Posted By: mac56
cryogenics ? - 04/27/12 02:46 PM
Just wondering if anyone is using this process other than rocker arms? Cranks or blocks?
Thanks
Thanks
cryogenics ?
Posted By: mbogina
Re: cryogenics ? - 04/27/12 03:59 PM
In addition, we have used cryo on roller lifters, heads, valve springs, valves, and keepers, lots of items benefit from cryo.
Posted By: Max Wedge Savoy
Re: cryogenics ? - 04/27/12 04:24 PM
My cast Stock Eliminator crank was cryo'd. Never had an issue with it after.
Posted By: MRMOPAR
Re: cryogenics ? - 04/27/12 04:33 PM
Quote:
In addition, we have used cryo on roller lifters, heads, valve springs, valves, and keepers, lots of items benefit from cryo.
along with those, I have also done the ring and pinion.
Posted By: BradH
Re: cryogenics ? - 04/27/12 04:35 PM
Is there any quantifiable data for the benefits from using cryo-treated iron, steel and aluminum parts? Everything I've found during research I did a few years ago always seemed to rely on theoretical improvements, rather than actual test results.
Posted By: mbogina
Re: cryogenics ? - 04/27/12 05:34 PM
We had lots of problems with the Comp Cams 829 Roller Lifters when used w big spring pressures, we basically crushed the rollers and turned them to dust. The cryo lifters appear to last about 3 times as long as the non-cryo in this application.
I don't have measurable results on any other items. I had worked a deal to dyno a Super Stock Hemi motor, have everything cryo treated and re-dyno, but we never went through with it.
I don't have measurable results on any other items. I had worked a deal to dyno a Super Stock Hemi motor, have everything cryo treated and re-dyno, but we never went through with it.
Posted By: 8urvette
Re: cryogenics ? - 04/27/12 05:41 PM
my cousin runs a 11 sec srt4- full interior just built motor on slicks. blew apart a few input shafts. paid to get one cryo treated and has been running it for 2-3 years now problem free. mind u he had exploded the "new" input shaft at the first event it went to. the original had help up till the low 11's, then let go, the replacement died the first weekend and the cryo has held up for years, exact same car, same setup, set et's and same weight. sounds like some proof to me-
o yea, and its a daily driver too!
o yea, and its a daily driver too!
Posted By: BradH
Re: cryogenics ? - 04/27/12 08:02 PM
Quote:
... The cryo lifters appear to last about 3 times as long as the non-cryo in this application.
That's definitely of interest to me...
Posted By: cruzin
Re: cryogenics ? - 04/27/12 08:32 PM
I had an assortment of parts including crank and block done about 8 years ago. A friend of mine offers this service and did my parts at the time to fill in and make a full batch.
I don't have anything to compare to so I don't know whether or not the cryo treatment works or did not on my application.
What my buddy did indicated when I was discussing this was the feedback he recieved from a company whom he did their brake rotors for. Apparently, the treated rotors would hold up much better than the untreated ones.
I don't have anything to compare to so I don't know whether or not the cryo treatment works or did not on my application.
What my buddy did indicated when I was discussing this was the feedback he recieved from a company whom he did their brake rotors for. Apparently, the treated rotors would hold up much better than the untreated ones.
Posted By: Von
Re: cryogenics ? - 04/27/12 09:14 PM
A member had his whole motor cryo'ed. Apparently it is not a good idea to cryo compressed valve springs. His valve springs lost pressure after a dozen or so passes, and some street miles.
He talked with somebody (dont know who) and they said that due to being compressed when cryo'd it messed with the metallurgy...somehow.
Take it FWIW....
He talked with somebody (dont know who) and they said that due to being compressed when cryo'd it messed with the metallurgy...somehow.
Take it FWIW....
Posted By: Max Wedge Savoy
Re: cryogenics ? - 04/27/12 10:21 PM
Quote:
A member had his whole motor cryo'ed. Apparently it is not a good idea to cryo compressed valve springs. His valve springs lost pressure after a dozen or so passes, and some street miles.
He talked with somebody (dont know who) and they said that due to being compressed when cryo'd it messed with the metallurgy...somehow.
Take it FWIW....
When a part is chilled to those temps there is a change to the grain structure. I would further explain it but I'm afraid I would bore everyone.
Posted By: dogdays
Re: cryogenics ? - 04/28/12 12:09 AM
Not me, but in college I was the only one who voted for Advanced Metallurgy as an elective!
Thomas Schoonover, R.I.P.
R.
Thomas Schoonover, R.I.P.
R.
Posted By: fourgearsavoy
Re: cryogenics ? - 04/28/12 01:03 AM
I had the gears in my Richmond street trans cryo treated and I beat the crap out of that tranny with an "old-school" Hays Pro-Stock clutch and bronze disc and it held up just fine 
Gus
Gus
Posted By: hemidup
Re: cryogenics ? - 04/28/12 01:08 AM
I cyro'd every internal part in my engine, valves, springs, rod's, piston's, rings, bearings, crank, ARP main and head stud's etc plus the block. Cheap insurance.
Posted By: dmking
Re: cryogenics ? - 04/28/12 03:22 AM
a friend is a machinest at tyco and their tooling lasts longer when cryoed. i asked if it is snake oil and he said it makes things last longer.
