Moparts
Jeep for Off-Roading and Other Uses...
Posted By: MuuMuu101
Jeep for Off-Roading and Other Uses... - 02/22/15 03:02 AM
So, in the future I was thinking about getting a Jeep of some sort to go off-roading and serve as a potential back-up vehicle (so off-roading won't be its primary function). I guess it's to rekindle the fun I had back in my Baja days. From what I've heard, there are a lot of cool places around the SoCal area and I have some friends who go often. Anyways, I'm going to need another hobby after I graduate. So, these are the vehicles I had in mind and I was wondering if I could get your thoughts on them: 2000-2006 Jeep Wrangler, Jeep Cherokee (XJ), 1993-1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee (ZJ). All models I'd get would have to have 4x4 capabilities.
So here are my thoughts on the 3...
The Jeep Wrangler is widely known as the car for off-roading, it has a removeable top so I could drive a "convertible" during the summer time when I'm not driving my daily or the Dart, and there's a huge aftermarket for them. The cons I don't like about it is that there isn't much room to put people and supplies, it's probably not the most comfortable on the street, and they're expensive (high cost of entry relative to the other two for a 4.0L).
The Cherokee also seems quite popular for off-roading. It is a little cheaper to get into than the Wrangler. It can seat up to 4 people (I don't know how comfortably). It still has a large aftermarket support. I can throw things in the trunk. And it has a towing capacity of about 5000 lbs (helpful if I buy a trailer so I can tow parts or possibly a car). I think this could be a good compromise between the Wrangler and Grand Cherokee.
I'm also quite liking the Jeep Grand Cherokee. Looking on CL, it seems like it's the cheapest between the 3 options. It doesn't seem like there's as much aftermarket parts for it but it definitely seems like it could be a good platform for off-roading. It also comes with a 5.2L small block (or a 5.9L but very rare and only a 1998) that gets at least 30-40 more hp and 75 ft-lbs of torque over the 4.0L. Gas mileage is about the same as the 4.0L too. Again, this can store things in the trunk and it can tow up to 6500 lbs (definitely a safe load to tow a car or parts). The only thing about this is I believe they switched from a 46RH trans to a 44RE transmission in 1995. If I did my research correctly, that would imply the the 44RE is a weaker trans but uses electronics instead of hydraulics for shifting? A 46RE came behind the '98 Limited 5.9L though.
So, what are your thoughts or opinions? Personally, all of my daily drivers have been a car (as I drive around a lot) but I always enjoyed driving my mom's SUV (both on the streets or on the very few times I took it to the dessert).
Posted By: Cooter
Re: Jeep for Off-Roading and Other Uses... - 02/22/15 05:15 AM
The ZJ will ride the best and be the most comfortable, the XJ will only tow 2K lb unless you have the auxiliary trans cooler along with the heavy duty cooling package on the 4.0, and the TJ will be the best for all around 4 wheeling where you need clearance. The ZJ will climb the best.
They all have shortcomings. I would likely pick a ZJ in your position if I was out west, and didn't wheel rocks.
But I do wheel rocks, and our trails are tight.
Posted By: MuuMuu101
Re: Jeep for Off-Roading and Other Uses... - 02/22/15 05:24 AM
Quote:
The ZJ will ride the best and be the most comfortable, the XJ will only tow 2K lb unless you have the auxiliary trans cooler along with the heavy duty cooling package on the 4.0, and the TJ will be the best for all around 4 wheeling where you need clearance. The ZJ will climb the best.
They all have shortcomings. I would likely pick a ZJ in your position if I was out west, and didn't wheel rocks.
But I do wheel rocks, and our trails are tight.
That's more towards what I was leaning too. I'd definitely like a more comfortable ride and the ZJ seems to have more "luxurious" features to it on the interior when compared to the other two. I've been reading a bit on the Jeep forums as well.
Posted By: RODHALL
Re: Jeep for Off-Roading and Other Uses... - 02/22/15 06:26 AM
XJ or ZJ..... will be around the same price, both seat 4 about same. 4.0L are not hard to find, Parts are easy to find.
