What do you look for in a Machine Shop/ Engine Builder?

Posted By: Crizila

Re: What do you look for in a Machine Shop/ Engine Builder? - 06/12/12 04:00 PM

Quote:

Title pretty much sums it up - What do you look for when selecting a machinist?

have you taken a tour first? called on the phone?

I'm interested in hearing some success stories on how you found your builder.

Thanks

Just went through this as I am new to the Az area. Started by getting some feedback from local racers. Meet with the guy. Asked for a shop tour. Looked at what he was working on, shop cleanlyness, Capabilities ( what he can do in house and what he has to send out ). A few test questions pretaining to my motor. If all the above passes your requirements, use him.

Posted By: Dunnuck Racing

Re: What do you look for in a Machine Shop/ Engine Buil - 06/12/12 04:07 PM

The machine shop I use is the same one other machinists in the area take stuff to when they want it done right. I know several builders that take things to him,when they are doing high end builds that need to be right.
You usually wait longer and pay more,but it is worth it in the end.
I drive maybe 45 minutes each way to use him instead of 20 minutes each way for a reputable shop that is closer,but I believe is not as good at what he does.
Not sure if that helps you at all.

Keith

Posted By: 5spdcuda

Re: What do you look for in a Machine Shop/ Engine Builder? - 06/12/12 05:04 PM

Several things. Track record; ie. what kind of engines and how many do they build and how have they worked out. Capability; do they have the experience and equipment to do what I want done "in house". Mistakes; everyone makes them. I want a shop that makes very few of them and takes full responsibility for them when they do occur. Time; we all want it done yesterday, but I'll settle for reasonable. Cost; we all want great quality and dirt cheap pricing. I definitely want good quality, but again I'll settle for fair and reasonable regarding cost. Convenience; it would be nice if they are within 100 miles of home. At this point I'll put in a plug for my own machine shop choice. Belleville Automotive in Belleville,Il. This shop is owned and operated by Mark and Linda Shaefer. Mark is a long time dirt track stock car racer who won the local championship last year. He builds lots of engines of various types, especially circle trackers. He has torque plates for both big and small block Mopars. Mark and Linda have met all the requirements I listed above.

Posted By: SSAAHemiFan

Re: What do you look for in a Machine Shop/ Engine Builder? - 06/12/12 05:08 PM

Personally accuracy is all that matters to me.

They don't have to be charming, cheap or fast. I just want everything machined correctly.

Posted By: dartman366

Re: What do you look for in a Machine Shop/ Engine Builder? - 06/12/12 05:25 PM

Quote:

Personally accuracy is all that matters to me.

They don't have to be charming, cheap or fast. I just want everything machined correctly.

plus someone thats up on the latest trends and takes a personal interest in what works and don't work.

Posted By: Triple Threat

Re: What do you look for in a Machine Shop/ Engine Buil - 06/12/12 05:38 PM

Quote:

You will get many responses to this one--But I bet very few will be honest. In most cases--ALL that matters to the customer is the price$$$$---Until they have problems that is. J.Rob

I can honestly say cost had zero influence on where I took my last build, in fact I chose one of the more expensive options, for other reasons of course.

REPUTATION, quality of equipment, the facility looks more like a doctors office than a machine shop, word of mouth, experience, speed. Lots of factors went into the decision.

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: What do you look for in a Machine Shop/ Engine Builder? - 06/12/12 05:53 PM

I like to see a dyno.... that way they have to prove
themselves but also the equipment in the shop and
a bit of past history

Posted By: dogdays

Re: What do you look for in a Machine Shop/ Engine Builder? - 06/12/12 06:30 PM

I didn't look at price at all at first. I started asking around and found two shops that had better than decent reputations and repeat customers. Then I looked at a third and they are several steps up in quality and reputation but the price was more than I could handle, like three times the other two. Frankly, my build didn't need that much precision. So I went with one of my two choices and so far the work has met my needs.

