Any recommendations for a subcompact tractor?

We are in the market for a small tractor for farming and property maintenance on our small farm. Front end loader, backhoe and a tiller would be the required attachments, we don't really need the mower. Pros, cons, and any first hand experiences you might have would be appreciated. Thank you.

I have a buddy who buys and sells little Japanese tractors. Kind of interesting niche. Personally I wouldn't buy anything that wasn't fully supported with a dealer network. There is a big Kubota dealer here in town that sells to all of the vineyards. They like small tractors to work in the vineyards.

I own a kubota BX2200 and would highly recommend a kubota. I have had it for 24 years now and it does everything that I throw at it.I have a front loader, a mid mount mower deck, a rear box blade, and have used a large 6 foot wide tine rake behind it. Mine is a hydrostatic transmission, 3 cylinder 22 HP diesel, and other than regular maintenance, it has not been any trouble. www.Tractorbynet.com is a great forum for tractors like Moparts is for our cars.

Thank you, a lot of information there.

I also own a Kubota. L3400HST. Great tractor. I would skip the Hydrostat though. A geared tractor will continue to pull once you reach its limits and bog down. A Hydro just kicks out and relieves, not allowing the tractor to "work" its way through. A hydro is super easy to use, but a geared/shuttle shifted tractor offers some advantages no doubt.

We've been mainly looking at Massey Ferguson tractors, good reputation and an American company. Although I know these tractor manufacturers have plants all over the world including here in America, MF is USA based as is John Deere. Kubota is Japanese, Kioti, LS and TYM are South Korean, Mahindra is Indian and it appears New Holland is now headquartered in Italy. Pricing is pretty consistent across all the manufacturers so unless there is something standout about one of them over the rest I guess it comes down to priorities.

I have a TYM compact tractor. It's a 4WD, 23 HP Mitsubishi diesel with a front loader, rear PTO and 3 point hitch. It has been an excellent tractor, with the only problem of blowing O rings in a hydraulic fluid junction block right under the seat. It's a hydrostatic drive, and if I had it to do over again I would get a shuttle shift. Load the rear tires on whatever tractor you get. Mine has more front loader capacity than it has ass end weight, so I have to be careful. The thing that sold me on the TYM was the warranty, and the fact that the front loader has quick disconnect levers like a Bobcat. Flip 2 levers and swap the bucket for pallet forks. There are no tractors under 45 HP that are made in the USA, so be aware of that going in. There are several brands (I forget which) that are just rebadged Yanmars. If I were buying a new one right now, it would more than likely be a Mahindra or another TYM with shuttle shift. When you get one, you will find a million things you can use it for to make life easier.

My younger brother has had a Kubota with hydrostatic drive for over 20 years and has been very pleased with it.

No recommendations but some background. Case/New Holland are owned by Fiat.

John Deere is still very difficult to get repair information or aftermarket parts for.

Mahindra has been around for a long time and seems to have a decent reputation

Kubota,little more costly but worth it.

I had a Kubota L3830 with a hydrostatic trans and FEL used mostly to run a wood chipper.
If you plan to do mostly FEL work get the hydro. Also stay with the 25HP or below models to avoid Tier 4 emissions. Yes, the EPA ruined diesel tractors also. I sold my tractor a few months ago for a nice profit since it was 38hp pre-tier4 low hour unit.Lot people thought the asking price was nuts for a 15 year old tractor but it sold in 2 weeks.

Thanks for all the info guys, appreciate it. I've been digging around the internet and it's a convoluted mess lol. We don't have a lot of dealers around here so getting parts or getting it serviced without driving a couple hours one way is a concern. We do have a Kioti dealer local though and they have a good reputation. Our neighbor has two of them, a subcompact and a much larger one (I don't know off hand what model) that he is happy with, so we are going to check them out.

I have a Ford (which is now Case-New Holland) 24hp compact that is 35 years old now and a 47hp Kubota. Both are hydrostat. The way that I use my tractors, there is no way I would have a compact tractor without hydrostat. Just ask this question; will you mainly just load the tractor in a long straight line? Or will you be frequently changing directions and/or speeds? That would be the determining factor(s) in my opinion. Test run both systems as you expect to run it in service to decide which one best fits you and your usage.

