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Swapping valve locks, do I need new retainers?
Posted By: Montclaire
Swapping valve locks, do I need new retainers? - 07/05/12 04:11 PM
I bought a set of 915s that had bigger valves installed, they are Milodon 3/8 shaft valves. I also got a set of take-off springs, locks, and retainers from a set of stealth heads. The locks are too small due to the upgraded valves, so I ordered a new set of 10' comp cams locks for 3/8 shafts. Do I need to order new retainers as well, or is the same retainer used across the board? The retainers are also from comp cams as part of the stealth package.
Thanks
Posted By: 451Mopar
Re: Swapping valve locks, do I need new retainers? - 07/05/12 04:53 PM
I think the stock stealth retainers and locks are 7-degree?
Posted By: Montclaire
Re: Swapping valve locks, do I need new retainers? - 07/05/12 05:02 PM
I think maybe you can get both, is there a chance that they could go together fine if mismatched, or will I know it right off the bat? I don't recall seeing any markings on the retainers, I'll look again tonight.
Posted By: CompWedgeEngines
Re: Swapping valve locks, do I need new retainers? - 07/05/12 05:05 PM
10* locks need 10* retainers...7* needs 7* and so forth. The only exception is Crane multi fit stuff.
Posted By: Montclaire
Re: Swapping valve locks, do I need new retainers? - 07/05/12 05:07 PM
Ok, so I should be able to tell if I have the right ones once I get to match them up. I looked at the 440 Source site quick before I had ordered and it looked like they had 10' retainers and locks but from what I am seeing now, it looks like the heads come with 7' and the 10's are an upgrade.
This begs the question, if I ordered the wrong locks, do I buy the 10' retainers, or return the locks and get 7' ones? Is a 7' lock and retainer UNDERkill for a 3/8th stem valve? This is a street motor only. Cam is a 509. Budget is a concern, but not at the risk of dropping a valve.
Posted By: jamesc
Re: Swapping valve locks, do I need new retainers? - 07/05/12 05:57 PM
for your application 7° is fine and the 7s actually wedge tighter than the 10s. the 10s came about years ago because in severe applications the 7s had been known to occasionally pull through the retainer. imho i would hesitate to use the locks/retainers from the stealth heads assuming they are offshore pieces. i'm sure many people have used them without problem but the one set i saw was bad and had a valve all but pulling through right out of the box. as for the springs i don't know the quality but 7° locks and steel retainers which is all you need aren't that expensive. i would not bother with the 10s in your application
Posted By: LaRoy Engines
Re: Swapping valve locks, do I need new retainers? - 07/05/12 09:53 PM
Quote:
I bought a set of 915s that had bigger valves installed, they are Milodon 3/8 shaft valves. I also got a set of take-off springs, locks, and retainers from a set of stealth heads. The locks are too small due to the upgraded valves, so I ordered a new set of 10' comp cams locks for 3/8 shafts. Do I need to order new retainers as well, or is the same retainer used across the board? The retainers are also from comp cams as part of the stealth package.
Thanks
You cannot use the takeoff Stealth 7 degree retainers on 3/8 stem valves even if you use 7 degree locks. You will have to buy retainers to match the springs and locks you are using.
Posted By: Montclaire
Re: Swapping valve locks, do I need new retainers? - 07/06/12 03:20 AM
Wait, why not? I have the springs, locks, and retainers off the stealths. I called Jegs and swapped my order, they are sending me the 7' comp locks for a 3/8ths valve to match my 7' stealth comp retainers. So the only difference is the locks, to match the bigger valve diameter. What am I missing?
Posted By: LaRoy Engines
Re: Swapping valve locks, do I need new retainers? - 07/06/12 03:40 PM
Because, the 440 Source retainers were designed for 11/32 stems, the hole in them isn't big enough for the 3/8 stem to fit properly. The valve tip will fit through but the tip and locks will stick way up above the retainer. I was pretty sure the 3/8 valves wouldn't work with the Stealth retainers so I called 440 Source BEFORE I posted.
You were advised poorly. Haven't you noticed? Too many people give advise here with NO DIRECT KNOWLEDGE of what they are talking about!
Posted By: Montclaire
Re: Swapping valve locks, do I need new retainers? - 07/07/12 02:18 AM
Ok, so what do I have to buy? The locks are comps, I suppose I should stick with them.
Posted By: Montclaire
Re: Swapping valve locks, do I need new retainers? - 07/07/12 02:24 AM
Looks like OD on the stealth springs is 1.550... 780-16?
Posted By: CompWedgeEngines
Re: Swapping valve locks, do I need new retainers? - 07/07/12 02:30 AM
What we are trying to tell you is if you have 3/8 stem valves, you'll need valve locks that fit 3/8 valves ( wich sounds like you ordered) and retainers that are also for 3/8 valves. You cant swap 3/8 locks with 11/32 retainers. Right now it sounds like you have 3/8 locks ( 10* ?) and 3/8 valves, so you will need retainers for 3/8 valves that work with 10* locks. The only time this isnt the case, as I mentioned before, is with Crane multi fit products.
If you list what locks you bought, I can tell you what retainers you need. ( assuming you stuck with Stealth valves springs) Although its not 100% necessary, its always good to keep all products from 1 manufacter.
So, locks, retainers and valves all need to work together for the valve lock angle and the valve stem diameter.
Posted By: Montclaire
Re: Swapping valve locks, do I need new retainers? - 07/07/12 02:36 AM
I cancelled the 10' locks and ordered the 7' locks for the 3/8 valves. From what I can see on the 440 Source site, the spring OD is 1.550. Going off the Comp Cams site, it's looking like I can get retainers big enough for a 1.550 spring and for a 3/8 stem, pn 780-16. Sound good?
Posted By: jamesc
Re: Swapping valve locks, do I need new retainers? - 07/07/12 02:38 AM
Quote:
You were advised poorly. Haven't you noticed? Too many people give advise here with NO DIRECT KNOWLEDGE of what they are talking about!
that happens anywhere and everywhere but i don't see any evidence of it in this particular thread as no one has recommended he use the 7° 11/32 retainers with the 3/8 valves.
normally 7° retainers are stem diameter specific and 10° aren't
as for what retainer to use you need to know the spring ID as well because that's where the retainer will register, that will usually be diameter number two on the retainer specs. i'm assuming these are single springs?
Posted By: Montclaire
Re: Swapping valve locks, do I need new retainers? - 07/07/12 02:40 AM
Posted By: jamesc
Re: Swapping valve locks, do I need new retainers? - 07/07/12 03:29 AM
then the 780-16 should be the correct retainer
Posted By: Montclaire
Re: Swapping valve locks, do I need new retainers? - 07/07/12 06:30 AM
Well let's hope so, they are on the way.
Posted By: Montclaire
Re: Swapping valve locks, do I need new retainers? - 07/15/12 04:17 PM
Fixed, thank you