I'd say reputation, machine tool quality, willingness to listen to the customer, timeliness, and price, in that order.

R.

Posted By: Performance Only

Re: What do you look for in a Machine Shop/ Engine Builder? - 06/12/12 10:32 PM

interesting topic. we do a lot of work for other machine shops in the area. as far as the average customer goes, the conversation usually starts out with "how much do you charge to" (fill in the blank). i'd have to think that's usually the foremost thought in peoples minds when they call. we have a very good local racer client base and those guys don't usually ask for prices on anything, they just want the work done and done right. i think a lot of them have gotten burned by a couple of the other local shops, so price shopping isn't what they do.
it seems like every time we get a new customer referral they want to come by and tour the shop. we're alway's happy to show them around and answer any questions they might have. we're proud of our shop and our capabilities, so any of you guys in the area, stop by any time.

Posted By: dogdays

Re: What do you look for in a Machine Shop/ Engine Builder? - 06/12/12 10:43 PM

For me, by the time I get to the shop I already have narrowed down the choices. So when I ask, "How much will it cost?" I'm more seeing if I can afford it or maybe have to go a different direction. So the shop owner may hear that question first but that's not the first priority. For example, my 318 project could really use 0.030" shaved off the deck. But it costs $180 around here, and I don't know if it's worth that to me. Both places I checked were close to that number, and they both are good. So the deal isn't what's the least amount, but rather, if it costs that much to get a decent job, do I want to spend the money? Obviously, I'm operating on a shoestring.

R.

Posted By: RAMM

Re: What do you look for in a Machine Shop/ Engine Builder? - 06/13/12 12:28 PM

This post is timely--I have jacked my rates into the stratosphere because I'm SICK of being nickel and dimed to death! J.Rob

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: What do you look for in a Machine Shop/ Engine Builder? - 06/13/12 01:58 PM

Quote:

This post is timely--I have jacked my rates into the stratosphere because I'm SICK of being nickel and dimed to death! J.Rob

Posted By: BIGSPEED

Re: What do you look for in a Machine Shop/ Engine Builder? - 06/13/12 10:54 PM

We are not interested in doing work for the Nickle,Dime,Nonsense crowd,in the past every time we tried to save a customer money ,We shot ourselves in the foot,Eighty percent of sportsman racers race by price alone ,the other twenty percent win most of the races and spend less money in the long run with More runs per dollar spent on the right people and parts.Bill C.

Posted By: Moparnut426

Re: What do you look for in a Machine Shop/ Engine Builder? - 06/13/12 11:09 PM

A machinist who looks at the numbers and not the green or red. A lot of the guys will call it good when things are in the "green", and not on the numbers. I personally know 3 machinist who are like this and their stuff hangs together.

There is a reason in my eyes that there is numbers on a guage and not colors.

Posted By: Moparnut426

Re: What do you look for in a Machine Shop/ Engine Builder? - 06/15/12 07:51 PM

Good topic,

heres is a bump

Posted By: Dago Red

Re: What do you look for in a Machine Shop/ Engine Builder? - 06/17/12 09:25 AM

EASY.............

The machine shop that doesn't think every engine is based on a small block Chevy.

Posted By: fourgearsavoy

Re: What do you look for in a Machine Shop/ Engine Builder? - 06/17/12 06:11 PM

Quote:

EASY.............

The machine shop that doesn't think every engine is based on a small block Chevy.

Exactly

find a Mopar guy for your Mopar needs and brand X guy for all your other needs.
Funny thing about cost

my machinist always seems to know how much money have in my pocket when I go to pick my stuff up

I never ask up front because I already know "about" how much it's going to cost and I know I will be getting my moneys worth knowing it's done right the first time

Gus

Attached picture 7253750-savoyburnout.jpg

Posted By: 340B5

Re: What do you look for in a Machine Shop/ Engine Builder? - 06/17/12 08:28 PM

He' gotta know how to use a mic.