And tier 4 would be a deal breaker for me, too. They want you to have an annual service that includes a computer flash. My Ford has been in the shop once in 35 years for replacement of a front wheel bearing that I should have changed myself. I still don't understand that one going bad, but........

Popular tractors like Kubota have a surprising amount of aftermarket support. A couple of years ago I stuck a limb through the radiator of the Kubota. The plastic grill didn't offer much resistance. Kubota wanted $900 for the radiator. Aftermarket was under $200.

All the new tractor engines are tier 4, there is no escaping it.

There is one way. I bought my Kubota used. It is the only used piece of diesel equipment that I have ever bought. It was a tough call, but I just didn't want to be dealing with a Tier 4 situation in the years to come. So I watched the used tractor sites for a couple of years until I found a very clean low hours machine without the emissions crap. Paid a lot for it, not as much as new, but a lot. Have had it for several years and have been very happy with it. No computers, no DEF, and most diesel shops (and often myself) can diagnose and repair most anything on it. IF it needs it. So far, it hasn't.

But if you have to have one right now, then new may be your only choice. Good luck.

I am looking at skid steers now no way I will buy a Tier 4 machine. If I was in the market for a new tractor I would look at a Kubota L2501. 25hp so no Tier 4. I think emissions is worse on tractors than pick-ups. Ford,Ram and GM probably have huge engineering budgets to figure out emissions plus plus there are delete kits.Not for tractors.

Better look again, they are all tier 4.

Watch for a used one. I picked mine up with less than 300 hours and it had been stored inside its entire life. Now they are not as reasonable, but at least you avoid all the new emissions junk

Yes. Tier 4 compliant but Indirect injection; mechanical fuel injection
Tier 4 regs are complex, the criteria for the power and application of the engines that are required to meet these standards
have broadened significantly.
I see a lot of just under new 25hp diesel equipment. I know Kubota discontinued their F3990 mower(39hp) because so many emissions issues. My neighbor has a newer Deere 1025 tractor with no emissions. It's sub compact though.

We are only looking at subcompacts with 22-25 horsepower, but thanks for the heads up, I'll be sure to check them out.

Been with Kubota for almost 30 years. I will say some of the quality the Japanese were known for is slipping a bit IMO and it's not just with kubota. Overall their quality is still there but there are smaller things like cupholder placement ( yeah I know wha wha) seat and pedal positioning etc. thatmake one wonder if they are following Detroit into the late 70's early 80's.
Deere? Most everyone I know has had more issues with them than any other brand and comparison wise they are substantially higher unless things ave changed recently.

Looks like it will be a Kubota BX23S. Dealer about an 1.5 hours away has them in stock for a good price.

Kubota BX23S

I was going to recommend a L2502. Used to be called a 2501. No regen, no exhuast filter. The regen on my 3901 drives me NUTS. Would have bought the 2501 and put a turbo on it in hindsite (see orangetractortalks.com). My opinion is the 2502 is more tractor for almost the same money. No mid PTO though, so no belly mower if thats your thing. If so, you made the right choice on the BX

Love my John Deere 1025R. Easiest mower attach in the business, but I know you said that's not a consideration. I have the bucket of course and a 4' bush hog. I use a 54'" power angle plow in the winter and occasionally a 4' box blade. You may want to look at the 2025R series as it has bigger rubber, but still uses the 24.9 HP Yanmar with no def.

We don't need a big tractor it will mainly be used for property maintenance, clearing streams and brush and some light farming. We are just to old to be digging around here by hand. We did everything over the phone and internet this morning and will be picking it up Wednesday.

I appreciate all the info, thank you to you all.

So what all did you get with it IE: deck , loader, cab, backhoe etc and not tryig to pry but approx. $$. I've got a B3200 that is a lot more than I need BUT it is all paid for. I've thought about downsizing is the reason I'm asking. I'm thinking I would probably come up short for a smaller unit

The BX23S comes with a front end loader and a backhoe, that's all we needed so that is all we got. $23500 plus tax.

Now if you don't mind driving to the south east Alabama border with Florida you can get a similar Branson/TYM tractor and a trailer to haul it on for $21000.

Dixie Horse & Mule

That is a deal and I considered it, but it's 12 hours away from me, the closest dealer here is a bit over 2 hours away and I don't need or want the trailer because I would have to pay taxes on it or hassle with selling it.

thanks for answering Good price IMO.
With the DH or Branson I'd be a bit cautious on long term support as well as local if needed. I really have never heard or either

The other issue is my current unit has a soft cab with heat and the existing implements may need the existing HP.

