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Auto Trans Noise Question.

Posted By: Grizzly

Auto Trans Noise Question. - 05/29/14 04:32 PM


Posted this in the q and a section and apparently nobody knows anything about Dodge automatics, so, I'll give it a go here:


It's a 46re in an '01 Ram that developed a louder-than-usual whine in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. The pitch changes on gearshifts. 4th gear seems fine, no noticible noise.

Fluid is darker than normal but still has it's reddish color.

Doesn't do it when the truck is cold.

This just started a couple of days ago. At highway speeds everything is fine and the truck pulls great with no slippage.

If I'm not mistaken, this trans is based off the 727 so hopefully you guys have run into this before.

The only thing out of the ordinary is I'm using an electric fan so there would be zero airflow across the trans cooler with the fan left off which is 95% of the time.

Any suggestions?
Posted By: Guitar Jones

Re: Auto Trans Noise Question. - 05/29/14 04:42 PM

Without hearing it I would say it's the torque converter going south. In O/D the converter is locked up so no noise.
Posted By: BulletBob

Re: Auto Trans Noise Question. - 05/29/14 05:58 PM

The three leading causes of whine in the 518 that I have found & I'll post them from the top
Converter
Pump
Coolant in trans

Like GJ says. If the whine quits in lockup you know what it is
Posted By: Grizzly

Re: Auto Trans Noise Question. - 05/30/14 06:44 AM

Thanks for the replies, Guys.

It sounds really similar to a power steering pump. I'll see if I can capture a video with some sound for you.

Just hit 200,000 miles with it and I havn't abused or grunted on it. Of course, I've had my Special Friends of a few bad TPS's make life miserable for the old torque converter in the past.
Posted By: John_Kunkel

Re: Auto Trans Noise Question. - 05/30/14 06:02 PM


If you suspect the converter is the problem, just shut off the OD; the converter will lock up even with the OD disabled.
Posted By: Grizzly

Re: Auto Trans Noise Question. - 05/31/14 05:50 AM

I did try that John, and for what I can hear (Flowmaster exhaust drowning everything out ), it goes away.

I stopped in at a local Chrysler dealer, talked to their transmission guy and torque converter was the first thing he said too.

So, I wonder how long it will last?
Posted By: BulletBob

Re: Auto Trans Noise Question. - 05/31/14 06:12 AM

The trash from it will most likely collect in front of the OD unit starving it for fluid thus causing more damage
Posted By: Guitar Jones

Re: Auto Trans Noise Question. - 05/31/14 08:25 PM

Quote:

The trash from it will most likely collect in front of the OD unit starving it for fluid thus causing more damage



Don't wait, as Bob said the metal from the converter will trash the entire transmission. I've seen them so bad even the valve body can't be fixed.
Posted By: Grizzly

Re: Auto Trans Noise Question. - 06/01/14 06:12 AM

I'll take your Guys' advice.

I'm willing to pay more for a brand-new converter from Mopar if it's available. Or, is there something you can recommend? I'm in it for the long haul with this truck and would be reluctant to put any of that aftermarket junk in it.
Posted By: SANDYinNS Canada

Re: Auto Trans Noise Question. - 06/03/14 05:09 PM

A quality rebuild will have better clutch material than a mopar converter. Find a local shop that does converters and ask what they use. Kevlar should be the answer you want to hear.
Posted By: Guitar Jones

Re: Auto Trans Noise Question. - 06/05/14 11:31 PM

You can't buy a "new" converter from Mopar. All they sell is remans.
Posted By: dusturbd340W5

Re: Auto Trans Noise Question. - 06/06/14 01:16 AM

Quote:

I'll take your Guys' advice.

I'm willing to pay more for a brand-new converter from Mopar if it's available. Or, is there something you can recommend? I'm in it for the long haul with this truck and would be reluctant to put any of that aftermarket junk in it.




you wont get a new converter and the aftermarket junk I use is way better than the factory converters ever where.
Posted By: Grizzly

Re: Auto Trans Noise Question. - 06/07/14 04:14 AM

Quote:



you wont get a new converter and the aftermarket junk I use is way better than the factory converters ever where.



And just which aftermarket torque converter is it you use that will last longer than my factory one: (202,000 miles to be exact)?

I'm not trying to tick anyone off here but a rebuilder is only offering a 3 month 15,000 mile warranty and they got all offended when I asked Sandy's question about what material they use to re-build a converter.

