New 470 build needs your help!!!

Posted By: DanteGray

New 470 build needs your help!!! - 06/27/12 11:35 PM

Your opinions will be in this build!

Hey all Im starting a 470 build and want opinions on parts and recommendations. This is my prep for when I go to Carlise in July. My budget is 7000 and I have a few parts. 400 block, Mopar M1 4150 flange, MSD 6AL, Malory distrubator. The goal is low to mid 10s in a duster 3100 lbs with driver and 26 tall 12wide tire 3.73 rear (equal to 28/ 4.10). Fuel will be 93 pump and no NOS. There are no power acessorys (brakes, steering, ac).

Im thinking about buying:
Indy EZ440-1 preped heads and custom cam (maybe 620-630ish lift ultradyne). 3.915 stroke, 6.760 rod, 1.270 dish probe piston = 1.72 ratio; light weight piston (600g w/ pin) and long rod (9.9875 on 9.980 deck), 950 quick fuel or HP. between 3500-4k stall. Headman headers.

The goal is to be a street terror cause I'm tire of these damn chevys guys running their mouth!

Posted By: mikeysmopars

Re: New 470 build needs your help!!! - 06/27/12 11:40 PM

You need Thumperdart!
I would have said not doable but I am now a believer!

Posted By: 68valiant68

Re: New 470 build needs your help!!! - 06/27/12 11:51 PM

Call Bob George, Indy has 470 rotating kits for a nice price! I ran one of the Indy kits for 2 years with zero issues. Eagle 4340 crank eagle h beam rods and Wisco pistons.

Posted By: 383man

Re: New 470 build needs your help!!! - 06/28/12 12:52 AM

That will not be to hard. Thats close to my 493 build and I have hit 10.70's at 3700 lbs with only 7 passes on it so far and I race it as I drive it on 92 pump through the full exh system. I used a 440Source 4.15 kit and dished pistons for pump friendly 10.6 comp. Heads are Indy EZ heads worked by Dwayne Porter and a solid flat tappet cam speced by Dwayne also. I am using the Indy dual plane intake with an 850 DP and a Mallory dist.
I would call Dwayne Porter for your heads and cam. I bought my heads and cam right from him as he worked the heads some and speced out a nice cam for the combo. And his prices are fair and he is a nice guy who is easy to work with. I think I have 10.50's in mine if I ever get to some serious tuning and maybe try a dominator carb. Good luck , Ron

Posted By: viperblue72

Re: New 470 build needs your help!!! - 06/28/12 01:12 AM

I would go with a 1.32ch piston and a 6.535 rod. Only because that doesn't require ring support rails. Also ross makes a 1.32 piston that's right around 520 grams. The chevy rods are also cheaper and lighter, and more choices with 2.2 journal.
But your idea will work just fine too I imagine. Keep us posted. I like the 470 idea.

Posted By: viperblue72

Re: New 470 build needs your help!!! - 06/28/12 01:13 AM

Quote:

Call Bob George, Indy has 470 rotating kits for a nice price! I ran one of the Indy kits for 2 years with zero issues. Eagle 4340 crank eagle h beam rods and Wisco pistons.

The Indy kit has 440 counterweights. Id go 440source with the chevy width journals.

Posted By: Chris'sBarracuda

Re: New 470 build needs your help!!! - 06/28/12 02:17 AM

Quote:

You need Thumperdart!
I would have said not doable but I am now a believer!

If Thump Man would tell his secrets to you...

Dom's car certainly runs well.. 9.70's with RPM heads..

Chris..

Posted By: DanteGray

Re: New 470 build needs your help!!! - 06/28/12 03:12 AM

Agreed, the 440 source style kit was my second option. But I'm staying with the 220 journal and .990pin chevy set-up. I just want to stay with a light weight piston so it will rev fast. Oh the Cam will be a solid flat tappet.

Posted By: Sledge_57

Re: New 470 build needs your help!!! - 06/28/12 03:22 AM

I assume Muscle Motors still does these. They did mine and it's a 1.32ch piston and a 6.535 rod combo and it revs fast. Mine is 10:1 compression, Bulldog heads, 585 lift 259@.050 cam, RPM intake and a MD 850 (stay away from that carb

)

470 in a light car should be fun.

