Moparts

ladder bar set-up ????

Posted By: 67mprfan

ladder bar set-up ???? - 09/03/12 01:43 AM

Hi guys who ladder bar set-up would you use and why, my car is currently set-up with a leaf link system and is already backhalfed planning ahead for winter upgrade......unless someone can tell me how to get this thing to 60ft better 1.50 is the best,,,,,,,Thanks....btw the way use leaf springs or coilovers

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Posted By: sgcuda

Re: ladder bar set-up ???? - 09/03/12 02:22 AM

I really like the newest design Outlaw bars. Much thicker lower bar, more adjustability for pinion angle changes. I went from S/S leafs with spring clamps and a snubber, to ladder bar and coilovers. Best change I ever made.
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: ladder bar set-up ???? - 09/03/12 06:11 AM

My car(3450 lb Duster, 727 with the Mopar 2.77 low gear set, Dana 60 wth 4.10 gears with Strange Engr 35 spline spool and axels,Oregon pump gas through the mufflers with the air cleaner on ) ran a 1.394 60 ft and 10.01 at 132. MPH and another 1.401 with a 10.04 at 131.9 MPH this weekend with 1/4 Max ladder bars and Strange Engr. double adjustable coil overs with 150 lb springs, extension set at 5 clicks form dead soft and 4 clicks on the compression, 10.5x31x15W M/T ET drag slicks, there is more left in it, I need to test it some more and try the different settings on the shocks on a good track
Posted By: Wicked49670dart

Re: ladder bar set-up ???? - 09/03/12 06:19 AM

My car 3400# 70 Dart, 1.402 60ft, 6.28@109.12 9.92@133 on super stock springs, Alston double ajustable ladder bars, 83/4, comp engineering 3-way shocks with housing floaters..
Posted By: poppaj

Re: ladder bar set-up ???? - 09/03/12 07:11 AM

Our car 1.28-60' 9.57@140+ competition eng. ladder bars with strange coil overs.

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Posted By: tboomer

Re: ladder bar set-up ???? - 09/03/12 02:18 PM

What is the rest of your combo? My leaf springs were shot and I was thinking of going to the Cal-Trac system under my 64. Jimmy Rickman talked me out of that and advised the Alston ladder bar setup. He did a great job of putting it in and I am very happy with it. My best 60' was a 1.385 and it usually runs in the 1.40-1.41 range...
Posted By: 67mprfan

Re: ladder bar set-up ???? - 09/04/12 01:48 AM

Quote:

What is the rest of your combo?

440 .055 over stock stroke
indy ez-1 heads and intake w/1050carb
660 lift cam 1.5 rockers
727 8in converter done by lenny 5400 stall
d60 4.56 gears 32 x 14x 15 tires
weight 3030 with me in it
best so far is 10.51 if i can get 60ft downs i be happy

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Posted By: duster408

Re: ladder bar set-up ???? - 09/04/12 02:04 AM

Id definitely go with the ladder bar and coil over setup. The 60's will be more consistent. I have a 2900 lb duster small block with 1.30 60 ft. My 60s vary about .004 in a day
Posted By: 67mprfan

Re: ladder bar set-up ???? - 09/04/12 02:09 AM

Quote:

Id definitely go with the ladder bar and coil over setup. The 60's will be more consistent. I have a 2900 lb duster small block with 1.30 60 ft. My 60s vary about .004 in a day




who's set up are you using?

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Posted By: duster408

Re: ladder bar set-up ???? - 09/04/12 02:30 AM

Competition engineering ladder link with qa1 coilovers.
Posted By: dartman366

Re: ladder bar set-up ???? - 09/04/12 03:20 AM

S&W double adjustable ladder bars and QA-1 single adjustable coil overs,, mid to upper 1.30 60ft's, at 3170# good price and good quality and they just plain work.
Posted By: 67mprfan

Re: ladder bar set-up ???? - 09/04/12 03:23 AM

Quote:

Competition engineering ladder link with qa1 coilovers.




i been looking at theirs and chris alston, since my car has already been back halved im thinking it shouldn't be to hard to change over

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Posted By: 67mprfan

Re: ladder bar set-up ???? - 09/04/12 03:57 AM

here a couple of pics of what i have now

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Posted By: 67mprfan

Re: ladder bar set-up ???? - 09/04/12 03:58 AM

another 1

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Posted By: 67mprfan

Re: ladder bar set-up ???? - 09/04/12 04:00 AM

nutter 1

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Posted By: 67mprfan

Re: ladder bar set-up ???? - 09/04/12 04:01 AM

last 1

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Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: ladder bar set-up ???? - 09/04/12 07:24 PM