Posted By: MuuMuu101
Re: Jeep for Off-Roading and Other Uses... - 02/22/15 06:35 AM
Quote:
XJ or ZJ..... will be around the same price, both seat 4 about same. 4.0L are not hard to find, Parts are easy to find.
So what are the pros and cons between the 4.0L and a small block? I've heard with the XJ's that the 4.0L has sufficient torque; however, you'd be better off utilizing that torque by bumping up your gear ratio. So is the torque of a small block excess or does it allow you to do other things?
Posted By: Cooter
Re: Jeep for Off-Roading and Other Uses... - 02/22/15 06:52 AM
If you are going to tow at all, do yourself a favor and get the 5.2 Magnum.
Posted By: MuuMuu101
Re: Jeep for Off-Roading and Other Uses... - 02/22/15 07:04 AM
Quote:
If you are going to tow at all, do yourself a favor and get the 5.2 Magnum.
Alright, ZJ it is. Lol. 
Posted By: Cooter
Re: Jeep for Off-Roading and Other Uses... - 02/22/15 03:13 PM
I hope I don't sound too harsh. The 5.2 ZJ will tow very well, and drive the nicest as a second vehicle. If you are doing harder core stuff, it will be a bit more difficult to modify, however. Winches are dead simple on the TJ, and XYs have a better front bumper; I usually zip tied the bumper cover onto my ZJ.
No matter what, make sure you have a good set of tow hooks on the front, and a 2" receiver hitch makes a good recovery point in the rear with addition of a shackle mount.
Posted By: MuuMuu101
Re: Jeep for Off-Roading and Other Uses... - 02/22/15 06:15 PM
Quote:
I hope I don't sound too harsh. The 5.2 ZJ will tow very well, and drive the nicest as a second vehicle. If you are doing harder core stuff, it will be a bit more difficult to modify, however. Winches are dead simple on the TJ, and XYs have a better front bumper; I usually zip tied the bumper cover onto my ZJ.
No matter what, make sure you have a good set of tow hooks on the front, and a 2" receiver hitch makes a good recovery point in the rear with addition of a shackle mount.
No, don't worry about it. you're being quite helpful. 
Posted By: QuickDodge
Re: Jeep for Off-Roading and Other Uses... - 02/22/15 06:20 PM
If I were going to tow another vehicle, I'd seriously consider a Durango with a 5.2 or 5.9 engine. The XJ and the ZJ are unibody vehicles. The Durango has a separate frame to which a strong hitch can be securely mounted.
An XJ or ZJ may have been strong enough to deserve their tow ratings when new. But when considering a 15+ year old vehicle, corrosion could weaken the inside of the unibody "frame" effectively reducing the real world towing limits of the vehicle. The problem is that such internal corrosion can sometimes be difficult to detect.
Edit: Whatever vehicle you purchase, read up on towing with that vehicle. SUV's usually have towing packages available. I would purchase one that had the factory heavy duty towing package.
Posted By: MuuMuu101
Re: Jeep for Off-Roading and Other Uses... - 02/22/15 07:09 PM
Quote:
If I were going to tow another vehicle, I'd seriously consider a Durango with a 5.2 or 5.9 engine. The XJ and the ZJ are unibody vehicles. The Durango has a separate frame to which a strong hitch can be securely mounted.
An XJ or ZJ may have been strong enough to deserve their tow ratings when new. But when considering a 15+ year old vehicle, corrosion could weaken the inside of the unibody "frame" effectively reducing the real world towing limits of the vehicle. The problem is that such internal corrosion can sometimes be difficult to detect.
Edit: Whatever vehicle you purchase, read up on towing with that vehicle. SUV's usually have towing packages available. I would purchase one that had the factory heavy duty towing package.
This is great, the Durango hasn't even crossed my mind. Although the aftermarket on a Durango seems quite small.
Posted By: Cooter
Re: Jeep for Off-Roading and Other Uses... - 02/22/15 08:33 PM
The Durango is a great rig, especially for towing and carrying capacity but pretty useless off road in unmodified form. And modifying it isnot for the faint of heart...
Posted By: MuuMuu101
Re: Jeep for Off-Roading and Other Uses... - 02/22/15 11:52 PM
Quote:
The Durango is a great rig, especially for towing and carrying capacity but pretty useless off road in unmodified form. And modifying it isnot for the faint of heart...
