Latest W2 heads

Posted By: ZIPPY

Latest W2 heads - 03/13/12 04:15 AM

MP still makes W2 heads, seems like the primary customers are sportsman circle track racers? Though aluminum is the rage these days, I dunno....W2 heads look to be just as viable as they ever were.

Haven't been able to get any flow data yet, but these look nicer than the previous ones I have worked with.

Can't find anything ugly that I don't like in the castings, machine work looks clean and so on. Looking for differences new vs. old....if anything the castings have more of a "squared off" appearance on the outer walls of the intake ports (looks like more material?). The deck surface also appears slightly thicker to me than the last ones I had, but that's just from memory.

One thing that stand out...this is one of those oddball parts that the casting number matches the part number, which almost never happens. These are the 769s.

Anyway I got a chance to check them out and maybe you'd like to see them too.

I'm sorry my camera skills kinda suck for getting shots of the bowls...I tried, but the pics of those areas didn't turn out well.

Attached picture 7115830-w2heads1.jpg

Posted By: ZIPPY

Re: Latest W2 heads - 03/13/12 04:20 AM

Terrible shot of an intake bowl. Sorry.

I gave up trying to get a good shot of the exhaust.

Attached picture 7115850-w2heads2.jpg

Posted By: ZIPPY

Re: Latest W2 heads - 03/13/12 04:22 AM

intake flange area

Attached picture 7115854-w2heads3.jpg

Posted By: ZIPPY

Re: Latest W2 heads - 03/13/12 04:24 AM

exhaust, pretty much what you would expect to see

Attached picture 7115859-w2heads4.jpg

Posted By: ZIPPY

Re: Latest W2 heads - 03/13/12 04:29 AM

Foundry mark. Looks just like the one on a few recent engine blocks, apparently they do some nice work there.

Sorry for the lack of gory details, maybe somebody has flow tested them and can post up...I have not taken the time to ask or look, to be honest.

I mostly intended this as a "hey do you remember them?" kind of deal, and thought I would mention there are some new ones out now.

Attached picture 7115869-w2heads5.jpg

Posted By: Labratt

Re: Latest W2 heads - 03/13/12 04:29 AM

Rich...were these pics taken at work? The reason I ask,is the last shot appears to be a granite inspection plate that the W-2's are sitting on. Am I correct?

Thanks! Randy B. BTW...I sent you a PM about your Mopar presents! THANKS!!

Posted By: ZIPPY

Re: Latest W2 heads - 03/13/12 04:36 AM

Yes sir, that is indeed a granite surface plate

good eye!

Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: Latest W2 heads - 03/13/12 05:19 AM

Quote:

Terrible shot of an intake bowl. Sorry.

I gave up trying to get a good shot of the exhaust.

Filled in bowl, eh???? Is that what I'm seeing?

Posted By: ZIPPY

Re: Latest W2 heads - 03/13/12 02:01 PM

Yeah, maybe slightly?

I would trust your opinion on that more than my own!

It's hard to say with any authority because I don't have the old ones around to compare them to anymore...and I'm sure not enough of an expert with them to "remember" the shape. Heck I can hardly remember what I had for lunch yesterday...

Posted By: Dragula

Re: Latest W2 heads - 03/13/12 02:58 PM

What's the factory part number and pricing. I have a buddy that is envying mine a little too much and wants a set for his 416....Maybe this will keep him away.

Posted By: ZIPPY

Re: Latest W2 heads - 03/13/12 03:12 PM

P5249769 the price is 656 retail, and there looks to be
94 of them available in the depot system.

Posted By: 40ford

Re: Latest W2 heads - 03/13/12 04:22 PM

It has been years since we worked with W2s. There were three different valve angle that could be obtained. The 18 degree heads were good, used standard W2 rockers and worked with either a 59 or 48 degree block, flowed about 250 CFM @ .700", the 15 degree heads were better---could flow up to 290 @ .700" if "prepped" properly---but required a 48 degree block and special "oil through pushrod" rockers(Jessel). There were a few sets of 12 degree heads---primarily through Stanton that were real good but required T&D rockers.

Posted By: jyrki

Re: Latest W2 heads - 03/13/12 04:35 PM

I just recently obtained a set for my nostalgia project..
http://kuvablogi.com/nayta/3397443/

Posted By: dizuster

Re: Latest W2 heads - 03/13/12 06:21 PM

As I understand it, they are not all that much better then an Eddy head.

So as a comparison they are a little better. But heavier, use a special intake/rockers, and cost more (quick look put these in the $1100 bare range).