After looking at your pictures I would convert it to a 4 link with coil overs and a panhard bar or diagonal link to locate the rear end on the side to side location. You will see a gain on the coil overs versus your current set up, make sure and buy a good set of externally adjsutable coil overs with long enough travel to make the car ride and respond well to the changes, like many things in life, longer is better than shorter My coil overs are 16.5 inches end to end extended with around seven inches of travel, mine is a street car so keep that in mind. Mine go through the trunk floor for the upper mounts and are mounted onto the roll bar down bars in the trunk, no bending or signs of stress to them so far, six yeas on the street and strip, 300 to 400 passes and 1300 street miles or so O I use to drive another Duster with single adjustable AVO brand coil over shocks that had three inches of travel it was a foot brake car and it would top the rear shocks out on the starting line when foot stalling it above 3000 RPM My message is to get coil over shocks with enough travel to use on your car I have 150 rate springs, some racers like 130 lb rate on there coil over cars, mine work fine for me, maybe they should be softer IHTHs
Posted By: sixpackgut

Re: ladder bar set-up ???? - 09/04/12 08:19 PM

i dont know jack sh%$ but the way i see your setup, it looks like an endless instant center. that is the same suspension pro stocks used in the 70s and it worked. i would lower the top bar a hole, maybe raise the spring eye a hole and work with what you have before spending the money on changing it. your car is not really that fast plus you have a huge tire on the back. i dont think ladders would pick you up that much
Posted By: HardcoreB

Re: ladder bar set-up ???? - 09/04/12 10:00 PM

Quote:

i dont know jack sh%$ but the way i see your setup, it looks like an endless instant center. that is the same suspension pro stocks used in the 70s and it worked. i would lower the top bar a hole, maybe raise the spring eye a hole and work with what you have before spending the money on changing it. your car is not really that fast plus you have a huge tire on the back. i dont think ladders would pick you up that much




Well I read the original post this AM and I was thinking the exact same thing!...EVERYTHING Sixpac said. You have some decent pieces in that motor and at 3000lbs with driver SOMETHING ELSE is wrong. If everything looks safe under the car e.g.- weld integrity etc...I would only put a good pair of shocks on it. Maybe D.A. Strange without the coilovers or even the adj Rancheros. That MPH reflects about flywheel 525 HP. I'd suggest some of the more frequent oversites;
1)Hoodscoop and/or sealing problem
2)Carb improperly adjusted
3)What sparkplugs and gap AND wires? AND ignition?
You'd be surprised how much ET/MPH you can loose from those 3 alone.
Posted By: VernMotor

Re: ladder bar set-up ???? - 09/04/12 10:48 PM

If you ask me.. the stall on that converter is kind of high. 5400 for a big block car..
Posted By: sixpackgut

Re: ladder bar set-up ???? - 09/04/12 11:14 PM

Quote:

If you ask me.. the stall on that converter is kind of high. 5400 for a big block car..




thats what mine is and i have a 493 with EZ heads. smaller cam than the OP
Posted By: 70Dart499

Re: ladder bar set-up ???? - 09/04/12 11:27 PM

IMO if the ladder bar setup is in the budget, do it. I recently converted my Dart from SS springs to coil overs and DA shocks, and my 60' and my ET immediately dropped 2 tenths, and that was with a carb issue that caused the engine to run like crap. The car launches so much better with the ladders also, its smooth and straight every time. If you have the ladder bars done, have them done by a reputable shop that can adjust them properly before you take the car to the track and you probably wont really need to touch them unless you WANT to tweak on them. If you go to the ladders, you won't regret it. JMHO
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: ladder bar set-up ???? - 09/05/12 01:55 AM

Quote:

If you ask me.. the stall on that converter is kind of high. 5400 for a big block car..


