whiplash break in!

got the 440 upper end freshend up the last 2 weekends.

swapped on a set of rebuilt 452 heads with the Hughes springs,hedman hedders, 3" pipes/3" muffs.

test drove and runs great no issues.

this weekend I swapped in the hughes whiplash cam, lifters, t-chain,t-cover, M/T valave covers, cleaned up the wire harness down the VC area.

fired it up first spin, run for 30 mins to break cam in,shut down to cool down some, drove 10 miles with no issues.

let it cool down and changed oil out for the Amsoil high zinc 100% full synthetic 10w40 oil with amsoil large filter.

drove 35 miles at different speeds none over 65 mph. shut down over night, fired right up this morning for a 40 mile ride to work no issues.

the q-jet is gong to the shelf and the holley 650 dbl pumper is going on for fine tunning after work today.

man I am stoked..it is a nasty sounding beast now but drives rather tame on the street like advertised.

HUGHES ENGINES

Sounds good. I would go for a larger carb though. Maybe an 850 or at least a 750.

pics or it didn't happen Scratch.

I will get a pic up tonight..I think I got the phone/email/save jpg/and new steps to posting on the board.

I do have a holley 6213 800cfm spredbore dbl pumper, But with the stock MH cam/manifolds the 650 really worked great and felt like it was "just right" but a little rich.

i think he meant "vids, or it didn't happen" we can't hear the sounds, with a pic. come on, man, you're holding out on the brothers....

Definitely a video.
Getting me excited to get mine together Scratch.

You're killing me scratch. May I ask what valve springs you used?

Good job Scratch! You got me beat by a mile. I broke my Whiplash in 5 months ago but I haven't driven the truck yet. It is ready now though, well almost. Front end alignment Friday, then I am on the street.

Hey Scratch, what size cam did you go with?

well this facebook lurker need to catch me in the act for a pic/vid.

I don't have parts to tune the q-jet and low vac is not helping it at all. drivable but got watch the idle in gear when stoped.

it is slow to return to idle, then the vac will pull the needles down and drop rpm fast. so..

need to get the holley on, I have it already set up with the the PV in the correct ball park and returned the carb to specs to start tunning it in from there.

the cam is the 440 flat tappet whiplash cam. used the Hughes matching spring, pro-gear DR t-chain/gears,milodon t-cover/timming tab.

all superformance gaskets, which are very nice.

I think I will save up for the RTR firecore dist/wires next. BUT most likely NEED tires next.

I bought a Whiplash for the 360 from the Doba and it's in the motor but not in the car. I'm thinking about putting it into the 80 PU till I get the Doba done. Looking forward to a listen. Love that cam.

Scratch, what are you pulling for vacuum at idle?

GOOD ? , GOT ME?

I am on lunch and swapping the q-jet off for the holley. then after work I will put a vac gauge on and recheck timming/rpm.

its in the 800-900 rpm range and fluctuating on idle due to power piston spring...what I thin any ways.

I let you know tonight.

Holley fits in a matter on mins. got it running and dialed in enough to keep a idle...mucho better already. can blip the throttle enough to tip the 2ndarys in with no delay.

should be a few more mins after work and another test ride.

I think you will like it.

I know I would be real happy with that car and a 360 whiplash.

Looks really nice Scratch.
Wish I had my BB in something. Some day tho', some day.
May I ask, "What is the part # for that wiplash cam?"
I have an old motorhome 360 I'm wanting to put in my 76 and a good cam wouldn't hurt.

I wish I could wrench on my truck on break!

I am running the 318/5.2 whiplash roller cam HUG-HMR0814ALN-7

my 440 flat tappet whiplash cam HUG-SMC3245BL

I used comp 901-16 springs with the whiplash roller.

I used Hughes springs matched to the 440 whiplash cam.

I plan to run a 360 whiplash roller cam HUG-HMR2228ALN-7 in a 360 headed 318 with comp 901-16 springs.
adding a 2500 TC

best thing on the flat tappet whiplash cams is they are 165$ each.

my first engine build in 92' was around 2500$. since then I have used 300$ JY engines with a cam swap and have had more fun with 3 JY engines for about the same amount of $ since 02'

400$ on the rollers but no break in woes with them. now that roller 318/360 are 20+ yrs old they are cheap enough to play with.

only way to get a jump on the dark and skeeters.

