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Turbo Build for the duster info please
Posted By: DemonDust
Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/07/12 09:14 PM
I've been wanting to build a turbo setup for sometime. I've asked several times about it and guys have told me not to use my current setup at all for a turbo engine, because all the parts are too lightweight.
My target was around 1200 hp on E-85 blow thru, which I feel would be easily attainable with my current setup. So that being said how much ballpark would it cost to do this with a different engine SB? RB? any tried and proven builds? I feel like it will cost me a lot more to start over with a different build completely.. Maybe I am wrong?
Posted By: mokid
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/07/12 10:26 PM
Why don'y you talk to a turbo engine builder like Jensen, Bennet,guy who know a thing or two about combos and what works.
Posted By: DemonDust
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/07/12 10:40 PM
Never heard of either of them. Did a search and all I found was a import website. Have any links for these guys? Are they mopar guys?
Posted By: mokid
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/08/12 12:50 AM
stevemoorisengines.com
smreperformance.com
bennetracing.com some of the best in the biz
Posted By: JackGTX440
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/08/12 02:06 PM
What is your current combo?
Posted By: Abodyjohn88
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/08/12 02:18 PM
Hes running an r5p7......i say forget the haters and turbo that motor!........though iam partial to a procharger setup....that engine with an f1x/r would run like a scalded.cat! Call steve morris best procharger guy on earth!
Posted By: turbobitt
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/08/12 02:23 PM
Quote:
What is your current combo?
X2, More info needed.
I would consider going EFI. Fuel managment is key to making good reliable power. Your goal of 1200 HP sounds conservative.
Edit: I meant conservative for race gas at least...
Allan G.
Posted By: DemonDust
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/08/12 03:53 PM
Quote:
What is your current combo?
Currently it's 358 CI, heads flow 408 cfm on the intake naturally aspirated. 3.23 stroke 4.185 bore. 848 HP 565 ft/lbs. 5 stage Dry sump oiling system. 1050 4150 quickfuel carb. 7al ignition. 904 trans 7000 stall convertor. 5.33 with spool
Posted By: JackGTX440
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/08/12 03:56 PM
Who told you not to turbo this engine?? That would pretty much be my dream combo for my car. I'm currently doing a turbo 6.1. May want to maybe consider a beefier piston, but I only say this because I'm not sure what those pistons look like. What rods do you have? I too would also really consider EFI. Plus with E85, I think you'll make a bazillion hp.
Those engines have some pretty kick ass parts in them. It is obviously going to require a cam, convertor and gear change.
Posted By: DemonDust
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/08/12 04:09 PM
Ever since I mentioned this a few years ago guys have been saying don't do it. But when I was doing the project originally a ton of guys were on here saying that combo would never work as a drag car and wouldn't you know, these engines run 9.30's to 9.40's all day long with minimal to no tuning.
Yes the pistons will def need to be changed. I think total height of the piston skirt to deck is only 1.32 if I remember correctly. Extremely short pistons. I'm running a 6.250 rod right now, so plenty of room to shorten the rod for more comp height and make a dish I would think.
Yeah everything is billet or titanium
Posted By: turbobitt
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/08/12 07:38 PM
Quote:
Quote:
What is your current combo?
Currently it's 358 CI, heads flow 408 cfm on the intake naturally aspirated. 3.23 stroke 4.185 bore. 848 HP 565 ft/lbs. 5 stage Dry sump oiling system. 1050 4150 quickfuel carb. 7al ignition. 904 trans 7000 stall convertor. 5.33 with spool
What Compression ? I would say 9-9.5 would be perfect for that engine on race gas but could tolerate 10:1 if tune is right-on. 1400-1600 would be easily obtainable with your current combination providing compression isn't to high. Being somewhat small, it is beggin for a nice single T6 flange turbo. Wouldn't choke it to much and would spool a 100+mm turbo really well.
With that really nice modern engine, a nice FAST XFI would compliment it nicely.
Allan G.
Posted By: LA360
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/09/12 01:25 AM
The only thing I would imagine would be a problem is what crankshafts are available, I would imagine a 2" rod journal would have to be a minimum. Is something like that available without having one made? The blocks are plenty sturdy, piston and rods are easily changed, so I don't see what the fuss is about. The only other thing would be camshaft cores with a wide enough lobe separation. I don't know why no one else has tried an engine like this already
Posted By: DemonDust
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/09/12 05:52 AM
Currently the compression is at 11.8:1. If I ran the fast system wouldn't I have to do the dual quad setup? If I remember right the single 4 is good for like 600 hp.
I have several cranks ranging from 3.23-3.31 with 2.100 rod journals. They were from the early days when Petty was using the old R5 stuff. Compared to the newest R5 stuff, this stuff is heavy
My plan is to use one of the large journal cranks for the turbo build.
Posted By: cudacustoms1
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/09/12 10:50 AM
Do a search on the 69 cuda "blowfish" that rad rides built. I belive it has a motor kind of what you are looking for. I was told recently that it was close to 2200hp? Hope this helps.
Posted By: DemonDust
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/09/12 11:52 AM
I emailed them a couple times a while back, they don't have any build info on their site. I never heard anything from them.
Posted By: turbobitt
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/09/12 02:45 PM
Quote:
Currently the compression is at 11.8:1. If I ran the fast system wouldn't I have to do the dual quad setup? If I remember right the single 4 is good for like 600 hp.
I have several cranks ranging from 3.23-3.31 with 2.100 rod journals. They were from the early days when Petty was using the old R5 stuff. Compared to the newest R5 stuff, this stuff is heavy My plan is to use one of the large journal cranks for the turbo build.
Fast has a dominator style throttle body that would work nicley. If you were going EFI, I wouldn't consider that anyway. You would be building a custom system anyway and not some pre-made kit.
I would use a 90 degree adapter and mount a single blade Ford style 90mm or larger TB. This way it is easier to fab up some pipes. There are a lot of options available.
http://www.accufabracing.com/index.php?o...il&Itemid=5
Another really nice feature of the Fast system is that it intigrates the spark control into the system. This gives you a lot of flexability and really precise control.
Allan G.
Posted By: smokinwoody
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/09/12 03:40 PM
Quote:
I emailed them a couple times a while back, they don't have any build info on their site. I never heard anything from them.
call them and ask for his dad Jack...he's the man behind the mechanical genius....
http://www.radrides.com/home.php
Posted By: DemonDust
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/10/12 01:26 AM
I didn't know you could build a custom system with fast. That is great! I'll have to have a custom intake made then with injector bungs on it right? Sorry if this is a stupid question i don't know a whole lot about Efi.
I guess I'll have to give fast and rad rides phone calls and do some brain picking.
It's too bad this engine is dry sump, unless I redo the whole oiling system and put my tank in the trunk I can only fit one big turbo under the hood instead of twins. The intercooler is also going to be hard to fit in there, I'll get it figured out though.
Posted By: joshking440
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/10/12 01:29 AM
I wouldnt let Steve Morris build me a lawn mower engine.
He is as crooked as they come.....and I mean to the max crooked!!!!!
And as usual....he is a man of God
Posted By: DemonDust
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/10/12 01:34 AM
Quote:
I wouldnt let Steve Morris build me a lawn mower engine.
He is as crooked as they come.....and I mean to the max crooked!!!!!
And as usual....he is a man of God
That's good to know, I build all my own engines, so i will only use him for information or parts.
