no love for the truck V10

I know they are gas hogs and way tuned down but I love mine.

Only Brand New Vehicle ever for me. Special ordered ('96) with a Reg cab 2500 V10 stick, Dana 80 and 60.

Of all the treasures collected in my lifetime, my oldest boys both think it is the most valuable.

I often pondered turbo charging it? Just think how badly ANY of the big three Diesels would run with NO boost?

I used to get the strangest looks pullin' a #4200 boat up steep reservoir ramps.

Granny gear just off idle and nearly SILENT!

Great to hear.

I refer to my 99 CTD as the garbage truck, no way going up the launch ramp quiet

My 96 v10 Ram is stil going strong. Rusting to nothing but still runs great with 165000 on it now. It is still almost all original except for belt, battery, brakes and front steering parts.

Wish I would have kept the 96 V10 Club Cab long box 2WD I bought new, but when the engine blew at 1000 miles I was soured even though the dealer put a new engine in right away. The other issue was I ordered it two tone white and aqua and it came in all aqua like my buddy's truck! I did have another 2001 V10 5-speed which was a great driver, but it ran out of steam quickly with the 4.10 gears...

Back in the 1990s a computer tech living near Boston had pretty good results supercharging his V10 Dodge. He online name was Ramhack.

He later removed the supercharger but kept the 34 lb/hr injectors and reported that the 8L ran better with them.

I have always felt V10s needed a lower over drive top gear than 0.69 when running light.
This is the main reason they have gas hog reputations.

The SAE paper about the then new iron V10 bragged that it had better fuel economy than a GM 454 V8 at the same loads.

For those that have not read about it, "Maximum Bob" Lutz had his engineers build the V10 as an educational project to fully test out a new computer drafting/design/balancing program Chysler bought. Lutz admitted to Carroll Shelby that older Chrysler design V8s like 426 and 440 would have been updatable but he wanted to test out the new computer programs with a fresh and unusual V10.

0.69 overdrive is about right for a 5.2 V8
but 5.9s need about 0.6
and 8L need about 0.5 ratios.

The OD thing would certainly help, they were just turning too many RPM on the highway even with the 3.55 gears. I bet a tight quench would help a ton though also.

Before I put the Ford rear in my truck ( in pic) it was a NON posi...
After I launched my boat one time, friends wife offered to park the truck and trailer for me.. Bad Idea... Burnout all the way up the ramp and halfway to a parking spot.. 454/Turbo 400 in the truck....

Just saw one on the street in Spokane today. Black 96 short bed standard cab 4x4. Clear coat was all baked off the thing but was very straight and rust free. Nice looking truck overall. V10's are not a common sight around here these days.

What can we learn about Quench clearance
and the ratio of rod length to stroke
By looking at

Magnum 5.2 .... 3.31 .... 9.1 comp ratio
Magnum 5.9 .... 3.58 .... 8.9 ( really 8.7 or so)
Iron V10 8.0 .... 3.84 .... 8.4

All wth 6.123 connecting rods

Willem Weertman says in his book Chrysler Engines
that the 8 L Iron block truck V10 used the Magnum 5.9 pistons to keep costs down

As the rod/stroke ratio gets Higher
The piston "dwells" longer near top dead center
And allegedly the fuel burning completes faster because pressure stays higher

I wish Bob Lutz had ordered the engineers using the new computer programs
to build the first iron V10 with a 3.31 stroke and the flat top Magnum 5.2 pistons,
and maybe a tight quench 10.5 to 1 compression ratio requiring premium 92 AKI gasoline,
then increased the stroke every couple years to add cubic inches.

How do the heads flow on those motors? Is it worth milling and getting the compression/quench up or are there other limiting factors. You can get a v10 truck for cheap, but I've never messed with them either.


Kind of like the GM 8.1L big block, it's just starting to get a following of people trying to get more performance out of them.

If that was a 'true' '96 ram v10 shortbox me thinks he has a one O' one!

I tried in late "95 to order mine with a shortbox.
Guess I saw too many 'fallguys"?

Mine has the full boogie diesel chassis, and since she was a stick it got the Dana 80.

My oldest Son has been looking for another?

restriction is in the intake.i have heard of people gasket matching the upper and lower intake to heads for up to 40hp.i like my v-10 but it does suck gas lol.it tows a car trailer and u cant even tell its their

7-9 pounds of boost on that 8.4 ( perhaps less) e85 .

If only I had a tuner.(megasquirt)? They never made squat fer the iron v10?

I've never seen such a truck. Homemade or otherwise.

Maybe the doors were replacement from a V10 truck...

