Posted By: demon
Engine swaps for 72-80 trucks- max mileage *DELETED* - 12/10/14 04:47 PM
Post deleted by demon
Engine swaps for 72-80 trucks- max mileage *DELETED*
Posted By: CTD5.9
Re: Engine swaps for 72-80 trucks- max mileage - 12/10/14 05:22 PM
probably a stock gen 3 hemi or a 4BT cummins is your best bet for economy
Posted By: dynotune440
Re: Engine swaps for 72-80 trucks- max mileage - 12/10/14 05:33 PM
What kind of mileage are you looking for?
Posted By: RUNCHARGER
Re: Engine swaps for 72-80 trucks- max mileage - 12/10/14 05:38 PM
My stock 92 318 magnum was a standout. Plenty of power and 25MPG Imperial. The Magnum swap is very easy to do as well. I think a turboed V6 Magnum would be even better.
Sheldon
Sheldon
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo
Re: Engine swaps for 72-80 trucks- max mileage - 12/10/14 05:43 PM
A 318 magnum swap is probably the best bang for your buck. Reasonably low mileage 318 magnums can be found. But whether or not you keep the fuel injection, one thing you can really do to get the efficiency up is to take the engine apart and have the block decked to get the pistons up to zero deck, then run a .040 head gasket. Stock the pistons are just a little too far down in the hole and the head gaskets I think are a little too thick. Doing this will get the compression up a bit and set it up for quench. IMO worth it for the real wold efficiency and power gains.
Posted By: dogdays
Re: Engine swaps for 72-80 trucks- max mileage - 12/10/14 05:58 PM
Or swap out the pistons for KB 167s. Using the MP thin gaskets you get the same results and take 90 grams off the piston.
I don't know about the rest of you, but I have found that milling heads and decking blocks is expensive compared to what one would think it cost. Maybe not a truing cut of a few thousandths, but when one starts taking off 0.040" or so the price soars.
R.
I don't know about the rest of you, but I have found that milling heads and decking blocks is expensive compared to what one would think it cost. Maybe not a truing cut of a few thousandths, but when one starts taking off 0.040" or so the price soars.
R.
Posted By: shanker
Re: Engine swaps for 72-80 trucks- max mileage - 12/10/14 06:06 PM
depending on your budget..
if it was enough to cover a diesel swap, Id got 4BT in a HEARTBEAT!
otherwise, a big block (383/400/400) built conservatively with good low end torque and 3.21 to 2.76 gears would be OK enough to get you into the high teen's..
There was a guy either here or on RCC, that had a 4BT in a 74-75 Ramcharger and claimed to get 30MPG Highway/25MPG City.
if it was enough to cover a diesel swap, Id got 4BT in a HEARTBEAT!
otherwise, a big block (383/400/400) built conservatively with good low end torque and 3.21 to 2.76 gears would be OK enough to get you into the high teen's..
There was a guy either here or on RCC, that had a 4BT in a 74-75 Ramcharger and claimed to get 30MPG Highway/25MPG City.
Posted By: Guitar Jones
Re: Engine swaps for 72-80 trucks- max mileage - 12/10/14 07:49 PM
4BT all the way.
Posted By: poorboy
Re: Engine swaps for 72-80 trucks- max mileage - 12/10/14 08:05 PM
Assuming the motor is in good condition, one might think more MPG can be had through driver input, and vehicle usage then through mechanical modification. Then more MPG would likely come from transmission (OD) and axle gearing then through motor changes, and that gearing change has to be towards the most often truck usage. Changing gearing and motor functions for highway mileage is pretty useless if the truck spends its time in the city, and if that driving time is mostly done on short trips when the motor seldom reaches operating temperature, nothing much is going to help.
These mileage threads always turn into a pizzing match.
Gene
These mileage threads always turn into a pizzing match.