Posted By: TRENDZ
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/10/12 02:01 AM
With a dry sump, you can put the turbo(s) anywhere you want. I'd put a big set of 72s or 76s down low by the starter area. Also thought I would add this... Put the strongest wristpins in that you can get.
Posted By: dizuster
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/10/12 02:21 AM
Build a blow through E85. You can easily make 1200hp at the crank on a single 750hp carb, and for SURE on a 950hp carb. No dominator or EFI needed.
Do you want to do single or twin turbo? Are you building the car for a class?
Hell my junk sorted out will make 700~750hp to the crank, non-blow through, single 75mm turbo, with a near stock 360"! A R5/P7 motor would make more then your chassis could ever handle.
PM me if you have specific questions... I don't know everything there is to know, but I can tell you what I've learned with this build.
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Posted By: DemonDust
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/10/12 03:06 AM
Quote:
With a dry sump, you can put the turbo(s) anywhere you want. I'd put a big set of 72s or 76s down low by the starter area. Also thought I would add this... Put the strongest wristpins in that you can get.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think putting a turbo by the starter is a good idea. Would .927 be big enough?
Posted By: turbobitt
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/10/12 03:22 AM
Quote:
Quote:
With a dry sump, you can put the turbo(s) anywhere you want. I'd put a big set of 72s or 76s down low by the starter area. Also thought I would add this... Put the strongest wristpins in that you can get.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think putting a turbo by the starter is a good idea. Would .927 be big enough?
I have .927 tapperd wall pins and they hold up fine.
Allan G.
Posted By: turbobitt
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/10/12 03:30 AM
Quote:
I didn't know you could build a custom system with fast. That is great! I'll have to have a custom intake made then with injector bungs on it right? Sorry if this is a stupid question i don't know a whole lot about Efi.
I guess I'll have to give fast and rad rides phone calls and do some brain picking.
It's too bad this engine is dry sump, unless I redo the whole oiling system and put my tank in the trunk I can only fit one big turbo under the hood instead of twins. The intercooler is also going to be hard to fit in there, I'll get it figured out though.
It would be a matter of buying an ECU and they sell a harness just for this sort of thing. It will be more $$$ than a blow through but you will be happier in the end.
Another added benifit is having the ability of data logging your runs, and if you get the traction control option with FAST gives another level of tuning for your chasis.
FWIW - I think this is a perfect applioation for a single T6 turbo in the 91-101mm range. You can always mount a liquid intercooler in the passenger seat area to free up room in the engine bay...
Allan G.
Posted By: DemonDust
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/10/12 03:32 AM
Quote:
Build a blow through E85. You can easily make 1200hp at the crank on a single 750hp carb, and for SURE on a 950hp carb. No dominator or EFI needed.
Do you want to do single or twin turbo? Are you building the car for a class?
Hell my junk sorted out will make 700~750hp to the crank, non-blow through, single 75mm turbo, with a near stock 360"! A R5/P7 motor would make more then your chassis could ever handle.
PM me if you have specific questions... I don't know everything there is to know, but I can tell you what I've learned with this build.
Single or twin, I'm not really set on that. Not sure what would benefit me? Seems to me twins would cost a lot more, since you need two of everything.
I'm not building it for a class. I can do whatever I want. Since I took out the 4 speed and put the automatic in I cant enjoy it outside of the track anymore. So I'd like to make it streetable again is the main reason for doing this. I'll be able to get rid of the 7000 stall converter and the 5.33 gears.
Posted By: mopartony
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/10/12 03:38 AM
You guys need to stop this right NOW!!!
You are giving me fits!!
I have settled on my build and direction and here you are tempting ME!!!
All good info and I just might have to save and srounge and build a tubro bullet for the old car.....
Posted By: turbobitt
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/10/12 03:48 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Build a blow through E85. You can easily make 1200hp at the crank on a single 750hp carb, and for SURE on a 950hp carb. No dominator or EFI needed.
Do you want to do single or twin turbo? Are you building the car for a class?
Hell my junk sorted out will make 700~750hp to the crank, non-blow through, single 75mm turbo, with a near stock 360"! A R5/P7 motor would make more then your chassis could ever handle.
PM me if you have specific questions... I don't know everything there is to know, but I can tell you what I've learned with this build.
Single or twin, I'm not really set on that. Not sure what would benefit me? Seems to me twins would cost a lot more, since you need two of everything.
I'm not building it for a class. I can do whatever I want. Since I took out the 4 speed and put the automatic in I cant enjoy it outside of the track anymore. So I'd like to make it streetable again is the main reason for doing this. I'll be able to get rid of the 7000 stall converter and the 5.33 gears.
Single vs. twin is really depending on how much power you want to make, and how big you displacment your working with. Trying to push 8 cylinders worth of exhaust through a single can be very restrictive depending on what you select for a turbo. Generally speaking, big cube, big power engines would heavily depend on twins. Problem with twins is that it doubles the ineficiencies of the system, as well as fabrication and cost.
Allan G.
Posted By: DemonDust
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/10/12 03:54 AM
Thanks for all the info Allan. I'm really liking the sound of the fast system. It would definitely add streetability to the car.
When using a throttle body you have to use injectors as well? If so would I need a sheetmetal intake or could bungs be machined in my stock intake?
Posted By: DemonDust
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/10/12 04:01 AM
Quote:
You guys need to stop this right NOW!!!
You are giving me fits!!
I have settled on my build and direction and here you are tempting ME!!!
All good info and I just might have to save and srounge and build a tubro bullet for the old car.....
C'mon Tony, change your build one more time just for fun.
You know you'd like the streetability, not sure the trans would be up for street driving though...
Posted By: turbobitt
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/10/12 04:13 AM
Quote:
Thanks for all the info Allan. I'm really liking the sound of the fast system. It would definitely add streetability to the car.
When using a throttle body you have to use injectors as well? If so would I need a sheetmetal intake or could bungs be machined in my stock intake?
The throttle bodies don't incorpororate injectors. That is old school FI. You would need t have your intake modified for EFI bungs and make some fuel rails with appropriate hold-downs so they don't blow off during boost.
If you are realy interested in the EFI, I would suggest downloading the software from the FAST website and navigate through it. You can do this for free with no cost to you. I would also be willing to share some of my datalogs from my 8 second heavyweight streetcar if that would help.
YOur build sounds really exciting and think that if you decide to go down this path you won't be dissapointed.
Allan G.
Posted By: 1BADDUSTER
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/10/12 06:14 AM
josh what have you experienced with morris. I have never seen or heard bad about him? seems to know boosted engines well.
Posted By: DemonDust
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/10/12 07:30 AM
When I get to my laptop, I will check it out. I can't download it to my tablet.
I'm really leaning toward the EFI. So let's talk fuel systems. What would be the best one that I would never have to update if I decide I need more boost and that is rebuildable. Also I would like it to be alcohol compatible.
Posted By: Georg
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/10/12 07:50 AM
Who told such a silly thing that this motor is not capable for turbos? Check Jesel turbochargerd truck or Blowfish (landspeed record holder)car who took over 2000 hp out of this R5P7 motor with turbocharger.
With right parts and redline limit to around 8500 RPMs you can make 1000+ hp easely. I lso spoke with Steve Morris about it and he told that with alcohol and turbo/turbos some 1200hp is absolutely no problem for such a motor
Good luck and keep us posted. To be honest then turbocharge this motor is in my plans as well...