The aluminum V10 cylinder head has had lots of porting experimentation by shops,
but the iron V10 head ports are supposedly very different,
smaller in order to get peak momentum airflow rates at lower rpm for bottom end torque.
The official Chrysler press release claims the iron V10 makes 90% of peak torque at only 1200 rpm.

Iron V10 heads have individual exhaust ports on each cylinder
unlike small block 5.2/5.9 cyl heads,
but i wonder if one of the two different official Mopar Performance sold
Magnum 5.2/5.9 plastic intake templates
might be a good guide for intake side porting?
The shapes of the V8 and V10 combustion chambers are very similar.

Sorry to hear.

The iron v10 fo' sure got no support from the aftermarket. Guess most were happy (or unhappy and got rid of them?)

I relate mine to a 488 ci. in. '2' barrel. it has no big hit when you floor it. Just seamless smooth power? An old Farmer I worked with when it was ordered could not believe I was ordering it with 3.5 gear? (he thought 4.56/4,88 would be his ideal)

She tips the scales at 6000 with me in it and is rev limited to 4850 RPM. (probably why it's still together 20+ years later)
I too have had great durability, new suspension, one serpentine a couple sets of plugs and a new clutch at 120,000 (thanks son) hits the rev limiter at a bit over 120 MPH in fourth.

My pup and I went on a mushroom expedition last spring up to N Michigan. We ran 80-85 and got 14 MPG. (180,000 on the clock)

My old bud had one for nearly as long and hauled a 6 horse with living quarters hay firewood and everything else. He said that old gas engine would "pass everything but a gas station".

He finally got a Cummins, but still has a glint in his eye when talking about his old v10.

Oooopps,

forgot, the front Dana liked to eat U-joints. think I'm on my third set. Original alternator, starter, water pump everything else.

Plenty of love for the Dodge V10 here, we had a '96. 2wd long box club cab would get 15mpg on the highway. In town it was heavy on fuel. Driving it was a pleasure and compares to a 440 C-Body. I test drove a 4wd V10 and it wasn't near as nice to drive and was slower than the 2wd.

Big mistake on the discontinuation of that engine.

Just picked up a Ford V10 and it's a way different engine than the Dodge: it's a screamer.

Since mine has a stick me thinks it got a different 'puter (ECM)?

I know and have driven 2 other '96s (all 4x4) with autos and raced both. Even rowin' the gears through that 2 foot gate I could easily stomp both of them?

I sure wish it didn't fall on its face at 4800 RPM. if I had an extra 1000 RPM???????????????


Yea I know turning that thing to 6000 would probably result in bad things?


Since there is no aftermarket to speak of, putting 7-9 pounds of boost 'should' surely wake that old dawg up?

I hear they had generous injectors but the throttle body was the cork?

Loved my '03 QC sb 2wd. Towed my 5th wheel just as well as my CTD does. Only problem is the CTD gets better fuel mileage towing the 5er than the V10 did empty.

Boost has been done Momopar, there is a video on Youtube of a guy that put a turbo V10 in a First Gen.

Poor quality video but you sure get the idea. Even 4 or 6 pounds to stay on the safe side would get the torque to 600.

Yes, saw that one.

Info for the iron v10 is few and far between.
I talked to a tuner a few times about boost and running e85. He was pretty cold about it and steered me towards someone local? There is NO one local and only two nationally that deal with tuning the factory ecm (found in my research)

Guess I be on my own.

I do remember researching back in '95 and for '96 the Cummins was rated more torque with the stick than the auto? v10 same, same auto vs stick?


HMMM 300 HP was good back then, best HP for a gas truck engine at the time? Now the Pentastar v6 has more ha,ha!

Anyone know of an easy way to raise the REV limiter?
That has been my biggest biotch about the truck.

That dude fallin' on its face at 4800 has nearly cost me in the past, especially when passing pulling a load.

That old iron pig should be able to rev 6000 on occasion for short spurts eh?

SCT tuner has a tune to raise it 1000rpm

One tidbit i remember is that the 8.4 compression ration 8L iron V10 in high GCWR HD Ram pickups had its own Champion heat range 9 sparkplug, whereas the 5.2/5.9 V8s had Champion heat range 14 plugs.

I called the Champion sparkplug 800 number on a whim and asked why this was, and was told

"The 5.2/5.9 Magnum V8s need heat range 9 too,
But the lower GCWR half ton pickups have to meet tighter EPA emission controls,
so they have to have a heat range 14 Champion spark plug
so that they will miss fire less on a totally cold startup
and have less HC and CO emissions
in the first three minutes of running at less than full operating temperature"

YUP!

I use the proper plug.

Tried Bosch NGK and Autolite and the Champions do best.


I looked into an SCT. he wasn't real perceptive on a 6000 RPM limit?


YIKES!

