Moparts

NOT HAPPY

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

NOT HAPPY - 07/08/12 04:14 PM

I'm not happy with the engine in the Rampage... I
pulled the plugs today and see some oil on a few
but its also dog fat.. I cant find my compression gauge
(I think I loaned it out but cant remember) but I
will do a leak down today... it has a couple of oil
leaks that I need to address... one of them is the timing
cover at the pan/block.. plus I need to pull the oil
pan to fix a tiny crack at the corner where I screwed
up and lifted the back with the floor jack(stupid me)...
but if I dont like what I see on a few test I'll pull
the engine/trans today..... I just need to figure
out where the oil in the cyls is coming from....
BUMMER........ ok... rant off
Posted By: DusterDave

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/08/12 04:36 PM

Fingers crossed that its something simple and cheap to fix.
Posted By: cheapstreetdustr

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/08/12 04:45 PM

wet cyl walls...
Posted By: dartman366

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/08/12 04:54 PM

If I remember correct Mike the most of the smoke was coming from the right bank when you reved it a little in front of the garage door but both were hazing some blue.
Posted By: Crizila

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/08/12 05:42 PM

Step at a time and don't go to the worst case scenerio right away. Test as much as you can first to narrow done the posibilities.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/08/12 05:54 PM

Quote:

If I remember correct Mike the most of the smoke was coming from the right bank when you reved it a little in front of the garage door but both were hazing some blue.



Most of that smoke in front of the shop was from
a oil leak getting sucked in at the ball socket on
the exhaust joint... I fixed that and 90% of the smoke
is gone but the plugs show a bit of oil and soot
from fuel and oil.... I'm starting with a leak down
then I'll pull the intake... if its farther in than
that I'll pull the engine
Posted By: dartman366

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/08/12 06:25 PM

Quote:

Quote:

If I remember correct Mike the most of the smoke was coming from the right bank when you reved it a little in front of the garage door but both were hazing some blue.



Most of that smoke in front of the shop was from
a oil leak getting sucked in at the ball socket on
the exhaust joint... I fixed that and 90% of the smoke
is gone but the plugs show a bit of oil and soot
from fuel and oil.... I'm starting with a leak down
then I'll pull the intake... if its farther in than
that I'll pull the engine


Gotcha'
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/08/12 06:39 PM

Not good... looks like the rings are junk.... I did
leak down on 2 cyls.... one was 40% leak the other
was 60%..... engines gotta come out... I can only think
that they got fuel soaked... but it fired up instantly...
I can hear the air dumping into the crank case
Oh well.... do-do happens... this is my FIRST engine
that I ever had to tear back down... I'm pissed at
myself
Posted By: CHAPPER

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/08/12 06:52 PM

Without re-reading your thread,,,was this a recent build or one that has been setting for awhile?
Posted By: Red440

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/08/12 06:53 PM

that sucks sorry for ya buddy, hope it goes smooth the rest of the way, that is one sweet ride
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/08/12 07:03 PM

Quote:

Without re-reading your thread,,,was this a recent build or one that has been setting for awhile?



Its was fresh.... but sat a couple of months but I
primed it a few times while turning it over... I
think this time its going on the dyno
Posted By: CHAPPER

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/08/12 07:11 PM

New pistons or used?? What I am getting at, is, are the ring lands/grooves posibly too wide from past use?
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/08/12 07:27 PM

Quote:

New pistons or used?? What I am getting at, is, are the ring lands/grooves posibly too wide from past use?



New pistons, rings, bearings, rods, crank all that
stuff was new
Posted By: Crizila

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/08/12 07:28 PM

Quote:

Not good... looks like the rings are junk.... I did
leak down on 2 cyls.... one was 40% leak the other
was 60%..... engines gotta come out... I can only think
that they got fuel soaked... but it fired up instantly...
I can hear the air dumping into the crank case
Oh well.... do-do happens... this is my FIRST engine
that I ever had to tear back down... I'm pissed at
myself


Fuel soaked is a good probability - and it's one of the reasons I don't use WD40 on my piston /ring installs. Too easy to wash off if you are on the rich side or the motor doesn't fire right away.
Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/08/12 07:32 PM

Quote:

Quote:

New pistons or used?? What I am getting at, is, are the ring lands/grooves posibly too wide from past use?



