SB bronze distributor gear- how to install, longevity??

Posted By: mshred

SB bronze distributor gear- how to install, longevity?? - 05/13/12 03:28 AM

Hey guys,

So this is kinda a loaded question. I have a hydraulic roller cam from comp ground on a billet core. I also received a bronze drive gear as well. I have my old oil pump driveshaft, and I noticed that the new gear from comp has a hole for a pin. How do I go about getting this new gear on the old shaft? Does the old gear press off? Also, does anyone know what size pin I need to hold the new gear on?

My second question is this- I did a quick search a found alot of guys asking about the longevity of these gears, which has me worried

This is a street car that sees upwards of 3000 miles a year, and I don't want that gear getting all chewed up. Im going to be running Brad Penn grade 1 10W40 oil in it, but other than that, what can I do to help this thing live? Or is not even something I should be concerned about?

Thanks!
Matthew

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: SB bronze distributor gear- how to install, longevity?? - 05/13/12 02:33 PM

Yes they press off... I dont remember the pin size...
being that your running hyd roller you dont have the
big spring pressures that the solids do... with the
big pressures the cam tends to snap over which hits
the gears pretty hard causing the wear so I dont think
you'll have a problem

Posted By: mshred

Re: SB bronze distributor gear- how to install, longevity?? - 05/13/12 06:22 PM

Quote:

Yes they press off... I dont remember the pin size...
being that your running hyd roller you dont have the
big spring pressures that the solids do... with the
big pressures the cam tends to snap over which hits
the gears pretty hard causing the wear so I dont think
you'll have a problem

Thanks for the info Mr. P! Anyone else know the pin size off hand? Anyone want to share street mile experience using these things?

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: SB bronze distributor gear- how to install, longevity?? - 05/13/12 06:50 PM

Just changed out my gear only and had Pettis press it on the MP shaft using just a roll pin which everyone feels should work fine being it`s a solid press fit. I suggest the rollerized torrington mod where you mill the .140 difference of the bottom of the gear then the wear bet. the bushing and gears on the bottom is nill and the gear mesh pattern will be more consistant. My bushing was wore over .040 and now my timing barely varies 1 degree...............well worth it.

Posted By: Guitar Jones

Re: SB bronze distributor gear- how to install, longevity?? - 05/13/12 06:55 PM

I believe the pin size is either 1/8 or 3/16 I can't remember. I had some cold rolled steel rod at the house that I used for a pin and just peened the ends over a little.

Posted By: mshred

Re: SB bronze distributor gear- how to install, longevity?? - 05/13/12 08:17 PM

Quote:

Just changed out my gear only and had Pettis press it on the MP shaft using just a roll pin which everyone feels should work fine being it`s a solid press fit. I suggest the rollerized torrington mod where you mill the .140 difference of the bottom of the gear then the wear bet. the bushing and gears on the bottom is nill and the gear mesh pattern will be more consistant. My bushing was wore over .040 and now my timing barely varies 1 degree...............well worth it.

so this mod that you speak of is simply machining a certain amount of material off the bottom of the gear?

Posted By: mshred

Re: SB bronze distributor gear- how to install, longevity?? - 05/13/12 08:18 PM

Quote:

I believe the pin size is either 1/8 or 3/16 I can't remember. I had some cold rolled steel rod at the house that I used for a pin and just peened the ends over a little.

Thanks for that info man!

Would also like to hear some opinions of how well these things hold up to LOTS of street driving?

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: SB bronze distributor gear- how to install, longevity?? - 05/13/12 09:00 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Just changed out my gear only and had Pettis press it on the MP shaft using just a roll pin which everyone feels should work fine being it`s a solid press fit. I suggest the rollerized torrington mod where you mill the .140 difference of the bottom of the gear then the wear bet. the bushing and gears on the bottom is nill and the gear mesh pattern will be more consistant. My bushing was wore over .040 and now my timing barely varies 1 degree...............well worth it.

so this mod that you speak of is simply machining a certain amount of material off the bottom of the gear?

Yes providing your bushing is not wore out like mine was............new bushing, new gear and in my case .140 minus the bushing wear put me a bit higher than original...............

Posted By: onig

Re: SB bronze distributor gear- how to install, longevity?? - 05/14/12 04:30 AM

I have never changed a dist drive gear. The original gear does NOT have a pin in it. So would I have to drill out the shaft to install a pin?

onig

Posted By: Guitar Jones

Re: SB bronze distributor gear- how to install, longevity?? - 05/14/12 10:37 AM

Quote:

I have never changed a dist drive gear. The original gear does NOT have a pin in it. So would I have to drill out the shaft to install a pin?

onig

I believe the hardened tip drives have a pin, stock ones do not. There may be exceptions though. These things are tight on that shaft, so I don't know if pinning it is really necessary but I doubt you could drill it anyway it would need to be machined.