Gene
Posted By: CTD5.9
Re: Engine swaps for 72-80 trucks- max mileage - 12/10/14 08:34 PM
Another starting point for a mid 70's ramcharger would probably be a transmission/transfer case swap. A 518 and part time 4wd will probably get you a few MPG
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo
Re: Engine swaps for 72-80 trucks- max mileage - 12/10/14 08:40 PM
Quote:
Another starting point for a mid 70's ramcharger would probably be a transmission/transfer case swap. A 518 and part time 4wd will probably get you a few MPG
If the OP could snag a complete 92-95 ram or dakota that would be ideal. I would swap over the engine, trans, efi and diffs. I would not want a 70's full time 4wd for any kind of mpg.
Posted By: CTD5.9
Re: Engine swaps for 72-80 trucks- max mileage - 12/10/14 10:10 PM
Quote:
If the OP could snag a complete 92-95 ram or dakota that would be ideal. I would swap over the engine, trans, efi and diffs. I would not want a 70's full time 4wd for any kind of mpg.
A 92-93 would work, 94+ would be a ton of work.
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo
Re: Engine swaps for 72-80 trucks- max mileage - 12/10/14 10:26 PM
Quote:Quote:
If the OP could snag a complete 92-95 ram or dakota that would be ideal. I would swap over the engine, trans, efi and diffs. I would not want a 70's full time 4wd for any kind of mpg.
A 92-93 would work, 94+ would be a ton of work.
As long as it's 95 and earlier it's doable. Once you hit 96 and the OBD-2, the wiring and ecu issues become a nightmare. The OBD-1 engine harnesses can be dissected realitively easily. And once you're done you will find the engine harness is remarkably self contained. I think I only had to connect two or three wires to the carbed engine harness to get the engine to run.
Posted By: CTD5.9
Re: Engine swaps for 72-80 trucks- max mileage - 12/10/14 10:35 PM
Sorry you are correct on the engine, I was thinking more along the lines of the transfer case + differentials. They switched to the coil over front and the drivers side drop in 94 which would make swapping them in a ton of work. I think an old transfer case would bolt up to the transmission though.
Posted By: demon
Re: Engine swaps for 72-80 trucks- max mileage - 12/11/14 04:00 PM
Another possibly I considered is a Jeep 4.0 liter 6.
The biggest difficulty in any swap is the transfer case. Anyone know Jeep transfer cases?
The biggest difficulty in any swap is the transfer case. Anyone know Jeep transfer cases?
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo
Re: Engine swaps for 72-80 trucks- max mileage - 12/11/14 04:56 PM
Quote:
Another possibly I considered is a Jeep 4.0 liter 6.
The biggest difficulty in any swap is the transfer case. Anyone know Jeep transfer cases?
Yeah they put the front driveshaft on the driver's side of the trans. I found this one out when I swapped a 318 magnum into my Jeep. Put the front driveshaft right where the 5.2 starter wanted to be!
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo
Re: Engine swaps for 72-80 trucks- max mileage - 12/11/14 04:57 PM
Quote:
Sorry you are correct on the engine, I was thinking more along the lines of the transfer case + differentials. They switched to the coil over front and the drivers side drop in 94 which would make swapping them in a ton of work. I think an old transfer case would bolt up to the transmission though.
Ok I'm not as familiar with those. If a guy was to swap in the newer diffs with the the newer transfer case and trans how would that work?
Posted By: CTD5.9
Re: Engine swaps for 72-80 trucks- max mileage - 12/11/14 07:18 PM
Quote:
Ok I'm not as familiar with those. If a guy was to swap in the newer diffs with the the newer transfer case and trans how would that work?
trans and transfer case would be fine, The front diff would need major frame work since they did away with the leafs. You could however find an older ford Dana 44 or 60 and put it in to work with the new transfer case.
Posted By: 76dodgeboy
Re: Engine swaps for 72-80 trucks- max mileage - 12/12/14 05:44 PM
Not hard to Ad spring perches.
I dont think the 4.0 would do any better than a 318.
I think a Magnum 318/518 setup would be good. a 4bt would be Great too.
