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Magnaflux and why we recommend it.

Posted By: Performance Only

Magnaflux and why we recommend it. - 06/27/12 10:59 PM

here's some pictures of a crankshaft a customer brought in to have us modify for his application. we almost always recommend magnetic particle testing on crankshafts.
had we not found this now, i'm sure the owner would've found it in short order the hard way.

Attached picture 7268010-3_4rodjournal.JPG
Posted By: Performance Only

Re: Magnaflux and why we recommend it. - 06/27/12 11:00 PM

take 2

Attached picture 7268013-7_8rodjournal.JPG
Posted By: Performance Only

Re: Magnaflux and why we recommend it. - 06/27/12 11:04 PM

and finally

Attached picture 7268019-5_6rodjournal.JPG
Posted By: Moparnut426

Re: Magnaflux and why we recommend it. - 06/27/12 11:05 PM

NDT is a very cool thing!!!!!

Posted By: ef8Cuda340

Re: Magnaflux and why we recommend it. - 06/27/12 11:10 PM

Can't imagine it being anything else other than a fatigue crack.
Posted By: Moparnut426

Re: Magnaflux and why we recommend it. - 06/27/12 11:22 PM

And unless ya have it radiographed you wont know how deep it is.

I cant imagine too many engine shops have an x ray machine at their disposal.

Posted By: FastOne

Re: Magnaflux and why we recommend it. - 06/27/12 11:34 PM

ouch!
Posted By: Chris'sBarracuda

Re: Magnaflux and why we recommend it. - 06/28/12 12:14 AM

Very Cool Dan..

I mean the pic.. Not the crack..


As always..



Chris..
Posted By: 72swgnr

Re: Magnaflux and why we recommend it. - 06/28/12 01:12 AM

Quote:

And unless ya have it radiographed you wont know how deep it is.

I cant imagine too many engine shops have an x ray machine at their disposal.






They can also use ultrasonics to find the depth of the indication. I've been working on a 1,000,000 HP/1 billion dollar steam turbine that self destructed for the past 3 weeks
Posted By: dodgeboy11

Re: Magnaflux and why we recommend it. - 06/28/12 03:06 AM

How does the crank sound when you tap the counterweight with a hammer? I'm curious because I've seen cracked cranks before, pretty sure they were cast, and when you tapped it with a hammer, there was no ring. It was a bit of a dull sound, not the type you have to grab the counterweight to make it go away.
Posted By: Performance Only

Re: Magnaflux and why we recommend it. - 06/28/12 03:59 AM

Quote:

How does the crank sound when you tap the counterweight with a hammer? I'm curious because I've seen cracked cranks before, pretty sure they were cast, and when you tapped it with a hammer, there was no ring. It was a bit of a dull sound, not the type you have to grab the counterweight to make it go away.




just so everybody knows, those 3 pictures are 3 different journals. all 4 rod throws have cracks, i just didn't photograph the last one.
if someone were to base whether or not this crankshaft was any good based on how it rings, they'd think it was perfectly fine. on three of those journals the cracks run more than half way around the journal. basically it's a failure waiting to happen.
i wanted to post these pictures for a couple of reasons so i'm glad you asked about how it sounds, or whether it rings or not. sometimes a cracked crank will have a dull ring, but other times it'll still have a nice clear ring like this one.
another reason i posted this is because i don't think i've ever seen anyone post pictures of Zyglow under UV lighting. i think a lot of people don't really know much about the process or what their machinist is actually doing or looking at to qualify whether or not their crankshaft is fit for service. it's not like this is high tech or anything like that, but it's a great, cost effective method with crystal clear results.
just as a side note, every now and then what appears to be a crack isn't a crack at all, but perhaps a grease line or some other annomoly that appears as such. often times a little bit of very light sanding and those will disappear. actual cracks won't disappear when you do that since the particles will remain in the crack below the surface.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Magnaflux and why we recommend it. - 06/28/12 05:03 AM

Wow, I sure hope that isn't my crank.
Posted By: Performance Only

Re: Magnaflux and why we recommend it. - 06/29/12 03:23 AM

i wonder if a should have posted this in the Question and Answer forum where their might be more interest? i didn't think about that until i got a call from a member here asking why i even posted it.
Posted By: cagebob1

Re: Magnaflux and why we recommend it. - 06/29/12 03:28 AM

I, for one, am glad you posted it...here! I would have never seen it in the general section. I don't post here much, but I learn alot from these kind of posts. THANK YOU!
Posted By: roadhazard