Here is a link of my friends V6 turbocharged Buick. This motor have a VERY big turbo and that motor produce near 1500hp right now I guess with ethanol fuel. If this little V6 can handle such a boost (over 25PSI) then why R5/P7 cant do it? Just need to have good ECU to control everything and FAST Xfi defenately is the one
This black Buick what made terrible wheelstands is the one what Iam talkeing about :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZYhXc_cR0gbest time so far 7,65sec
Posted By: turbobitt
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/10/12 12:51 PM
Quote:
When I get to my laptop, I will check it out. I can't download it to my tablet.
I'm really leaning toward the EFI. So let's talk fuel systems. What would be the best one that I would never have to update if I decide I need more boost and that is rebuildable. Also I would like it to be alcohol compatible.
With your power level, I would think Weldon would be the only choice. I'm using a single Aeromotive and it works well but Weldon has some bigger pumps. I would also consider using a fuel pump controler to reduce pump speed during normal street driving. The fuel gets hot from recirculating.
Allan G.
Posted By: joshking440
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/10/12 01:45 PM
Jesse, the single best decision I made was to use a mechanical fuel pump... if you need a pump, that would be the route I went!
Posted By: DemonDust
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/10/12 02:05 PM
What pump did you use? Is it ok for street use? Enough psi for EFI?
Posted By: TrxR
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/10/12 02:45 PM
Quote:
I wouldnt let Steve Morris build me a lawn mower engine.
He is as crooked as they come.....and I mean to the max crooked!!!!!
And as usual....he is a man of God
Thats the First bad thing ive heard about Steve Morris. Ive been told to stay away from SMRE as its owned by someone else now.
Josh Im not doubting you, its just the first bad word ive heard.
Thanks
Posted By: turbobitt
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/10/12 02:48 PM
Quote:
Jesse, the single best decision I made was to use a mechanical fuel pump... if you need a pump, that would be the route I went!
Do you ned to have the fuel supply near the pump to make this work correctly ? In other words have a front mounted fuel cell ?
Allan G.
Posted By: JackGTX440
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/10/12 03:24 PM
Quote:
What Compression ? I would say 9-9.5 would be perfect for that engine on race gas but could tolerate 10:1 if tune is right-on. 1400-1600 would be easily obtainable with your current combination providing compression isn't to high. Being somewhat small, it is beggin for a nice single T6 flange turbo. Wouldn't choke it to much and would spool a 100+mm turbo really well.
With that really nice modern engine, a nice FAST XFI would compliment it nicely.
Allan G.
I am really on he same page with Allan here.
Posted By: dizuster
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/10/12 05:08 PM
The only big cost of doing twins instead of single is that you end up with 2 waste gates. Other then that, it's pretty similar in costs. You have to build two hot sides anyway. You either merge the exhaust, or you merge the boost. Either way it's about the same fab work.
With twins you'll need two WG's though, so that is about your only redundant cost. In general two small turbos = $$$ 1 big turbo. The packaging of twins is definately easier since you have a much smaller turbo to work with. Packaging a big T6 can be a bit of a hassle, but nothing impossible.
Posted By: MattW
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/10/12 06:15 PM
Quote:
Who told such a silly thing that this motor is not capable for turbos? Check Jesel turbochargerd truck or Blowfish (landspeed record holder)car who took over 2000 hp out of this R5P7 motor with turbocharger.
With right parts and redline limit to around 8500 RPMs you can make 1000+ hp easely. I lso spoke with Steve Morris about it and he told that with alcohol and turbo/turbos some 1200hp is absolutely no problem for such a motor
Good luck and keep us posted. To be honest then turbocharge this motor is in my plans as well...
Here is a link of my friends V6 turbocharged Buick. This motor have a VERY big turbo and that motor produce near 1500hp right now I guess with ethanol fuel. If this little V6 can handle such a boost (over 25PSI) then why R5/P7 cant do it? Just need to have good ECU to control everything and FAST Xfi defenately is the one
This black Buick what made terrible wheelstands is the one what Iam talkeing about : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZYhXc_cR0g
best time so far 7,65sec
I thought BLOWFISH was a 4 cylinder miget engine with a P 7 head. 
Posted By: JackGTX440
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/10/12 06:20 PM
Quote:
I thought BLOWFISH was a 4 cylinder miget engine with a P 7 head.
I thought this too
Posted By: MattW
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/10/12 06:32 PM
Just confined this but with a P5 head. Maybe they changed engines?
Posted By: TRENDZ
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/10/12 09:15 PM
2 turbos one wastegate. Much easier to synchronize launch boost control. Go with efi. Nobody that has used efi on a turbo would ever go back to a carb, even more so on a street driven car.A carb may be all you need... but it wont be all you want.
Posted By: DemonDust
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/10/12 09:17 PM
I just looked thru all the pics of the build. That is def a R5P7. Looking thru the pics I also noticed something that they did. They pressed a slug into the open deck of the engine to seal it off. I'm guesing they didn't trust the open deck with boost?
I couldn't get the pics off radrides, so here is a pic of my engine with the open deck.
Posted By: DemonDust
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/10/12 09:23 PM
Quote:
2 turbos one wastegate. Much easier to synchronize launch boost control. Go with efi. Nobody that has used efi on a turbo would ever go back to a carb, even more so on a street driven car.A carb may be all you need... but it wont be all you want.
I think I'm pretty set on EFI. Not sure about twins though. I have a lot of room in my engine bay but I think it would be just too cluttered for me.
Maybe someone has some pics of twin turbo setups under the hood of a mopar? I don't want to see non 70's era twin turbo pics. I want it to relate to what I'd be doing.
Posted By: DemonDust
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/10/12 09:30 PM
Posted By: smokinwoody
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/10/12 10:16 PM
Quote:
Quote:
I thought BLOWFISH was a 4 cylinder miget engine with a P 7 head.
I thought this too
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v506/smokinwoody/BLOWFISH/?albumview=slideshow
some pics at Rad Rides
Posted By: MattW
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/10/12 10:28 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I thought BLOWFISH was a 4 cylinder miget engine with a P 7 head.
I thought this too
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v506/smokinwoody/BLOWFISH/?albumview=slideshow
some pics at Rad Rides
The Hot Rod article shows a P5 and 4 cylinder midget engine. They must of changed engine because your photo is a R5 P7. Soooooo
Just went through your photo album and the midget engine is there. They must of upgraded it. LOL
Posted By: smokinwoody
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/10/12 10:37 PM
those pictures are when they were re-configuring the car after they had run it with the 4cyl....they wanted to go faster obviously...
Posted By: DemonDust
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/10/12 10:40 PM
I see they are running dual waste gates on this setup. Is that needed?
What is better wastegate or BOV? and why?
Posted By: joshking440
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/10/12 11:28 PM
you will be ok with a single 60mm Tial Gate or a 66mm Precision Gate. Buy the big tial BOV as well
Posted By: turbobitt
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/10/12 11:33 PM
Quote:
I see they are running dual waste gates on this setup. Is that needed?
What is better wastegate or BOV? and why?
A BOV serves a different purpose. It dumps boost when you get off the throttle. When the throttle blade closes, the pressure spike is far greater than boost pressure and puts a lot of load on the compressor.
The make some large gates that can handle a lot of flow and don't think you would need two gates.
Allan G.
Posted By: DemonDust
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/11/12 12:28 AM
Ok I kinda thought that was overkill.
