Future 5.9 engine build for 3/4 ton ram

My 318 in my 99 dak is on it's way out and I am planning on building a 5.9 with KB107s grind out the space between the valve releifs and round off the short edges a little, set it to .035 quench re-use the 318 cam, I am going to try to find a way to keep the heat off the plenum pan (they detonate so bad because the intake air is heated so bad from hot oil off the cam hitting the belly pan), exhaust will be 618 and 619 manifolds, V10 head pipes into a good 3 inch single exhaust. I will do mild port work to clean things up and a good VJ to help low lift flow, ported stock throttle body and cold air intake. I got about 100 rods to pick from, pick the 8 lightest, grind the corners down a little to remove weight then grind some of the funky bosses off the crank and balance it. Stick in the yellow ford 5.4 injectors and slap it together.

I would like to do long tube 1 5/8 headers but the good ones are too expensive and I will not use the cheap headers.

I daily drive this truck and hardly ever rev over 3000 RPM with the 5 speed trans. In my experience this will make tons of low end TQ and make awesome MPG. I added R/T durango sway bars and t-bars up front and an extra leaf and thicker sway bar in the rear so it tows better than my old 98 1/2 ton did, I just can't put any thing back together stock

Posted By: Guitar Jones

Re: Future 5.9 engine build for 3/4 ton ram - 03/05/15 10:58 PM

If you are interested in torque for pulling then you should have a lot of interest in a stroker. It doesn't cost that much more for a cast 4" arm. The pistons are about the same, it's really a no brainer.

Posted By: HotRodDave

Re: Future 5.9 engine build for 3/4 ton ram - 03/06/15 12:04 AM

It is true you would have a hard time getting more than maybe %10 more TQ without stroking it. MPG can easily be improved.

A stroker is a lot more money if you are on a tight budget, $150 turn a crank, $200 balancing (although with the KB107 you may get away without it), $266 summit kb107, re-use stock rods=$616 you can not buy a new stroker crank balancing and pistons for that even at the best sale prices. The cheapest possible way would be a SCAT crank and stumble on some NOS mopar cast pistons and even at that you will not get tight quench and decent compression without milling your block a lot.

Posted By: kenworth_goose

Re: Future 5.9 engine build for 3/4 ton ram - 03/06/15 04:38 AM

I meant to say KB190's instead of 107's

Posted By: Guitar Jones

Re: Future 5.9 engine build for 3/4 ton ram - 03/06/15 02:32 PM

Quote:

It is true you would have a hard time getting more than maybe %10 more TQ without stroking it. MPG can easily be improved.

A stroker is a lot more money if you are on a tight budget, $150 turn a crank, $200 balancing (although with the KB107 you may get away without it), $266 summit kb107, re-use stock rods=$616 you can not buy a new stroker crank balancing and pistons for that even at the best sale prices. The cheapest possible way would be a SCAT crank and stumble on some NOS mopar cast pistons and even at that you will not get tight quench and decent compression without milling your block a lot.

I disagree. Just a quick search, Ohio Crankshaft has cast 4" 360 main cranks for $345. http://www.ohiocrank.com/mopar_cranks.html. If you are buying KB pistons the stroker pistons price is nearly the same. You would need to balance the crank either way. Reuse the stock rods. So if you have to turn the stock crank the difference is only about $200. If you don't need to turn the crank then you are only looking at about $350 difference. Where's the big expense? You are still boring and decking the block.

Posted By: HotRodDave

Re: Future 5.9 engine build for 3/4 ton ram - 03/06/15 09:19 PM

The cheapest readily available stroker piston is the KB356 at $420 a set and you have to pay a machine shop to mill the dome off or it will hit a magnum head. Count on at least $100 there.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/uem-kb356-030

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/uem-kb107-030

Stroker...

Pistons $420
Mill piston $100 probably more
Crank $350

$870

Not stroker...

Pistons $266
Crank $150

$416

And that is asuming the 360 crank needs balanced, the KB107 is about the same weight as a 5.9 magnum piston, in a low RPM motor you would probably be wasting your money. Without balancing the 360 crank it would be even bigger difference. Also with MPG as a consideration the smaller engine wins and the flat top piston wins.

PS I have used stock rods in 4 inch strokers and there is a lot of grinding, if you don't/can't do it yourself you have to pay a machine shop to clearance your block.