New pistons, rings, bearings, rods, crank all that
stuff was new


I`d lean it out and go beat on it for a few and see if the sealing improves............done it before w/non detergent oil and it worked but maybe yours has different issues.........
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/08/12 07:38 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

New pistons or used?? What I am getting at, is, are the ring lands/grooves posibly too wide from past use?



New pistons, rings, bearings, rods, crank all that
stuff was new


I`d lean it out and go beat on it for a few and see if the sealing improves............done it before w/non detergent oil and it worked but maybe yours has different issues.........



I'm gonna put the rockers back on and lean it out
and try... sure cant hurt anything now
Posted By: StrokerAspen

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/08/12 07:48 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

New pistons or used?? What I am getting at, is, are the ring lands/grooves posibly too wide from past use?



New pistons, rings, bearings, rods, crank all that
stuff was new


I`d lean it out and go beat on it for a few and see if the sealing improves............done it before w/non detergent oil and it worked but maybe yours has different issues.........



I'm gonna put the rockers back on and lean it out
and try... sure cant hurt anything now




The W5 434 we just put together was using oil a bit. We did a couple WOT pulls on the engine dyno, and it sealed up. Like you say, it's worth a try!

-Kenny
Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/08/12 07:50 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

New pistons or used?? What I am getting at, is, are the ring lands/grooves posibly too wide from past use?



New pistons, rings, bearings, rods, crank all that
stuff was new


I`d lean it out and go beat on it for a few and see if the sealing improves............done it before w/non detergent oil and it worked but maybe yours has different issues.........



I'm gonna put the rockers back on and lean it out
and try... sure cant hurt anything now


Can`t hurt.............
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/08/12 07:58 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

New pistons or used?? What I am getting at, is, are the ring lands/grooves posibly too wide from past use?



New pistons, rings, bearings, rods, crank all that
stuff was new


I`d lean it out and go beat on it for a few and see if the sealing improves............done it before w/non detergent oil and it worked but maybe yours has different issues.........



I'm gonna put the rockers back on and lean it out
and try... sure cant hurt anything now




The W5 434 we just put together was using oil a bit. We did a couple WOT pulls on the engine dyno, and it sealed up. Like you say, it's worth a try!

-Kenny



I;ll lean it out and try loading it on the brakes...
if it works... great, if not.... it comes out
Posted By: AAR-B4

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/08/12 08:06 PM

Make sure the crankcase can breathe.
Leaking timing cover makes me wonder. Is it leaking or being pushed out with crankcase pressure?
Posted By: d7cook

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/08/12 08:55 PM

I had a 440 with a tunnel ram where the rear carb was dripping fuel into the 6/8 ports and I didn't know it. I leak down tested and thought I had a blown head gasket the results where so bad. 60% on one and even lower on the other. I pulled the head only to find fuel in the cylinders. I put it back together, fixed the carb and the cylinders tested high 90's after warming it up. I'd say fix your problem and run it then test over again.
Posted By: Hot 340

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/08/12 09:20 PM

yep.. load the rings against the walls with some full throttle short shifting...did wonders for another engine I had with sealing issues
Posted By: Red440

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/08/12 09:21 PM

a lot of good advice on here, plus a warmed up engine always test better than a cold one good luck
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/08/12 09:45 PM

Quote:

Make sure the crankcase can breathe.
Leaking timing cover makes me wonder. Is it leaking or being pushed out with crankcase pressure?