I'm picking up a 60 Dodge Dart Phoenix in a couple of weeks. It's got a good running mystery rebuild 440 in it that I'm looking to tinker on. Currently it's got a stock intake, an edelbrock carb, stock manifolds, points distributor, stock torque converter and 2.76 gears. Mods I'm looking to do are Hedman shorty headers, CH28 intake with dual 9906 AVS's, ported 915 heads, a Petronix ignition, 3.23 sure grip, and possibly a higher stall converter. Also going to see what cam is in it and possibly replace it. Was thinking of a Summitt 6401 but the whiplash is looking pretty intriguing.
One neat thing about this engine is it has an 8 bolt crank, curious to see what else is inside

sounds cool. 8 bolt crank, now that HD/HP

I am running a 2.76 right now for highway action,and have a 3.23/3.91sg. also have the Edelbrock 440 RPM intake along with the Holley Street Dominator intake.

out of the 6 intakes I tried those two are the keeprs.

the holley is an improvement but looks like a lower PV is needed with it. I only get 5-6 inches of vac in gear at a 750-800 rpm idle. in N it idles close to 900-1000 rpm droping to the 750-800 abrubtly and almost stall then recovers slightly and chops away.

I know it close though.

my 318 gave me fits till I got the right PV in the 650 spredbore holley which is 8.5

IIRC when I rebuilt the 650 dbl pumper I used a 6.5 PV. I think I need to drop down to a 2.5 or 3.0 maybe?

the jets are 70 front/80 rear with 30cc pumps. this was just about perfect for the stock cam but a little rich.

I hope a PV change will fix it up. out of gas and cash at the moment.

I'd probably consider the 383/400 whiplash, it's abit milder and should have a little tamer idle

dropped down to a 4.5 PV, adjusted for highest vac reading in gear = 9.5",

idle in N = 13.5" with slight bounce on the needle at 900-950 rpm,

drops to 750 in gear, and rpm slips up 200-400 rpm on light throttle from a stop.

idles like a funny car and 3" pipes 2chamber muffs are...well LOUD! sounds nasty but LOUD!

I stopped for gas last night and wondered why I got a couple funny looks at store check out with my soda in hand.

I forgot I used to Marlboro filters in my ears for sound control while driving.

back log pics

more

Looks great. Love the look so far.

priceless

well been reading about PV and tuning the holley.

got the 650 dbl pumper close, but fighting the stock dist with points. I cant get it right.

watching the vac gauge as I cruz around I went back up from a 2.5 to a 7.5 and that seemed to be in the right direction.

get it to cruz, ok but idle sucked, crank up the curb idle, then it on the trans slots. I can dil the timing way back and get the mis-fire out of it but then it is a pig no guts, idle sucks in gear.

then Gorilla hand the wrench and striped the PV threds on the meter block, scratched up another one. made the whole thing way different? removed it and tried 2 holley spredbore carbs 650/800 I cleaned up with a fresh kit only to find both of them are old pieces of POOP! like the rest of my junk.

I "just" Had it close enough to make the cam break in and drive it a 1000 miles to run out of steam on it.

ever want something so bad that when you get it you find it is not as easy as it sounds to "JUST" have it.

no funds for any upgrades to the IGN system, out of carbs so looks like it goes to the back yard again for a while.

Sorry Scratch, they can be disheartening sometimes.

I just ordered the whiplash for my W200

the whiplash cam is great. break in went fine, over a 1000 miles on it with no hammer time with it skiping/pinging/surging. it is what's in my wallet that is killing me.

I just have to face facts and park it for a bit before something goes wrong it from timing, lean fuel supply ect.

50$ a week budget goes mighty slow just like my truck.

first thing first, so a upgrade for the Ign. system first. cant tune a carb if the timing is whacked.

then on to a new carb that hopefully will be close OOTB if there is such a carb to be had.

so I am in the junking/scraping mood with all my crap piled up to fund the Harley project and save each paycheck for the 440 upgrades while it sits out back.

good thing the whiplash roller cam in the 318 is running like a charm. I don't go near it with a tool and only talk sweet to it.

first and foremost let me say this is not a rant on hughes cams or firecore. not the issue here. I the tuner am the problem. lack of know how and skills at performance tuning.

well the wait is over. back to square one.

put a brand new edelbrock 750cfm carb on. seems like it will be enough if I ever get it tuned.

wait 1 week

junked both truck projects, I had 1200$ in the two trucks. got 500$ cash.

ordered the Firecore RTR dist/coil/wires/heat shields = 491$ to the door.

wait 10 days

install dist/wires goes smooth, looks good, fire up and start tuning.

yep back to same square one...vac gauge, timing light, any where in the timing tab scale it runs like crap.

advance it out of the scale vac gauge goes up to 10+ idles comes up, revs good drives like poop.

so..? I do the thing I did not want to do (why I bought the firecore RTR dist in the first place) I have to take the brand new dist apart and change springs.

used and scratched up now, first thing DRIVE the collar pin out.

never having done this type of thing before I can see why I never tried. 2hrs getting the thing back together which I think I got it back together right?

much better with the light spring but no sweet spot to be found as far as drivability.

the low vac in gear 7" and 10" in N are no good for the vac pod, so what do I do about that? hook it up to full vac and it drives like poop either way. I see a lot run with out it. I don't get it? how is that done?