Then, they got pissy again when I questioned why they want to bypass the factory cooler and charge another $125.00 to add their own cooler. Seems the Dodge cooler isn't up to the task? Funny, been working great so far.

This is coming from a reputable shop that wants $2700 to remove, rebuild and install my trans.

My faith in re-building an automatic transmission is not very high from all the horror stories I've heard.

I found a 70,000 mile transmission for $1000 at the autowreckers. 3 month, unlimited mileage warranty.
Posted By: 727builder

Re: Auto Trans Noise Question. - 06/07/14 04:38 AM

Grizzy, Have you ever replaced Hyd trans hose that has the check ball in it? I built one for a customer that did the same as you described. Was quiet when first started driving it. Then would start to whine. He drove it by my house so i could hear it. I checked the fluid and about burned my fingers it was so hot. Felt the metal trans lines and they was stone cold. The hose with the check ball wasn't letting it circulate enough. Pulled hose off and had one made without the check ball. Cured the problem. Here's a pic of the hose i had made. Red circle is where the check ball is. Total cost of having the hose made was $15. Good luck!

Attached picture 8168268-518transline.jpg
Posted By: Grizzly

Re: Auto Trans Noise Question. - 06/07/14 06:32 AM

I've heard that check ball can be a trouble-maker. I'm not real sure on it's purpose, but I thought they put it in there so you don't get the "have to rev 'er up in gear after it's been sitting a few days to get it moving" syndrome.

Going without it won't affect the truck in cold weather will it?

I'll give it a try, thank-you for the suggestion.
Posted By: 727builder

Re: Auto Trans Noise Question. - 06/07/14 03:13 PM

Its there to keep the converter from draining back. Mopars ran without them for years and years. The converter may drain back without it? But all of our older mopars did as well. But a daily driver you won't notice it gone. And for all of our old mopars it's best to start them and put it in neutral for a couple minutes. They don't pump pressure while in park.

The line with the check ball is one of the first things i look at now. Cause if its sticking and having trouble circulating fluid you can and will burn up the next transmission you put in it. Good luck!!
Posted By: John_Kunkel

Re: Auto Trans Noise Question. - 06/07/14 09:34 PM


The so-called converter drainback valve actually prevents the high-mounted cooler in the radiator side tank from draining back through the converter. Nothing can prevent the converter from draining back.

Anecdotal tales of lockup converters lasting hundreds of thousands of miles are the exception rather than the rule. If given the choice of a factory or aftermarket lockup converter I wouldn't choose the factory.
Posted By: ChinooK440

Re: Auto Trans Noise Question. - 06/08/14 12:14 AM

Sounds like that shop gave you some good advice you chose to ignore.........Replacing the cooler after a bad failure and or with very high mileage is not a bad thing to do .

They are hard to flush properly and a new trans can easily get F.U.quickly from a dirty cooler.

I would just change out the whole entire radiator , there pretty cheap for those trucks and if it,s never been changed before it,s day are numbered anyways.

I would definitely loose that check ball , you won,t notice it,s gone at all.
Posted By: SANDYinNS Canada

Re: Auto Trans Noise Question. - 06/18/14 11:17 PM

sorry to hear that you offended a shop if the couldn't answer you on the clutch the either reuse the factory used clutch or god knows what.

There are several types of clutches available Kevlar is the best one for most applications although carbon fiber is overkill IMHO..

I'm way too far away to deal with but I have been in the trade for 25+ years and my own shop for 17 in same location my shop
Posted By: 71yelladustr

Re: Auto Trans Noise Question. - 06/20/14 04:42 AM

I cant get over the shop wanting to charge you $2700 to R&R and rebuild a 46RE. All I can say is wow. They must be counting on the case and everything being un-usable. I need to move where you are to rebuild transmissions.
Posted By: Grizzly

Re: Auto Trans Noise Question. - 06/23/14 05:29 PM


Somebody scooped that low-mile trans from the wreckers on me, so I'm on the lookout for another one. I figure this is the best way to go for an insurance policy. Plus, I have two other vehicles I can use if my #1 piles up.

I did get a second opinion and was told that if the fluid still looks clean (it is), and it's shifting fine (it is), not to worry about it and keep running it.