Its a small leak but it has 2 breathers so its venting
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/08/12 10:17 PM

Well I put it back together, leaned it out and have
been loading it against the brakes.... it seems
like its coming around but I dont want to kill the
brakes so tomorrow I'll run it on the road a few
times...this last time I was loading it I could stay
in the shop a lot longer with the fumes and it seems
like a lot less blue color... so it MIGHT be working
Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/08/12 10:29 PM

I`ll tell ya this Mike, it has worked more than once for others and myself and if it`s not glazed up as they say it might come around for ya. Do u have a wideband on your car?
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/08/12 10:32 PM

Quote:

I`ll tell ya this Mike, it has worked more than once for others and myself and if it`s not glazed up as they say it might come around for ya. Do u have a wideband on your car?



I have one but its not in there yet
Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/08/12 10:41 PM

Was just curious and thinking that if you had one it would at least get you close in terms of leaning it out but NOT hurting it........
Posted By: Big Squeeze

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/08/12 11:34 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I`ll tell ya this Mike, it has worked more than once for others and myself and if it`s not glazed up as they say it might come around for ya. Do u have a wideband on your car?



I have one but its not in there yet




Here's another case where the O2 sensor would have helped, : but Stevie Wonder could see in the video it was pig fat and idled extremely rough from it...as others have said, I'd clean the idle up and hammer the piss out of it...
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/09/12 12:00 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I`ll tell ya this Mike, it has worked more than once for others and myself and if it`s not glazed up as they say it might come around for ya. Do u have a wideband on your car?



I have one but its not in there yet




Here's another case where the O2 sensor would have helped, : but Stevie Wonder could see in the video it was pig fat and idled extremely rough from it...as others have said, I'd clean the idle up and hammer the piss out of it...



Been doing that.. this engine started out with a
few issues... oil leaks that caused MOST of the oil
at the tail pipe, carb was fat but in the beginning
I didnt think it was that bad.. I should have been
loading it harder.... I'll find out tomorrow how
it turns out... I wasnt paying that much attention
to the engine with so many other things to work on
and I should have been... with my race engines I
just set the timing and carb then hit the track and
that seats the rings... but this is a street engine
Posted By: smokinwoody

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/09/12 03:29 PM

you'll get it all sorted out...

heres a pic for inspiration..

Attached picture 7284196-PICKUP.jpg
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/09/12 04:04 PM

I see today that the squirters are way too big...
37 pri and 40 sec... I'm gonna run into town to get
some fresh oil... the stuff in there has too much
fuel in it... but I'm gonna pull the pan first and
fix the issues there
Posted By: Moparnut426

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/09/12 04:29 PM

The 408 in the demon acted like it didnt want to seat the rings, and the more I drove it and the more I beat on it the better it is. Its great now, and I havent looked back, well to see the tatoos on the highways, but thats it LOL.
Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/09/12 04:34 PM

Quote:

I see today that the squirters are way too big...
37 pri and 40 sec... I'm gonna run into town to get
some fresh oil... the stuff in there has too much
fuel in it... but I'm gonna pull the pan first and
fix the issues there


Good luck Mike.............I`ve never personally gone faster w/bigger squirters although each car is different I run 28`s ft. and rear and my carb came w/35`s........I`d also hook up the wide band cos when I took my dart on it`s maiden run I was a bit lean so I jetted accordingly and never looked back.
Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/10/12 07:08 PM

So what did you find out Mike?
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/10/12 07:40 PM

Quote:

So what did you find out Mike?



Really nothing yet... I pulled the pan and fixed a
couple of leaks and checked a couple of bearings...
they looked fine so I reinstalled the pan... I'll
fire it up tomorrow... the exhaust systems has alot
of oil in it so I'm gonna try running it about 1/2
hour at 180* temp at about 2500 Rs to see if it burns
out... I also put some smaller squirter and jets to
stock settings...
I loaned my O2 meter out so I should get it back in
a few days ... but I think it should be fine now
on the carb
Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/10/12 08:00 PM

Hope it works out 4 ya...........
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/11/12 06:56 PM