Posted By: mshred

Re: SB bronze distributor gear- how to install, longevity?? - 05/15/12 01:24 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I have never changed a dist drive gear. The original gear does NOT have a pin in it. So would I have to drill out the shaft to install a pin?

onig

I believe the hardened tip drives have a pin, stock ones do not. There may be exceptions though. These things are tight on that shaft, so I don't know if pinning it is really necessary but I doubt you could drill it anyway it would need to be machined.

This is what I currently have
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MEL-IS-72

and it looks like this is what I will need?

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/DCC-3690715/?rtype=10

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MIL-21530/

More unforeseen spending

Posted By: Scamp408

Re: SB bronze distributor gear- how to install, longevity?? - 05/15/12 10:00 AM

Milodon makes a bronze cheaper than the mp one.

Posted By: Guitar Jones

Re: SB bronze distributor gear- how to install, longevity?? - 05/15/12 10:56 AM

Buy the MP one and get the bronze gear from Comp Cams and change it. You'll be about $100 in to it.

Posted By: mshred

Re: SB bronze distributor gear- how to install, longevity?? - 05/15/12 09:59 PM

well I just ordered the MP shaft with the pin, and already have the gear from Comp.

Curious now about longevity issues....How do these things fair to a LOT of street miles??? This is what is really worrying me the most since I street this car ALL the time

Posted By: Guitar Jones

Re: SB bronze distributor gear- how to install, longevity?? - 05/15/12 10:09 PM

That I can't answer, I gave up driving my cars on the street about 20 years ago after some Q tip plowed me from behind.

Posted By: rickraw

Re: SB bronze distributor gear- how to install, longevity?? - 05/15/12 10:33 PM

can't give a exact milage number. my car was mainly raced with limited street use. i put over 1000 street miles, then changed it last year. i would just quess 2000 miles, then check it.

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: SB bronze distributor gear- how to install, longevity?? - 05/15/12 10:46 PM

Quote:

well I just ordered the MP shaft with the pin, and already have the gear from Comp.

Curious now about longevity issues....How do these things fair to a LOT of street miles??? This is what is really worrying me the most since I street this car ALL the time

I believe Comp Cams stated that a customers car put 40,000-50,000 street miles on one.............I personally have changed mine twice in almost 8 years and they were fairly worn BUT, I also had the bushing in the bock going south and didn`t have the collar to prevent the gear from climbing up..............

Posted By: mshred

Re: SB bronze distributor gear- how to install, longevity?? - 05/16/12 10:58 PM

these few numbers aren't exactly making me feel confident lol.

Thumper, what collar are you talking about that prevents the gear from "riding up"?

Posted By: Moparnut426

Re: SB bronze distributor gear- how to install, longevity?? - 05/16/12 11:11 PM

Any lock collar that you can find to keep the gear from climbing up the cam. The collar goes on the distributor. I have a kit from hughes, and they come with detailed instructions. I reused the bronze gear out of my 360 build, It had barely 1000 miles on it by the time my 408 was done. It looked new.

But it wasnt a solid roller it was a hydro roller. Now I have a solid roller with typical solid roller spring pressure on it. I did everything I could to keep the shaft alive. New bushing, collar on the distributor, and used a LOT of molley on the gear prior to fireing it up.

I also used glyptal inside the engine to allow better oil drain back back by the distributor gear. I have seen crud, and chunks of crap back there causing oil not to get into the bushing, so I basically built up the step where the bushing goes into the block with some engine epoxy so the draining back oil can get in to the bushing and not get channeled around it.

Over kill, maybee, but I am not out anything.

If I knew of the milling idea and torrington bearing I would have done that too.

I highly recomend the collar deal your Timing will be ROCK steady. Also a very good timing set helps too.

Posted By: mshred

Re: SB bronze distributor gear- how to install, longevity?? - 05/16/12 11:17 PM

Quote:

Any lock collar that you can find to keep the gear from climbing up the cam. The collar goes on the distributor. I have a kit from hughes, and they come with detailed instructions. I reused the bronze gear out of my 360 build, It had barely 1000 miles on it by the time my 408 was done. It looked new.

But it wasnt a solid roller it was a hydro roller. Now I have a solid roller with typical solid roller spring pressure on it. I did everything I could to keep the shaft alive. New bushing, collar on the distributor, and used a LOT of molley on the gear prior to fireing it up.

