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ARP MAIN CAP STUD KIT???

Posted By: Labratt

ARP MAIN CAP STUD KIT??? - 03/02/12 07:03 PM

When is it needed for a 440...using the factory caps? The caps also need to be align-honed,after installed...am I correct? I was advised by an engine builder/machinist to make the switch..since adding a possible 90-100 horsepower with recent headwork. What is the concensus on this? Thanks in advance!
Posted By: maximum entropy

Re: ARP MAIN CAP STUD KIT??? - 03/02/12 07:34 PM

i always go with studs, and a bolt in girdle. if you have a dial bore gauge, and a straight edge, check the mains yourself. sometimes they need a to be line honed, sometimes not. always check.
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: ARP MAIN CAP STUD KIT??? - 03/02/12 07:58 PM

Quote:

When is it needed for a 440...using the factory caps? The caps also need to be align-honed,after installed...am I correct? I was advised by an engine builder/machinist to make the switch..since adding a possible 90-100 horsepower with recent headwork. What is the concensus on this? Thanks in advance!

What kind of maximum power will te motor make with the new heads? If less than 600 HP don't worry about it I have switch from main bolts to ARP main studs and didn't have the mains aligned honed, I did measure the main bore size before and after with a inside mike to see if it changed, it didn't
Posted By: Lee446

Re: ARP MAIN CAP STUD KIT??? - 03/02/12 08:09 PM

I always stud the mains on anything over 500 hp. It is cheap insurance in my opinion. You may have to have it honed, mine needed it, don't just install them and assume it is all good! I am interested in possiby going to a girdle in the future, but I read so much contradictory stuff here, I am not sure which one to use. Good Luck on your build and your car looks great! Lee.
Posted By: maximum entropy

Re: ARP MAIN CAP STUD KIT??? - 03/02/12 08:32 PM

Quote:

I am interested in possiby going to a girdle in the future, but I read so much contradictory stuff here, I am not sure which one to use. Good Luck on your build and your car looks great! Lee.


nothing contradictory from me. i've installed a bunch, four different manufacturers. all with good results. i believe.
Posted By: dragram440

Re: ARP MAIN CAP STUD KIT??? - 03/02/12 08:44 PM

I think if you are going to go with studs and line hone that it would be a good time to go with new main cap!
Posted By: Labratt

Re: ARP MAIN CAP STUD KIT??? - 03/02/12 09:01 PM

Thanks people! Matt..I think you're right! Just MORE ADDED INSURANCE!..sure can't hurt! Cab...guesstimating to be around 610-620 horsepower..at the crank,of course! Any suggestions on what aftermarket caps to buy/use??? THANKS! Randy B.
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: ARP MAIN CAP STUD KIT??? - 03/03/12 04:20 AM

Quote:

Thanks people! Matt..I think you're right! Just MORE ADDED INSURANCE!..sure can't hurt! Cab...guesstimating to be around 610-620 horsepower..at the crank,of course! Any suggestions on what aftermarket caps to buy/use??? THANKS! Randy B.

I like and use to buy, when they where still avaliable, the Mopar brand Ductile iron main caps. Buy them if you can find a set If not my next choice would be steel main caps. They're are a lot of other racers and engine guys on this site that I respect that have used aluminum main caps with no problems I'm not one of them, yet, so I can't and won't recommend parts that I haven't used
Posted By: Labratt

Re: ARP MAIN CAP STUD KIT??? - 03/03/12 05:23 AM

What about the 440Source Billet Steel Caps? Any quality issues with these???

Attached picture 7100859-BILLETSTEELMAINCAPS...440SOURCE.jpg
Posted By: His and Her 69's

Re: ARP MAIN CAP STUD KIT??? - 03/03/12 06:36 AM

Randy, Janet's RR had stock caps with ARP studs at 615 hp for 8 years and never a problem. The car had a LOT of 1/4 mile passes and a Bunch of road miles and some street test n tune sessions so it wasn't babied at all. It would be for your peice of mind only that I would tell you to get new caps.
I had alum caps and studs on my car at 771 hp and I used NOS also so that is why it had them. You will have some cap walk no matter what you use but it will be less the more you do to it over stock.
just my 2 cents.
David
Posted By: 383man

Re: ARP MAIN CAP STUD KIT??? - 03/03/12 08:54 AM

Quote:

What about the 440Source Billet Steel Caps? Any quality issues with these???



