Moparts

installing a roll cage

Posted By: wj440

installing a roll cage - 05/02/12 12:58 AM

Well after five years... My son and I are finally getting started on our other project. My question Is.. Is there a right or wrong way to install the bar that goes in between the door jams. Over the years I've seen some that is parallel with the door jam.. Or leaning back with the contour of the side window. I was just wondering if there was a correct way to do this.

Thanks.. Walt

Attached picture 7188340-avengerrearend009(Medium).jpg
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: installing a roll cage - 05/02/12 01:09 AM

It should go from where you have the bend in your
main hoop to the bottom of the knee loop... if you
want to put a bend in the door bar you should put
a bar in the goes from the door bar back to the
main hoop... triangulate
EDIT
it might end up just below that bend in the main hoop...
where the cross bar will go
Posted By: Moparpoor

Re: installing a roll cage - 05/02/12 01:39 AM

I think he is talking about the main hoop and not the cross bar.
If he is,yes you want the main hoop close to the the door post/door latch area.Yes you can lay the hoop back up to 20*.I will have to double check that.The alignment to the door post isn't exact.You may adjust it to your liking within a few inches.
Posted By: Evil Spirit

Re: installing a roll cage - 05/02/12 02:42 AM

The rules don't locate the bar off the car - they locate it off the DRIVER. We put the pedals, steering column, and seat in, make the driver "fit", then locate the main hoop in the proper relationship to his head. We usually follow the B pillar (or rear of drivers window) for the angle of the main hoop.
Granted, this approach makes a cage set up for a large or tall driver in the wrong spot for a short one, but it's easier to move the seat forward than it is to cut out the main hoop or crossbar.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: installing a roll cage - 05/02/12 02:49 AM

Quote:

I think he is talking about the main hoop and not the cross bar.
If he is,yes you want the main hoop close to the the door post/door latch area.Yes you can lay the hoop back up to 20*.I will have to double check that.The alignment to the door post isn't exact.You may adjust it to your liking within a few inches.



The way I read it he was asking about the door bar
EDIT
I think he might be talking the horizontal bar that
mounts behind the driver... that location is dictated
by the drivers height.. need to be below the shoulder
but no more than 3"(I believe)... check the NHRA
rule book)
Posted By: AAR-B4

Re: installing a roll cage - 05/02/12 02:57 AM

Door bar should pass between drivers elbow and shoulder when in the seated position. I would not angle the main hoop more than 5 degrees. The main hoop should be 4 inches above the top of the driver head (with helmet) when seated.
Refer to the NHRA rules.
Posted By: THE GLASS MAN

Re: installing a roll cage - 05/02/12 03:00 AM

O-K, you have your roll cage in and it is certified for 8.50 and it is a full bodied car. Does it need a window net ? I say yes, but our cage builder says no, it doesn't need one. Who is right?
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: installing a roll cage - 05/02/12 03:03 AM

Quote:

O-K, you have your roll cage in and it is certified for 8.50 and it is a full bodied car. Does it need a window net ? I say yes, but our cage builder says no, it doesn't need one. Who is right?



I dont use my net at most tracks and no one says anything
but at National Trails they make me put it up... if
its certed to 8.50 you should have/use it
Posted By: Evil Spirit

Re: installing a roll cage - 05/02/12 03:07 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I think he is talking about the main hoop and not the cross bar.
If he is,yes you want the main hoop close to the the door post/door latch area.Yes you can lay the hoop back up to 20*.I will have to double check that.The alignment to the door post isn't exact.You may adjust it to your liking within a few inches.



The way I read it he was asking about the door bar
EDIT
I think he might be talking the horizontal bar that
mounts behind the driver... that location is dictated
by the drivers height.. need to be below the shoulder
but no more than 3"(I believe)... check the NHRA
rule book)




Raff, by the way he references the angle of the window, I think he is asking about the (vertical) placement of the main hoop.
Posted By: Evil Spirit

Re: installing a roll cage - 05/02/12 03:10 AM

Quote:

Door bar should pass between drivers elbow and shoulder when in the seated position. I would not angle the main hoop more than 5 degrees. The main hoop should be 4 inches above the top of the driver head (with helmet) when seated.
Refer to the NHRA rules.



I think it also has to be within 6" (front to rear) of his head.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: installing a roll cage - 05/02/12 03:19 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I think he is talking about the main hoop and not the cross bar.
If he is,yes you want the main hoop close to the the door post/door latch area.Yes you can lay the hoop back up to 20*.I will have to double check that.The alignment to the door post isn't exact.You may adjust it to your liking within a few inches.



The way I read it he was asking about the door bar
EDIT
I think he might be talking the horizontal bar that
mounts behind the driver... that location is dictated
by the drivers height.. need to be below the shoulder
but no more than 3"(I believe)... check the NHRA
rule book)




Raff, by the way he references the angle of the window, I think he is asking about the (vertical) placement of the main hoop.