Well after running it at 2500 rpm for a 1/2 hour today
I decided to go ahead and pull the engine.... I'm
just not happy with it.... I'll prep it today and pull
it tomorrow....... I just dont feel like working today...
it only takes about 1 hour to have it out and on the
ground then separate the trans..... I'm sorta bummed
but it is what it is... I just feel like a A$$ for
not catching it in the first place
Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/11/12 07:24 PM

Sorry to hear this Mike..............at least you can do the work yourself, find and fix the problems and enjoy the ride when it`s all done. Good luck with it.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/11/12 07:28 PM

Thanks Dom.... its no big deal but when I get done I
want it to be right... I dont want to have to pull the
engine a month or two down the road... so I'll take
care of it now
Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/11/12 09:08 PM

We all jump the gun sometimes and get bit just part of the game I guess. You`ll get it sorted out and be on the road in no time.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/13/12 04:47 PM

Well so far I havent found the smoking gun(no pun intended)...
I have the engine on the stand, all the exhaust ports
are oil saturated, pulled the intake and it was sealing
fine and all the intake runner are clean... I pulled
the rockers and the hold downs(TD rockers) so I
have to remove the hold downs to get to the head
bolts...will pull the heads next
Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/13/12 04:49 PM

Valve stem seals maybe? Did you grind through em when porting? Just ideas............
Posted By: DJVCuda

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/13/12 04:51 PM

Quote:

Valve stem seals maybe? Did you grind through em when porting? Just ideas............



oil would be in the port at that point - no?

what was done in the honing process? Plateau?
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/13/12 04:56 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Valve stem seals maybe? Did you grind through em when porting? Just ideas............



oil would be in the port at that point - no?

what was done in the honing process? Plateau?



I had the block bushed a few years ago and honed
with plates... it sat for a few years so all I did was
run a ball deglazer in it real quick then cleaned it
and started the normal assm work
Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/13/12 04:58 PM

Thinking maybe ex. porting cut through............If the ring seal went south maybe?...........I know some don`t run ex. valve stem seals...........
Posted By: greendart408

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/13/12 05:04 PM

Mr P, do you have holes drilled in the heads for oil drainback in the valve spring area? Or slots ground in them so the oil will drain?
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/13/12 05:20 PM

Quote:

Mr P, do you have holes drilled in the heads for oil drainback in the valve spring area? Or slots ground in them so the oil will drain?



Yes... each spring pocket is cut to drain oil....
Dom I ran seals on all the valves
Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/13/12 05:24 PM

I`m not the best at this stuff so hopefully you find it.............
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/13/12 05:28 PM

Quote:

I`m not the best at this stuff so hopefully you find it.............



LOL.... I guess I'm not either... otherwise I wouldnt
be in this spot.... breaks over.. I'll pull the heads
Posted By: WheelsUp73

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/13/12 05:37 PM

What heads are you running? Mabe the second ring was installed upside down? Just a guess. My eddy heads were ported into the rocker hold down bolt holes and it pulled oil in the cylinder past the hold down bolts.I replaced the bolts with studs and lock tite them into place and no more smoke but I had oil getting into the intake manifold. Hope you find the problem!
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/13/12 07:37 PM

Quote:

What heads are you running? Mabe the second ring was installed upside down? Just a guess. My eddy heads were ported into the rocker hold down bolt holes and it pulled oil in the cylinder past the hold down bolts.I replaced the bolts with studs and lock tite them into place and no more smoke but I had oil getting into the intake manifold. Hope you find the problem!



W-5 heads..... I'm calling it wasted out rings...
there is almost no cross hatch left in the bores...
they look shiney... the bit of oil thats on the pistons
and exhaust valve(some on the intakes but not near
as much) is sticky and can be wiped right off with
a paper towel
Posted By: Moparnut426

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/13/12 09:42 PM

Wasted, or Washed from fuel?

WOW, that didnt take long for those to do that. I guess [Edited by Moparts - Family Friendly Site - Keep it clean] happends and the bad rings are still better than windows in the pan.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/13/12 10:35 PM

Quote:

Wasted, or Washed from fuel?