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: New 470 build needs your help!!! - 06/28/12 04:05 AM

Quote:

Agreed, the 440 source style kit was my second option. But I'm staying with the 220 journal and .990pin chevy set-up. I just want to stay with a light weight piston so it will rev fast. Oh the Cam will be a solid flat tappet.

If your buying new heads buy the the Max Wedge intake ports EZ, sell the M1 intake and buy a used Indy single four intake, 4150 or 4500 flange with the max wedge intake ports, both work well with adapters or spacers with the Quik Fuel or Holley 950 H carbs, the Quick Fuel is bigger CFM than the Holley is

and shoot for close to 255 to 265 duration at .050 with as much lift as you can get on the cam and have it ground on 108 lobe centers, install it 3 to 6 degrees advanced on the intake lobes

I've built and help build several 3.91 stroke motors, both high deck and low decks, they will run

Posted By: 67dodge67

Re: New 470 build needs your help!!! - 06/28/12 06:35 AM

Quote:

I assume Muscle Motors still does these. They did mine and it's a 1.32ch piston and a 6.535 rod combo and it revs fast. Mine is 10:1 compression, Bulldog heads, 585 lift [Email]259@.050[/Email] cam, RPM intake and a MD 850 (stay away from that carb )

470 in a light car should be fun.

470's are FUN. I'm just beginning to have fun with mine in a 67 Coronet.... check out my recent post... you just miiiiiiight be interested in my build since you have a lighter car than mine

Dave

Posted By: 71Pan

Re: New 470 build needs your help!!! - 06/28/12 07:04 AM

6.7 rod uses 1.32cph muscle motor combo
6.535 rod uses 1.485 cph 440 source
or u can us 6.385 rod with 1.665 cph Scat makes nice I beam cheap
check out Ramm's post 470 on the dyno 670 horse on pump gas looks like pretty straight foward parts that made great power!

Posted By: viperblue72

Re: New 470 build needs your help!!! - 06/30/12 06:00 AM

Good catch!

. I said 6.535 rod with 1.32, its actually 6.7.

Posted By: deaks

Re: New 470 build needs your help!!! - 06/30/12 12:13 PM

I'd say the only downside of your build is the lack of stall. My car is 3100# 440 RB, more comp than you 12.5.1, more stall 5000 but less head cubes and cam. So low 10's should be easy enough.
Mick

Posted By: dmking

Re: New 470 build needs your help!!! - 06/30/12 04:28 PM

if my 440 can run low 10.20 as a 30 over 440 with old indy heads flowing around 330cfm and a 262@50 cam 640ish lift a 470 should have that covered.
our street stock pulling class has a 470 cid limit and i was thinking on that to try and use my 440-1c heads and hope the 30 extra cid helps the ported heads to make torque.
for a car to drag race i my self think the shorter rod will 60ft better.

Posted By: Sledge_57

Re: New 470 build needs your help!!! - 06/30/12 05:05 PM

Quote:

Good catch! . I said 6.535 rod with 1.32, its actually 6.7.

Me too, i could only remember the 1.32ch so I assumed the rods were as you posted

Posted By: DanteGray

Re: New 470 build needs your help!!! - 07/02/12 04:56 AM

Yea I have been looking at the 1.320piston and 6.7 rod. The pistons are over $700 with no rings, by Diamond Racing.

Posted By: 71Pan

Re: New 470 build needs your help!!! - 07/02/12 04:17 PM

Call Eric @ Muscle Motors Great guy great products!!!! cant beat prices either!! KB icon pistons are 500 same piston as 451

Posted By: DanteGray

Re: New 470 build needs your help!!! - 07/03/12 02:06 PM

Quote:

Call Eric @ Muscle Motors Great guy great products!!!! cant beat prices either!! KB icon pistons are 500 same piston as 451

I called Keithblack pistons will have too much compression (Flat top w/ 4cc valve reliefs) about 11.9 static and weigh 559g and Diamond have a 12.5 cc dish about 10.9 static and weigh 537g.

3.915/2+6.7+1.320=9.9775-9.980=0.0025 below deck

Posted By: cgall

Re: New 470 build needs your help!!! - 07/04/12 02:55 AM

470 ci low deck with SR heads.