Posted By: Guitar Jones

Re: Future 5.9 engine build for 3/4 ton ram - 03/06/15 09:49 PM

At Summit I see the KB356 for $420, the KB190 for $324, so $100. Why would you have to mill the piston? It's made for the stroker and a Magnum head. I didn't do the math because we don't know what his deck height will be and I'm at work but even if there is a problem thicker head gaskets are available. I don't see the block clearancing as a problem. An hour with a die grinder and carbide bur will easily accomplish the task unless you are totally inept at mechanical things, in which case you shouldn't be building an engine anyway.

It just doesn't make sense to not consider the stroker for it's obvious low end grunt capabilities over the 360.

As for the fuel mileage question, gasoline engines deliver their best fuel economy at the RPM where they are most volumetric efficient, which in a stroker would be at a lower RPM. All subject to head flow and camshaft of course. You would have to build a more radical 360 to get the same torque as a stroker which would mean having to turn it harder.

Posted By: DaytonaTurbo

Re: Future 5.9 engine build for 3/4 ton ram - 03/06/15 11:18 PM

Not to sound like an [Edited by Moparts - Family Friendly Site - Keep it clean] but if the extra 500 bucks is a make or break on his engine rebuild, he is going to run out of money on a stock stroke rebuild. In that case has has business even pulling pistons out of the block, he should just be running a stock bottom end.

As for fuel mileage, ANY gas engine in a 3/4 ton is going to get crap for mpg, especially with a load behind it. A struggling 318 or a gas v10 in a 6000lb 3/4 ton truck are both going to get bad mpg, now put a 6000lb load behind the truck and see what happens.

Posted By: HotRodDave

Re: Future 5.9 engine build for 3/4 ton ram - 03/06/15 11:43 PM

The KB 190 (stock stroke) and 356 (4 inch stroke) both for some stupid reaon have a step that comes up above the deck and it WILL hit the head without machining it off, that hyper material is very hard so good luck taking it off with a file. It is there so you can pretend to get quench with an open chamber head and will not work without milling it off in a magnum build, I have been there and done it, wasted the money and learned the lesson. The KB107 on the other hand is the piston he needs for a stock stroke and it is like $266 at summit.

It sounds like most of his driving is empty (even I would not believe his MPG claims if he was loaded down). That being the case a correctly built 5.9 will get better MPG than a stroker. That all being said I am going to drop a 392 stroker in my 4x4 dakota and a 410 in my 2wd R/T dakota because the trade off in MPG is ok, I am a firm beleiver in strokers but in his case it may or may not be a good plan. He asked how to build a 360 not a 408. The costs always seem to add up to more than planned when talking strokers

Posted By: kenworth_goose

Re: Future 5.9 engine build for 3/4 ton ram - 03/07/15 03:08 AM

I will Never consider a stroker. I can make as much power with a stock stroke 360. I built 2 360's in the past that made well over 435hp and were torque monsters and very streetable. I have used stoke 273 rods in both WITHOUT any balancing and using KB 190's. I've done this 2 times with zero issues, and zero vibrations. Both were shifted well over 6500rpm and both engines are still running today.

Posted By: HotRodDave

Re: Future 5.9 engine build for 3/4 ton ram - 03/07/15 03:29 AM

I will not argue the HP but a stroker just makes more TQ no way around it.

I need to clarify my statement about the kb190 piston, it is a flat top with a raised area(the kb356 is a dished piston that still has a big dome on one side)and will hit the magnum on two sides of the head, not just one like the 356. If you mill all that off of it you get what is known as a KB107 + a lot less money in your pocket. They work fine in a 360 LA but not a magnum.

I built a 360 LA with the kb107 one time and it vibrated, just a little, then after re-doing it exactly the same with a balance job it pulled a lot harder up top. It did not feel like it was killing itself or anything but it was way happier at 6000 RPM after balancing.

Posted By: kenworth_goose

Re: Future 5.9 engine build for 3/4 ton ram - 03/07/15 03:44 AM

What I'm going to build will rarely see 4k so I'm comfortable building it without balancing. I will reuse the 360 rods because they are heavier. I'm building a truck engine, I want more torque and mileage. Compression will get me both as long as I drive like a old man. I will occasionally pull a trailer. I won't ever see more than 4-6k behind my truck. Trans is getting a rebuild with some upgrades as well. My city mileage sucks, but the highway is great with cruise on 55.