What are your thoughts on the open deck?
Posted By: turbobitt
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/11/12 01:20 AM
Quote:
Ok I kinda thought that was overkill.
What are your thoughts on the open deck?
I don't know much about that but it looks like it can move around under load/boost ??
Allan G.
Posted By: DemonDust
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/11/12 01:58 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Ok I kinda thought that was overkill.
What are your thoughts on the open deck?
I don't know much about that but it looks like it can move around under load/boost ??
Allan G.
This is the only part that has ever worried me about putting boost to it. The walls are very thick butI don't know how much it would take to flex it. I would think the whole bank would have to flex and the only way I could imagine it flexing would be up and down. I would think that it would be flexing already at the current power level. Do you think the head and all the bolts would hold the jugs in place?
Posted By: dizuster
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/11/12 02:28 AM
Few comments, first of all you have A LOT of room to work with packaging 6 turbos in, let alone 2, let alone 1. Nothing to worry about there...
I wouldn't worry about the block at all. 1200hp is sort of a joke. Honestly it would be a waste of a motor that good. You could make 1200hp with a 383/400 and Indy SR heads. WAAAAAY cheaper, and WAAAAY easier.
As trendz said, EFI is nice, amazing drivability, and tuning to the greatest degree. But no one can argue with the fact that you can simply bolt a carb on and go... no tuning needed other then the occasional jet change.
Posted By: DemonDust
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/11/12 02:52 AM
Quote:
Few comments, first of all you have A LOT of room to work with packaging 6 turbos in, let alone 2, let alone 1. Nothing to worry about there...
I wouldn't worry about the block at all. 1200hp is sort of a joke. Honestly it would be a waste of a motor that good. You could make 1200hp with a 383/400 and Indy SR heads. WAAAAAY cheaper, and WAAAAY easier.
As trendz said, EFI is nice, amazing drivability, and tuning to the greatest degree. But no one can argue with the fact that you can simply bolt a carb on and go... no tuning needed other then the occasional jet change.
I know the T6 was mentioned as a good turbo to use. I have no idea how big size wise this is. But by your comment I should have no problem stuffing it under the hood?
1200 hp was just a starting point if I can safely go more I will. I'm not scared
The reason I liked the efi was because it could mange my system better and data log. If I could make big power with a carb I would. I just don't want high maintenance. I like the idea of the computer changing jets for me
Posted By: turbobitt
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/11/12 03:01 AM
Quote:
As trendz said, EFI is nice, amazing drivability, and tuning to the greatest degree. But no one can argue with the fact that you can simply bolt a carb on and go... no tuning needed other then the occasional jet change.
I don't have any experience on carb turbo cobinations so don't want to come accross as the athority on Turbocharging but I would really think that there is nothing to be saved in a blow-through system. If you seen a well tuned fuel map and the changing A/F table required to make reliable HP you would see why I have this bias opinion to EFI. Fixing a melt-down is not way easier.
For example, A/F starts at about 13.7 at low boost/vacuum to about 11.5 at 30# boost. Any change to the weather conditions and the wide band O2 will add fuel and potentially save an engine.
Allan G.
Posted By: prochargedhemi
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/11/12 03:22 AM
for efi system i would really look into the new Holley HP efi. kit #550-605 if your proficient at wiring that kit has an unterminated harness that you will have to put ends on etc. yourself.
Fuel system go as big as you can. however, remember that all big electric pumps have huge electric draw. I have had good luck with the magnafuel efi series pumps and also if you don't mind it cranking a revolution or two more the aeromotive belt drive pump is also a great alternative.
Posted By: DemonDust
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/11/12 03:35 AM
I was actually looking at the magnafuel stuff. Seems like they make pumps that handle what I need.
I thought I read or heard at sometime in my life that quench doesn't really bother a turbo build. If this is true could I just get shorter rods to drop the comp ratio? The reason I am asking is I have a nice set of pistons that utilize a 927 pin. If I could just buy rods instead of pistons as well would shave 1k off this build that I could put in a different area. Just brain storming here. If not it's fine just a thought.
Posted By: bigtimeauto
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/11/12 03:38 AM
Quote:
Quote:
For example, A/F starts at about 13.7 at low boost/vacuum to about 11.5 at 30# boost. Any change to the weather conditions and the wide band O2 will add fuel and potentially save an engine.
Allan G.
I would never let my EFI go closed loop with e85 especialy If your not using a lab grade sensor.
Posted By: DemonDust
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/11/12 03:43 AM
Quote:
Quote:
For example, A/F starts at about 13.7 at low boost/vacuum to about 11.5 at 30# boost. Any change to the weather conditions and the wide band O2 will add fuel and potentially save an engine.
Allan G.
I would never let my EFI go closed loop with e85 especialy If your not using a lab grade sensor.
Huh?
Posted By: bigtimeauto
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/11/12 03:50 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
For example, A/F starts at about 13.7 at low boost/vacuum to about 11.5 at 30# boost. Any change to the weather conditions and the wide band O2 will add fuel and potentially save an engine.
Allan G.
I would never let my EFI go closed loop with e85 especialy If your not using a lab grade sensor.
Huh?
detonation shows up as a rich condition to the 02
Posted By: bigtimeauto
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/11/12 03:54 AM
No matter what you decide to do, you either need somebody really good who can help you or you need to be really good at reading plugs. They are the only thing that tells you whats going on inside the engine.
Posted By: j.mcconnell
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/11/12 05:14 AM
Just slap at 80mm+ t6 based turbo on there with a big hot-side housing and all the supporting hardware (BOV/WG/Carb/Pump), let it eat and report back on how the nascar engine holds up. dumber stuff has been done and held together. you probably wont make 1000+ but you'll get your feet wet, see what flys apart and go from there. These are uncharted waters in mopar-land, even more so with ex-cup parts.
I'm going to throw a BW 75mm($400 @ ebay) on a small block MP 3.454in crank($50 @ Carlisle), Lentz 6.2in. roundy-round takeout rods ($150 @ ebay) and custom pistons in a free 318 block. Shooting for 10's for $5k including whatever kind of disposable a-body/f-body/dakota I find on craigslist for cheap.
Posted By: turbobitt
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/11/12 12:37 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
For example, A/F starts at about 13.7 at low boost/vacuum to about 11.5 at 30# boost. Any change to the weather conditions and the wide band O2 will add fuel and potentially save an engine.
Allan G.
I would never let my EFI go closed loop with e85 especialy If your not using a lab grade sensor.
Huh?
detonation shows up as a rich condition to the 02
My example is not with E85 but with race gas. Don't know the optimal A/F for E85.
Allan G.
Posted By: DemonDust
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/11/12 12:48 PM
Quote:
Just slap at 80mm+ t6 based turbo on there with a big hot-side housing and all the supporting hardware (BOV/WG/Carb/Pump), let it eat and report back on how the nascar engine holds up. dumber stuff has been done and held together. you probably wont make 1000+ but you'll get your feet wet, see what flys apart and go from there. These are uncharted waters in mopar-land, even more so with ex-cup parts.
I'm going to throw a BW 75mm($400 @ ebay) on a small block MP 3.454in crank($50 @ Carlisle), Lentz 6.2in. roundy-round takeout rods ($150 @ ebay) and custom pistons in a free 318 block. Shooting for 10's for $5k including whatever kind of disposable a-body/f-body/dakota I find on craigslist for cheap.