I dont think the 4.0 would do any better than a 318.
I think a Magnum 318/518 setup would be good. a 4bt would be Great too.
Posted By: blown340
Re: Engine swaps for 72-80 trucks- max mileage - 12/12/14 07:43 PM
Thinking outside the box, what about the mercedes OM606 turbodiesel? Great mileage and very tuneable. They can be retrofit with a mechanical injection pump from the (i think) OM603. Its a car based engine so it would have more flexibility in RPM range than a 4bt as well as being much lighter.
-Jon
-Jon
Posted By: QuickDodge
Re: Engine swaps for 72-80 trucks- max mileage - 12/14/14 02:50 AM
A two wheel drive will almost always use less fuel than a 4x4.
There are many small diesel engines which can be used. I'd suggest a small turbo diesel for best mileage & power. The 4bt has a great reputation, but these are popular engines and often a bit expensive to purchase. Most of the small cab over trucks have suitable diesel engines.
The OP did not state why mileage is important. If low operating cost is the motivation, they may want to consider switching a gasoline engine over to run on compressed natural gas if it is available in their area.
There are many small diesel engines which can be used. I'd suggest a small turbo diesel for best mileage & power. The 4bt has a great reputation, but these are popular engines and often a bit expensive to purchase. Most of the small cab over trucks have suitable diesel engines.
The OP did not state why mileage is important. If low operating cost is the motivation, they may want to consider switching a gasoline engine over to run on compressed natural gas if it is available in their area.
Posted By: ahy
Re: Engine swaps for 72-80 trucks- max mileage - 12/14/14 04:43 AM
Quote:
A 318 magnum swap is probably the best bang for your buck. Reasonably low mileage 318 magnums can be found. But whether or not you keep the fuel injection, one thing you can really do to get the efficiency up is to take the engine apart and have the block decked to get the pistons up to zero deck, then run a .040 head gasket. Stock the pistons are just a little too far down in the hole and the head gaskets I think are a little too thick. Doing this will get the compression up a bit and set it up for quench. IMO worth it for the real wold efficiency and power gains.
Sounds like a good approach to me...
Posted By: QuickDodge
Re: Engine swaps for 72-80 trucks- max mileage - 12/14/14 09:03 PM
If I recall correctly, back in the 1980's the 2 wheel drive, 1/2 ton, 318 powered trucks with the 833OD (4 speed overdrive) transmission and 2.94 gears would often get 18 to 20 mpg on the highway. If this is correct, this set-up would be a bolt in deal and very easy to hook everything up. It would probably be rather affordable also.
The newer 318 magnums with a 5 speed or 518 automatic would probably have similar fuel mileage, but would have more power. It is a bit more work to hook up the fuel injection though.
One other point to consider is how long will the investment in the drive train conversion would take to break even. For example, I would guess a Cummins 4bt conversion could easily cost several thousand dollars. Such a swap would save fuel, but with the higher cost of diesel fuel and the high cost of the conversion, I suspect it would take MANY, MANY miles to before that owner is actually saving any money.
I love my old truck and wanted to drive it everyday, but after calculating the costs, I decided to get a car for everyday use. Other people will be in different situations. For some, an economical truck is the best option. In my case, it was a want rather than a need, so I drive a car now.
It is not all bad though because I typically save about $200 per month in fuel!
The newer 318 magnums with a 5 speed or 518 automatic would probably have similar fuel mileage, but would have more power. It is a bit more work to hook up the fuel injection though.
One other point to consider is how long will the investment in the drive train conversion would take to break even. For example, I would guess a Cummins 4bt conversion could easily cost several thousand dollars. Such a swap would save fuel, but with the higher cost of diesel fuel and the high cost of the conversion, I suspect it would take MANY, MANY miles to before that owner is actually saving any money.
I love my old truck and wanted to drive it everyday, but after calculating the costs, I decided to get a car for everyday use. Other people will be in different situations. For some, an economical truck is the best option. In my case, it was a want rather than a need, so I drive a car now.