My current T/A 8 inch SS converter flashes to 5800 to 6000 RPM depending on the track elevation and weather, I shift it at or close to 7000 RPM and it drops back to 5800 to 6000 RPM according to the VDO Extreme playback tach. My old ten inch custom built converter flashed to 4400 RPM foot stalling and it would drop back more to around 4800 to 5200 RPM depending on the shift RPM, the 8 inch is .2 ET and 2 MPH faster than the ten inch was with no other changes I have a T/A 9 inch SS converter I will try next, test, test and test some more
Posted By: VernMotor

Re: ladder bar set-up ???? - 09/05/12 02:05 AM

Wow I do not have as much HP . my 9" PTC flashes 4400 been thinking about bumping it up 200-400 rpms. but I would never go that high
Posted By: 67mprfan

Re: ladder bar set-up ???? - 09/06/12 06:11 PM

Quote:

Quote:

i dont know jack sh%$ but the way i see your setup, it looks like an endless instant center. that is the same suspension pro stocks used in the 70s and it worked. i would lower the top bar a hole, maybe raise the spring eye a hole and work with what you have before spending the money on changing it. your car is not really that fast plus you have a huge tire on the back. i dont think ladders would pick you up that much




Well I read the original post this AM and I was thinking the exact same thing!...EVERYTHING Sixpac said. You have some decent pieces in that motor and at 3000lbs with driver SOMETHING ELSE is wrong. If everything looks safe under the car e.g.- weld integrity etc...I would only put a good pair of shocks on it. Maybe D.A. Strange without the coilovers or even the adj Rancheros. That MPH reflects about flywheel 525 HP. I'd suggest some of the more frequent oversites;
1)Hoodscoop and/or sealing problem
2)Carb improperly adjusted
3)What sparkplugs and gap AND wires? AND ignition?
You'd be surprised how much ET/MPH you can loose from those 3 alone.






yeah there is not much room between hoodscoop and carb
plugs ngk-8s with taylor 8 wires msd 7al box
carb is 1050 no pv 96-98 jets
because it's been so hot really haven't play with tuning engine anymore hopefully i can now it's cooling off

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Posted By: 67mprfan

Re: ladder bar set-up ???? - 09/06/12 06:17 PM

Quote:

i dont know jack sh%$ but the way i see your setup, it looks like an endless instant center. that is the same suspension pro stocks used in the 70s and it worked. i would lower the top bar a hole, maybe raise the spring eye a hole and work with what you have before spending the money on changing it. your car is not really that fast plus you have a huge tire on the back. i dont think ladders would pick you up that much




I'm looking at trying moving the bars around to see if it helps don't know if you can tell by the pics but 1 arm is at a different angle than the other so more t n t is definatly in my plans

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Posted By: TheBlackCar

Re: ladder bar set-up ???? - 09/06/12 06:46 PM

My Duster has a leaf-link in it, but it differs a bit from what you have there. My upper housing bracket has 2 holes and the front is a modified stock framerail. The car doesn't have near the tire you do and 60'd in the 1.36-1.38 range at Norwalk, 1.40 everywhere else with a tired ole motor at 3150#.

As mentioned, I would address some other things before changing the suspension.

Good Luck
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: ladder bar set-up ???? - 09/06/12 06:47 PM

Quote:


I'm looking at trying moving the bars around to see if it helps don't know if you can tell by the pics but 1 arm is at a different angle than the other so more t n t is definatly in my plans


I would move both of your attachments down one hole Do you know the intersecting points(instant center maybe) of the current set up? If not look up how to compute the instant center of your set up and calculate it BTW, I seem to remember the reason the old Pro racers got away from the ladder link rear suspension was that they where breaking the main leaf at the front spring eyes Not good Is your leaf spring mounts to the rear end housing a floater? It doesn't look like it is the reason I'm asking, I'm not even sure if it should be or not
Posted By: TheBlackCar

Re: ladder bar set-up ???? - 09/06/12 07:40 PM

Cab, the lower mount is a housing pivot, as it should be. And you are correct about the stress on the spring eye, make sure it is clamped and keep an eye on it.
Posted By: 67mprfan

Re: ladder bar set-up ???? - 09/07/12 05:26 PM

Quote:

Quote:


Is your leaf spring mounts to the rear end housing a floater? It doesn't look like it is the reason I'm asking, I'm not even sure if it should be or not




No does not look like it
was going to take the car out but they are calling for rain so guess i have to wait beside i didn't get a chance to put the other set of slicks on

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Posted By: 67mprfan

Re: ladder bar set-up ???? - 09/07/12 05:32 PM

Quote:

My Duster has a leaf-link in it, but it differs a bit from what you have there. My upper housing bracket has 2 holes and the front is a modified stock framerail. The car doesn't have near the tire you do and 60'd in the 1.36-1.38 range at Norwalk, 1.40 everywhere else with a tired ole motor at 3150#.

As mentioned, I would address some other things before changing the suspension.

Good Luck





My plan is try a 950 with a 1in spacer to see how that helps if you can see the pic the 1050 sits pretty high in the scoop
a cam change is in the winter project plans for sure

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