Why would I do that? I bought my stuff before it was cheap. I've got a lot in it. I'm not gonna grenade it just because I want to see what will fail first. My block has bushed keyway lifters, no way am I spending money to do that again on a count of stupidity.
You have fun blowing up your 318 diplomat... 
Posted By: turbobitt
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/11/12 12:50 PM
Quote:
I was actually looking at the magnafuel stuff. Seems like they make pumps that handle what I need.
I thought I read or heard at sometime in my life that quench doesn't really bother a turbo build. If this is true could I just get shorter rods to drop the comp ratio? The reason I am asking is I have a nice set of pistons that utilize a 927 pin. If I could just buy rods instead of pistons as well would shave 1k off this build that I could put in a different area. Just brain storming here. If not it's fine just a thought.
One thing you need to do is look at the fuel output at the intended boost. You FP regulator will need to raise the fuel pressure at a 1:1 ratio to keep the pressure differential the same across the injector. For example, lets say base fuel pressure is 45 psi, at 20 psi boost fuel pressure would be 65 psi so the flow rate is consistant. This is where it gets challenging for the pumps. A lot of manufactures advertise impressive flow rates at base pressure but they all fall off under higher pressure where you need it the most. Since most of them offer a flow graph, I would select a pump based on projected power, and 30 psi boost + 45 psi(Base pressure) or 75 psi. This should be enough to cover your needs and future upgrades. You will find that there are not many pumps that can support that flow. As stated above, voltage supply will be important.
Allan G.
Posted By: dodge turbo
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/11/12 05:29 PM
You need to get on a turbo specific site since you are brand new to this to answer a lot of questions and look at other peoples builds reguardles of brand..a engine is a engine reguardless of brand. Turbomustangs.com is full of info and will answer all your question all you need to do is read alot
Posted By: JackGTX440
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/11/12 05:54 PM
Ditto
Posted By: Fury Fan
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/11/12 08:51 PM
Quote:
Ditto
Visit the mopar section of the turboforums and read, read, read. Learn to sift thru teh crap. Learn who has good experience/advice and who doesn't.
As a somewhat-famous person on the mustangforums said - 'everybody blows up their 1st turbo motor'. Keep that in mind with your expensive R5P7. If you detonate a NA engine you ease off and drive home thinking about your next tunign change. Detonate a turbo engine and liekly the towtruck driver will ask you why you're crying.
http://www.turbomustangs.com/smf/index.php?board=21.0
Posted By: furious70
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/11/12 10:06 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
For example, A/F starts at about 13.7 at low boost/vacuum to about 11.5 at 30# boost. Any change to the weather conditions and the wide band O2 will add fuel and potentially save an engine.
Allan G.
I would never let my EFI go closed loop with e85 especialy If your not using a lab grade sensor.
Huh?
detonation shows up as a rich condition to the 02
Generally, you would have _very_ small limits programmed in for removing fuel based on O2 to safeguard against this sort of thing. Better to have the thing loading up and going pig rich while you tune than have it erroneously take out fuel when you need it.
Posted By: turbobitt
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/12/12 12:26 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
For example, A/F starts at about 13.7 at low boost/vacuum to about 11.5 at 30# boost. Any change to the weather conditions and the wide band O2 will add fuel and potentially save an engine.
Allan G.
I would never let my EFI go closed loop with e85 especialy If your not using a lab grade sensor.
Huh?
detonation shows up as a rich condition to the 02
Generally, you would have _very_ small limits programmed in for removing fuel based on O2 to safeguard against this sort of thing. Better to have the thing loading up and going pig rich while you tune than have it erroneously take out fuel when you need it.
Good point and that is exactly how mine is set up. The is another nice feature of EFI, it can be limited to how much correction and in what direction.
Allan G.
Posted By: cold85
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/12/12 02:02 PM
are you building for a class?
Posted By: dizuster
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/13/12 12:53 AM
As bigtime pointed out, the EFI doesn't (ok... can but shouldn't) control the fuel based on live O2 information. If the car goes lean, the EFI is usually in "open loop" under full throttle. This means any lean/rich spikes WON'T be compensated for. Works just like a carb.
Also, anyone who thinks setting up EFI to work is easier then a carb is fooling themselves. Yes once you get it dialed in, changing A/F ratio is as simple as a few key strokes, but I can tell you that I've made 2 jet changes on my blow through carb, and it idles and drives perfect with that little effort.
As for the turbo, yes you have a ton of room for a T6. However, if you're going to use that motor, a T4 would probably work (just because it's only 358"). As others have suggested, get on some turbo forums.
The turbo information on here is sparse and you've got a LONG way to go before you start buying parts. No offense, but if you don't know the difference between a BOV and a WG, you're not ready to buy any parts. Don't take that the wrong way, it's just there is a lot to learn about turbo's that is a lot different from NA stuff.
Seriously though, you need to pick a real HP goal. That is the biggest problem that gets people into trouble. Saying I want to make 1200 or more doesn't help anyone point you in the right direction. Remember that you need a chassis, rear axle, fuel system, etc to support the power. Set a plan and stick with it. 1200hp is A LOT more then what you have now, and you certainly don't need a R5/P7 motor to make that happen. You could sell it off and be miles ahead with the project if you did something more conventional.
BTW... one word of advice, E85 is probably not going to work at the ice drags. It doesn't start very good at E85, and in the cold states it gets watered down to E70 just to get cars to start/run/idle right in the cold. I think you'd be better off sticking with pump gas and an intercooler. The cold air will work great, and you can make all the power in the world on 93 and a good intercooler.
Posted By: dizuster
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/13/12 01:16 AM
T6 in an early b-body. You have a lot more room then I do.
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Posted By: TRENDZ
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/13/12 04:04 AM
There are things that I agree and disagree with on diz's post.
First, the wg/ bov question. Yes- you need to spend some time learning the whys and hows of boosting an engine. Again, no disrespect but anything you aren't sure about should be discussed(like we are doing now) before you make your plan and start collecting parts.
I also agree with the e85 advice. I don't think it's for you.
I don't agree with getting rid of that engine. It's a sweet piece, and with a bit of changes, will work great.
No way will a t4 based single turbo work for this application. This engine will need the highest exhaust flow available. I would keep the cam thats in it, and select turbos that will keep the pressure ratios as close to 1:1 as you can get.
Efi will give you absolute fuel control over a much wider dynamic range than a carb will be able to control. A blowthru carb on a 700 hp engine will be able to be tuned acceptably, but when you are trying to strech the curve out over almost double the fuel demand, and still maintain nice driveability, I feel the work to get a carb to work anywhere close to efi would be like chasing a rainbow.
I will suggest picking an efi system capable of dis ignition. If driveability AND power are important to you, take into consideration the fact that there are ignition events that are needed to happen from 0 degrees to 50. Try to control and phase a distributor between those ranges. Good luck, that will be one bad mambo-jahambo with a set of hair driers on it. My suggestion about turbos down by the starter was more of an example of what you can get away with with a dry sump. Normally turbos need a gravity feed to a level much above the pan level. You are free to do as you wish with placement.
Posted By: DemonDust
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/13/12 06:17 AM
Quote:
are you building for a class?
No, the car is really not built for any class. I built it and use it at the ice drags, which have few to no rules for modified or time classes. But since going to the strip last fall I'd like to start racing asphalt. Not really sure on what classes I'd even fit into.
