How much chain slop is too much?

Posted By: fiddlestix

How much chain slop is too much? - 09/09/12 01:19 PM

I had my block line honed. I checked the crank to cam centerline @5.1485" (.0035 less than stock). I have a new Cloyes timing set I put on it and have aprox. .160" deflection in the chain. Is this too much? Should I go with a -.005 chain or will it be too tight? Any suggestions? Also what is your favorite brand you can buy with a torrington thrust bearing(Cloyes, rollmaster, comp)?
Thanks guys!!

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: How much chain slop is too much? - 09/09/12 01:41 PM

What block is it

Posted By: fiddlestix

Re: How much chain slop is too much? - 09/09/12 01:45 PM

440

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: How much chain slop is too much? - 09/09/12 02:02 PM

I dont know if they offer a chain tensioner for the
BB but they do for the SB... I believe that if you
go to the short chain it would be too short... JMO...
I was surprised at how much drag there was when using
the chain tensioner ... I was putting my engine together
a couple of days ago and with just the crank in the
engine I couldnt really measure the torque to turn
the crank(didnt want to get my inch pound torque wrench
out) and I put the cam in and could spin it with
my fingers... as soon as I pulled the pin on the
chain tensioner it went up to about 8# to turn the
crank..... I thought that was ALOT

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: How much chain slop is too much? - 09/09/12 02:16 PM

I ran into this recently on a 440, I bought a -.005 chain and that made it nice and tight

mine had more than .160, I didn't measure it but it was probally closer to .250 total deflection

In a stock block

according to the owner

I'm not sure if Cloyes still offers -.005,-.010 and -.-15 chains any more

Posted By: Stanton

Re: How much chain slop is too much? - 09/09/12 02:16 PM

No tensioner for big blocks that I'm aware of. Go to the Rollmaster website, they have a neat gauge that converts chain slop into an oversize measurement.

http://www.romac.com.au/Tunnel_Bores.html

You just may be able to use a .005 over set. Chains will stretch with use so to answer your question, its only too tight if you can't get it on.

Posted By: sshemi

Re: How much chain slop is too much? - 09/09/12 03:19 PM

How many degrees can you move the crank without the cam moving?

Posted By: Crizila

Re: How much chain slop is too much? - 09/09/12 03:23 PM

Quote:

No tensioner for big blocks that I'm aware of. Go to the Rollmaster website, they have a neat gauge that converts chain slop into an oversize measurement.

http://www.romac.com.au/Tunnel_Bores.html

You just may be able to use a .005 over set. Chains will stretch with use so to answer your question, its only too tight if you can't get it on.

Good info! Thanks.

Posted By: fiddlestix

Re: How much chain slop is too much? - 09/09/12 05:46 PM

Thanks for the info. I assume I need to order a standard Rollmaster set to be able to use their measuring chart. Then I would have to order another set to match what I have. Sounds kinda expensive. I won't get a chance to mess with it until tomorrow. I will measure it using their technique tomorrow and post. Thanks guys!!

Posted By: sgcuda

Re: How much chain slop is too much? - 09/09/12 07:36 PM

440 Source makes a .005 over chain. I bought their standard chain kit and an extra .005 over chain for my block that was fitted with aluminum caps and line bored. Standard chain still fit well. Couldn't get the .005 chain on. Nice looking kit, too.

Posted By: Stanton

Re: How much chain slop is too much? - 09/09/12 08:19 PM

You should be able to use any timing set (new) to determine the slop since stock is stock regardless of who makes it (waiting for the arguments here !!)

Oversize chains ?!?!?! All chains are the same - its the top sprocket that's oversize. Which allows you to replace worn chains with any "off the shelf" double roller chain.

A top quality and inexpensive oversize set is available from JP Performance out of Australia. Available through any Motorstate distributor. p/n jpp5606t-lb5

http://www.motorstate.com/site/?ct=131#goto74170

Posted By: rowin4

Re: How much chain slop is too much? - 09/09/12 10:23 PM

Quote:

You should be able to use any timing set (new) to determine the slop since stock is stock regardless of who makes it (waiting for the arguments here !!)

Oversize chains ?!?!?! All chains are the same - its the top sprocket that's oversize. Which allows you to replace worn chains with any "off the shelf" double roller chain.

A top quality and inexpensive oversize set is available from JP Performance out of Australia. Available through any Motorstate distributor. p/n jpp5606t-lb5

http://www.motorstate.com/site/?ct=131#goto74170

I wonder if the statement about the oversize top sprocket is correct? seems that the lower sprocket is 1/2 the size of the top sprocket. If the top sprocket was larger then 2x diameter after a few revolutions the timing would be off. yes?

Posted By: Stanton

Re: How much chain slop is too much? - 09/09/12 11:02 PM

Quote:

I wonder if the statement about the oversize top sprocket is correct? seems that the lower sprocket is 1/2 the size of the top sprocket. If the top sprocket was larger then 2x diameter after a few revolutions the timing would be off. yes?

No, it has nothing to do with the sizes of the sprockets, it has to do with the number of teeth. As long as the top sprocket has twice as many teeth as the bottom sprocket and the chain pitch is close enough to fit, the cam will turn at half the speed of the the crank.

They can add to the diameter of the sprocket and the pitch of the teeth only changes ever so slightly. I imagine the top sprocket is also easier to hold to machine.

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: How much chain slop is too much? - 09/09/12 11:07 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I wonder if the statement about the oversize top sprocket is correct? seems that the lower sprocket is 1/2 the size of the top sprocket. If the top sprocket was larger then 2x diameter after a few revolutions the timing would be off. yes?

