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WideBand 02 Results

Posted By: 6bblFLASH

WideBand 02 Results - 05/02/12 12:07 AM

Finally got the Innovate Wideband 02 in AND working properly.
Took it out for its 1st drive.
Idle 13.5--14.5
Cruise 11.7--12.2 rich
Power 13.5 steady too lean.

So now the chase begins.
Max power is pretty easy to fix,cruise may be more of a challenge.

Attached picture 7188253-DSC00009.JPG
Posted By: Clanton

Re: WideBand 02 Results - 05/02/12 12:39 AM

it is still progress knowing the results!what is the carb list# and any mods to it?
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: WideBand 02 Results - 05/02/12 01:01 AM

I dont even waste my time using it for idle... get
it so it idles nice then take a reading... like you
said cruise is always the harder part
Posted By: pattyboy 572

Re: WideBand 02 Results - 05/02/12 02:12 AM

Is there anything else out there worth purchasing , other than the innovate lm-2 ????? thanks ,pat
Posted By: hemi-itis

Re: WideBand 02 Results - 05/02/12 02:34 AM

Quote:

Is there anything else out there worth purchasing , other than the innovate lm-2 ????? thanks ,pat



Pat,do you have a RoadRunner?
Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: WideBand 02 Results - 05/02/12 02:41 AM

I don`t focus too much on idle either as long as it`s crisp and clean and doesn`t load up I`m cool w/that...........cruise however is a bear w/my 1050 which varies a bit bet. 11.8-12.5 accordingly and wot is around 12.5-12.8.................
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: WideBand 02 Results - 05/02/12 03:11 AM

Even at WOT I still run for best MPH then take a
reading so its easier to get back to that if I change
something... cruise is always the hard point... is
it on the level... up a minor grade... it all plays in
Posted By: 67_Satellite

Re: WideBand 02 Results - 05/02/12 03:23 AM

Bear in mind that if you have a "perfect" 14.7:1 a.f.r. at cruise, you'll probably have a few lean and rich cylinders somewhere. I got to the high 13's at cruise and called it good enough. I have my o2 sensor mounted 12" from the turbine outlet, so I know all the exhaust is thoroughly mixed by then.
Posted By: pattyboy 572

Re: WideBand 02 Results - 05/02/12 03:41 AM

yes al its me........
Posted By: Mr.Yuck

Re: WideBand 02 Results - 05/02/12 12:21 PM

drop the primary jetting one and add one to the 2ndary. I ran 74/86's in my S/C'd 440. Pretty much the same engine you have. Very mild 440 w/ 6psi of boost. No idea of my readings all I had was the cheapo A/F gague w/ the red yellow yellow green yellow yellow red lights. stayed in the green to 1st yellow al the time.
Posted By: Tig

Re: WideBand 02 Results - 05/02/12 12:41 PM

Sorry to Hijack but here's a lttle tip.
DO NOT leave the plastics protective covers on the end of your O2 sensors, while you turn the power on checking out your new ignition system. The sensor heaters will melt them and damage the sensors.
Dont ask me how I know
Posted By: LAR_414

Re: WideBand 02 Results - 05/02/12 12:58 PM

You have to approach it in the following order:
-Idle
-Transition
-Cruise
-Moderate powering up
-WOT

Each circuit plays into WOT (even if it's small). You do that one LAST!

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Posted By: Dabee

Re: WideBand 02 Results - 05/02/12 02:19 PM

Quote:

Bear in mind that if you have a "perfect" 14.7:1 a.f.r. at cruise, you'll probably have a few lean and rich cylinders somewhere. I got to the high 13's at cruise and called it good enough. I have my o2 sensor mounted 12" from the turbine outlet, so I know all the exhaust is thoroughly mixed by then.



If you are running 10% ethanol pump gas your ideal AFR is 14.1 to 1.

Attached picture 7189021-6738904-EthanolPercentageAirFuelratiotable.jpg
Posted By: Bad340fish

Re: WideBand 02 Results - 05/02/12 03:21 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Bear in mind that if you have a "perfect" 14.7:1 a.f.r. at cruise, you'll probably have a few lean and rich cylinders somewhere. I got to the high 13's at cruise and called it good enough. I have my o2 sensor mounted 12" from the turbine outlet, so I know all the exhaust is thoroughly mixed by then.



If you are running 10% ethanol pump gas your ideal AFR is 14.1 to 1.



Thanks for posting that chart. I recently decided to just suck it up and start putting the 10% ethanol in my car. The 100% gas is hard to find and around here they are asking as much at .25-.40 more per gallon for it. I have some jetting to do.
Posted By: @#$%&*!

Re: WideBand 02 Results - 05/02/12 06:37 PM

Quote:



If you are running 10% ethanol pump gas your ideal AFR is 14.1 to 1.



While that may be technically true you can only use that info IF your wideband system is SET with a 14.1:1 stoich value. If your system is set to display gasoline stoich of 14.7:1 you can still use 14.7 as a stoich value when reading the numbers displayed regardless what fuel you're using.
Wideband systems measure oxygen presence and produce a variable numerical output value represented by the Greek letter Lambda. The value for Lambda at stoichiometry is 1.00. If the wideband system user sets the device to display s stoichiometry value of 14.7 (or any other number) the device simply multiplies Lambda by 14.7 (or whatever number is used). This does not change anything about how the device makes the measurement and the device does not care what fuel is being used.
Whoever created that chart was well-meaning and technically correct but has created a communication nightmare where now people can't disuss AFRs without stating what stoich value the reading was taken with (and requiring math to convert to ones familiar scale). It would be much better if everyone just used Lambda (1.00) or 14.7, regardless what fuel is being used. The wideband system doesn't know or care.
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: WideBand 02 Results - 05/02/12 08:00 PM

Quote:

Finally got the Innovate Wideband 02 in AND working properly.
Took it out for its 1st drive.
Idle 13.5--14.5
Cruise 11.7--12.2 rich
Power 13.5 steady too lean.