Not too hard to understand why not too many people run them anymore based on that.

I think more circle track guys run them because some rules force "iron heads" on the teams.

Posted By: jim sciortino

Re: Latest W2 heads - 03/13/12 06:49 PM

Quote:

As I understand it, they are not all that much better then an Eddy head.

So as a comparison they are a little better. But heavier, use a special intake/rockers, and cost more (quick look put these in the $1100 bare range).

Not too hard to understand why not too many people run them anymore based on that.

I think more circle track guys run them because some rules force "iron heads" on the teams.

The Eddys are a nice, affordable street/mild performance head, but I would run a W-2 over the Eddy in a race effort where cost is not a factor.

I've seen W-2s go 320+ with good air speed and a 15* closed chamber W-2 on a 48* block is no contest, especially if the right guy does the port, chamber and intake work.

Plus, with a little grinding, you can tell the brand Xers they just got drilled by an all iron 340.

Posted By: Dragula

Re: Latest W2 heads - 03/13/12 07:29 PM

Quote:

Quote:

As I understand it, they are not all that much better then an Eddy head.

So as a comparison they are a little better. But heavier, use a special intake/rockers, and cost more (quick look put these in the $1100 bare range).

Not too hard to understand why not too many people run them anymore based on that.

I think more circle track guys run them because some rules force "iron heads" on the teams.

The Eddys are a nice, affordable street/mild performance head, but I would run a W-2 over the Eddy in a race effort where cost is not a factor.

I've seen W-2s go 320+ with good air speed and a 15* closed chamber W-2 on a 48* block is no contest, especially if the right guy does the port, chamber and intake work.

Plus, with a little grinding, you can tell the brand Xers they just got drilled by an all iron 340.

X2

+300cfm, they are the best head for the money...

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Latest W2 heads - 03/13/12 07:57 PM

They look like they have more meat in the top of the
runner so it could be moved up higher... I dont recall
the top of the runner being flush with the VC rail

Posted By: ZIPPY

Re: Latest W2 heads - 03/13/12 09:32 PM

Quote:

They look like they have more meat in the top of the
runner so it could be moved up higher... I dont recall
the top of the runner being flush with the VC rail

Mike I was thinking about that last night and could not really remember, so that's good input.

It seems like they have alot more meat on the sides too,
The outside of the intake runners sort of looks like a box or a rectangle, with corners slightly rounded off....more boxy looking than the older ones for sure

Posted By: 1Fast340

Re: Latest W2 heads - 03/13/12 09:56 PM

zippy this is good news,thanks for the heads up on them!

im getting a serious case of W-head envy,whatever my next build will be W2�s are absolutely at the top of my want to get list.

Posted By: dogdays

Re: Latest W2 heads - 03/13/12 10:50 PM

When the W2 first came out it was said that it outflowed every factory head in production at the time. That's hot.
There have been many improvements over the years, combustion chamber being the best change IMHO.
Prices seem high until you start comparing bare for bare with aftermarket cast iron race heads for the smallblock chevy crowd, then they don't look so bad. Cast iron heads aren't so much cheaper any more.

R.

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Latest W2 heads - 03/13/12 11:01 PM

I have a new set of W-2 in the shop(prior to this
latest version) that I plan on porting but havent
got around to it... I also have a set on my 396 ci
thats in the P right now... I ported those also but
I didnt go all out and they flow 305 at 600... I have
just about enough parts(lacking rods) to build another
W-2 engine for something... dont know what yet

Posted By: w2dak394

Re: Latest W2 heads - 03/14/12 01:23 PM

Is there not an oil passage from the deck surface on the top head in picture.

Posted By: Moparnut426

Re: Latest W2 heads - 03/14/12 02:48 PM

W2s are a great head, and if you are lucky enough to still have an old set of NORRIS rockers then you have a very solid top end for your latemodel, or street stock IMCA gm eater. I would love to have a W2 headed mopar in my buddys current street stock IMCA dirt car, but we dont have enough spare parts laying around for that unforseen failure, so he is just gonna run the GM that is supplied with the car.

Posted By: ZIPPY

Re: Latest W2 heads - 03/14/12 03:42 PM

W2's since around the late '90s have been set up for pushrod oiling, or at least that was design intent. If I understand correctly circle track racers requested that change to be made for a long time prior.

I'm sure somebody has a set from the interim time period that are not set up that way and would debate that....I've heard of them before. As with all things Mopar: never say never...

That design does force the builder into more expensive rocker arms like TD and so on, but that style of rocker usually cures enough other potential issues it's worth the change.