Posted By: DemonDust
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/13/12 06:35 AM
OK, first off I don't know shi+ about turbo systems, hence the reason I started this post. I was reading on the turboforums but it seems when I had a question it took forever and a day to get an answer. I could come to moparts and have an answer in minutes to hours.
Second, I don't feel like 300 hp is a lot more hp. And E85 isn't for me? Seems it's been running pretty well the last few years. My rear has been holding up to almost 900 hp for 3 years now. Just did a ladder bar setup and the gears show no signs of wear.
Trendz, I had no intentions on buying anything at this point. I just wanted to get educated and find out what it would take to do. Btw, where are you in mke? I'm over in Waukesha. I finally found a shop to rent so I can bring my junk down here and work on it. I haven't really touched my car in almost a year now since I've been working here in mke.
Posted By: JackGTX440
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/13/12 06:28 PM
Quote:
OK, first off I don't know shi+ about turbo systems, hence the reason I started this post. I was reading on the turboforums but it seems when I had a question it took forever and a day to get an answer. I could come to moparts and have an answer in minutes to hours.
One thing you have to remember on theturboforums; it is a lot smaller site that moparts. Moparts is probably one of the biggest car forums on the net. Also, the mopar section on there is small. It is just a little subforum from the big one. Most of the very knowledgeable turbo guys on there with good info are mod motor guys and some LS guys. Those people don't browse the little mopar section. I would spend my time and research mostly in the general turbo tech section.
Also, it takes a lot of searching and reading on that site to get up to speed. The search features works well. I would search things like "1500 hp single turbo" and see what shows up. See what people are doing and how many cubes they have and what turbos they are running and specs on their heads. If you only visited te mopar section, you probably aren't going to te far. Remember, all engines work the same. The turbo system doesn't care if the engine says Mopar or Ford on it.
Posted By: TRENDZ
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/13/12 09:21 PM
In no way was I meaning to put you down. Having these discussions with many people with different experience and goals helps... even if it does "muddy the waters" some.
I was under the impression that this car is used in cold climates and what he said is true, the fuel's composition is not a stable platform for that situation. Hey if it's been working for you, don't stop on my account.
I am not against e85. I have a p7 turbo project that will be built to run on e85, but not in the conditions you subject yours to.
Im on the south west side of Milwaukee by the way.
Posted By: furious70
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/14/12 03:55 PM
Your absolute BEST next step is to take TRENDZ out for some beers and let him regale you with all that he's done with this stuff. You'd have a hard time paying someone for a better education and he's right there nearby!
Posted By: DemonDust
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 09/14/12 04:07 PM
That can most certainly be done. Beer and wings sounds like a plan.
Posted By: Georg
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 10/05/12 11:56 AM
what about useing Cummins turbocharger?
Posted By: Big B
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 10/05/12 12:29 PM
Quote:
Why don'y you talk to a turbo engine builder like Jensen, Bennet,guy who know a thing or two about combos and what works.
Since you live in WI why don't you have Todd from Goodwincompetition racing engine build you a turbo motor. Just email him and He will answer all your questions. He's not cheap.
Posted By: Kam*Kuda
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 10/05/12 12:42 PM
FYI My car is almost together Dyno testing within a month
The fuel system
fast xfi
aeromotive eliminator pump
aeromotive fuel pump controller to save the pump on the street
fast 90 mm throttle body
83 lb injectors
This would be good to about 1000 hp and you can step up to bigger injectors or 2 sets of injectors for more HP
This is a mock up pick
Posted By: DemonDust
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 10/05/12 12:51 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Why don'y you talk to a turbo engine builder like Jensen, Bennet,guy who know a thing or two about combos and what works.
Since you live in WI why don't you have Todd from Goodwincompetition racing engine build you a turbo motor. Just email him and He will answer all your questions. He's not cheap.
I can build my own engines, don't need to pay someone to do it. I would consider him as a reference. Thanks for the info.
Posted By: JackGTX440
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 10/05/12 01:07 PM
Quote:
what about useing Cummins turbocharger?
None of the holset turbos that come on cummins powered pickup trucks (I'm assuming that's what you meant) flow enough air to come close. It would probably take four or five hx-35's to flow close to enough air to make the power that has been discussed.
On the other hand, twin hx-35's would be a great economical way to make a super simple, super street friendly, drive across the country 700fwhp 340.
Posted By: DakFink
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 10/05/12 01:50 PM
First off about the Blow Fish: It was originally a P5-Hemi head- they grenaded that. Since they had to build another motor they wanted to go faster and now they have the R5P7 in it.
As you said; you saw they had put slugs in between the block wall and Floating Cylinders, they have band-aided the issue that many have seen and told you over the years why they wouldn't build a Boost application for that motor. HONDAs were notorious for this same configuration and Issue in their early years. Those guys Pinned and Plated there's and run some insane Boost and HP through those engines.
Making 1200+ with boost is not going to be like making 1200hp NA. NA you usually see a Trq Number that is 25-40% lower than the HP number. With Boost your TRQ number is going to up there closer to your HP number. something like 1200hp and 700ft/lbs=NA and 1200hp and 980ft/lbs=boosted. This is what is going to cause issues. TRQ breaks parts NOT HP. And Boosted motors have plenty of it. Same reason people short fill race blocks especially for nitrous and Boosted applications. Which those blocks have a solid fire deck.
Far as selecting parts: I call on the Pros. I to this day couldn't tell you the difference in a T4 or a T6 based Turbo. I called Precision and Turbonetics when I was ready to order mine and spent 2hrs on the phone with them discussing what I had what I was after and what I needed. After they both gave me the exact same setup details I knew what I needed and found a supplier. Now tell me what AR you have on the exhaust side and what MM the compressor side is and I know what you're working with.
Far as the fuel Pump; I'm going to be using MagnaFuel myself. I went with them for the simple fact they had an EFI-Package that fit my needs. Now they do have a Mechanical Pump available as well. Weldon is also a damn good choice. That's pretty much the only 2 I would even think to use. Always get more pump than you think you'll need. TOO many times I have seen pumps crap out from working too hard or plain out just can't keep up.
EFI: that's a whole another ball game in itself. I personally went with BS3 (Big Stuff 3) for the simple fact I could get all the things that were OPTIONS for FAST at the time were all included with BS3. And by the time I paid the Higher price for the BS3 it was still cheaper than the Fast if I added all the extras to Fast to make it equal to BS3. That was 2006. NOW?! Do your own homework and see what suits you best. I always hear guys say to get something that you know someone that can tune it for you. That used to be true. Not so much any more. Any of the good tuners worth a flip today can tuner either one. Same with getting help at the track. BS3 has become more dominant in recent years. But most that run BS3 have ran Fast in the past and know both systems. The same guy that owns BS3 developed the original Fast systems (Speedpro EFI) So they maintain a lot of similarities. There are other systems out there But they are usually more expensive or not up to the task.
Precision turbo has some basic info on wastegates and BlowOffValves on their website in a PDF file. IIRC it's under their FAQ link or something close to that.
Far as your Intake: Wilson Manifolds!!
They have about the best price I have seen for adding Injector bungs and Fuel rails to an Intake. They also have Throttle Bodies all the way up to 105mm for single blade and 2300cfm for a Dominator Style 4-bbl.