Re: Magnaflux and why we recommend it. - 06/29/12 03:34 AM

I saw this but didn't have time to post.
Very interesting and thanks for taking the time
Until now even after all the machine shops I've been in I've never actually seen first hand what the process looks like

I'm afraid to mag mine
when it was index ground one rod throw was off enough to remove the radii on 1/2 the journal
Posted By: Twin Turbo Mower

Re: Magnaflux and why we recommend it. - 06/29/12 03:45 AM

WHat kind of crank was it? And what use did it see before? Street or pure race?
Posted By: rowin4

Re: Magnaflux and why we recommend it. - 06/29/12 04:03 AM

Dan , glad you posted those pictures, shows what may turn into a bad situation if if the engine builder didn't Zyglo the parts before the machine work or the build.
Posted By: BIGSPEED

Re: Magnaflux and why we recommend it. - 06/29/12 05:57 AM

WE got our wet magnaflux machine in 1973,It is one of the most importent machines in our shop.Bill C.
Posted By: dartman366

Re: Magnaflux and why we recommend it. - 06/29/12 07:53 AM

Dan, I take it that you used the Magnaflux Zyglo process, we used to use that process to inspect turbine blades and turbo shafts, also used the magnaflux spot check system but zyglo will go where most anything else won't.oh by the way,,nice catch.
Posted By: 6packattk

Re: Magnaflux and why we recommend it. - 06/29/12 01:07 PM

I am an information sponge,as for the miserable people who love passing it around simply ignore them.Thanks for the pictures
Posted By: gregsdart

Re: Magnaflux and why we recommend it. - 06/29/12 01:29 PM

Those who don't mag their cranks may live to drive over one- not a good thing. After one major failure which took out a block, pan, rollercam, two rods and pistons, I check them every time they come out of the block. I found a small crack in an aftermarket crank with 100 runs on it, which surprised me.
Posted By: Gumbydammit

Re: Magnaflux and why we recommend it. - 06/29/12 02:18 PM

Was it an ex- fuel crank?
Posted By: Performance Only

Re: Magnaflux and why we recommend it. - 06/29/12 02:44 PM

i don't know the full history of the crank in question. it's a factory forged 440 crank. i was told it had been in a motor that was sprayed with NO2. i don't know how much or how often though.
the plan was to use it in a fairly mild low deck combo after cutting the mains and counterweights down.
i sure can't blame a 40+ year old crank for finally giving out after being abused. i'm just glad the owner let us check it out before doing a bunch of work to it. no harm, no foul, we found a good useable crank for his project.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Magnaflux and why we recommend it. - 06/29/12 02:57 PM

This is part of what shows that a builder cares and taking the time to post pics and discuss the issues is a big plus in my book.
Posted By: tboomer

Re: Magnaflux and why we recommend it. - 06/29/12 03:00 PM

Yupp....That does show some class!
Posted By: sixpackgut

Re: Magnaflux and why we recommend it. - 06/29/12 03:13 PM

this reminds me of when i first met Dan. I showed up with boxes of junk parts and he wouldn't let me leave till all the parts were checked out so he didn't have to make the dreaded, "yours parts are junk" call
Posted By: Performance Only

Re: Magnaflux and why we recommend it. - 06/29/12 03:24 PM

Quote:

this reminds me of when i first met Dan. I showed up with boxes of junk parts and he wouldn't let me leave till all the parts were checked out so he didn't have to make the dreaded, "yours parts are junk" call




Ray, they weren't "junk" parts, just what i call "questionable". i remember looking at the crank though and spotted something right away. in the grinder it went for verification. i remember it like it was yesterday saying "yep, that's not good". but it got taken care of then and there. i really do hate to make those calls after the fact. i think your combo turned out pretty good when it was all said and done. ya just have to love those success stories,
thanks for the positive comments guys. i'm very passionate about what we do and want to do the best job possible to ensure our customers success. after all, our success always has and always will hinge on our customers success.
Posted By: Irun5snd8th

Re: Magnaflux and why we recommend it. - 06/29/12 04:46 PM

Wow I have never seen what that process looks like. Thanks for posting the pictures.
Posted By: 408cuda

Re: Magnaflux and why we recommend it. - 06/29/12 10:56 PM

Come on Dan, a little 320 and a shoe lace ought to clean that right up

Cool pic!
Posted By: magnumcharger

Re: Magnaflux and why we recommend it. - 06/30/12 01:00 AM

Great thread! And good find!
I see cracks like that all the time, but on aircraft components. Scary stuff.