Yeah, that's what I noticed. The 4x4's have hardly any ground clearance and the only lift kits they offer are body lifts (which I heard is a pain in the butt to install). Not that I'd lift a ZJ or Durango that much. I wouldn't want more than 3".
Posted By: d-150
Re: Jeep for Off-Roading and Other Uses... - 02/23/15 12:02 AM
zj mostly on road zj, 50 50 mix xj,mostly off road tj.i have a cj yj and xj like them but different uses
Posted By: MuuMuu101
Re: Jeep for Off-Roading and Other Uses... - 02/23/15 06:38 AM
Quote:
zj mostly on road zj, 50 50 mix xj,mostly off road tj.i have a cj yj and xj like them but different uses
Well, I figure I'd use it mostly on the road and may go off-roading once or twice a month. So a ZJ may be the best option.
I also looked into different ways for lifting a Durango to gain a touch more ground clearance. There doesn't seem to be a good way of doing it. As mentioned before, there are body lifts but those really don't do much to help the suspension out. They just allow for larger tires. There aren't really any suspension kits out there either. The only thing I've seen that may work for about a 2" lift (which seems fine) is cranking the torsion bars (getting an alignment) and adding another leaf or replacing the shackles on the leaf springs.
Posted By: Cooter
Re: Jeep for Off-Roading and Other Uses... - 02/24/15 04:05 AM
The 10" of extra wheelbase of the Durango over the Grand Cherokee will give you a much worse breakover angle than any of the Jeeps, even with 2" of "lift" from cranked up torsion bars (and the Durango already starts with 1/2" less ground clearance to start with, compared to the ZJ) Plus, you will end up trading off reliability in the form of stressed CVs, due to the angle you will be putting them at.
If you are just going to run dirt roads and maybe the sand at Glamis or Dumont, I could see the Durango, but if you are doing trails that require a lift, stay away from the Durango for your first off road 4x4.
Posted By: MuuMuu101
Re: Jeep for Off-Roading and Other Uses... - 02/24/15 04:30 AM
Quote:
The 10" of extra wheelbase of the Durango over the Grand Cherokee will give you a much worse breakover angle than any of the Jeeps, even with 2" of "lift" from cranked up torsion bars (and the Durango already starts with 1/2" less ground clearance to start with, compared to the ZJ) Plus, you will end up trading off reliability in the form of stressed CVs, due to the angle you will be putting them at.
If you are just going to run dirt roads and maybe the sand at Glamis or Dumont, I could see the Durango, but if you are doing trails that require a lift, stay away from the Durango for your first off road 4x4.
The added stresses is the reason why I said, "There doesn't seem like a good way of doing it." My friends tend to take weekend trips going through trails, and I don't think the Durango will fair too well. I've been leaning more towards the ZJ lately.
Based off of the Cheap Truck Challenge, it definitely seems like it can be a fun and reliable vehicle.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjjzQHN5ra8
Posted By: Cooter
Re: Jeep for Off-Roading and Other Uses... - 02/24/15 05:05 AM
They are. I had $900 into this and added a $250 set of Swampers to it. Daily drove it, as well.
Posted By: MuuMuu101
Re: Jeep for Off-Roading and Other Uses... - 02/24/15 05:12 AM
Yeah, there are a lot of 5.2L's with about 100-130k miles for less than $4-5k. Ironically, there are about 3 Limited 5.9L's all under $6k with the same amount of mileage. I find that a little odd since they only made about 4500 of them.
Posted By: Defbob
Re: Jeep for Off-Roading and Other Uses... - 02/24/15 01:21 PM
Avoid 96 and later V8 ZJs, they have oddball rear axles. If you get a v8 one, make sure it is '93-95.
TJ's are better, LJ is the best in my opinion.
Posted By: feets
Re: Jeep for Off-Roading and Other Uses... - 02/24/15 08:25 PM
You can always make a left turn and go with a Ramcharger.
Posted By: MuuMuu101
Re: Jeep for Off-Roading and Other Uses... - 02/25/15 02:59 AM
Quote:
Avoid 96 and later V8 ZJs, they have oddball rear axles. If you get a v8 one, make sure it is '93-95.