So now the chase begins.
Max power is pretty easy to fix,cruise may be more of a challenge.

I'm going to assume when you say power you mean at W.O.T., if not what do you mean? Your idle AFR are good, I do run my pump gas motor leaner than that, 14.8 to 16.0 depending on outside air temps as far as cruise I like an duse real close to 13.8 to 15.0, WOT I shoot for 12.8 to 13.3, not the best for a boosted motor so I would shoot for 12.2 to maybe as lean as 12.8, depending on what the spark plugs look like( all eight plugs) It is way safer to start out rich and then slowly lean it down to where you like it The transition circuits are real fun to tune
Posted By: dmking

Re: WideBand 02 Results - 05/02/12 10:27 PM

pat this another option. small simple and has a display built in live.

Attached picture 7189667-WEGO3_Sensor1.jpg
Posted By: dmking

Re: WideBand 02 Results - 05/02/12 10:30 PM

.

Attached picture 7189670-cecil1020run.JPG
Posted By: 440Jim

Re: WideBand 02 Results - 05/03/12 02:28 AM

Quote:

The wideband <oxygen> system doesn't know or care.



That is the beauty of the wide band oxygen sensor system.
I have used my wide band oxygen sensor with race gasoline, alky (methanol) and E-85 ethanol. It measures Lambda, I typically display A/F based on 14.7 (gasoline) since those numbers are in my head. I don't bother converting to actual A/F for the various fuels; as long as you know what numbers to look for, it don't matter. And the absolute number isn't all that important anyway, just a range.
Posted By: Dabee

Re: WideBand 02 Results - 05/03/12 03:26 AM

Quote:

Quote:



If you are running 10% ethanol pump gas your ideal AFR is 14.1 to 1.



While that may be technically true you can only use that info IF your wideband system is SET with a 14.1:1 stoich value. If your system is set to display gasoline stoich of 14.7:1 you can still use 14.7 as a stoich value when reading the numbers displayed regardless what fuel you're using.
Wideband systems measure oxygen presence and produce a variable numerical output value represented by the Greek letter Lambda. The value for Lambda at stoichiometry is 1.00. If the wideband system user sets the device to display s stoichiometry value of 14.7 (or any other number) the device simply multiplies Lambda by 14.7 (or whatever number is used). This does not change anything about how the device makes the measurement and the device does not care what fuel is being used.
Whoever created that chart was well-meaning and technically correct but has created a communication nightmare where now people can't disuss AFRs without stating what stoich value the reading was taken with (and requiring math to convert to ones familiar scale). It would be much better if everyone just used Lambda (1.00) or 14.7, regardless what fuel is being used. The wideband system doesn't know or care.




Agree, that is why I have my wideband set to display the Lambda number.
Posted By: joelson6

Re: WideBand 02 Results - 05/03/12 06:52 PM

i'm very interested in this topic. i want to put o2 sensors on my Challenger but funds are limiting what i can install. don't want to hijack here so i'm not gonna start asking all kinds of questions. but i am very interested in reading about what you did with you tuning. keep us posted.
Posted By: dmking

Re: WideBand 02 Results - 05/03/12 09:31 PM

the above chart was from my first time with the wideband in the car instead of my big ninja.
in one pass it showed me that the accelerator pump needed a bit more fuel and the hood scoop was making my car go rich above 100mph.

like everyone says jet for best preformance at the track and just shoot for that number.
Posted By: 6bblFLASH

Re: WideBand 02 Results - 07/26/12 11:52 PM

Well I`ve finally made enough headway to leave it alone for a while.
Ended up with IFR`s @ .033
AFR`s @ .076
13.5 idle
13.5 cruise
Posted By: YO7_A66

Re: WideBand 02 Results - 07/27/12 02:54 AM

You started with your cruise A/F at 11.7--12.2 and now you are at 13.5. Nice job!!
Posted By: 6bblFLASH

Re: WideBand 02 Results - 07/27/12 09:34 PM

Thanks,once I understood the pattern of the changes it started getting easier.

Going to check fuel mileage soon. Got 10.5mpg originally.
Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: WideBand 02 Results - 07/27/12 11:07 PM

Quote:

Thanks,once I understood the pattern of the changes it started getting easier.

Going to check fuel mileage soon. Got 10.5mpg originally.

So what exactly did you tweek in the carb to dial in the cruise?
Posted By: 6bblFLASH

Re: WideBand 02 Results - 07/28/12 05:05 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Thanks,once I understood the pattern of the changes it started getting easier.

Going to check fuel mileage soon. Got 10.5mpg originally.

So what exactly did you tweek in the carb to dial in the cruise?




As delivered it had .070 AFR`s and .040? IFR`s
Tried lots of combos and basically realized that if the idle circuit is maxed-out at idle,it can`t get much richer at cruise. Tried small changes to both IFR`s and AFR`s till it almost isn`t enough fuel to idle cold.Also lowered the primary float to just below the hole. That go me the 13.5 cruise.
I expect mileage to be 13mpg or so. Got 10.5 @11.7/12.2 AFR,,,,,11.98 @ 12.5/7 AFR. Hope 13.5 yeilds a 13+.
Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: WideBand 02 Results - 07/28/12 06:09 AM

When I went from 71 to 73 idle bleeds, it was definately too lean and was real slow to idle back down so I`ll try tweeking the mixture screws to see if that will stableize it. Good little tuning tool to get us close on our tune-up then fine tune at the track...........
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