After RE-reading it again I THINK your correct
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: installing a roll cage - 05/02/12 03:32 AM

Looking at the pic with the main hoopI would move it
back about 3".. set a seat in there ON A ANGLE thats
comfortable (so that the drivers legs are being supported
by the seat bottom) and see where his head/helmet
is located... with his foot flat on the floor(gas
pedal).. thats how I set it up for customers... his
head/helmet cant be behind the main hoop
Posted By: jamesc

Re: installing a roll cage - 05/02/12 03:41 AM

Quote:

O-K, you have your roll cage in and it is certified for 8.50 and it is a full bodied car. Does it need a window net ? I say yes, but our cage builder says no, it doesn't need one. Who is right?






Quote:

6:3 WINDOW NET
An SFI 27.1 ribbon-type or mesh-type window net is mandatory on
any full-bodied car required by the rules to have a roll cage.



as usual it's a gray area. if the car is REQUIRED to have a cage then it is REQUIRED to have a net. so what happens if you're running a 10.50 car with a cage? it's not required (with unaltered floor/firewall) so even though it has a cage i don't see where it should have to have a net.

just like the stories of people running an expired harness in a class not required to have a harness.

i've heard of people getting bounced because the harness is expired...gimme a break. it's not ok to use a 25 month old, tugboat towing worthy three inch five point racing harness that there's absolutely nothing wrong with except greed but it IS ok to use a 40 year old two inch lap belt
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: installing a roll cage - 05/02/12 03:47 AM

Quote:

Quote:

O-K, you have your roll cage in and it is certified for 8.50 and it is a full bodied car. Does it need a window net ? I say yes, but our cage builder says no, it doesn't need one. Who is right?






Quote:

6:3 WINDOW NET
An SFI 27.1 ribbon-type or mesh-type window net is mandatory on
any full-bodied car required by the rules to have a roll cage.



as usual it's a gray area. if the car is REQUIRED to have a cage then it is REQUIRED to have a net. so what happens if you're running a 10.50 car with a cage? it's not required (with unaltered floor/firewall) so even though it has a cage i don't see where it should have to have a net.

just like the stories of people running an expired harness in a class not required to have a harness.

i've heard of people getting bounced because the harness is expired...gimme a break. it's not ok to use a 25 month old, tugboat towing worthy three inch five point racing harness that there's absolutely nothing wrong with except greed but it IS ok to use a 40 year old two inch lap belt



I know guys that cut the cert tag off... if its not
required and they are fine... my Rampage has a full
cage but I will run 10.0 or slower so I sure hope
I dont need a net(dont want one... its a street car)
Posted By: Crizila

Re: installing a roll cage - 05/02/12 03:59 AM

I suggest you start with the seat positioning first, as most the measurements will revolve around the drivers position in the seat. Main hoop needs to be within 6" of the rear, or side, of the drivers head, extend in height at least 3" above the drivers helmet with the driver in the normal driving position and at least as wide as the drivers shoulders or within 1" of the drivers door. Side bar must pass the driver at a point midway between the shoulder and elbow. Main hoop cross bar ( where you attach the shoulder harness), must be installed not more than 4" below, and not above, the drivers shoulders. My harness instructions pretty much say the same thing.

Attached picture 7188689-300caged.jpg
Posted By: Bigbeep

Re: installing a roll cage - 05/02/12 04:08 AM

My two cents are that you should be building this cage with the current rule book on the bench with your tools, but I can give you this from the current NHRA rule book in general regulations.

Full-Bodied cars:
On full-bodied cars with driver in driving position, helmet must be in front of main hoop. If helmet is behind or under main hoop, additional tubing same size and thickness as roll cage must be added to protect driver. Main hoop may be laid back or forward, but driver must be encapsulated within the required roll-cage components.

Then it goes on to read of the different ways the cage can be mounted to the floor or frame depending on if it is a unibody or full frame type vehicle.

Again, I think you should pick a rule book up. I agree some of the wording may be confusing or vague. But it may clear up some "grey" areas. Hope this helps, Beep
Posted By: Chad Bittle

Re: installing a roll cage - 05/02/12 05:30 AM

thanks for all the replies everyone. He was unsure if that vertical bar could be leaned forward/back or had to be perfectly horiztonal. There are about 3 different angles to work off of to make it 'look right' inside the door jam. I was almost positive there was a rule about where the driver had to be in location with that bar. This will HOPEFULLY be a 10 second street/strip car.



For now Thanks again for all the quick replies.
Posted By: dvw

Re: installing a roll cage - 05/02/12 10:38 AM

Quote:

Well after five years... My son and I are finally getting started on our other project. My question Is.. Is there a right or wrong way to install the bar that goes in between the door jams. Over the years I've seen some that is parallel with the door jam.. Or leaning back with the contour of the side window. I was just wondering if there was a correct way to do this.