Randy I am using the 440Source billet steel main caps. I also use the ARP main studs. Had all the mains align bored and honed to size. I am making right around 600 hp and so far everything is holding up great. No problems at all with the Source main caps with the ARP studs. I also like to use main studs with anything over 500 hp or any eng that is going to be raced. Ron
Posted By: smokinwoody

Re: ARP MAIN CAP STUD KIT??? - 03/03/12 01:20 PM

Randy, I have the stock mains with CRE's stud/girdle kit...we made 760hp on our first pull..the engine was installed in the car to break it in with a few runs and then it was re-tuned giving it another 100hp+...

that engine has been sitting and will be going into my Dodge..I started thinking about the street activity and trips to the track...I am going to order the BCR "bottom" kit that comes with the full "wall to wall" main caps and that 1/2" thick girdle...thats a well planned out bottom end for our stock blocks with 2 main bolts/studs..

no matter what you do, a stud/girdle to me, is a must...

Posted By: JackGTX440

Re: ARP MAIN CAP STUD KIT??? - 03/03/12 02:49 PM

Smokinwoody, does this 1/2" girdle cause any clearance issues with oil pans or anything?
Posted By: Blown 68 R/T

Re: ARP MAIN CAP STUD KIT??? - 03/03/12 04:06 PM

Randy
I'm using ARP kit with BCR alum cap & girdle kit for years in the Coronet.I also have a half fill of hard block.
All comes down to what you want, there's a couple sets of aftermarket caps for sale on here too.Like mentioned it's money well spent imo to keep things together.
Posted By: Labratt

Re: ARP MAIN CAP STUD KIT??? - 03/03/12 04:39 PM

Thanks guys! So,Ron..the quality and fitment on the Source caps was good,I'm assuming?! Jeff..AWESOME set-up!...but with my power level(600-620hp)and "shoestring budget" I'm thinkin' the ARP stud kit,and billet caps would be a BIG improvement over my stock caps,and ARP bolts. JACK!!!...where you been hiding? Please say HELLO to your father for me! I have to get with Paul shortly...motorcycle parts my brother left for him! Kevin..those BCR caps look GREAT!...but for as often as I race,and the difference in prices..I just might have to use the Source caps! Being on a fixed income SUCKS! Thanks again for your ideas,and info! Randy B.

Attached picture 7101249-CRANKREMOVAL...440002.jpg
Posted By: 383man

Re: ARP MAIN CAP STUD KIT??? - 03/03/12 05:42 PM

Randy I took my block with the 440Source main caps right to the machine shop to be align bored and have the ARP studs put in. I never really tried the caps before that but they fit great when I got my block back. Ron
Posted By: Labratt

Re: ARP MAIN CAP STUD KIT??? - 03/03/12 06:03 PM

Thanks Ron! I'm really leaning towards the Source caps! $140.00 a set IS an EXCELLENT price for Billet caps! Gotta be stronger than the factory caps!...especially with the stud kit installed!
Posted By: HardcoreB

Re: ARP MAIN CAP STUD KIT??? - 03/03/12 08:55 PM

I am leaning toward recommending to just put ARP studs in it and hone if necessary. Take us a few snapshots of ALL main cap parting surfaces and post them. If all is good STAY AWAY from detonation. Machine for quench,(hopefully noone beveled the top of the bore) draw-in cool air ONLY, and be conservative with the timing to include minimizing spark scatter.
Posted By: Labratt

Re: ARP MAIN CAP STUD KIT??? - 03/03/12 09:19 PM

Thanks for chiming in,Shawn! I'll run out to the pole barn in a few minutes and take some shots of ALL the cap mating surfaces. I can definately see evidence of "walking" on #2..#3..and #4 block/cap mating surfaces! So..you think just the stud kit alone will eliminate the "walking" issue? BTW...after talking to Randy Thursday...I will be going with Shawn at St. Clair Engine, to be doing my machine work!..he seems to be Mopar-Connected,for sure!
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: ARP MAIN CAP STUD KIT??? - 03/03/12 11:23 PM

Quote:

Thanks for chiming in,Shawn! I'll run out to the pole barn in a few minutes and take some shots of ALL the cap mating surfaces. I can definately see evidence of "walking" on #2..#3..and #4 block/cap mating surfaces! So..you think just the stud kit alone will eliminate the "walking" issue? BTW...after talking to Randy Thursday...I will be going with Shawn at St. Clair Engine, to be doing my machine work!..he seems to be Mopar-Connected,for sure!

Get a real good flat mill file and remove any of the material that transferred betweent the caps and block mating surfaces, don't go hog wild, just smooth them up so they are flat
Posted By: Labratt

Re: ARP MAIN CAP STUD KIT??? - 03/03/12 11:48 PM

Thanks for the advice,Cab!...will do! Here are the pics I promised. Wish my darn Sony would take better pics! You can still see the "evidence" of cap walk...and metal transfer!

Attached picture 7101830-BLOCK-MAINCAPMETALTRANSFER001.jpg
Posted By: Labratt

Re: ARP MAIN CAP STUD KIT??? - 03/03/12 11:49 PM

another!

Attached picture 7101834-BLOCK-MAINCAPMETALTRANSFER004.jpg
Posted By: Labratt

Re: ARP MAIN CAP STUD KIT??? - 03/03/12 11:50 PM

the block surface!...sorry for the clarity...or should I say,lack of it?!!!