Posted By: dusturbd340W5

Re: Latest W2 heads - 03/15/12 01:55 AM

Quote:

W2's since around the late '90s have been set up for pushrod oiling, or at least that was design intent. If I understand correctly circle track racers requested that change to be made for a long time prior.

I'm sure somebody has a set from the interim time period that are not set up that way and would debate that....I've heard of them before. As with all things Mopar: never say never...

That design does force the builder into more expensive rocker arms like TD and so on, but that style of rocker usually cures enough other potential issues it's worth the change.

but in his pictures of 2 new heads 1 has the hole for shaft oil the other 1 does not.

Posted By: ZIPPY

Re: Latest W2 heads - 03/15/12 02:41 AM

Aha, thanks-I see it now.
Thanks for pointing that out.

Next chance I get in the shop I will dig those heads out and see what's up.

If there were any efforts made to make them work with the old rockers (the only reason for the oil hole) then we need to know about that. Far as I know they are supposed to be TD only but maybe I am missing something.

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Latest W2 heads - 03/15/12 03:46 AM

Quote:

Aha, thanks-I see it now.
Thanks for pointing that out.

Next chance I get in the shop I will dig those heads out and see what's up.

If there were any efforts made to make them work with the old rockers (the only reason for the oil hole) then we need to know about that. Far as I know they are supposed to be TD only but maybe I am missing something.

that is weird... all the w-2s I've seen used shaft
oiling and yours have one of each

Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: Latest W2 heads - 03/15/12 03:51 AM

Those are so called w-2 race heads but even the stands
look tall... almost as tall as the econo but without
the cradle in the stands

Posted By: HardcoreB

Re: Latest W2 heads - 03/15/12 04:10 PM

Any confirmation on the rockers? Will they take the old Crane gold's with the stands or is it T&D only?

Posted By: ZIPPY

Re: Latest W2 heads - 03/15/12 04:41 PM

Haven't figured it out yet

Easiest way to get where I need to go would be to get my hands on some of the supporting parts and mock them up, but I don't have anything.

I've hoarded big block stuff forever but don't have anything for a small block

Will do some asking around.

Posted By: HardcoreB

Re: Latest W2 heads - 03/15/12 08:29 PM

I have a set of rockers you can borrow...look me up ifin' you're ever up at CTC.

Posted By: ZIPPY

Re: Latest W2 heads - 03/15/12 09:49 PM

Practically never go there, maybe once or twice a year tops.

But if shipping is an option, pls feel free to PM or call and I'll hook everything up

Thanks for the offer, regardless of how it works out

Did some more detective work and it appears there is a possibility one head is machined to the old spec for old rockers, but I don't have an answer for the other one.
Hopefully 4 or 5 more phone calls/emails tomorrow will get us what we need.

Posted By: fishy340

Re: Latest W2 heads - 03/15/12 10:03 PM

Quote:

exhaust, pretty much what you would expect to see

i hope they dont leak like the other castings,2nd head bolt in near the w2 marking,is where they took meat away from the casting that caused leaks last time

Posted By: mrsmallblock

Re: Latest W2 heads - 07/10/12 04:42 AM

Anymore updates or pics on these heads? I think that is the 55cc combustion chamber head you showed? Do they still make any 15 degree heads?

Howard

Posted By: viperblue72

Re: Latest W2 heads - 07/10/12 06:04 AM

Quote:

As I understand it, they are not all that much better then an Eddy head.

So as a comparison they are a little better. But heavier, use a special intake/rockers, and cost more (quick look put these in the $1100 bare range).

Not too hard to understand why not too many people run them anymore based on that.

I think more circle track guys run them because some rules force "iron heads" on the teams.

Any time you get rid of the pushrod pinch on a sbm it is gonna run better, regardless of flow #s even. I personally believe a ported w2 is gonna outperform a ported edelbrock very easily.

Posted By: ZIPPY

Re: Latest W2 heads - 07/10/12 01:33 PM

Best as I've been able to determine, the one with an oil hole was a preproduction oddball and was not really intended for public consumption. Sorry to cause any confusion by posting a pic of it....

I finally got the chance to check out some regular production newer 769s and they don't have the hole (and they're not supposed to have it, so I guess that is a good thing).

The ones pictured are the 65cc NASCAR spec, the part number ends in 769, originally intended for 59 degree lifter angle.

Posted By: Troy

Re: Latest W2 heads - 07/10/12 07:01 PM

Hi Rich...hope all is well.