I had a conversation with the machinist I use now when he was about to bush my block, and he measured a lifter for sizing. .9043 he says...and I said I had measured that one @.9042. He promptly told me that temp makes a difference while holding the lifter in a clenched fist, then opened his hand and measured the lifter @.9044. I thought back, and sure enough when I measured it, the garage was quite chilly in the morning. I was a little embarassed, but happy to know I'd found a competent machinist.

Posted By: Eric

Re: What do you look for in a Machine Shop/ Engine Builder? - 06/17/12 08:33 PM

(.)(.)'s.....

Posted By: dartman366

Re: What do you look for in a Machine Shop/ Engine Builder? - 06/17/12 08:44 PM

Quote:

(.)(.)'s.....

That's just wrong.

I have the right to remain silent, but I don't have the ability.

Posted By: DusterDave

Re: What do you look for in a Machine Shop/ Engine Buil - 06/17/12 09:11 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Easy... A guy that can make a STRAIGHT round hole

fixed

The hole can be round and straight, and still be wrong.

What I look for in a machinist is one that can dazzle me with technical knowledge, rather than baffle me with bullsh!t. And since I'm a Mopar guy like the rest of you, the machinist must be thoroughly knowledgeable of Mopar engines.

Posted By: CompWedgeEngines

Re: What do you look for in a Machine Shop/ Engine Builder? - 06/17/12 09:31 PM

So Eric, what your saying here is BG has nice ta-ta's....why i never knew...

Posted By: tubtar

Re: What do you look for in a Machine Shop/ Engine Builder? - 06/18/12 12:19 AM

I never mentioned money until it was time to pick up my stuff.....then I asked " what do I owe you ?".
Reputation and experience.......not just with MoPars , but the wide variety of interesting stuff he has put his hands on told me he knew his business.
I did have a ball park figure in mind for pricing on this last build , and he was anywhere from right on to a touch less for all I had done.
If I were having him assemble it , then it would be more important to have a " MoPar guy " , but for machining , it is right or not.
For porting , knowing what a certain head likes is more of a factor I suppose.
But I was very happy with the numbers so far.
The dyno will tell the rest of the tale , but I am not worried in the least.
Reputation and experience ( how long he has been in the business ) are primary for any high end work I need done.

Posted By: LA360

Re: What do you look for in a Machine Shop/ Engine Buil - 06/18/12 01:34 AM

I think on the engine building side of things, the internet has been a thorn in the side of many, many engine builders. Unfortunately there are many instances of mis-information out there and in some cases of too much information. I am sure that some of the magazine build up over the years have created a few headaches as well.

Whilst it may not affect the US & Canadian based engine builders as much, selling parts for Australian engine Builders has basically all but ceased. In many cases the customer can land certain items for less than the builder can buy it for. Certain distibutors of performance parts over here can be somewhat over priced compared to others. The problem is the one in question is probably the largest here in Australia.

No matter where you are, you are going to get guys wanting work done for next to nothing, and they are usually the ones to complain the most when something goes wrong.

Further on to what Jim said, with class style racing, if the engine builder doesn't have a National record or a championship, I won't be handing my $$$ to someone else to come second or be first round fodder.

This thread has been a very interesting read

Posted By: CompWedgeEngines

Re: What do you look for in a Machine Shop/ Engine Buil - 06/18/12 01:48 AM

Very well put Alan...

Posted By: BIGSPEED

Re: What do you look for in a Machine Shop/ Engine Buil - 06/18/12 05:53 AM

A GOOD engine builder,machine shop will get good results with ANY Brand of engine ,The process is the same for Chevy,Ford,Chrysler,Pontiac etc.Bill C.

Posted By: mickm

Re: What do you look for in a Machine Shop/ Engine Buil - 06/18/12 07:02 AM

the machine shop i use came highly recommended by many people, and has been around 30+ years.

but when i went in and happened to see the cylinder head for a jag 6 cylinder engine that he was making, from scratch! that sold me.

