pinion Sets
Summit Racing Part Number RMG-6900521
UPC 662960000942

Ring and Pinion Ratio 4.10:1
Cover Bolts 10
Ring Gear Bolts 12
Pinion Spline Count 29
Carrier Series 3
Ring Gear Rotation Standard
Ring Gear Teeth 41
Pinion Gear Teeth 10
Ring Gear Diameter (in) 9.750 in.
Pinion Shaft Diameter (in) 1.626 in.
Installation Kit Included No
Quantity Sold as a set.
Notes 4.56:1 or numerically higher carrier.
Tool Transmission Lookup
Calculator Gear Ratio Calculator

Attached picture 7372212-CellPhonepic6-10-2012244(Medium).jpg
Posted By: MPerry

Re: Dana 60 issue,,I have no hair left!!!! - 09/10/12 01:37 AM

Richmond Gear #836-69-0052-1
Dana 60 Ring & Pinion Set
Ratio: 4.10
Teeth: 41-10
Fits 4.56-Up carrier
Posted By: Chad Bittle

Re: Dana 60 issue,,I have no hair left!!!! - 09/10/12 02:46 AM

Quote:

Bill...Read this thread I saved. There may be something there to help you.
https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...&PHPSESSID=





The last post in that thread is kinda what we thought when we opened our richmond gears.
Posted By: RUNCHARGER

Re: Dana 60 issue,,I have no hair left!!!! - 09/10/12 03:06 AM

What did you use for pinion shims?
I think a "thick" ring gear along with the 4 series spool would not even allow you to get the carrier in the housing with the pinion gear in there? It sounds like you did get the carrier in there somehow.

Sheldon
Posted By: wj440

Re: Dana 60 issue,,I have no hair left!!!! - 09/10/12 03:48 AM

My question is, has anyone ever seen a ring and pinion for Richmond that doesn't have the markings on it telling you what the backlash is and what the pinion depth is. I'm going to call Richmond tomorrow. Thanks Walt

Attached picture 7372510-Dana60016.jpg
Posted By: RUNCHARGER

Re: Dana 60 issue,,I have no hair left!!!! - 09/10/12 04:19 AM

Ugh: I've never looked for backlash #'s I am not aware they are marked. What is on the head of the pinion? It should be 3.xvcx or + or -.

Sheldon
Posted By: astjp2

Re: Dana 60 issue,,I have no hair left!!!! - 09/10/12 06:13 AM

Dont forget about the 61 housing, its a 60 that the pinion offset was drilled different, the measurement are .125 off with those housings.
Posted By: dartman366

Re: Dana 60 issue,,I have no hair left!!!! - 09/10/12 01:44 PM

Quote:

Because Richmond does not make a standard (3 series) 4.10 ring and pinion, you probably have a 3 series spool. For some reason, Richmond has always listed this gear as "3 series", which is incorrect.

You need a spool designed for 4.56 - 7.17 gears, or any other brand of 4.10 gears, EXCEPT Richmond.




here is the moser part# 55D354 I believe that rea as a 35 spline series 4 carrier.
Posted By: wj440

Re: Dana 60 issue,,I have no hair left!!!! - 09/10/12 03:41 PM

Quote:

Ugh: I've never looked for backlash #'s I am not aware they are marked. What is on the head of the pinion? It should be 3.xvcx or + or -.

Sheldon


don't see those markings. The only markings that I see etched in is a 319 that tells me that this pinion gear goes with that ring gear. We did have to wait five months on this ring and pinion, because they were behind processing there 410 gears. Thanks

Attached picture 7373025-Dana60027.jpg
Posted By: VernMotor

Re: Dana 60 issue,,I have no hair left!!!! - 09/10/12 06:34 PM

Well that look like the thin gear witch is the same as a stock gear. and that is what I run in my car. I can put 4.30 in it. I did at one time. but I have a yukon spool. I would think if you had a spool for a thick gear,,you would have a ton of back lash !
Posted By: dartman366

Re: Dana 60 issue,,I have no hair left!!!! - 09/10/12 06:54 PM

It seems as tho Richmond (or someone) screwed up and packaged the wrong gear, plus it is also according to Richmond that they had some set's made up by one of their suppliers because this set does not have the Richmond marking's or the pinion depth and backlash etching's,,,,,,,we need a smiley pulling his hair out.
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: Dana 60 issue,,I have no hair left!!!! - 09/10/12 07:11 PM

Quote:

It seems as tho Richmond (or someone) screwed up and packaged the wrong gear, plus it is also according to Richmond that they had some set's made up by one of their suppliers because this set does not have the Richmond marking's or the pinion depth and backlash etching's,,,,,,,we need a smiley pulling his hair out.


Can you say Richmond makes gears sets for other company without the Richmond logo stamped or etch in them Either way your still screwwed on your set, sorry.Whats next?
Posted By: VernMotor

Re: Dana 60 issue,,I have no hair left!!!! - 09/10/12 10:24 PM

You ain't got no hair to pull out !
Posted By: RUNCHARGER

Re: Dana 60 issue,,I have no hair left!!!! - 09/11/12 01:57 AM

Don't tell me they're going to make you wait another 5 months for the correct gears.

Sheldon
Posted By: astjp2

Re: Dana 60 issue,,I have no hair left!!!! - 09/11/12 02:22 AM

Go get a REAL set of spicer gears and then you know it will work.
Posted By: wj440

Re: Dana 60 issue,,I have no hair left!!!! - 09/11/12 02:41 AM

Quote:

Don't tell me they're going to make you wait another 5 months for the correct gears.

Sheldon




No...6 months. He said it would be march.
Posted By: fourgearsavoy

Re: Dana 60 issue,,I have no hair left!!!! - 09/11/12 02:51 AM

The big question I have is why didn't you just order from Doctordiff???
He is the most qualified vendor to get your parts from AND you get them right the first time every time
Gus
Posted By: dartman366

Re: Dana 60 issue,,I have no hair left!!!! - 09/11/12 08:22 AM

Quote:

Quote:

It seems as tho Richmond (or someone) screwed up and packaged the wrong gear, plus it is also according to Richmond that they had some set's made up by one of their suppliers because this set does not have the Richmond marking's or the pinion depth and backlash etching's,,,,,,,we need a smiley pulling his hair out.


Can you say Richmond makes gears sets for other company without the Richmond logo stamped or etch in them Either way your still screwwed on your set, sorry.Whats next?


They probably do Cab but the tech guy said that some of these were made by Motive for them, and he thinks Motive boxed them wrong,,,I think they were the last set made on a friday before a holiday.
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