I also used glyptal inside the engine to allow better oil drain back back by the distributor gear. I have seen crud, and chunks of crap back there causing oil not to get into the bushing, so I basically built up the step where the bushing goes into the block with some engine epoxy so the draining back oil can get in to the bushing and not get channeled around it.

Over kill, maybee, but I am not out anything.

If I knew of the milling idea and torrington bearing I would have done that too.

I highly recomend the collar deal your Timing will be ROCK steady. Also a very good timing set helps too.

Thanks for the advice Kasey!

I just checked the Hughes website and can't seem to find this collar you are mentioning? Those are some other really good tips you mentioned as well.

This cam is also a hydraulic roller, not a solid, so hopefully that will help? lol

About the Torrington bearing mod, Thumper, do you have a picture of it? Im not quite able to picture it, unless I am just reading your first posts description wrong?

Posted By: Moparnut426

Re: SB bronze distributor gear- how to install, longevity?? - 05/16/12 11:19 PM

Here ya go buddy!!

http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/produ...mp;partid=25200

Posted By: mshred

Re: SB bronze distributor gear- how to install, longevity?? - 05/16/12 11:19 PM

nvm just found it
http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/produ...mp;partid=25200

I wonder how hard it would be to make that

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: SB bronze distributor gear- how to install, longevity?? - 05/17/12 12:36 AM

Quote:

these few numbers aren't exactly making me feel confident lol.

Thumper, what collar are you talking about that prevents the gear from "riding up"?

Mine`s plastic that I cut to fit w/just a slight bit of pressure on it when tight now that I have the torrington set up...........

Posted By: MattW

Re: SB bronze distributor gear- how to install, longevity?? - 05/17/12 12:44 AM

You should be able to fab one or buy something at a industrial shop.
As for your bronze gear from MP I paid around 75 dollars for one from a dealer. OVER HERE.

Posted By: TrWaters

Re: SB bronze distributor gear- how to install, longevity?? - 05/17/12 02:37 AM

Maybe something like this. I make these that actually fit the shaft...not .500 inch ones you buy at the hardware store.

Posted By: DusterW2

Re: SB bronze distributor gear- how to install, longevity?? - 05/17/12 11:50 AM

Distributor / oil pump shaft Torrington Bearing

Attached picture 7209668-82cc_3.jpeg

Posted By: DusterW2

Re: SB bronze distributor gear- how to install, longevity?? - 05/17/12 11:51 AM

Pic 2

Posted By: DusterW2

Re: SB bronze distributor gear- how to install, longevity?? - 05/17/12 11:52 AM

Pic 3

Posted By: 70VcodeCoronetRT

Re: SB bronze distributor gear- how to install, longevity?? - 05/17/12 01:01 PM

Thats nice Dusterw2. Someone need to sell those complete like that.

Posted By: mshred

Re: SB bronze distributor gear- how to install, longevity?? - 05/17/12 01:32 PM

Quote:

Thats nice Dusterw2. Someone need to sell those complete like that.

Agreed! What is the part number for that bearing?

Posted By: mshred

Re: SB bronze distributor gear- how to install, longevity?? - 05/17/12 01:35 PM

Quote:

You should be able to fab one or buy something at a industrial shop.
As for your bronze gear from MP I paid around 75 dollars for one from a dealer. OVER HERE.

I ordered the gear from Summit the other day since I had to get some other stuff from them...50 opposed to the 70 when I called the dealer (you were spot on)

As for the collar, I think im going to try to fab something up just because Im really trying to get this thing together and don't want to wait for another part to arrive in the mail

Just have to measure the distributor to see what the ID of the collar should be

Posted By: Moparnut426

Re: SB bronze distributor gear- how to install, longevity?? - 05/17/12 01:45 PM

You can also measure the distance from where the top of the drive gear, and the bottom of the distributor and make a plastic shaft that goes over the distributor shaft and holds the gear down when the distributor is in. Then you wouldnt need to tie it to the distributor shaft, it would just float on the distributor.

Posted By: DusterW2

Re: SB bronze distributor gear- how to install, longevity?? - 05/17/12 04:44 PM

Shaft Collars - Local Grainger Dealer

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/shaft-c.../ecatalog/N-clj

Needle Thrust Bearings -

http://www.nationalprecision.com/needle-bearings/thrust.html

For a 0.500" shaft, Torrington needle thrust

Bearing NTA 815 (1)

Washer TRA 815 (2)

Verify dimensions for bearing and washer on pump shaft and gear, machine to fit.