WOW, that didnt take long for those to do that. I guess [Edited by Moparts - Family Friendly Site - Keep it clean] happends and the bad rings are still better than windows in the pan.



Yes... wasted and washed out... all the above and
all I can think of is they were washed due to a heavy
amount of fuel... tomorrow I'm going out to Milan
with Randy(labrat) so it can sit till Sunday... I
have the pan off so I'll pull the pistons Sunday...
order parts on Monday
Posted By: BBLM23

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/13/12 10:50 PM

Quote:

not happy...





Three pages and no one said which dwarf are you?!
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/13/12 10:53 PM

Quote:

Quote:

not happy...





Three pages and no one said which dwarf are you?!



Is there a dwarf named stupid... that would be me
Posted By: Moparnut426

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/13/12 11:02 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

not happy...





Three pages and no one said which dwarf are you?!



Is there a dwarf named stupid... that would be me




I wouldnt call ya stupid, but I think there is a Dopy,

LOL sorry, could be a little below the belt.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/13/12 11:07 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

not happy...





Three pages and no one said which dwarf are you?!



Is there a dwarf named stupid... that would be me




I wouldnt call ya stupid, but I think there is a Dopy,

LOL sorry, could be a little below the belt.



Thats close enough...lol
Posted By: 87MO DAK

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/14/12 12:07 AM

Don't feel bad ... I just went around the block with the hood pin's off.
Thrashed windshield ,cowl,and fiberglass hood .. I was just washing it
and forgot about the pins ...live and learn .
Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/14/12 12:10 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

not happy...





Three pages and no one said which dwarf are you?!



Is there a dwarf named stupid... that would be me




I'm lazy.
Posted By: 87MO DAK

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/14/12 12:36 AM

Posted By: 87MO DAK

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/14/12 12:40 AM

1
I hate the fact that I have to replace a windshield in something
that sits .

Attached picture 7291351-photo(1).JPG
Posted By: Chris'sBarracuda

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/16/12 04:05 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Wasted, or Washed from fuel?

WOW, that didnt take long for those to do that. I guess [Edited by Moparts - Family Friendly Site - Keep it clean] happends and the bad rings are still better than windows in the pan.



Yes... wasted and washed out... all the above and
all I can think of is they were washed due to a heavy
amount of fuel... tomorrow I'm going out to Milan
with Randy(labrat) so it can sit till Sunday... I
have the pan off so I'll pull the pistons Sunday...
order parts on Monday






Just saw this..

When I worked at a propane carb place years ago.. (IMPCO) Ak Miller did some really cool stuff..

Anyway, they all seated their rings on the engine stand with transmission fluid and Bon-Ami..

Since propane would not ever seat the rings, they did it that way on every engine..

Some were turbocharged too.. All of Ak Millers stuff was.. He did the Pikes Peak stuff.

So you might want to try that, then dyno it..

You just mix it up and wipe it in the cylinders and keep turning it over..

I've re-seated rings that way before on older engines..


Chris..
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/16/12 04:19 AM

Just saw this..

When I worked at a propane carb place years ago.. (IMPCO) Ak Miller did some really cool stuff..

Anyway, they all seated their rings on the engine stand with transmission fluid and Bon-Ami..

Since propane would not ever seat the rings, they did it that way on every engine..

Some were turbocharged too.. All of Ak Millers stuff was.. He did the Pikes Peak stuff.

So you might want to try that, then dyno it..

You just mix it up and wipe it in the cylinders and keep turning it over..

I've re-seated rings that way before on older engines..


Chris..



I've got it all torn down and started to ball hone
it but I think I'll take it over to the machine shop
and have them hone it since most of the cross hatch
is gone... gotta order rings tomorrow... I want to
have it back together next weekend and maybe back
in the car by Sunday.... I gotta figure out what to
use to clean the oil out of my exhaust system....
dont want the oil in there and see smoke again
Posted By: Moparnut426

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/16/12 01:57 PM

Quote:

Just saw this..