The old dawg will do 120+ now hitting the 4800 rev limiter,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,in fourth!

We just finished a 1600+ mile trip pulling my 28 foot enclosed car trailer with my V-10 1999 Ram 2500.

The truck pulled great, the 8 mpg kinda sucked.

Originally the 8.0L made 350 hp / 450 ft lbs of torque.Same parts as engine was built with.Production was 300 hp/415 lbs ft IIRC. Cal was changed to satisfy the trans group.Pulled the advance out of the cal (good-bye mileage). Later a dual throttle body version was tested but not built (350 hp/500 ft lbs of torque). Mopar Perf claimed a fifty or more hp gain with a cam they listed in the MP catalog for a while.

Engine had an issue with oil drain back (cyl hd design issue) and crank windage. Above 4400 the engine badly needed a different (deeper) oil pan with a tray as stock pan was very close to crank.Serious oil pressure problems killed the hp (peak hp was @ 4800) version. It was on schd for 2004. Powers to be decided it wasn't needed as the 5.7L was ready.

6-7 pound of boost and a tuner to put the rev limiter at ~ 5800 seems like the way to go?

300/450 was the specs for '96 both auto and manual.

Funny the Diesel of that year the stick had more torque by a fair amount?

(detuned for the slushbox?)

Like said "no love for the iron v10"

20 years I have looked and found little to nothing on the old 10. Kind of a shame since I plan on keeping mine forever.

I can put lots O' gas in her compared to the cost associated with a new truck. (and I no longer have to worry about door dings scratches hauling stuff etc)

Someone on here worked and saw what ever (R&D) on the iron v10?

I would be tickled to find a Mopar performance computer for a '96!

At least it wouldn't puke at 4850 RPM (damitalltohell)

All this V10 talk made me dig out the Magnum book. The firing order is r-l-r-l-r-l-r-l-r-l which would require a flat plane crank for a V-8. Sure would suck to replace the oil pump though.

Wonder how hard a PCM would be to find, and there were headers and catback exhaust packages.

Anyone willing to make a cam? Maybe start with a Viper blank for a custom grind?

Pretty cool torque motors, no wonder the farmer was puzzled by the 3.55 choice. My Dad figured 4.10s in a work truck was for city slickers and dude ranchers, lol.

Comp used to list a couple cams and Crower makes some for the iron v10 too.

My best approach still seems to be a turbo and perhaps a couple 'piggyback" injectors running off a WOT micro or some kind of boost signal?

Me thinks the timing is retarded enough to get away with 6-8 pounds of boost without too much trouble?

e85 to the piggybacks?

cam and programmer to raise limiter is cheaper but wont give u the power of turbo.sct tuner woke mine up

"Necessity is the Mother of all inventions"?

Talked to the best SCT guy out there and he seemed pretty cold at the whole Idea?

I have read the Mopar ECM raised the rev limiter? (but also bumped timing requiring premium)

Been looking on the bag and only find stock ones?

Mine is a stick and always ran alot better than my buds auto of the same year? He always thought my ECM was tuned better? Probably not, just no torque control needed with the stick ECM.

i got an auto all power in at 3000 rpm.with premium gas tune it pulls to a little over 5000 rpms am happy with power in stock form cause the trannsmission was built with shift kit that made a big difference.look up hemifever tuning,

I might have to shoot him another email.

He has some tunes for the iron v10 and also has an all out one he made up for a puller.

I started talkin' turbo/e85 and he thought I would be better served with a "local" Guy (gal).

Straight up dude, can't blame him,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Only,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

There is NO one local?

The 5.9 PCMs always disabled the limiter, and required premium. I'd imagine the V-10 ones did too.

"Pulled the advance out of the cal (good-bye mileage)."

Later it was done for some reason on the V-8s. The Dakota RT community trembled at the thought of "the death flash"

Short term I'll probably drop the dime on an SCT.

I emailed Sean a few times and he has some interesting tunes. Like said he seems to be a straight up (real mopar guy) and aint no cash snaggin' salesman fo' sure!

There is just so little out there on the old iron pig that I thought someone out there (in the moparts world) has seen something I missed in all the research?

Like said earlier "take the turbo off any of the big three diesels and they would be pretty pitiful eh?

Long term I am going to engineer a boost system for the old low compression pig.

May give me a reason to post my first youtube?

YUP your Dad and ole Dell would really snicker at the effective gear with 33s on her now.

figures out to 3.23.

Gotta admit you can feel her labor a little stop and go with the new meats, but she sings right along on the interstates.

Running 75 (by the speedo a bit over 2000) she doesn't get passed often?

If you ever drove through NE Indiana NW Ohio you would know there is not even a 100 foot elevation change in 100 miles!