It is not all bad though because I typically save about $200 per month in fuel!
Posted By: dweller
Re: Engine swaps for 72-80 trucks- max mileage - 12/15/14 05:53 AM
Don't forget that the 4BT does not have a balance shaft and does vibrate a lot. It will shake the whole truck.
Posted By: demon
Re: Engine swaps for 72-80 trucks- max mileage - 12/15/14 06:54 AM
What about the 4.7 v8? They seem to be overlooked. I have heard that the 5.2 Dakotas had better power and mileage than he 4.7's though.
If I could find a good, cheap 92-93 Ramcharger, I would just swap a 74-80 body on and that would be the simplest
If I could find a good, cheap 92-93 Ramcharger, I would just swap a 74-80 body on and that would be the simplest
Posted By: 69HemiGTX
Re: Engine swaps for 72-80 trucks- max mileage - 12/15/14 10:35 AM
That's easier said than done. The RC has a 106" wheelbase, whereas a regular cab shortbed truck is 115." Their frames are different. You'd be better off swapping the drivetrain.
Posted By: demon
Re: Engine swaps for 72-80 trucks- max mileage - 12/15/14 09:44 PM
Quote:
That's easier said than done. The RC has a 106" wheelbase, whereas a regular cab shortbed truck is 115." Their frames are different. You'd be better off swapping the drivetrain.
My plan is to swap an older Ramcharger body onto a newer Ramcharger frame to gain fuel injection, part time, overdrive etc
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo
Re: Engine swaps for 72-80 trucks- max mileage - 12/16/14 01:04 AM
What's wrong with the newer ramcharger body?
Posted By: poorboy
Re: Engine swaps for 72-80 trucks- max mileage - 12/16/14 03:08 AM
What's the wheel base on the Durangos? 
Posted By: 69HemiGTX
Re: Engine swaps for 72-80 trucks- max mileage - 12/16/14 03:10 AM
Gotcha. I was thinking RC to truck. As far as the old vs. new bodies, that's a personal preference. I much prefer the old stuff to the new.
Posted By: RUNCHARGER
Re: Engine swaps for 72-80 trucks- max mileage - 12/16/14 04:29 AM
I agree the 72-80 style is awesome, kind of a 71 Road Runner truck if you will. The 81 and newer are okay but just not cool enough.
Even a 93 318 or 360 Maggy truck 4X4 would make for a terrific donor, those Late Ramchargers are hard to find.
Sheldon
Even a 93 318 or 360 Maggy truck 4X4 would make for a terrific donor, those Late Ramchargers are hard to find.
Sheldon
Posted By: demon
Re: Engine swaps for 72-80 trucks- max mileage - 12/16/14 05:45 AM
Exactly Sheldon. If you see any out your way, let me know. I'm looking around here for a good earl Ramcharger and /or a 92-93 truck or Ramcharger to use as a donor.
Posted By: RUNCHARGER
Re: Engine swaps for 72-80 trucks- max mileage - 12/16/14 06:39 AM
I'll let Dean know as well if you haven't already.
Sheldon
Sheldon
Posted By: bigblock340power
Re: Engine swaps for 72-80 trucks- max mileage - 12/16/14 05:09 PM
I was kicking around the idea of snagging a rollover (some where in the 2000-2010 range for the Hemi/trans setup). Pulling the body off, and bolting mine on. I know, I put this way to simply, I'm sure theirs a bunch of things I'd need to do to get it to work. But wouldn't it be nice to have a newer Hemi setup under a '70s truck body?! Just what would be involved in this? Also, Calif. smog laws would be all over me. But my '76 has to be smogged anyway, and I'd have no problem smogging it to the newer truck specks. But would Calif. smog laws want it to pass smog for my '76 trucks year. I'd think the newer set up would do this no problem, except for the visual. I guess I'd have to talk it over with a ref. first.
Just a thought.
Just a thought.