No, it has nothing to do with the sizes of the sprockets, it has to do with the number of teeth. As long as the top sprocket has twice as many teeth as the bottom sprocket and the chain pitch is close enough to fit, the cam will turn at half the speed of the the crank.

They can add to the diameter of the sprocket and the pitch of the teeth only changes ever so slightly. I imagine the top sprocket is also easier to hold to machine.

According to their web site its a matched set and
have to be used together....

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: How much chain slop is too much? - 09/09/12 11:29 PM

Quote:

You should be able to use any timing set (new) to determine the slop since stock is stock regardless of who makes it (waiting for the arguments here !!)

Oversize chains ?!?!?! All chains are the same - its the top sprocket that's oversize. Which allows you to replace worn chains with any "off the shelf" double roller chain.

A top quality and inexpensive oversize set is available from JP Performance out of Australia. Available through any Motorstate distributor. p/n jpp5606t-lb5

http://www.motorstate.com/site/?ct=131#goto74170

Not all chains or gears are the same for our motors

I have experimented with different brands ans style, standard double roller versus True roller, definetly different

The latest go around was with a older stock Mopar 3 bolt upper and lower gears with a stock replacemnt Cloyes chain for that appication, it was loose

I bought and used a -.005 Cloyes chain, it tighten right up

I couldn't switch any parts between the True Roller sets and the stock stuff

Posted By: Stanton

Re: How much chain slop is too much? - 09/10/12 01:58 AM

Any mention of "stock" was with regards to size only - not to the interchangeability of components.

And while I won't argue with you, I honestly find it hard to believe that someone would make an undersize chain. While it would be simple to machine an additional .010" in a sprocket's diameter, to make a (for example) .005 undersize chain would require each link to be "stanped" with an unbelievable tolerance. For example, there are approximately 72 links. Divide this into the .010 and you end up with each link having to be roughly 1/10,000 shorter than standard. Or alternatively you can make the rollers that much larger. I just can't see it!

Anyhow, give me an oversize sprocket any day!

Posted By: super451b

Re: How much chain slop is too much? - 09/10/12 06:52 AM

Ever considered a gear drive ?

Posted By: fiddlestix

Re: How much chain slop is too much? - 09/10/12 02:12 PM

I haven't considered the timing gears. I don't really like the sound. I rechecked the chain deflection. I believe I was forcing the chain a little hard on the first check. I get between .100" -.120". I am guessing this would probably be OK, but I'm checking into ordering a Rollmaster +.003 set. Am I wasting my time and money?

Posted By: super451b

Re: How much chain slop is too much? - 09/10/12 04:56 PM

I got tired of replacing timing chains every year so I decided to try a gear drive. That was ten years ago on my 383. I have them on both engines now and I'm happy I made the switch. I run the quiet type. They still have a slight whine to them but definitely not loud. The 383 has been align honed and the 451 has been align bored/honed with aluminum caps.

Posted By: Stanton

Re: How much chain slop is too much? - 09/10/12 07:04 PM

Quote:

but I'm checking into ordering a Rollmaster +.003 set. Am I wasting my time and money?

Good luck there. Not many places stock a variety of the undersize sets and the delivery time is ridiculous if they order - made in Australia and shipped by boat!

Also, when I was looking for mine I was informed that they were only producing the .005 and .010 sets.

Posted By: SCATPACK 1

Re: How much chain slop is too much? - 09/10/12 08:44 PM

Tim
I had the same problem with my 40 block. I went with a -5 undersized chain and no more slop. Chain is tight and zero timing wiggle movement now. Have not had a problem with it in over 5 years now.

Posted By: SCATPACK 1

Re: How much chain slop is too much? - 09/10/12 08:52 PM

Oversize chains ?!?!?! All chains are the same - its the top sprocket that's oversize. Which allows you to replace worn chains with any "off the shelf" double roller chain.

NOPE, not true!
I had too much slack in my brand new cloyes roller chain set. I bought a -5 chain (undersized) and there is no more slack. I used the same new gearset I already had, but I replaced/swapped 1 new chain for another new chain. I believe the -5 chain may have had oversized rollers. That is the only thing I can think of that would take up the slack difference.

Posted By: Stanton

Re: How much chain slop is too much? - 09/10/12 09:52 PM

Strange that they don't list or mention shorter chains in their catalog ... and only reference undersize sets !!!!

Posted By: fiddlestix

Re: How much chain slop is too much? - 09/10/12 10:58 PM

Well, I may be in luck. Thanks to one of the Moparts sponsors. He says he can get .001", .004", .005" and .010" oversized rollmaster timing sets. I ordered the .004" set and should have it in 3-4 days(drop shipped to me). If he comes through believe me you, I will let you guys know who it is and how helpful he has been.

Posted By: fiddlestix

Re: How much chain slop is too much? - 09/22/12 01:21 AM

Well, I finally got the timing chain all sorted out. I have been dealing with Todd at Marsh performance in N.C. His supplier told him he could get rollmaster in several different sizes. Well.... they came back after I told him I wanted a .004" oversize that they could only get standard sets. He then ordered me a .005" Cloyes set (to be drop shipped)and said I could return it if it didn't fit(for a standard Rollmaster). When it arrived last Friday it was a standard set. So, I called him right away and he got the .005" set reordered. It came in Thursday and fit great!!!!! He is sending me a return shipper for the standard set they sent me. I would say he has gone above and beyond for a $125 part. Which by the way is an excellent price. I would highly recommend him to anyone.
Thanks Todd