If hills are encountered the old torque is a plenty in 4th gear. (even with an effective 3.23:1)

I realize that this is an old thread, and the V10 could probably be considered as an "orphan" engine now, but I am in the process of converting the V10 in my '95 2500 4x4 to Megasquirt. If anyone is interested in this sort of thing perhaps we can keep this thread going or start a new one. Whatever works to keep the V10 interest alive.

Robert

Can you share some more about the rest of the engine and truck? Other engine mods? Thanks.

Ryan at flyin ryan performance has tuned a few of these. He does a lot more than raising the limiter by 1,000

Who was that? Sean hasn't been the best for quite some time. He failed to advance his skills and give the customer what he wants.

I'll try to keep it brief.
I like the V10. It suits my style. It has more torque and power than the Cummins turbo diesel of the same year, but it burns twice as much fuel doing it. Nothing is perfect.
I also like the Gen1 trucks. 2500 4x4, extended cab, long box to be specific. I don't like automatic transmissions. A couple of years ago I went looking for such a truck with the V10 and the NV4500 5 speed. Turns out they are extremely rare, at least in this part of the world. I finally found a ’95, it has severe body rust, but I bought it for the drive train thinking I’ll look for a truck with a good body and do the swap. I found a very nice ’01 a few months ago with a 360 and automatic. The conversion won’t be easy but at least I’ll end up with what I want.
The V10 is an orphan engine. Parts are getting hard to come by and are expensive, if available at all. The crank and cam sensors are no longer available from any source. If one goes bad, you have to get creative.
I am a big fan of Megasquirt and have converted several engines to MS. MS3 is now reported to support the V10. There are a few documented examples of MS3 on Vipers, but I can find nothing where anyone has used it on a truck engine. This all adds to the appeal.
The engine runs well enough now. It has good compression and decent oil pressure. No bad noises. But it burns oil on decel. Lots of it. I suspect it is valve seals and/or oil control rings, so the engine will need freshening up before I do the transfer. Before I pull it though, I want to get it running well on MS. I don’t want to have to do the tuning process on a fresh engine.
The engine will remain completely stock internally. The factory has done a very good job of building it for what I want to do. I’m hoping that with programmable EFI, I may be able to get a bit better mileage at part load, but if it doesn’t happen, it won’t break my heart.
At this point I have MS3 assembled and bench tested. I have the wiring diagrams made up to interface MS3 into the ’95 harness. I am waiting for some PCBs that I designed for the ignition drivers. They are long overdue and are probably lost in the mail so I have re-ordered from another board house. When they eventually get here I’ll be able to get it all connected and start tuning
So, there you have it, for what it’s worth.

Robert

Sounds like a cool project! I'm interested to see how much extra power you can get from the optimized tuning on a stock engine. How are you going to interact with the 01 dash? What transmission? Or are you converting everything to '95?

It looks like the stock timing map is very conservative at full load. I'm not sure why Chrysler did this. I may experiment with that but I'm not prepared to spend a lot of time and money on dyno time. It will be road tuning only so I am not expecting much if any difference in the power department. It would be nice if I could squeak out a bit better economy though.
As I mentioned, the transmission will be the NV4500 manual, but interfacing with the '01 dash will be a challenge. I'm going to have to figure a way I can fool the stock PCM into thinking it is still running the engine in order for the dash to work. I have the factory manuals for both the '95 and '01 but they don't give out much in the way of theory of operation so there will be a lot of experimenting going on.

I think you should consider the FiTech power adder system:

Website

These things are getting a lot of attention lately because it's simple.

And, of course, I say the power adder system because you are going to take my suggestion above and run a turbo......right?

Interesting, but no thanks. I have about 12 years experience with MS so I'll stick with what I'm comfortable with. As for a turbo, I really don't want to find out where the weak link in the chain is on a daily driver that will probably get some heavy work outs.

Robert

I'd think the factory thinking about the V10 was it would be used in a lot of heavy pulling duty. So the WOT settings would be very conservative, both in timing and in A/F ratio. The Chevy trucks of those same years went quite rich at WOT to keep exhaust temperatures down. Tuners found there was MPG and power to be had by cutting things a little closer.

R.

Makes sense to me.

Robert

That's probably because there are no shared components between the Viper and the truck engine so everything would have to be fabricated for a low performance engine.
I actually think a twin rear turbo kit would really get a large truck moving. You have all the room for plumbing and won't add as much underhood heat.

The only short bed 2500 Rams were on "club" and then "quad" cab chassis.
Back in the late '90s there was a guy in the Pensacola Fl. area who took a nearly new short bed,std. cab V6 Ram and swapped in the drivetrain from a wrecked V10 2500!
Very cool truck! I think he added some stripes, wish I'd taken some pics.