Posted By: jamesc

Re: New 470 build needs your help!!! - 07/04/12 03:18 AM

Quote:

Yea I have been looking at the 1.320piston and 6.7 rod. The pistons are over $700 with no rings, by Diamond Racing.

what piston would that be? i don't know of any stocking piston they list to fit these dimensions, at least i didn't see it in their catalog when i was looking. i can't remember all the standard dimensions but i thought the rods were 6.76

Posted By: viperblue72

Re: New 470 build needs your help!!! - 07/04/12 03:52 AM

1.32ch piston is a very popular piston as it is used in stroker 440 combos too.
The 6.7 rod is an aftermarket rod for chevy's. But can be used for other motor combos.

Posted By: jamesc

Re: New 470 build needs your help!!! - 07/04/12 04:32 AM

ok i was figuring he must have meant a chevy rod but didn't know 6.7 was a stocking size i always remember chevy rods as being mostly 6.x35" until you get into the 7.xx". i was also looking at the lo deck offerings as opposed to the RB

i was looking around for a dished piston for a 470" setup i have but wanted to use the 6.76 manley sportsmasters i have.

i couldn't find anything and best i can tell (and it's a guess) it looks like when you get into a 1.32CH dished piston they may push the ring pack down so the wrist pin ends up in the oil ring whereas with a 1.32CH standard crown the pin isn't in the ring.

do people ever run into skirt/counterweight interference problems when going off a CH that's listed for a different rod length than the one being used as long as the assembly stacks up the the desired deck height.

and anyone know why would these pistons weigh as much as they do? i realize it's not a top shelf piston but still a 1.32 coming in at 709 grams i just can't believe that's not a misprint.

http://www.cnc-motorsports.com/icon-ic837-033-forged-dish-pistons-4-375-bore-1.html

Posted By: jamesc

Re: New 470 build needs your help!!! - 07/04/12 04:50 AM

incidentally the pistons i have are the Ross 99496 which is a 4.375, 1.238CH piston with a .990 pin and the pin is in the oil ring. i was looking to drop the CR some to run pump gas. i even called ross and asked about minimum crown thickness and where i "might" be able to remove some material to drop the CR. i wrote down the info then promptly lost it

Posted By: DanteGray

Re: New 470 build needs your help!!! - 07/13/12 07:26 PM

Quote:

ok i was figuring he must have meant a chevy rod but didn't know 6.7 was a stocking size i always remember chevy rods as being mostly 6.x35" until you get into the 7.xx". i was also looking at the lo deck offerings as opposed to the RB

i was looking around for a dished piston for a 470" setup i have but wanted to use the 6.76 manley sportsmasters i have.

i couldn't find anything and best i can tell (and it's a guess) it looks like when you get into a 1.32CH dished piston they may push the ring pack down so the wrist pin ends up in the oil ring whereas with a 1.32CH standard crown the pin isn't in the ring.

do people ever run into skirt/counterweight interference problems when going off a CH that's listed for a different rod length than the one being used as long as the assembly stacks up the the desired deck height.

and anyone know why would these pistons weigh as much as they do? i realize it's not a top shelf piston but still a 1.32 coming in at 709 grams i just can't believe that's not a misprint.

http://www.cnc-motorsports.com/icon-ic837-033-forged-dish-pistons-4-375-bore-1.html

With the 6.76 rod you could have used the 1.270 BBC piston off shelf (454+1.25).

The piston difference is the piston you are talking about is a "step dish" not a "dish" piston, they might contact the heads I dont know. Plus the weight difference is about 30g ea or 1oz, probably nothing I will see on the street but knowing I'm using the good light parts.

Yea the Rods I just got are

BBC 6.700 eagle H-beam(CRS67003d)2.20 and .990 pin weigh 815g. Im ordering Diamond pistons #52407 4.375 bore, 1.320ch, 12.5 dish in .990 pin 537g + 140g pin = 677g. Ordering Indy EZ w/ MAX wedge intakes @ 77cc. about 10.9 static compression. Looking at Voodoo solid roller #60334, that will yeld 8.3 dynamic compression and 600+hp and 600+tq on pump gas

.

Now I just have to figure the suspension out

(600+hp and 600+tq)

Any comments?

Posted By: ProSport

Re: New 470 build needs your help!!! - 07/14/12 03:10 AM

That will be a very easy and fun combo, my old 3050# DartSport ran 9.80's with a low deck 451, cheap 590 purple shaft solid cam, Edelbrock heads and 2" MadDog headers.

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