TJ's are better, LJ is the best in my opinion.
What are the differences in rear axles prior and post '96?
And the LJ is just a longer wheel based TJ, correct? They were offered between '04-06?
Posted By: MuuMuu101
Re: Jeep for Off-Roading and Other Uses... - 02/25/15 02:59 AM
Quote:
You can always make a left turn and go with a Ramcharger.
I'm open for suggestions. I guess that would include some W series of that same era as well. Diesel? Although, if it's gas, I'd like to keep it fuel injected so it would have to be newer than the mid-80's. 
Posted By: Ruppman
Re: Jeep for Off-Roading and Other Uses... - 02/25/15 03:16 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Avoid 96 and later V8 ZJs, they have oddball rear axles. If you get a v8 one, make sure it is '93-95.
TJ's are better, LJ is the best in my opinion.
What are the differences in rear axles prior and post '96?
And the LJ is just a longer wheel based TJ, correct? They were offered between '04-06?
yes, correct
Posted By: Cooter
Re: Jeep for Off-Roading and Other Uses... - 02/25/15 04:42 AM
There is no way he will find an LJ anywhere near the price of a comparable ZJ, XJ or even TJ. And while I would go to a TeeJ or build another LJ in a heartbeat, OP's intended use sure doesn't look like a Wrangler type of situation. Heck, I DDed my M715 on Boggers into 20" miles into downtown Chicago every day, so what do I know?
The 5.9s have dropped in price like crazy. Rare ≠ Desirable. Most that were in the market for a 'Niner to build have moved on to SRT 8 Grands. If another sub $2K Niner comes up when I have the disposable cash, and a spot in the stable, I will buy it.
Posted By: MuuMuu101
Re: Jeep for Off-Roading and Other Uses... - 02/25/15 04:55 AM
Quote:
There is no way he will find an LJ anywhere near the price of a comparable ZJ, XJ or even TJ. And while I would go to a TeeJ or build another LJ in a heartbeat, OP's intended use sure doesn't look like a Wrangler type of situation. Heck, I DDed my M715 on Boggers into 20" miles into downtown Chicago every day, so what do I know?
The 5.9s have dropped in price like crazy. Rare ≠ Desirable. Most that were in the market for a 'Niner to build have moved on to SRT 8 Grands. If another sub $2K Niner comes up when I have the disposable cash, and a spot in the stable, I will buy it.
I was looking at the LJ's on CL and they're pricey. At least $10k and all of them were automatics.
Here are the one's that are local. Note that the 4500 I mentioned earlier were specific CA Emissions one...
http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/cto/4901108635.html
http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/cto/4871970526.html
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/cto/4903521699.html (this one doesn't specify it but it has the 5.9L hood)
http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/cto/4888285498.html
I think I'm still leaning towards the ZJ, but am looking into the Ramcharger. It seems like they have a better towing capacity and aftermarket than the Durango.
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo
Re: Jeep for Off-Roading and Other Uses... - 02/27/15 03:20 AM
I have a YJ and love driving it. Don't get one of the carbed models, stick to the EFI ones. It's great in summer, fold the top down, summer cruising. If I lived in your climate it would be a no brainer. I tow a small trailer with mine sometimes but I wouldn't want to put much behind it because of the small wheelbase. But you are correct it's not good for hauling one passenger often and there's no storage space unless I fold the seat down to take it out. And with the soft top there is no keeping things locked. I don't bother to lock the doors when they can unzip a window to get in and find the nothing I keep in there.
Posted By: Defbob
Re: Jeep for Off-Roading and Other Uses... - 02/27/15 04:14 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Avoid 96 and later V8 ZJs, they have oddball rear axles. If you get a v8 one, make sure it is '93-95.
TJ's are better, LJ is the best in my opinion.
What are the differences in rear axles prior and post '96?
And the LJ is just a longer wheel based TJ, correct? They were offered between '04-06?
The later axles were an aluminum "Dana 44" that nothing interchanges with and has almost nonexistent aftermarket support.
Posted By: MuuMuu101
Re: Jeep for Off-Roading and Other Uses... - 02/27/15 05:04 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Avoid 96 and later V8 ZJs, they have oddball rear axles. If you get a v8 one, make sure it is '93-95.