I don't know how well you know BondoBob (Bob Leeth) Bob's Pro Fab: But he was considering doing the same thing to his R5P7. He knows some Turbo experts local to him and they told him Boost would be no problem on that engine. The guys he knows deal more with Diesels and Tractor Pulls but they also run some diesels that have that same floating piston block configuration and Diesels Poor way more boost into them than a Gas engine would. 80-120psi
So all in all!!! Yes it can be built to do what you want and More. BUT your going to have to work with someone that knows what they are doing.
You might even look at bringing your RPMs out of the stratosphere to make the HP numbers your looking for.
Posted By: DakFink
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 10/05/12 02:37 PM
Looking through that Blowfish Build. If you could get a set of those Spacers they use around the cylinders YOU would be GOLDEN!!!
Throw all the boost at it you want.
Call them and see if and how Much???
Posted By: DemonDust
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 10/05/12 02:42 PM
Thanks for all the info Kenny
I'd need their cnc program to machine the block to fit those in. I doubt they'd send it out and I really don't feel like shipping a block across the country to have it done
Posted By: DakFink
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 10/05/12 04:35 PM
Quote:
Thanks for all the info Kenny
I'd need their cnc program to machine the block to fit those in. I doubt they'd send it out and I really don't feel like shipping a block across the country to have it done
Never hurts to give them a call and see what they say? They may surprise you. In a good way?!
Shipping your block to them may be a PITA but may be well worth it?
Posted By: Georg
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 10/05/12 06:01 PM
Quote:
Thanks for all the info Kenny
I'd need their cnc program to machine the block to fit those in. I doubt they'd send it out and I really don't feel like shipping a block across the country to have it done
I`v sended three or four e-mails to them askeing their help and tips about my R5/P7 motor build and got back almost nothing. Just very shallow information. To my last mail they never answered 
Seems like I ask top secret information
So I really doubt they give out any info about those CNC programs. If they are avaible I also would be interested to have them even if I need to pay for that some normal price
Posted By: onyxba
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 10/05/12 08:32 PM
Bob Sweeney from FX engines built the engine for the Blowfish. Nice guy to talk too with a lot of information on that engine.
Posted By: DakFink
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 10/06/12 01:04 PM
Quote:
Bob Sweeney from FX engines built the engine for the Blowfish. Nice guy to talk too with a lot of information on that engine.
THERE YOU GO!!!
I was pretty sure they didn't build that engine in house BUT wasn't 100% sure.
Most of the guys that build on that caliber don't have the time or facilities to build the core power-train stuff too. They source it out usually to shops that build on on the same level they do.
Posted By: dvw
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 10/06/12 02:25 PM
You want to street drive this thing? 1200 HP with ladder bars. It will spin,spin, spin and nothing else. Thousands of $ to putt around at 1/4 throttle. I've owned a boosted (very mild 600 hp) for over 25 years. Even with 320/15 drag radials tire spin from a roll is a given on the street at any speed in 1st or 2nd. I driven Dizuters mild build as well. It's right at the limit of usefulness as far as traction, and that's with a 2.76 gear. Trust me I like HP as much as the next guy. Just think out your plan before you leap.
Doug
Posted By: Mad Dart
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 10/08/12 01:55 AM
On the Fuel Pump questions. I would never run just 1 fuel pump with boost. If for some reason it shuts down it could be a very expensive lesson to learn. You want to OVER fuel pump it. Tons of guys on theturboforums.com use the Walbro GSL-392's. They pump some serious fuel and are good up to 600 Boosted EFI HP Each. They cost $100.00 each, are quieter than the Magnafuel, Aeromotive etc. They will lift fuel, act as a dead head if you are turning multiple pumps on at different times "Boost or NOS" etc and are Super Reliable. No Fuel Pump Controller needed!!
I am running Triplets on mine. Dual 10an feeds off the Fuel Cell to the Manifold with a single 10an to the regulator, 8an return. This set up is good for 1600 Boosted EFI HP and cost right at $500.00 for the manifolds, fittings etc to set up.
Posted By: bigtimeauto
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 10/08/12 03:18 AM
Quote:
On the Fuel Pump questions. I would never run just 1 fuel pump with boost. If for some reason it shuts down it could be a very expensive lesson to learn. You want to OVER fuel pump it. Tons of guys on theturboforums.com use the Walbro GSL-392's. They pump some serious fuel and are good up to 600 Boosted EFI HP Each. They cost $100.00 each, are quieter than the Magnafuel, Aeromotive etc. They will lift fuel, act as a dead head if you are turning multiple pumps on at different times "Boost or NOS" etc and are Super Reliable. No Fuel Pump Controller needed!!
I am running Triplets on mine. Dual 10an feeds off the Fuel Cell to the Manifold with a single 10an to the regulator, 8an return. This set up is good for 1600 Boosted EFI HP and cost right at $500.00 for the manifolds, fittings etc to set up.
i strongley disagree with this therory, Actually its opposite If you run one pump and it stops working your engine shuts off with no fuel to burn(been there done that)no harm no fowl. If you run multiple pumps and one stops working you take the chance of leaning the engine out and burning it up
Posted By: turbobitt
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 10/08/12 03:24 AM
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On the Fuel Pump questions. I would never run just 1 fuel pump with boost. If for some reason it shuts down it could be a very expensive lesson to learn. You want to OVER fuel pump it. Tons of guys on theturboforums.com use the Walbro GSL-392's. They pump some serious fuel and are good up to 600 Boosted EFI HP Each. They cost $100.00 each, are quieter than the Magnafuel, Aeromotive etc. They will lift fuel, act as a dead head if you are turning multiple pumps on at different times "Boost or NOS" etc and are Super Reliable. No Fuel Pump Controller needed!!
I am running Triplets on mine. Dual 10an feeds off the Fuel Cell to the Manifold with a single 10an to the regulator, 8an return. This set up is good for 1600 Boosted EFI HP and cost right at $500.00 for the manifolds, fittings etc to set up.
i strongley disagree with this therory, Actually its opposite If you run one pump and it stops working your engine shuts off with no fuel to burn(been there done that)no harm no fowl. If you run multiple pumps and one stops working you take the chance of leaning the engine out and burning it up
X2 = Single belt driven pump is the best if space permits.
Allan G.
Posted By: Mad Dart
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 10/08/12 04:24 PM
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On the Fuel Pump questions. I would never run just 1 fuel pump with boost. If for some reason it shuts down it could be a very expensive lesson to learn. You want to OVER fuel pump it. Tons of guys on theturboforums.com use the Walbro GSL-392's. They pump some serious fuel and are good up to 600 Boosted EFI HP Each. They cost $100.00 each, are quieter than the Magnafuel, Aeromotive etc. They will lift fuel, act as a dead head if you are turning multiple pumps on at different times "Boost or NOS" etc and are Super Reliable. No Fuel Pump Controller needed!!
I am running Triplets on mine. Dual 10an feeds off the Fuel Cell to the Manifold with a single 10an to the regulator, 8an return. This set up is good for 1600 Boosted EFI HP and cost right at $500.00 for the manifolds, fittings etc to set up.
i strongley disagree with this therory, Actually its opposite If you run one pump and it stops working your engine shuts off with no fuel to burn(been there done that)no harm no fowl. If you run multiple pumps and one stops working you take the chance of leaning the engine out and burning it up
X2 = Single belt driven pump is the best if space permits.
Allan G.
On a Street Strip car, what about the Semi Truck that is going to T Bone you because your car died in the middle of the intersection?? Very Expensive and you could loose your life in the process also. Just something else to ponder on.