Thanks.. Walt



Yes you can lean it back to match the window post angle. Looks better ,mine is done like that. I E-mailed my division 3 tech director Rich Bowers every time I had a cage question (and saved the E-mails).
Good luck Doug
Posted By: smokinwoody

Re: installing a roll cage - 05/02/12 01:16 PM

Quote:

thanks for all the replies everyone. He was unsure if that vertical bar could be leaned forward/back or had to be perfectly horiztonal. There are about 3 different angles to work off of to make it 'look right' inside the door jam. I was almost positive there was a rule about where the driver had to be in location with that bar. This will HOPEFULLY be a 10 second street/strip car.



For now Thanks again for all the quick replies.



I started doing mine...well I havent spent any time on it in the last month or so..

anyways, I think, what I saw in the pic, that you were trying to run parallel to the door frame?..in any case it has to be within 6" of the drivers helmet..you dont want to be sitting under it...

this is what mine looks like so far..sorta like yours..





Posted By: wj440

Re: installing a roll cage - 05/02/12 02:25 PM

First I would like to say sorry Mr. P for leading you up the wrong path. I should explained it better. My concern was about the main hoop. Just over the years I've noticed that some people have them in their different. Just didn't know if there was any rules.. Indicating how the bar (not including measurements from helmet) had to be setting in their.

Thanks for all your help and info
Walt

Attached picture 7189027-avengerrearend011(Medium).jpg
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: installing a roll cage - 05/02/12 02:27 PM

No problem.. was me just not understanding
Posted By: 6PKRTSE

Re: installing a roll cage - 05/02/12 06:00 PM

Here is how we did mine in my 70 Challenger. Just certed for 7:50 a couple of weeks ago. We thought about angling the main hoop to follow the side window angle but it was a little to much of angle for our liking.

Attached picture 7189281-ChallengerProgress033[640x480].jpg
Posted By: Guitar Jones

Re: installing a roll cage - 05/02/12 08:59 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

O-K, you have your roll cage in and it is certified for 8.50 and it is a full bodied car. Does it need a window net ? I say yes, but our cage builder says no, it doesn't need one. Who is right?






Quote:

6:3 WINDOW NET
An SFI 27.1 ribbon-type or mesh-type window net is mandatory on
any full-bodied car required by the rules to have a roll cage.



as usual it's a gray area. if the car is REQUIRED to have a cage then it is REQUIRED to have a net. so what happens if you're running a 10.50 car with a cage? it's not required (with unaltered floor/firewall) so even though it has a cage i don't see where it should have to have a net.

just like the stories of people running an expired harness in a class not required to have a harness.

i've heard of people getting bounced because the harness is expired...gimme a break. it's not ok to use a 25 month old, tugboat towing worthy three inch five point racing harness that there's absolutely nothing wrong with except greed but it IS ok to use a 40 year old two inch lap belt



I know guys that cut the cert tag off... if its not
required and they are fine... my Rampage has a full
cage but I will run 10.0 or slower so I sure hope
I dont need a net(dont want one... its a street car)




If it has a cage it needs a net.
Posted By: jamesc

Re: installing a roll cage - 05/02/12 09:16 PM

Quote:

If it has a cage it needs a net.




where does it say that? it says if the car is required to have a cage it needs a net. what if the car is not required to have a cage but has one? just as i'm typing this i thought of a racer i know (very successful i might add) that has a 11.20 second A body that i'm almost certain has a cage in it but no net, he's run a lot of different tracks that way.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: installing a roll cage - 05/02/12 09:41 PM

Quote:

Quote:

If it has a cage it needs a net.




where does it say that? it says if the car is required to have a cage it needs a net. what if the car is not required to have a cage but has one? just as i'm typing this i thought of a racer i know (very successful i might add) that has a 11.20 second A body that i'm almost certain has a cage in it but no net, he's run a lot of different tracks that way.



I'm not planning on a net... to my understanding its
just required sub 10.0 which at that point requires
a full cage
Posted By: Guitar Jones

Re: installing a roll cage - 05/02/12 09:42 PM

Many tracks may not care but when we were building my car I found it in the rulebook, I'll have to find it but it's in there. I asked a couple chassis builders first and they told me the same thing, so I looked and it was in there.

EDIT: I'll look and post it but it won't be tonight, got a date...
Posted By: Moparpoor

Re: installing a roll cage - 05/03/12 01:52 AM

Window nets are required for 9.99 and quicker.

As for the main hoop question.The seat can be no more than 6" in front of the main hoop.The main hoop can be laid back at no more than 20*.Your helmet must rest below the main hoop a minimum of 1".The drivers position dictates the hoop position.Hope this answers your question.These are right from SFI specs.
Posted By: max_maniac

Re: installing a roll cage - 05/03/12 02:39 AM

This will HOPEFULLY be a 10 second street/strip car.



You planning on using my old throttle stop


Russ
Posted By: Chad Bittle

Re: installing a roll cage - 05/03/12 05:37 AM

Quote:

This will HOPEFULLY be a 10 second street/strip car.



You planning on using my old throttle stop


Russ



Only if there is a warranty.
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