I hadn't heard of either of them before either until I started looking. South Korean company Kukje makes the Branson tractor and it gets high marks from owners on the tractor forums. TYM also South Korean purchased Kukje last year, so while it is the same company now the tractors are not the same, but that is probably changing. Bad Boy tractors are rebadged Bransons which was a deal made before Kukje was purchased by TYM.

FWIW, growing up farming and ranching, starting my own operation now, I wouldn't buy anything but premium. I don't think about it's usage but how much is it going to be worth when I upgrade. Branson and TYM (and whatever other Korean tractor) is a giveaway.

In my area, John Deere has 0% financing all the time. at least once a quarter,

I am only considering New Holland, JD, Kubota, and even toying with the idea of a skid steer instead because my Dad is my neighbor and has a New Holland, Case backhoe, and a dump trailer that a skid can be hauled in.

I understand, we aren't a large farm though, just a small hobby farm and at our age this is likely going to be our first and last tractor purchase.

Found a couple advertised $17,500 for one and $19,000 for the other: 200 ish hours. I think that's a good deal you have for brand-new, full warranty.

I would have suggested an ASV/Terex Compact Track Loader: I absolutely love mine. Perkins 3cyl, 34hp, no emissions nonsense, made in Minnesota. They don't give these things away though.....$$

So far so good, it came with the large 16" bucket and a step up in tires. That thing you have looks somewhat like a Bobcat. Bobcat also has small tractors, but they seem to be the most expensive by far.

I thought bobcat had them made by some foreign company.

Well as JDMopar pointed out earlier there are no under 40 horse tractors made in this country. Looks like most are Korean.

That is absolutely untrue. The John Deere 1, 2, 3, & 4 series tractors are made in Augusta Georgia. Additionally, most Kubota compact tractors sold in North America are made in the Gainesville GA plant.

Bobcat have some clever ideas in equipment of all sizes, and last I knew they were still using Kubota power.

A few years ago I tried to purchase a new T550 from them. Used machine was not an option.

Bobcat authorizes the dealership network to run like a Mafia and you are forced to purchase from the one in your area no matter how miserable they are to deal with. And they can set whatever price they want on the machine. I called two out-of-area dealers for price quotes. The Thieves in my area were $14,000.00 higher than BOTH of the other dealerships. Had I bought the machine out of area, warranty was voided and the VIN gets red-flagged in their system. Needless to say, but I literally told Bobcat to go F*&# themselves and bought my ASV.

Not trying to de-rail the thread, but, the equipment topic doesn't come up often, and just putting this out there to help anyone else shopping for a new Machine.

On engines, my Dad's John Deere 3520 is Yanmar 37 hp 3cyl turbo power and that's a great engine. Setting at 1000hrs now. Photo attached of the identical machine to His.

ASV run Cummins and Deutz in their large machines, and are now Yanmar in the smaller machines. They still run the Perkins that I have but dropped the rating from 34hp to 24.7hp. My Dealer told me their reason was under 25hp they are emissions exempt.

I hope you update the thread with some fotos of you working that new machine, Guitar. I'm especially curious on how well that Hoe works.

If anyone else is shopping: GET A CAB WITH AIR CONDITIONING!!!!

I believe they are Kioti's

Well I'm curious too, I have never owned or operated anything of the sort before so I'm sure there is a learning curve. We'll see how it goes.

Several years ago (10-12?) Bobcat started selling small tractors and bailed out after a few years. It appears as though they are just re-entering the market
I'd be a bit concerned on long term support unless they are an exact copy of an established unit rebranded

When I was shopping for tractors before my purchase, Bobcat compact tractors were Yanmar's with white paint and Bobcat stickers. Cub Cadet tractors were the same thing. The thing that made me shy away from a small John Deere was the fact that the lower mounts for the 3 point hitch were cast aluminum and would break like toothpicks when using a scrape blade. I have a quarter mile long road to scrape when it snows, so that was a no go for me.

Everyone should shy away from John Deere. They are THE MOST unfriendly company in agriculture when it comes to repairing their machinery and are facing mounting lawsuits over it. The agricultural "Right To Repair" movement is due in no small part to John Deere's attitude and actions on repairing their stuff. They are about as bad as Tesla.