I am so frustrated I cant stand myself, I fired me 3 days ago.

so back to square one which = waiting to save up $ again.

I have not had/wanted a drink in 3yrs but after to nights trip around the block being a disappointment, I am ready junk the 440 all together and put the stock 318 back in and buy a bottle of Jim Beam.

OH! right after I save up some cash again.

Sounds like other issues with the moder to me.....never had an engine with no issues that wouldn't run extremely well with:

1. Good Carb
2. Good Fuel
3. Good Ignition
4. Timing Marks Correct
5. Cam Degreed Correctly
6. Dizzy Phazed

Vacuum Leaks...????

Wipe Cam Lobe on Break-in...????

Have you done a leak down or at least ck'd cylinder pressure across all 8..???

Air
Fuel
Compression
Ignition

Try thinking simple and make small changes....????

sorry to hear these woes.....hope to hear better news soon

Rickster

it gives me just enough that I know it is almost there.

just low speed off idle

checked everything on the list and in good shape there.

I just need a break from it for now. just venting to keep from drinking at the moment.

I know I can do it, just not yet.

Mike, please call me. You do not need to take the distributor apart to change the springs. Needle nose pliers and patience. I am installing a Ready to Run and coil in my '73 400 wagon tomorrow. Dead stock. We'll see what happens.

The Performer 750 Edelbrocks aren't very good carbs, lots of guys have issues with them. I've got one on a stock (except for headers) 77 440 and it's not very good. Lean bog when you try to give it ANY throttle from a stop, linkeag is all jacked (secondaries only open approx 1/2 way. I'm replacing it with a Thunder Series 800

seems out of the 5 carbs I have (all 650cfm) will not idle now that I have the firecore dist/wires on. have to jack up the throttle till on transfer slots or main boosters.

got the new OOTB 750cfm performer bolted on it.

changing the advance springs in the dist and this carb got me a good idle, crisp throttle response in N, idle in gear at a redlite with no mis-fire or problems while sitting in gear.

off idle stumble is almost gone but still there. not there when you step down 1/4 throttle.

now I am supposed to limit the mech advance so it does not advance too much at speed/WOT (where it still runs like poop)

cant even grasp how that's done and these "keys" they talk of no one seems to know or have??

so I idle around town and trips to the circle-k just to warm it up good.

I think this is where it will stay. I don't want to go back into the dist. at least I am mobile again with it. slow but mobile.

so it is what it is,looks good, sounds good, runs like poop.

I will settle for the 2 out of 3 and call it done.

back to the Harley project.

What happens at WOT?

when I advance it to where it wants/needs to be for base timing, it then has too much mech advance. can get up to 13" vac in N with 10" vac in gear.

so dail it back to where it is correct on total advance with a low base setting for 10" vac in N and 7" vac in gear and have a fair WOT it feels like it is holding back as it builds RPM. drops of vac reading, sluggish, retarded low on power.

this is "JUST" enough vac signal to keep the lightest step-up springs down on idle.

not going to try calibrating the 1407 with a 60$ kit cause with out the advance curve correct there is no use in it.

so it at a spot I can live with.

Please call my cell tomorrow. Can be done is 2 minutes. 216-224-3667. Thanks, Rick

FYI, these limiter plates work great for guys with mopar distributors
http://www.4secondsflat.com/Mopar%20Mechanical%20timing%20limiter%20plate.htm

I just got done installing and tuning a whiplash cam in my friends 400 big block with and Edelbrock carb and wideband. You WILL have to recurve the distributor to get it to work. I ended up with 20 degrees initial timing. Had around 8 inches of vacuum in neutral at idle. Could not get the throttle blades backed down to the tranfer slots, so I had to drill the primary blades to bypass more air. Once I got the blades back into the right spot, idle was way too lean. So, I restricted the idle air bleeds which got my idle mixture good. Then it was just normal tuning of the cruise and WOT numbers. In the end the car does run good now and have good power, but I don't think I would use another whiplash cam.

I wonder where the difference lies between our builds? I am at 15 degrees initial timing and have 15 inches of vacuum at idle.

Ignorance kicked in and I am so over it. close enough and sounds good enough to trade the engine/trans for a 318/727 that's already tuned and running. I drove it last night and made the deal this morning.

[quote=

Ignorance kicked in and I am so over it. close enough and sounds good enough to trade the engine/trans for a 318/727 that's already tuned and running. I drove it last night and made the deal this morning. [/quote]

Noooooooo!!!!!

just my luck! I roll out the yard 6:30 this morning to head 40 miles to B&E performance to drop off the truck for the engine swap.

got 2 miles from the house and like a switch lost all IGN/spark to the firecore dist.

still has power to the coil with key though. so not sure whats up yet.

I am making a post on trouble shooting system. never cared for the mopar pick-up style parts so not sure how to test any of it.

I hope to drop the points dist back in at noon to get it to the shop for the swap.