When I worked at a propane carb place years ago.. (IMPCO) Ak Miller did some really cool stuff..

Anyway, they all seated their rings on the engine stand with transmission fluid and Bon-Ami..

Since propane would not ever seat the rings, they did it that way on every engine..

Some were turbocharged too.. All of Ak Millers stuff was.. He did the Pikes Peak stuff.

So you might want to try that, then dyno it..

You just mix it up and wipe it in the cylinders and keep turning it over..

I've re-seated rings that way before on older engines..


Chris..



I've got it all torn down and started to ball hone
it but I think I'll take it over to the machine shop
and have them hone it since most of the cross hatch
is gone... gotta order rings tomorrow... I want to
have it back together next weekend and maybe back
in the car by Sunday.... I gotta figure out what to
use to clean the oil out of my exhaust system....
dont want the oil in there and see smoke again




Use a propane torch, and an air gun to blow through the exhaust. Ive dont this on the stacks of a diesel tractor.
Posted By: Crizila

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/16/12 03:30 PM

So what's the bottom line to this thread? Fuel wash down?
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/16/12 03:48 PM

Quote:

So what's the bottom line to this thread? Fuel wash down?



Thats the only thing I see... washed out the rings,
the bores are shiney and smooth and thats with about
20 minutes of running(maybe a bit more time)
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/16/12 08:37 PM

Well I dropped the block off at the machine shop to
have it magnifluxed (cyls) and honed on a machine,
putting in new cam bearings and cleaning... I'll pick
it up later this week...... starting all over... hope
to have it built up by Saturday and back in the car
on Sunday... hopefully
Posted By: Crizila

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/16/12 08:40 PM

Quote:

Quote:

So what's the bottom line to this thread? Fuel wash down?



Thats the only thing I see... washed out the rings,
the bores are shiney and smooth and thats with about
20 minutes of running(maybe a bit more time)


Bummer . Should be plenty of crosshatch left with that little bit of run time. Maybe a smaller, leaner break-in carb for your initial run in. I know there are a lot of different opinions when it comes to break-in lube, but I just use the same petrolium based oil on the ring pack that I use to brake the motor in with ( usually 10W30 )plus a cam additive ( High zinc content - not on the ring pack but in the oil )- been using Hughes "Extreme pressure lube". After about 500 miles, I dump it and run full synthetic with the same additive. I make extra sure that my initial start-up with a fresh motor is immediate - oil primed ( and I prime a long time with at least 2-3 motor revolutions ), fuel primed, timing is within a few degrees of where I want to run, known good ignition. I'm sure nothing you don't already know / do.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/17/12 05:15 AM

Bummer . Should be plenty of crosshatch left with that little bit of run time. Maybe a smaller, leaner break-in carb for your initial run in. I know there are a lot of different opinions when it comes to break-in lube, but I just use the same petrolium based oil on the ring pack that I use to brake the motor in with ( usually 10W30 )plus a cam additive ( High zinc content - not on the ring pack but in the oil )- been using Hughes "Extreme pressure lube". After about 500 miles, I dump it and run full synthetic with the same additive. I make extra sure that my initial start-up with a fresh motor is immediate - oil primed ( and I prime a long time with at least 2-3 motor revolutions ), fuel primed, timing is within a few degrees of where I want to run, known good ignition. I'm sure nothing you don't already know / do.



I have the carb set back to what should be stock setting
on the jets and squirters and a 4.5 PV but I think
I'll plug the PV for the time so that part SHOULD be
ok.... I should know on Sunday if it all works out...
it started instantly the last time
Posted By: radar

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/17/12 07:02 AM

Been following this build for a while now- good luck man. Can't wait to see a video!
Posted By: Labratt

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/17/12 03:42 PM

Mike..don't hesitate to call me if you need any assistance at all!
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/17/12 04:42 PM

Quote:

Mike..don't hesitate to call me if you need any assistance at all!