TJ's are better, LJ is the best in my opinion.
What are the differences in rear axles prior and post '96?
And the LJ is just a longer wheel based TJ, correct? They were offered between '04-06?
The later axles were an aluminum "Dana 44" that nothing interchanges with and has almost nonexistent aftermarket support.
Good to know...
Posted By: Cooter
Re: Jeep for Off-Roading and Other Uses... - 02/27/15 03:07 PM
There really isn't anything wrong with the Al D44. It's much stronger than the D35, and it's not like you are going to waste any money on aftermarket parts for a D35. You can get lockers for the AL D44, and I really don't know what other aftermarket support you would be looking for.
Posted By: MuuMuu101
Re: Jeep for Off-Roading and Other Uses... - 02/28/15 07:36 PM
Quote:
There really isn't anything wrong with the Al D44. It's much stronger than the D35, and it's not like you are going to waste any money on aftermarket parts for a D35. You can get lockers for the AL D44, and I really don't know what other aftermarket support you would be looking for.
Also a good point. I don't see why I'd need anything more than that.
Posted By: QuickDodge
Re: Jeep for Off-Roading and Other Uses... - 03/03/15 05:04 AM
I compared the 1993 Ramcharger and the 1993 Grand Cherokee on the fueleconomy.gov website. For the search criteria, both had the 318 and automatic transmission. The Jeep is rated 1 mpg higher than the ramcharger in town and 2 mpg higher on the highway.
I like the Ramcharger better than the Grand Cherokee. Personal opinion mostly based on the appearance. I think the Ramcharger may be a little wider than the Grand Cherokee. Elbow room is good! The Ramcharger has a separate frame. The Grand Cherokee, especially the limited models, have more luxury features, such as leather seats, etc.
Posted By: MuuMuu101
Re: Jeep for Off-Roading and Other Uses... - 03/03/15 05:29 AM
Quote:
I compared the 1993 Ramcharger and the 1993 Grand Cherokee on the fueleconomy.gov website. For the search criteria, both had the 318 and automatic transmission. The Jeep is rated 1 mpg higher than the ramcharger in town and 2 mpg higher on the highway.
I like the Ramcharger better than the Grand Cherokee. Personal opinion mostly based on the appearance. I think the Ramcharger may be a little wider than the Grand Cherokee. Elbow room is good! The Ramcharger has a separate frame. The Grand Cherokee, especially the limited models, have more luxury features, such as leather seats, etc.
The mpg is negligible to me. What's 1-2 mpg going to make a difference? I like both, as there's pros and cons to both. Probably the Grand Cherokee a little more. The Ramchargers definitely seem more scarce.
Posted By: QuickDodge
Re: Jeep for Off-Roading and Other Uses... - 03/03/15 06:58 PM
Ramchargers are much less common for sure! The 1970's topless models are my favorite!
I wouldn't let a small difference in gas mileage factor to heavily into the decision either. One thing I meant to mention in the previous post is that the Ramchargers with the 3 speed transmissions used more fuel than the models with overdrive. Comparing a Ramcharger with a 3 speed transmission and a Grand Cherokee would probably be a 4 mpg or so difference on the highway. (It would vary, depending on the year of the RC, the gear ratio, etc.)
On the highway, the older Ramchargers with the 3 speed automatics will have the engine turning at higher RPM's. The Grand Cherokee, which can standard with the overdrive transmission, would definitely be the more comfortable highway cruiser. If you desire to do so, the 4 speed automatic (the 518 transmission) can be swapped into the older RC's fairly easily from what I've read.
Posted By: Cheeto
Re: Jeep for Off-Roading and Other Uses... - 03/10/15 09:35 AM
Quote:
So, in the future I was thinking about getting a Jeep of some sort to go off-roading and serve as a potential back-up vehicle (so off-roading won't be its primary function).
This seems contradictory to me. If it's to be a back-up to your daily driver then I see no reason why off-roading can't be it's primary function. It doesn't have to be a tube-chassis rock buggy, a well-built trail runner can have decent enough road manners for the occasional trip to the Piggly-Wiggly too.