FWIW, I didn't ignore your Guys' advice to get after it: I parked it for a couple of weeks and ran something else. But maybe I'm being too picky about the slightest change of sound on my truck. I'll change that line out, and run it until it's get more serious.

Thanks, Everyone, I'll keep you updated.

Attached picture 8185197-003.JPG
Posted By: Grizzly

Re: Auto Trans Noise Question. - 10/04/14 03:55 AM

....and here's the update:

Ran perfect for another 8000 miles.

Then, just a few days ago I put it into drive and all sorts of noise and jerking. Bubbles on the 'stick so I figure maybe I'll get lucky and it's just a plugged transmission filter.

I drop the pan, there's no chunks in it, just goo. Let it drain for two days, blew the lines out both ways, put a new filter on and oil it back up.

Attached picture 8290214-DSCN0390.JPG
Posted By: Grizzly

Re: Auto Trans Noise Question. - 10/04/14 03:56 AM

.

Attached picture 8290216-DSCN0391.JPG
Posted By: Grizzly

Re: Auto Trans Noise Question. - 10/04/14 03:57 AM

..

Attached picture 8290217-DSCN0392.JPG
Posted By: Grizzly

Re: Auto Trans Noise Question. - 10/04/14 04:00 AM

It drove almost normal for about 10 miles, and now we're stuck in first gear.

Awesome.

Found this with 70,000 miles on it and now I'm putting it in. I've never done anything like this before, but I'm going to have to learn.....

Attached picture 8290219-DSCN0394.JPG
Posted By: Pacnorthcuda

Re: Auto Trans Noise Question. - 10/04/14 04:06 AM

That's a LOT of crap on the magnet for 8000 miles. Something is under-destruction.
Posted By: J_BODY

Re: Auto Trans Noise Question. - 10/04/14 07:52 AM

fwiw years ago when I overhauled my 47RE I ended up with about $1400 into it. Converter, OH kit, all the bearings, thrust washers, and input shaft and hub. Obviously I didn't charge myself labor so I'm thinking yeah... the price quoted could get up that high. Hard to give a price on a repair like that until it's out and torn down.
Posted By: Rhinodart

Re: Auto Trans Noise Question. - 10/05/14 04:19 AM

I am the transmission destroyer and I wish I could find someone to rebuild my trans for $2700. I bought the last new factory OD unit for $900 (cost) and the rest of my trans lasted 2K miles before it came apart. I just got my truck back from PA today, it has been there since July and now I get to take it out and back to the rebuilder AGAIN! It may be time to just get another complete trans, I am sure I wasted the new OD unit as the fluid was dark brown when I checked it after it quit.
Posted By: Grizzly

Re: Auto Trans Noise Question. - 10/05/14 04:28 AM

I got that one in the photo above for $800.

So, if I made 210,000 miles with mine, I should get 140,000 out of this one. It's from the autowrecker and he's giving me 3 months unlimited mileage warranty.

Pretty sure it's just the torque convertor that went, but I don't have time to fuss around and repair mine, put it in, have the pump quit/seal leak/or the rest of that mysterious stuff in there go wrong, and have to yank it back out.

Side question for you transmission guys: can I just pull the transfer case and transmission all as one? Service manual says not, but I have access to one kick-ass transmission jack and it looks do-able.
Posted By: Rhinodart

Re: Auto Trans Noise Question. - 10/05/14 04:39 AM

I pulled them separately as that is one big mass to get down all at once! When I blew the engine the transmission was just starting to give me issues at 165K, so I decided to have it rebuilt, biggest mistake I ever made. So far I have a total of $6K into a useless piece of metal and fluids and I get to do it all over again! If I would have known I would have gone with the Allison change-over kit for $6500!
Posted By: Grizzly

Re: Auto Trans Noise Question. UPDATE! - 12/16/14 12:48 AM

Good news, I have this used transmission all buttoned up and have just about a thousand miles on it.

So far, it seems to be working.

Just wanted to update this thread and thank all of you for your posts. This thread too: Link.

You were all very helpful, and am happy to get behind the wheel instead of seeing my truck up on jackstands.
Posted By: Guitar Jones

Re: Auto Trans Noise Question. - 12/16/14 02:33 PM

Quote:

If I would have known I would have gone with the Allison change-over kit for $6500!



Well if anyone could destroy an Allison it would be you.

Glad you got your truck back together Grizzly, wishing you good luck with it and thanks for the update.
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