Why would they do that?? Why get rid of the shaft mounted oiling?? You can always modify the oiling system and turn it into pushrod oiling BUT you can not go in the other direction. Personality I like the shaft mounted oiling for a few reasons and on a street/strip engine it is by far easier. To me it is better to give the customer many options and let them decide what direction they want to go in and not force them to do something or buy something that they already have.

I know having two part numbers could be a pain but we are talking about one hole.... one machining process...offer that head in two versions, with or without shaft mounted oiling. sorry but just my

As for the Edelbrock lovers out there.... I'm sorry but W2s are a wonderful head and yes they are iron but think about that for a minute...
Run less compression and make more power. This means a lighter piston.
Much better intake and exhaust runner design.
Out of the box better flowing on both intake and exhaust ports.

I'm well aware of the draw backs of the W2 and to me there is not that many

. Cost is a big one when your going from a running engine and want to adapt over to a W2 setup. If your staring from scratch you have to buy rockers, intake and headers anyway.

If you want to keep things simple the Edelbrock heads are hard to beat and they have a place in engine building. I do think there are some better options out there and that is where W2 can be fun!!

Posted By: StrokerAspen

Re: Latest W2 heads - 07/10/12 07:26 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Terrible shot of an intake bowl. Sorry.

I gave up trying to get a good shot of the exhaust.

Filled in bowl, eh???? Is that what I'm seeing?

HAH! Brian said "eh"... You sure your not part Canadian?

Quote:

They look like they have more meat in the top of the
runner so it could be moved up higher... I dont recall
the top of the runner being flush with the VC rail

Looks like it to me too. Good catch. My Econo's don't have that much casting above the runners...

-Kenny

Posted By: ZIPPY

Re: Latest W2 heads - 07/10/12 07:44 PM

As the legend was passed down to me, many years ago the sportsman Nascar racers complained to Mopar to get rid of the shaft oiling, Mopar finally gave in and did it. They went on about how it was too much extra work to cut the heads for TD rockers, nobody wanted to use the old stuff anymore and why couldn't the heads be made that way to begin with. And since they are the primary customers for that 769 head, they did have a good point.

That's not to say nobody at MP likes shaft rockers...Back in '07, management was getting set for the econo head to make a comeback. There were two PN variants and they're listed in the 2007 catalog on page 88, marketed as "W2 Classic". Unfortunately they were ahead of their time: more research revealed the castings needed to be retooled, and that was the last I heard of those two new part numbers. They were only a blip in one catalog; none were ever produced in that timeframe and they come up ns7 now.

I had assumed (incorrectly) the W2 retool would be part of the huge push in '07-'08 that resulted in rework of hemi/RB wedge, LA/R3, aluminum and iron hemi heads,iron max wedge heads, the intro of the aluminum 452/straight plug rpm and stageVII/Victor and so on....but it was not in the cards. It is interesting how it worked out.

Personally I would like to see a shaft oiled W2 available but am not sure how it would sell?

Posted By: fishy340

Re: Latest W2 heads - 07/10/12 09:40 PM

right below where it says w2 and mopar on the exhause picture,when they removed that iron around the head bolts is where you were able to take a shower from the leaks the last time they removed iron..hopefully it dont happen again

Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: Latest W2 heads - 07/10/12 10:20 PM

Quote:

right below where it says w2 and mopar on the exhause picture,when they removed that iron around the head bolts is where you were able to take a shower from the leaks the last time they removed iron..hopefully it dont happen again

I have two of those leakers too in the same spot. Its a shame to because I only did a mild port job to my set because of the small cam that I am running and they were still flowing over 310 cfm. Going back to edelbrocks now.

Posted By: jyrki

Re: Latest W2 heads - 07/11/12 07:37 AM

The set I have in the garage are closede chambers, have to check the casting and part numbers. They both have the oil holes, I have HS rockers for tehm too but haven't even trial fitted them, so don't know wether they'll fit or not.

Posted By: StrokerAspen

Re: Latest W2 heads - 07/11/12 03:03 PM

Quote:

Plus, with a little grinding, you can tell the brand Xers they just got drilled by an all iron 340.

Funny you mention that. That prettymuch happened with my car last year. Lined up with a procharged mustang at a street car shoot out. Before we raced, We both asked questions about each other�s cars. I told him, it was an all iron small block, with 3.23 gears, and an 8.5� slick. All true.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-PO1bCE3...ture=plpp_video

Posted By: 65signet

Re: Latest W2 heads - 07/11/12 10:14 PM

Iron heads run better then alum in a 10.0 comp motor JMO. we are going back to iron on my daughter's 340, takes forever to warm up motor, and does not run good until about 30min of driving.