Thanks Randy... all the stuff Sean needs is over
at the machine shop... I'll go on the dyno next week
if I'm ready
Posted By: Mopar-Al

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/17/12 04:59 PM

Mike, Do you think that maybe the ball hone had something to do with it? Like the grit was too porous and it didn't clean up all the way when you cleaned it out? I have seen that happen a dozen times or so before. Where it just took the hone cross hatch pattern off then started eating away at a rapid rate. Just curious.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/17/12 08:06 PM

Quote:

Mike, Do you think that maybe the ball hone had something to do with it? Like the grit was too porous and it didn't clean up all the way when you cleaned it out? I have seen that happen a dozen times or so before. Where it just took the hone cross hatch pattern off then started eating away at a rapid rate. Just curious.



I dont really know.... all I can think is that the
rings washed out more due to excessive fuel... this
is a first for me... of all the engines I've built
over the years I've never had to tear one back down
and when I was young I was the heavy mech at a dealership

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/17/12 08:19 PM

Quote:

Bummer . Should be plenty of crosshatch left with that little bit of run time. Maybe a smaller, leaner break-in carb for your initial run in. I know there are a lot of different opinions when it comes to break-in lube, but I just use the same petrolium based oil on the ring pack that I use to brake the motor in with ( usually 10W30 )plus a cam additive ( High zinc content - not on the ring pack but in the oil )- been using Hughes "Extreme pressure lube". After about 500 miles, I dump it and run full synthetic with the same additive. I make extra sure that my initial start-up with a fresh motor is immediate - oil primed ( and I prime a long time with at least 2-3 motor revolutions ), fuel primed, timing is within a few degrees of where I want to run, known good ignition. I'm sure nothing you don't already know / do.



I have the carb set back to what should be stock setting
on the jets and squirters and a 4.5 PV but I think
I'll plug the PV for the time so that part SHOULD be
ok.... I should know on Sunday if it all works out...
it started instantly the last time


For what it`s worth Mike, I`d run the pv for the break in to keep it crisp then you might actually see how good a pv is especially in a street/strip deal. Prime example; a friend of mine just had PC carbs do him a stage three carb overhaul on his 1050 dommmy which came w/no pv channel but Ron converted it over and did a bunch of tricks to make it clean. Now his plugs are dry and clean and after some late night desert romps, he said it`s faster and crisper than ever..........
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/17/12 08:41 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Bummer . Should be plenty of crosshatch left with that little bit of run time. Maybe a smaller, leaner break-in carb for your initial run in. I know there are a lot of different opinions when it comes to break-in lube, but I just use the same petrolium based oil on the ring pack that I use to brake the motor in with ( usually 10W30 )plus a cam additive ( High zinc content - not on the ring pack but in the oil )- been using Hughes "Extreme pressure lube". After about 500 miles, I dump it and run full synthetic with the same additive. I make extra sure that my initial start-up with a fresh motor is immediate - oil primed ( and I prime a long time with at least 2-3 motor revolutions ), fuel primed, timing is within a few degrees of where I want to run, known good ignition. I'm sure nothing you don't already know / do.



I have the carb set back to what should be stock setting
on the jets and squirters and a 4.5 PV but I think
I'll plug the PV for the time so that part SHOULD be
ok.... I should know on Sunday if it all works out...
it started instantly the last time


For what it`s worth Mike, I`d run the pv for the break in to keep it crisp then you might actually see how good a pv is especially in a street/strip deal. Prime example; a friend of mine just had PC carbs do him a stage three carb overhaul on his 1050 dommmy which came w/no pv channel but Ron converted it over and did a bunch of tricks to make it clean. Now his plugs are dry and clean and after some late night desert romps, he said it`s faster and crisper than ever..........