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: SB bronze distributor gear- how to install, longevity?? - 05/17/12 06:17 PM

Quote:

Distributor / oil pump shaft Torrington Bearing

That`s exactly what I have and my timing varies less than 1 degree.......

Posted By: RAMM

Re: SB bronze distributor gear- how to install, longevity?? - 05/17/12 08:14 PM

Why would you want to put another source of teeny tiny steel thingys in your engine? The collar I understand and like--the torrington bearing-not so much. Oh and to answer your question MShred---Yes your bronze gear is going to wear--they are a consumable. Why did you get a hydro roller on a billet shaft? They work just as well on a cast core and you wouldn't have to run the bronze gear to boot. J.Rob

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: SB bronze distributor gear- how to install, longevity?? - 05/17/12 08:31 PM

Quote:

Why would you want to put another source of teeny tiny steel thingys in your engine? The collar I understand and like--the torrington bearing-not so much. Oh and to answer your question MShred---Yes your bronze gear is going to wear--they are a consumable. Why did you get a hydro roller on a billet shaft? They work just as well on a cast core and you wouldn't have to run the bronze gear to boot. J.Rob

Because it`s 2012 and things get BETTER sometimes plus the needles are samwitched between the washers unlike the set screw for the collar which is swinging in the wind...........

Posted By: Moparnut426

Re: SB bronze distributor gear- how to install, longevity?? - 05/17/12 08:55 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Why would you want to put another source of teeny tiny steel thingys in your engine? The collar I understand and like--the torrington bearing-not so much. Oh and to answer your question MShred---Yes your bronze gear is going to wear--they are a consumable. Why did you get a hydro roller on a billet shaft? They work just as well on a cast core and you wouldn't have to run the bronze gear to boot. J.Rob

Because it`s 2012 and things get BETTER sometimes plus the needles are samwitched between the washers unlike the set screw for the collar which is swinging in the wind...........

Mine isnt swinging in the wind, Im a little over cautious and I put a hose clamp around mine so the screw wouldnt come out in the engine.

Posted By: mshred

Re: SB bronze distributor gear- how to install, longevity?? - 05/17/12 09:14 PM

Quote:

Why would you want to put another source of teeny tiny steel thingys in your engine? The collar I understand and like--the torrington bearing-not so much. Oh and to answer your question MShred---Yes your bronze gear is going to wear--they are a consumable. Why did you get a hydro roller on a billet shaft? They work just as well on a cast core and you wouldn't have to run the bronze gear to boot. J.Rob

Comp sent it to me on a Billet core after an issue I had with tracking marks on the lobes of a cast core...I never requested the billet core, they just sent it that way...kinda wishing they didnt now

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: SB bronze distributor gear- how to install, longevity?? - 05/17/12 11:43 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Why would you want to put another source of teeny tiny steel thingys in your engine? The collar I understand and like--the torrington bearing-not so much. Oh and to answer your question MShred---Yes your bronze gear is going to wear--they are a consumable. Why did you get a hydro roller on a billet shaft? They work just as well on a cast core and you wouldn't have to run the bronze gear to boot. J.Rob

Because it`s 2012 and things get BETTER sometimes plus the needles are samwitched between the washers unlike the set screw for the collar which is swinging in the wind...........

Mine isnt swinging in the wind, Im a little over cautious and I put a hose clamp around mine so the screw wouldnt come out in the engine.

So now you have a component holding a spinning object that wasn`t designed for anythingg but clamping hoses.................

Posted By: Moparnut426

Re: SB bronze distributor gear- how to install, longevity?? - 05/18/12 03:15 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Why would you want to put another source of teeny tiny steel thingys in your engine? The collar I understand and like--the torrington bearing-not so much. Oh and to answer your question MShred---Yes your bronze gear is going to wear--they are a consumable. Why did you get a hydro roller on a billet shaft? They work just as well on a cast core and you wouldn't have to run the bronze gear to boot. J.Rob

Because it`s 2012 and things get BETTER sometimes plus the needles are samwitched between the washers unlike the set screw for the collar which is swinging in the wind...........

Mine isnt swinging in the wind, Im a little over cautious and I put a hose clamp around mine so the screw wouldnt come out in the engine.

So now you have a component holding a spinning object that wasn`t designed for anythingg but clamping hoses.................

YEP, the same object that is used in dealer applications to balance driveshafts. Ive had to do that after talking with a chrysler tech assistance dude on a dodge durango.

They work fine that way,

Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: SB bronze distributor gear- how to install, longevity?? - 05/18/12 04:50 AM

At least the driveshaft deal is EXTERNAL not inside the motor but hey, if it works...........