Attached picture 7270558-DSC00008.JPG
Posted By: Tom Fox

Re: Magnaflux and why we recommend it. - 06/30/12 02:03 AM

Hey Dan, That Crank Looks Familiar. Yes This Was Mine.
Posted By: 72swgnr

Re: Magnaflux and why we recommend it. - 06/30/12 02:42 AM

Dan what current do you use? AC or DC? DC can pick up shallow sub-surface indications while AC will normally only pick up indications that are open to the surface. Also product do you use to check alluminum heads/rods? I know alot of people have seen Magnaflux red dye penetrant but I'm willing to bet very few have seen flourecent penetrant which is actually way more sensitive then mag particle depending on the level of penetrant you use.


Just to give you guys who are interested an idea how the magnaflux works. You have a few different ways you can magnatize a part. 1. you can use a hand yoke. The advantage of these is they are portable and can get into smaller areas. You can use a yoke for pretty much any part you want to mag. but you can only cover a 6" area at a time. The second way of magnatizing a part is to use a magnaflux bench. The advantage of these are you can control the amount of amperage that you put into a part. You also can magnetize a whole part at once which saves time and money if you have multiple parts to do. Third way is you can use another type of magnaflux machine that uses cables. (kind of like welding cables) The advantage of these is they are fairly portable and can do very large parts.

Now for how the process works its pretty simple you magnetize a part while applying flourescent particles. These particles are made up of kerosene/water and iron. If there is a crack in the part it will break the magentic field and cause the flourescent particles to line up along the break, when this happens you get indications that look like the pictures that Dan posted.
Posted By: Performance Only

Re: Magnaflux and why we recommend it. - 06/30/12 03:23 AM

Quote:

Hey Dan, That Crank Looks Familiar. Yes This Was Mine.




and it still is. it would make a fine mailbox post. your replacement, which was magged and then shot blasted, made it's way into the crank grinder this morning and finished up.
Posted By: FastOne

Re: Magnaflux and why we recommend it. - 06/30/12 03:48 AM

Thanks for the Post Dan, it's very important info & is a reminder to never assume anything when building an engine
Posted By: 1Fast340

Re: Magnaflux and why we recommend it. - 06/30/12 10:53 AM

good post and cool to see a pic of it broken in 3 places thats quite bad,or good that it didnt brake killing alot of other parts in the process atleast.

does people/builders still weld cracked cranks?
Posted By: CRIKEY

Re: Magnaflux and why we recommend it. - 06/30/12 01:27 PM

Its a little difficult to see but Im assuming the crank is OEM journal? With that being said there's proof for the need of large radii fillets, Chrysler done real bad with their under cut design.
Posted By: 440Jim

Re: Magnaflux and why we recommend it. - 06/30/12 08:18 PM

I agree having a crank magnaflux tested for cracks when the engine is apart is a very good idea (recommended).

Back in the years I ran a 3.915" offset ground factory 440 forged crank, it was cracked (not as bad as that one) after running 2-3 years.

Then in 2006 I built a new engine using a new Callies 4.250" stroke crank I bought from Dan. That crank was tested in Jan 2011 and was completely crack free after 5 years and over 600 passes. So it went back in for more service. The steel rods were tested also, and were good to go; while it was apart I put new rod bolts in them.
Posted By: John_Kunkel

Re: Magnaflux and why we recommend it. - 06/30/12 08:43 PM

Quote:

i don't know the full history of the crank in question. it's a factory forged 440 crank.




So it has the notorious undercuts at the side of the journal complete with the visible chatter marks? I've seen (and run) some with similar cracks that weren't very deep. (I know, any crack.....)
Posted By: tjmarcus1

Re: Magnaflux and why we recommend it. - 06/30/12 10:06 PM

Quote:

i wonder if a should have posted this in the Question and Answer forum where their might be more interest? i didn't think about that until i got a call from a member here asking why i even posted it.



are you serious? thanks dan for posting that! Man, i thought that was what this board is for.
Posted By: Rug_Trucker

Re: Magnaflux and why we recommend it. - 07/01/12 04:09 AM

I think it's a good idea to put this entire thread in the Q&A forum too.
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