Well now that I'm going on the dyno and using the
A/F meter I will run the PV... I'll have it set up
the way it will be on the street ... all tuned in
(for the conditions of the dyno day)
Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/17/12 08:49 PM

Just makes sense...........I know some drive/race w/out pv`s but I personally can`t seem to make em work that well at least on the street. Eddie went 7`s w/pv`s............
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/18/12 09:52 PM

I guess my time schedule just just backed up a few
days... I gotta coat the piston skirts to make things
right... oh well... I'll go get my windshield when the
pistons are being coated.... whats more money anyways...
spend it like you got it
Posted By: Labratt

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/18/12 10:14 PM

"Spend it like ya' got it"....and drive it like ya' stole it! Can't wait for DYNO DAY!
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/18/12 10:21 PM

Quote:

"Spend it like ya' got it"....and drive it like ya' stole it! Can't wait for DYNO DAY!



At the present rate I'll get on the dyno and blow it up...
today hasnt been the best... my tubing guy is on vacation
for 3 more weeks and I need tubing(I'm out) so I can
get a job done and out... but I did find a windshield...
my bearings showed up today so thats good... oh well

Posted By: tubtar

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/18/12 11:01 PM

Life sure has a way of keeping you on your toes when there is a car build going on.
Not too much different from real life , but often more intense and always more expensive.
I just roll with the punches and try to land a few when I can.
I am watching this one closely , to the point where your set backs feel like they are my set backs........except for the wallet part of the deal.
Best of luck when it hits the pump.
Posted By: Dartin

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/19/12 12:33 AM

Mike, what kind of tubing do you need? I can do some asking around. Also, where are you going to dyno the motor, out at St. Claire Engine?

Randy
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/19/12 12:49 AM

Quote:

Mike, what kind of tubing do you need? I can do some asking around. Also, where are you going to dyno the motor, out at St. Claire Engine?

Randy



Randy I need a piece of 1 5/8 X.083 moly 28" long and
some 1 1/4 x .058 or .065..... yes gonna dyno it at
St Clair
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/28/12 02:49 PM

The wife and I traveled yesterday to go pick up the
windshield for the Rampage... ended up driving 525
miles for a windshield... but its here in 1 piece...
I got my pistons back from the coating shop so I just
need the rings to show up then get it back together
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/28/12 07:58 PM

Thanks to Sean... he had some pieces of tubing that
I needed to finish up a job... thank Sean that was a
big help.. so I dont have to wait on my supplier to
get back from vacation
Posted By: Labratt

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/28/12 09:32 PM

Mike..which Sean? Johnson?..or Meyer? Glad you got what ya' needed!
Posted By: maximum entropy

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/30/12 08:35 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

New pistons or used?? What I am getting at, is, are the ring lands/grooves posibly too wide from past use?



New pistons, rings, bearings, rods, crank all that
stuff was new


I`d lean it out and go beat on it for a few and see if the sealing improves............done it before w/non detergent oil and it worked but maybe yours has different issues.........


i have done this. i had a 340 many thousands of years ago that washed the rings. the leakdown was horrible. i was so pissed after i got the flooding taken care of, i went out and beat the livin' daylights out of that thing, and it got better and better, eventually (same day) getting down close to zero. that engine ran forever after that. definitely worth a try.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: NOT HAPPY - 07/30/12 08:43 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

New pistons or used?? What I am getting at, is, are the ring lands/grooves posibly too wide from past use?



New pistons, rings, bearings, rods, crank all that
stuff was new


I`d lean it out and go beat on it for a few and see if the sealing improves............done it before w/non detergent oil and it worked but maybe yours has different issues.........


i have done this. i had a 340 many thousands of years ago that washed the rings. the leakdown was horrible. i was so pissed after i got the flooding taken care of, i went out and beat the livin' daylights out of that thing, and it got better and better, eventually (same day) getting down close to zero. that engine ran forever after that. definitely worth a try.



Its on the stand and its torn down and honed... just
waiting on the new rings(hopefully today) then I
put it back together and in
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