As for your choices, I'd aim for the ZJ. There's probably been a million made, they're usually less expensive than the other 2 mentioned, have nearly the same level of aftermarket support (if you shop around) and they blow the others away when it comes to creature comforts. Don't be afraid to look into the WJs either ('99-'04). They still have solid axles but I believe the unibody structure is like 25% stiffer than the ZJ they replaced and the 4.7 gets better mileage than the 5.2 did. After 5 ZJs I've stepped up to a WJ daily driver and am looking for another as a trail rig. Regardless of what you end up with...happy wheelin'! 
Posted By: MuuMuu101
Re: Jeep for Off-Roading and Other Uses... - 03/12/15 04:36 AM
Quote:
Quote:
So, in the future I was thinking about getting a Jeep of some sort to go off-roading and serve as a potential back-up vehicle (so off-roading won't be its primary function).
This seems contradictory to me. If it's to be a back-up to your daily driver then I see no reason why off-roading can't be it's primary function. It doesn't have to be a tube-chassis rock buggy, a well-built trail runner can have decent enough road manners for the occasional trip to the Piggly-Wiggly too.
As for your choices, I'd aim for the ZJ. There's probably been a million made, they're usually less expensive than the other 2 mentioned, have nearly the same level of aftermarket support (if you shop around) and they blow the others away when it comes to creature comforts... Regardless of what you end up with...happy wheelin'!
I just didn't want it to be a huge money pit and was worried about towing capabilities the more it's built for off-roading.
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo
Re: Jeep for Off-Roading and Other Uses... - 03/12/15 04:22 PM
If you've decided you don't want a Wrangler, get a cherokee, not a grand. Doesn't really matter the year. The 4.0 is a rock solid engine and they can be had with a 5 speed stick if you search for them. Much more capable off roaders than the grand and they can still tow a reasonable trailer. Aftermarket support for the cherokee is pretty good and they still look good with a bit of a lift and some decent tires. The grand cherokee always looks like a minivan wannabe no matter what you do to it.
Posted By: MuuMuu101
Re: Jeep for Off-Roading and Other Uses... - 03/17/15 02:53 AM
Quick question, this may be dumb and I should know the answer, but what's the difference between AWD and 4WD? I was talking to a friend who is very much into Jeeps and hangs out with that crowd (one of the reasons I want to get an off-roading vehicle in the first places) and he said the V8 Grand Cherokees all had an AWD transfer case and they really don't do too well off-roading as a 4.0L Cherokee with 4WD (which he advised I should look into more). He also said I shouldn't have a problem with towing the Dart as people tow they're Wrangler's out to the desert with their Cherokees and GC's.
Posted By: blown340
Re: Jeep for Off-Roading and Other Uses... - 03/17/15 06:55 AM
Quote:
Quick question, this may be dumb and I should know the answer, but what's the difference between AWD and 4WD? I was talking to a friend who is very much into Jeeps and hangs out with that crowd (one of the reasons I want to get an off-roading vehicle in the first places) and he said the V8 Grand Cherokees all had an AWD transfer case and they really don't do too well off-roading as a 4.0L Cherokee with 4WD (which he advised I should look into more). He also said I shouldn't have a problem with towing the Dart as people tow they're Wrangler's out to the desert with their Cherokees and GC's.
AWD always drives all 4 wheels. 4wd is generally selectable for 2wd vs. 4wd. AWD frequently is for foul weather capability but not really off road. This is not always the case though as there are cars like the jeep grand cherokee that are AWD but are legitimately off road capabile with low range.
Also, not all Grand Cherokee's were AWD only. My 2002 WJ had the NV242 transfer case that offered 2wd, AWD, Locked 4hi and locked 4 lo. Although others above have suggested the XJ cherokee is a better platform than the ZJ and WJ grand cherokee I strongly disagree with that arguement.
-Jon
Posted By: MuuMuu101
Re: Jeep for Off-Roading and Other Uses... - 03/17/15 07:27 PM
My friend also told me that the trails that he usually goes to are generally more narrow, so looking into a ramcharger or something similar may not be ideal.
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo
Re: Jeep for Off-Roading and Other Uses... - 03/17/15 09:28 PM
There is a difference. I can take my wrangler down quad trails and go places my buddy in his half ton could never go. Depends all on what your intended use is.