Posted By: GO_Fish

Re: Future 5.9 engine build for 3/4 ton ram - 03/07/15 05:31 PM

Quote:

I am going to try to find a way to keep the heat off the plenum pan (they detonate so bad because the intake air is heated so bad from hot oil off the cam hitting the belly pan

Dave, I've got a valley tray on my LA 360 with Mag heads. It keeps hot oil off the bottom of the intake + has the added feature of keeping the lifter in the bore in the event of a bent push rod, making sure your oil pressure doesn't go to zero instantly. Should fit a Magnum motor also?? I think it was made by Milodon, maybe Morosso, probably got it from Summit

EDIT here. valley tray

Looks like the Magnum roller lifters may kill this deal for you. You might be able to trim this to work with the Magnum rollers, but that may loose the ability to keep the lifter in the bore. Mag rollers have a bracket to keep the lifters from spinning, does that keep the lifter in the bore also?

Posted By: HotRodDave

Re: Future 5.9 engine build for 3/4 ton ram - 03/07/15 08:45 PM

I don't see how a mag lifter will ever leave the bore with the dog bone set up. Or on a 4-5000 redline engine.

Posted By: JDMopar

Re: Future 5.9 engine build for 3/4 ton ram - 03/08/15 04:53 AM

You'll be better off using Speed Pro H405P's in a 360 truck motor, instead of KB107's. The KB's will make too much compression for a truck motor. I built a 360 torque motor for my old D350, and used KB107's the first go around.It rattled, and I didn't hear it because of the Flowbastards....and blew it up. Burnt holes in the top of the 3rd piston back on each bank. Replaced them with H405P's and never had another problem....and no difference in power or torque. If you're hell bent on the KB107's, I've got 6 .030 pistons I'll make a real deal on!

Good luck.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/slp-h405cp

Posted By: Murfman1967

Re: Future 5.9 engine build for 3/4 ton ram - 03/08/15 06:40 AM

Why not use the KB416 pistons for 417$

Notes

Centered pin. Can be used with Magnum rod, small end narrowed to 1". Made with Chrysler 360 block. Used with closed chamber heads, no quench dome.

Posted By: HotRodDave

Re: Future 5.9 engine build for 3/4 ton ram - 03/08/15 10:08 PM

The kb416 is for strokers, he said no stroker.

I am back to thinking I will do my 360 with the KB107 as my nv3500 probably will not last long behind a stroker 392, my mpg will suffer and I will be afraid to use the extra TQ. Decisions decisions...

Posted By: HotRodDave

Re: Future 5.9 engine build for 3/4 ton ram - 03/08/15 10:11 PM

The 405p is a stock replacement for the la 360 and will give him less compression than he already has as well as no hope of getting quench.

Posted By: kenworth_goose

Re: Future 5.9 engine build for 3/4 ton ram - 03/08/15 11:59 PM

I think I'll do the 107's, 318 camshaft, adjustable rockers, windage tray, Shave a new set of heads .020, Go with the blue ford injectors, a set of hedders and 3" pipes all the way out the back. Trans will get a rebuild with red or blue clutches, a billet convertor, a shift kit.Going to also rebuild the transfer case while I'm at it.

Posted By: HotRodDave

Re: Future 5.9 engine build for 3/4 ton ram - 03/09/15 02:22 AM

With zero deck 7cc pistons.039 fel pros typical magnum heads are 65 cc you will be at 10.3 compression and a short duration cam you will probably be running premium. I did almost exactly that but a 318 and it was 9.9 and would just barely ping at low elevation hot days heavy loads. It took a lot of factors but I could get it to ping occasionally. All that to say I would not mill the heads. If you get EQs they tend to be about 1 or 2 CC smaller already so you will be pushing it.

I will have the 392 in my R/T running very soon, it is 10.2 with the stock R/T cam, long tube headers, air gap, CAI, orange 5.4 ferd infectors, lightly ported magnum heads and see how it runs on pump gas

It is just in there temporary till I get the 410 ready to drop in.

Posted By: kenworth_goose

Re: Future 5.9 engine build for 3/4 ton ram - 03/09/15 04:25 AM

I run nothing but premium now because of the superchips. I know what it will be like with some more compression and I can't wait. I will run a quiet exhaust so I can hear what's going on under the hood.

Future 5.9 engine build for 3/4 ton ram