Posted By: CTD5.9
Re: Engine swaps for 72-80 trucks- max mileage - 12/16/14 07:30 PM
A new hemi into a truck would be no different then any car swap and pretty easy these days. However you'd still have mid 70's truck handling. Putting an older body onto the frame would be a ton of work but you'd have something that handled a bit better.
Posted By: demon
Re: Engine swaps for 72-80 trucks- max mileage - 12/17/14 02:48 AM
I just had an idea.
I got to checking wheelbases of Jeeps, thinking about frame swaps and such.
Turns out the the 93-2011 Grand Cherokee has the same wheelbase as a Ramcharger.
Hmmmm.
Track width is close too. The Jeep specs at 2" narrower track, but they also use positive offset rims. With some regular offset wheels the track should be just about right on.
So here's my new idea:
Buy a low mileage Grand Cherokee. Chop all the body off leaving only the floor and firewall on the underbody.
Chop all the floors out of the Ramcharger and lower the body onto the Jeep.
Fill in the gaps and voila! One fuel injected, overdrive, part time 4x4 with all the modern accesories and a 4.0 six, 5.2 V8 or 5.9 V8.
I have a friend who has built numerous body/Frame swapped vehicles in this manner.
I think I'll go looking for a mint Grand Cherokee to hack up.
I got to checking wheelbases of Jeeps, thinking about frame swaps and such.
Turns out the the 93-2011 Grand Cherokee has the same wheelbase as a Ramcharger.
Hmmmm.
Track width is close too. The Jeep specs at 2" narrower track, but they also use positive offset rims. With some regular offset wheels the track should be just about right on.
So here's my new idea:
Buy a low mileage Grand Cherokee. Chop all the body off leaving only the floor and firewall on the underbody.
Chop all the floors out of the Ramcharger and lower the body onto the Jeep.
Fill in the gaps and voila! One fuel injected, overdrive, part time 4x4 with all the modern accesories and a 4.0 six, 5.2 V8 or 5.9 V8.
I have a friend who has built numerous body/Frame swapped vehicles in this manner.
I think I'll go looking for a mint Grand Cherokee to hack up.
Posted By: dogdays
Re: Engine swaps for 72-80 trucks- max mileage - 12/17/14 07:22 PM
You're out of your mind. Here come the guys in the white coats!
R.
R.
Posted By: HotRodDave
Re: Engine swaps for 72-80 trucks- max mileage - 12/17/14 07:23 PM
The rear diffs are complete junk, most are full time 4x4 and most are 3.73 gears and are not know for there great MPG.
I think you would be better off making a dakota work under there with a V6 3.55s and 5 speed.
I think you would be better off making a dakota work under there with a V6 3.55s and 5 speed.
Posted By: Cooter
Re: Engine swaps for 72-80 trucks- max mileage - 12/25/14 05:58 PM
Quote:
I just had an idea.
I got to checking wheelbases of Jeeps, thinking about frame swaps and such.
Turns out the the 93-2011 Grand Cherokee has the same wheelbase as a Ramcharger.
Hmmmm.
Track width is close too. The Jeep specs at 2" narrower track, but they also use positive offset rims. With some regular offset wheels the track should be just about right on.
So here's my new idea:
Buy a low mileage Grand Cherokee. Chop all the body off leaving only the floor and firewall on the underbody.
Chop all the floors out of the Ramcharger and lower the body onto the Jeep.
Fill in the gaps and voila! One fuel injected, overdrive, part time 4x4 with all the modern accesories and a 4.0 six, 5.2 V8 or 5.9 V8.
I have a friend who has built numerous body/Frame swapped vehicles in this manner.
I think I'll go looking for a mint Grand Cherokee to hack up.
I don't know where you got your numbers, but the axles under a ZJ are 9 inches narrower than a RC. 60 1/2", just a hair wider than an early B body. Plus they are unibody, just like the aformentioned B body.
You might a well just hack apart a Coronet, and try to weld the RC to that.