Posted By: StrokerPost

Re: What do you look for in a Machine Shop/ Engine Builder? - 06/18/12 08:19 AM

Back when I decided that I wanted to step up my cars performance I wondered the same thing and when word got out among my friends they all said "go with my guy, he's the best".

What I did instead was take a couple of seasons and just watch.....watch who was going fast, who was spinning their motors hard and always race ready, meaning they were staying together all year. If there wasnt a sticker on a car of interest I would ask the guy who does his motor work and nothing else. At the end of a couple of seasons the vast majority of cars that fit my criteria were pretty evenly split between 2 shops, and one of them was closing the doors to go work for Reher and Morrison. I went to the other shop, talked with the owner for a bit and went from there. He showed me his shop, but I told him I wouldnt really know much about what you were showing me anyway and that his attitude, personality and reputation had already sold me. 13 years and thousands of rounds later I have zero regrets about my choice. In all those years I had only 2 failures of any kind, and they were parts failures, nothing within his control. All machine shops are gonna tell you "warm fuzzies" to hopefully win your business, but I look at what their product is doing at the track long before I talk with one. Just my

.
Ken.

Posted By: goldmember

Re: What do you look for in a Machine Shop/ Engine Builder? - 06/18/12 09:54 AM

It's not easy to pick a good machinest. I have a few,1 for machine work and another for valve work and porting. One worked for Jim Oddy and others but I still tell him what I expect before I leave my stuff. He does mostly big HP chevys,Blown Hemis and such,but that doesn't mean he cannot pay attention to what I want done!Price is not a primary factor and I don't ask for it before I leave

Posted By: DonnyBrass

Re: What do you look for in a Machine Shop/ Engine Builder? - 06/18/12 03:08 PM

I look at the girlie posters in the back of the shop; if they are 80's looking, I know they are not staying up on the latest technology..........

Posted By: dartman366

Re: What do you look for in a Machine Shop/ Engine Builder? - 06/18/12 04:25 PM

Quote:

I look at the girlie posters in the back of the shop; if they are 80's looking, I know they are not staying up on the latest technology..........

but on the other hand, would you want to look at those same girlies 30 years later??

Posted By: Motoman172

Re: What do you look for in a Machine Shop/ Engine Builder? - 08/17/12 02:45 PM

Quote:

EASY.............

The machine shop that doesn't think every engine is based on a small block Chevy.

LOVE IT!!!!

Posted By: CompWedgeEngines

Re: What do you look for in a Machine Shop/ Engine Builder? - 08/17/12 04:44 PM

Quote:

Back when I decided that I wanted to step up my cars performance I wondered the same thing and when word got out among my friends they all said "go with my guy, he's the best". What I did instead was take a couple of seasons and just watch.....watch who was going fast, who was spinning their motors hard and always race ready, meaning they were staying together all year. If there wasnt a sticker on a car of interest I would ask the guy who does his motor work and nothing else. At the end of a couple of seasons the vast majority of cars that fit my criteria were pretty evenly split between 2 shops, and one of them was closing the doors to go work for Reher and Morrison. I went to the other shop, talked with the owner for a bit and went from there. He showed me his shop, but I told him I wouldnt really know much about what you were showing me anyway and that his attitude, personality and reputation had already sold me. 13 years and thousands of rounds later I have zero regrets about my choice. In all those years I had only 2 failures of any kind, and they were parts failures, nothing within his control. All machine shops are gonna tell you "warm fuzzies" to hopefully win your business, but I look at what their product is doing at the track long before I talk with one. Just my .
Ken.

Coming from someone who builds engines, this is very good advice and extremely logical...I am often shocked at why some people choose who they do, and the " razzle dazzle" and dog and poney show some shops put on to get customers.We have a local guy who hasnt ever won a damn thing, but because he has a fast car, guys go to him like he's a King...and it always amazes me...great post..