Posted By: Bob_Coomer
Re: cryogenics ? - 04/28/12 03:48 AM
dang I never knew. could easy take my stuff to work and chryo them... dont know how long or how slow to bring the temp down etc.. I work in a ASU plant (air separation unit) we make Lox (liquid o2) LIN (liquid N2) and Lar (liquid Argon) by the tons...
hmm...
hmm...
Posted By: produster
Re: cryogenics ? - 04/28/12 06:24 AM
Liberty Gears, Liberty transmissions, cryos everything. I have not seen a failure in the trans that was caused by broken internals.
Posted By: 540dust
Re: cryogenics ? - 04/28/12 02:16 PM
I believe Bryant cryo's all their cranks.
Posted By: Bill MeLater
Re: cryogenics ? - 04/28/12 03:58 PM
Quote:I also have a freind that owns a machine shop that produces aircraft parts (extremely tight tolerances) and he's claimed that cryo treated tooling lasts as much as 5 times longer. Sort of makes me want to try it..
a friend is a machinest at tyco and their tooling lasts longer when cryoed. i asked if it is snake oil and he said it makes things last longer.
Posted By: MRMOPAR
Re: cryogenics ? - 04/28/12 05:07 PM
Quote:
dang I never knew. could easy take my stuff to work and chryo them... dont know how long or how slow to bring the temp down etc.. I work in a ASU plant (air separation unit) we make Lox (liquid o2) LIN (liquid N2) and Lar (liquid Argon) by the tons...
hmm...
The process consists of slowly lowering the temperature to -320 over a period of hours, holding it at that temp for another time period, and then slowly raising it back to ambient. One of my friends here in Tucson had a cryo treatment business, but subsequently sold it. As I recall, it took over 24 hours to complete the process.
Posted By: Bob_Coomer
Re: cryogenics ? - 04/28/12 07:39 PM
Wonder if iron blocks would benefit?
Pretty much need to come up with some kind of vessel or cooler. We vent of liquid all the time. Just need to make something easily taken apart, and hook up a 1/2" line and valve, then on the other end hook up a vent/purge or outlet line... Basically just crack the inlet and leave the outlet all the way open. How much the inlet is cracked will result temp drop or cool down period/rate. Once you see liquid coming out the outlet you know the inside is as cold as the liquid.. Just close the outlet at this point.
The vessel would need to be made of stainless or aluminum to keep from cold imbrittelment.
Maybe I should start doing this, and maybe offer to do this for fellow racers for a small fee..
If they would be a interest.... Small parts, like cams, and lifters with very little setup... But for blocks and cranks I would need a vessel.
Pretty much need to come up with some kind of vessel or cooler. We vent of liquid all the time. Just need to make something easily taken apart, and hook up a 1/2" line and valve, then on the other end hook up a vent/purge or outlet line... Basically just crack the inlet and leave the outlet all the way open. How much the inlet is cracked will result temp drop or cool down period/rate. Once you see liquid coming out the outlet you know the inside is as cold as the liquid.. Just close the outlet at this point.
The vessel would need to be made of stainless or aluminum to keep from cold imbrittelment.
Maybe I should start doing this, and maybe offer to do this for fellow racers for a small fee..
If they would be a interest.... Small parts, like cams, and lifters with very little setup... But for blocks and cranks I would need a vessel.
Posted By: cheapstreetdustr
Re: cryogenics ? - 04/29/12 03:39 AM
chyro was .developed for machine cutting bits
during the world war..turning bullet and shell casings in a mass production..chryo treated lasted measurably longer..
in the 90s i raced and worked on professional roadrace motorcycles..we had a all kinds of stuff chryo treated..gearboxes cranks valves cams..
even the aluminum frames
but things like cyl walls that have to be machined afterwards created some problems...
the cutting speed truning cranks and boring ect. had to be adjusted...because its alot harder to machine a chryo part..
also you have to re-clearence after chryo treating.the dimensions of the part can change afterwards..fwiw.
it works there is no doubt about it.
the way i understand it the freezing slows down the molecules and allows them to align into a more uniform structure which is where the strength comes from
during the world war..turning bullet and shell casings in a mass production..chryo treated lasted measurably longer..
in the 90s i raced and worked on professional roadrace motorcycles..we had a all kinds of stuff chryo treated..gearboxes cranks valves cams..
even the aluminum frames
but things like cyl walls that have to be machined afterwards created some problems...
the cutting speed truning cranks and boring ect. had to be adjusted...because its alot harder to machine a chryo part..
also you have to re-clearence after chryo treating.the dimensions of the part can change afterwards..fwiw.
it works there is no doubt about it.
the way i understand it the freezing slows down the molecules and allows them to align into a more uniform structure which is where the strength comes from
Posted By: TrWaters
Re: cryogenics ? - 04/29/12 02:27 PM
Quote:
I cyro'd every internal part in my engine, valves, springs, rod's, piston's, rings, bearings, crank, ARP main and head stud's etc plus the block. Cheap insurance.
Tell the truth Jerry....you live in Minnesota. You just left your stuff outside a couple January nights.
Posted By: Hemi Allstate
Re: cryogenics ? - 04/29/12 03:42 PM
That's funny!
Posted By: 6pak2go
Re: cryogenics ? - 05/01/12 02:05 AM
Just had mine done by Liberty.