Attached picture 7101837-BLOCK-MAINCAPMETALTRANSFER007.jpg
Posted By: HardcoreB

Re: ARP MAIN CAP STUD KIT??? - 03/04/12 06:51 PM

They've been bouncing pretty good. Studs will help a little. If you intergrade all the things I mentioned you should be OK. Personally, I would put alloy caps and studs on for 600HP. Some shops line-bore machining is done well enough that a hone is not necessary.
Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: ARP MAIN CAP STUD KIT??? - 03/05/12 12:30 AM

i put ductile iron main caps and ARP studs in my 512 motor with the iron heads, the first inspection after dyno testing and some street and strip driving, not a lot, I found similar results I file them flat and put it back together, I swapped heads also and ran it the next year a lt more at the track and on the street. I looked at it agian the next winter and had a little main cap wlaked, not near as much as the fsrt time. I swapped the 4.250 stroke crank out for the 4.300 stroke crank to increase the compression from 9.25 to 1 to 10.29 to 1 by moving the pistons up from -.025 to zero deck I had all the main caps off that motor at the begiining of last year and I didn't need to file the caps anymore, I leak it down last month and put it on the dyno, it made 728 HP on pump gas at 4300 ft. elevation I put it back in the car for another year of playing Same main bearings for five years now
Posted By: Labratt

Re: ARP MAIN CAP STUD KIT??? - 03/05/12 05:03 AM

Yeah,Shawn!...same thing I was thinking when I looked at them! I'm REAL surprised the bearings looked as good as they did. They could actually be re-used..but won't! I might just look into the Aluminum BCR caps..they look to be a stout piece. Combined with ARP studs..and EVERYTHING you mentioned previously...I think would do the trick,quite nicely!
Posted By: dwayne welder

Re: ARP MAIN CAP STUD KIT??? - 03/06/12 01:45 AM

Heres a trick, when you put it back together!!!!! Get some spray moly, it drys in a couple of minutes. It will provide a high preasure lube to let cap walk, without metal transfer!!!! Also get the rotating assembly balance, and also check max timing!!!!! Advance coming in to quike will do it to!!!
Posted By: Labratt

Re: ARP MAIN CAP STUD KIT??? - 03/06/12 02:09 AM

Thanks for that info,Dwayne! Will I need to do that with ARP studs...and SD Concept aluminum caps? I'm leaning pretty heavily in favor of the old BCR-design billet caps!
Posted By: bcrproducts

Re: ARP MAIN CAP STUD KIT??? - 03/06/12 02:23 AM

No you should install the alloy caps dry. That being said never tried it any other way and we have zero issues.
Jerry is shipping caps and girdles this week thanks for all of your patience guys

Greg
Posted By: Jerry

Re: ARP MAIN CAP STUD KIT??? - 03/06/12 02:42 AM

that is correct, definitely install the aluminum caps dry. and greg is also correct the cap and girdle kits will be shipping this week. i have standard aluminum main caps already boxed up and we've already sent some out.
Posted By: Labratt

Re: ARP MAIN CAP STUD KIT??? - 03/06/12 04:27 AM

Jerry..please contact me ASAP! THANKS! Randy B.
Posted By: Labratt

Re: ARP MAIN CAP STUD KIT??? - 03/06/12 07:35 PM

Got a call from Jerry,the owner of SD Concepts...who are now making the BCR aluminum main caps. He invited me to take a tour of his facility..which is approx. an hour from my house. I plan on taking pictures..and will be posting them that night. Most likely Thursday evening. I plan on stopping by his shop on my way back from Detroit..Thursday afternoon.
Posted By: dragram440

Re: ARP MAIN CAP STUD KIT??? - 03/06/12 08:11 PM

I also have the 440 source billet steel caps. They did take some machine work to make them fit. Seem to be working.
Posted By: Jerry

Re: ARP MAIN CAP STUD KIT??? - 03/06/12 11:24 PM

Thanks for posting Randy, also i wanted to put up an open invitation to anyone on the board who may want to stop by and check out the caps. we will most likely be hitting the show circuit next year and hitting most of the major mopar shows and if I can't do it by myself, hopefully at least a distributor will be there.

we will be introducing the billet rear main seals next week. following that we will be reintroducing mopar billet fuel rails for small blocks and big blocks and the new and old hemis. we used to sell a ton of these every year, and will now be getting back into them.

we also have an upgrade mopar serpentine belt kit for the big blocks out. the new one will be made from 6061 aluminum as the cast cores we were using are getting almost impossible to find.

small block serpentine belt kit will follow.

mopar specific 4 bbl and 2bbl (six pack throttle bodies are on the list in early summer.)

and we are always looking for additions to the list that people may need or want. our website will be back up soon as well.
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