Posted By: mopartoby

Re: What do you look for in a Machine Shop/ Engine Builder? - 08/17/12 06:21 PM

i've always built my own stuff and used a machine shop a few hrs away from me. when it came time to build my 605 b1mc i wanted someone that builds high horse (1000+)mopar motors regularly. that pretty much narrowed the field down immensly. i started emailing a few shops, all south of the boarder. (im canuck):). anyways it boiled down to one builder, i won't mention his name as my motor is not complete yet but he says it will be on the dyno in about a week. i chose him because when i talked to him he was very honest!! he never told me what i wanted. i wanted to upgrade a few things and down grade some others. i wanted to use a certain brand spring he never argued. the only thing he was head strong on was choice of carbs. and in the end if that what he uses all the time, im good with that as long as my hp# is met. he never tried to up sell anything! he's also been very propmt with answering any of my q's. this shop has been around for years and has built championship engines. he was also the only builder to return an email to me.

Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: What do you look for in a Machine Shop/ Engine Builder? - 08/17/12 06:49 PM

Well being military folks we have moved around a lot over the years. So I am not sure I have ever found a formula that works for this issue. We do build stuff for other folks and yes I have someone build my own stuff for the race cars. Just feel 1000+ hp stuff is above my pay grade. When it comes to that stuff I am MORE than happy with the guy who does those for me. Jason Pettis is a very smart guy and I think his record speaks for itself. He will continue to be my guy for all that kind of stuff.

I am currently still trying to find a local shop to do some of the simpler stuff we need done from time to time. I ask local racers and look at what they do with thier cars. I look around at the local circle track stuff as well as they tend to use a machinist more than the local drag racers do. I also have asked around at other shops who thye use or recommend. Seems many bracket guys build an engine once every 10 years or so

Frankly when it comes to bracket stuff it is really hard to tell sometimes how well stuff was done. I mean it is not rocket science to build a low 10 second car, sorry but its the truth. You can do many things wrong and still get there. In the end I talk to a lot of folks and then make a decision on a shop to use after talking to the shop owner. Then we usualy give them something fairly simple to accomplish and then we check it over thoroughly. As I say I am still looking for a compitent shop here

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: What do you look for in a Machine Shop/ Engine Builder? - 08/17/12 08:42 PM

I`ve been going to Pettis for years like, Jason was a kid years and will continue to do so till I`m too far away to make it happen. I like using the same people(if possible)do do my work in many areas of my life..........been going to the same parts store for 15+ years also. I like it when people know me by name, respect me and are honest........good or bad and Pettis has given me that and a motor that runs pretty well for the junk that`s in it.........

Posted By: polyspheric

Re: What do you look for in a Machine Shop/ Engine Builder? - 08/18/12 03:39 PM

You have to get used to the fact that some experts (meaning: excellent work, few failures) are not nice people.
Big ego, never on time, liar, won't accept criticism, out to make every buck, bad-mouths all competitors.

No, I won't give a name.

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: What do you look for in a Machine Shop/ Engine Builder? - 08/18/12 05:17 PM

Quote:

You have to get used to the fact that some experts (meaning: excellent work, few failures) are not nice people.
Big ego, never on time, liar, won't accept criticism, out to make every buck, bad-mouths all competitors.

No, I won't give a name.

This applys to some(Indy)but not all and I`ve met those types and never gave them the time of day or a dime of my money. There are a few on here who I wouldn`t think twice about doing my work if/when I re-locate..............

Posted By: SmokeyBurnout 67

Re: What do you look for in a Machine Shop/ Engine Builder? - 08/21/12 04:37 PM

Everyone is different and has different needs. Engine builders should listen to what their customer wants, how the car/truck is being used etc in order to make the best judgement on what the customer would need. Many customers come to use with what they think they want because everyone told them it was "cool" or bigger is better- not always the case and typically they are wrong. We have quick educational session, outline a suggestion and let the customer make the decision on what will work for them. Engine builders (if they arent doing their own machining) should already have a machine shop they deal with, you the customer shouldnt have to worry about that. Just my two cents.

KJ

What do you look for in a Machine Shop/ Engine Builder?