Posted By: Fury Fan
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 10/08/12 04:34 PM
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If you run one pump and it stops working your engine shuts off with no fuel to burn(been there done that)no harm no fowl.
Was this a boosted or NA engine? Did it die under boost or ???
Posted By: bigtimeauto
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 10/08/12 06:29 PM
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If you run one pump and it stops working your engine shuts off with no fuel to burn(been there done that)no harm no fowl.
Was this a boosted or NA engine? Did it die under boost or ???
any fuel injected engine will just shut down
Posted By: bigtimeauto
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 10/08/12 06:31 PM
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On the Fuel Pump questions. I would never run just 1 fuel pump with boost. If for some reason it shuts down it could be a very expensive lesson to learn. You want to OVER fuel pump it. Tons of guys on theturboforums.com use the Walbro GSL-392's. They pump some serious fuel and are good up to 600 Boosted EFI HP Each. They cost $100.00 each, are quieter than the Magnafuel, Aeromotive etc. They will lift fuel, act as a dead head if you are turning multiple pumps on at different times "Boost or NOS" etc and are Super Reliable. No Fuel Pump Controller needed!!
I am running Triplets on mine. Dual 10an feeds off the Fuel Cell to the Manifold with a single 10an to the regulator, 8an return. This set up is good for 1600 Boosted EFI HP and cost right at $500.00 for the manifolds, fittings etc to set up.
i strongley disagree with this therory, Actually its opposite If you run one pump and it stops working your engine shuts off with no fuel to burn(been there done that)no harm no fowl. If you run multiple pumps and one stops working you take the chance of leaning the engine out and burning it up
X2 = Single belt driven pump is the best if space permits.
Allan G.
On a Street Strip car, what about the Semi Truck that is going to T Bone you because your car died in the middle of the intersection?? Very Expensive and you could loose your life in the process also. Just something else to ponder on.
seriously? What about that throttle cable your going to use, or even the ecm could go bad, or the battery wire could fall off or the trans could break or...............................
maybe you shouldn't pull out in front of anybody
Posted By: Fury Fan
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 10/08/12 06:39 PM
But what if a pump dies a 'slow' death, or output starts to quickly drop off, over a few seconds? This could cause a big problem for an engine under boost or N2O, not so much for an NA car. Mad Dart's idea would give an attentive driver a *small* window of opportunity to get off the throttle and maybe limp home. On the flip side, he has 2x as many pumps that might fail.
Not trying to be argumentative, just to understand. (I've had an EFI engine stutter for 2-3 secs due to insufficient fuel, while driving, and it didn't shut off).
Posted By: DakFink
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 10/08/12 07:24 PM
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But what if a pump dies a 'slow' death, or output starts to quickly drop off, over a few seconds? This could cause a big problem for an engine under boost or N2O, not so much for an NA car. Mad Dart's idea would give an attentive driver a *small* window of opportunity to get off the throttle and maybe limp home. On the flip side, he has 2x as many pumps that might fail.
Not trying to be argumentative, just to understand. (I've had an EFI engine stutter for 2-3 secs due to insufficient fuel, while driving, and it didn't shut off).
Insufficient Fuel= Getting Fuel but not enough which will eventually and very quickly generate a Lean condition Roaching a Piston, Head Gasket, etc etc ESPECIALLY so in a Boosted or N2O application.
Dead Fuel Pump= No Fuel, So at worst it shuts down and you're walking home with the expense of replacing a Fuel Pump not a toasted engine.
To cover just about all the WHAT IF scenarios that have been brought up. Use a Mechanical/Belt driven pump bigger than you really need. It's either going to work or it isn't. NONE of the Starting to Fail or cutting out which electric pumps like to do.
Posted By: turbobitt
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 10/08/12 07:47 PM
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But what if a pump dies a 'slow' death, or output starts to quickly drop off, over a few seconds? This could cause a big problem for an engine under boost or N2O, not so much for an NA car. Mad Dart's idea would give an attentive driver a *small* window of opportunity to get off the throttle and maybe limp home. On the flip side, he has 2x as many pumps that might fail.
Not trying to be argumentative, just to understand. (I've had an EFI engine stutter for 2-3 secs due to insufficient fuel, while driving, and it didn't shut off).
Insufficient Fuel= Getting Fuel but not enough which will eventually and very quickly generate a Lean condition Roaching a Piston, Head Gasket, etc etc ESPECIALLY so in a Boosted or N2O application.
Dead Fuel Pump= No Fuel, So at worst it shuts down and you're walking home with the expense of replacing a Fuel Pump not a toasted engine.
To cover just about all the WHAT IF scenarios that have been brought up. Use a Mechanical/Belt driven pump bigger than you really need. It's either going to work or it isn't. NONE of the Starting to Fail or cutting out which electric pumps like to do.
I think the bottom line is that you need to be smart on the data logging capability and have a channel dedicated to fuel pressure. I was able to identify a weak pump on the dyno and stopped upping the boost until I replaced the pump.
Allan G.
Posted By: bigtimeauto
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 10/08/12 11:55 PM
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I think the bottom line is that you need to be smart
Allan G.
I fixed it for you, this just about covers it.
Posted By: JackGTX440
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 10/09/12 01:08 AM
I totally agree with first choice being belt/mechanical, then one big single electric as my second choice. For the reasons stated above.
Posted By: DakFink
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 10/09/12 03:08 AM
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Quote:
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But what if a pump dies a 'slow' death, or output starts to quickly drop off, over a few seconds? This could cause a big problem for an engine under boost or N2O, not so much for an NA car. Mad Dart's idea would give an attentive driver a *small* window of opportunity to get off the throttle and maybe limp home. On the flip side, he has 2x as many pumps that might fail.
Not trying to be argumentative, just to understand. (I've had an EFI engine stutter for 2-3 secs due to insufficient fuel, while driving, and it didn't shut off).
Yes a Fuel Pressure gauge is one of your most crucial gauges when running boost and/or EFI.
Insufficient Fuel= Getting Fuel but not enough which will eventually and very quickly generate a Lean condition Roaching a Piston, Head Gasket, etc etc ESPECIALLY so in a Boosted or N2O application.
Dead Fuel Pump= No Fuel, So at worst it shuts down and you're walking home with the expense of replacing a Fuel Pump not a toasted engine.
To cover just about all the WHAT IF scenarios that have been brought up. Use a Mechanical/Belt driven pump bigger than you really need. It's either going to work or it isn't. NONE of the Starting to Fail or cutting out which electric pumps like to do.
I think the bottom line is that you need to be smart on the data logging capability and have a channel dedicated to fuel pressure. I was able to identify a weak pump on the dyno and stopped upping the boost until I replaced the pump.
Allan G.
Posted By: Mad Dart
Re: Turbo Build for the duster info please - 10/09/12 10:25 PM
Yeah and I should just stop breathing too. I know.
I am running EFI so my ECU will pick up the lean condition and the safety parameters I have set will go into effect at that time if my FP or Lamda safety feature's are triggered.
First pump is on at start up. Second pump joins the show at 4psi, third pump comes in at 8psi or NOS Hit, whichever don't matter. Of course I can change these setting whenever or however I want in any configuration I choose. This is just an example.
I do like the Belt Driven Pump Idea but I have no room.
I didn't post what I am doing to start a war but I guess it has??