'Nov 27 (Reuters) - A U.S. judge on Monday said Deere & Co must face claims from crop farms and farmers that the agricultural machinery maker has unlawfully conspired to restrict services for maintenance and repair. U.S. District Judge Iain Johnston in Rockford, Illinois, rejected Deere's effort to dismiss consolidated lawsuits accusing the Moline, Illinois-based company of violating U.S. antitrust law.

The judge said the plaintiffs had met legal thresholds to pursue their claims.

"According to the complaint's allegations, Deere has the ultimate control of the repair services market," Johnston wrote in his 89-page order. "These allegations are not mere legal conclusions. The complaint is chock-full of factual allegations to support this conclusion."

Deere has denied the allegations and will have a chance at a later stage in the case to dispute the merits of the farmers' claims.

A Deere spokesperson and attorneys for the company at Jones Day on Monday did not immediately respond to requests for comment.

A lead plaintiffs' attorney in the case, Daniel Hedlund of law firm Gustafson Gluek in Minneapolis, said they "look forward to continuing to pursue the claims of their farmer clients in this right to repair antitrust case."

The case is part of a growing push from consumers and others challenging restrictions on maintenance and repair. A U.S. judge in California this month dismissed a right-to-repair case against Tesla but said drivers could refile an amended complaint.'

www.reuters.com/legal/litigation/de...-repair-lawsuits-judge-rules-2023-11-27/

More expensive than John Deere? My experience has been that "Down at the bank, nothing costs like a Deere".

BS. there is NOTHING that stops a mechanic or farmer from working on their own equipment John Deere or any brand. Just don't expect to get warranty reimbursement or the loan or access to proprietary diagnostic equipment that those companies spent millions and time to produce for THEIR dealers. Those local dealers have hundreds of thousands of dollars invested in THEIR hometown dealerships and need to somehow after the sale to pay their manufacturer trained mechanics and staff employees. You have a bakery and customers start asking you for the recipes and you say sorry "proprietary". They go get a judge to tell you have to give your customers the recipes so they can make their own. Now how do you pay your workers with the reduced business? Yeah, not the same but that's why the local small business selling EVERY brand farm equipment is worried that they will lose income that they invested tens of thousands of dollars into providing a product and service. I buy a JD or any other brand and I want to work on it I will but I'm not going to get p!$$ed if my local JD dealer doesn't loan or rent their diagnostic equipment. I'll just take it to "Billy-Bob's Tractor and Diesel shop in the old Texico station by the old Icehouse.

Why do you think they are GREEN 🤣🤣

What you're not comprehending is that with todays technology Deere is locking BIlly Bob's access to the needed software/ programs required to diagnose their equipment. We're not talking about hydraulics and Diesel injectors but rather GPS, engine management, and a host of other additions that cannot be diagnosed without the technology used to create them.

It doesn't seem that you understand the true magnitude of the situation. You really need to bone up on this 'right- to-repair' situation with Deere. There is a reason that there is a class action nationwide lawsuit where the presiding judge says "According to the complaint's allegations, Deere has the ultimate control of the repair services market," Johnston wrote in his 89-page order. "These allegations are not mere legal conclusions. The complaint is chock-full of factual allegations to support this conclusion."

Do a little research, listen to the real life situations that the farmers and construction guys have been put in and then get back to us.

I don't need to "do a little research", I have and I've personally delt with it working for 34+ years for a motorcycle manufacturer and distributor. About a decade ago they came after the motorcycle industry and mainly Harley-Davidson. It was pretty one sided and driven by "Class Action" lawyers like you see every night and day on the tube. All it took was a few of these independent motorcycle repair shops to whine to LAWYERS about not having access to proprietary HD diagnostic equipment and the ball and whine was rolling. It's easy to paint the manufacturers as the bad guys but what about their local multi staffed and factory trained service, parts and sale's personnel at the local dealership? Those dealerships have to feed their families and pay their bills too. THERE IS NO LAW THAT WOULD KEEP YOU FROM WORKING ON YOUR BRAND NEW JOHN DEERE TRACTOR. The only thing affected is the warranty. If you want to haul a brand new JD piece of equipment back to the farm and pull the motor or take apart your GPS don't worry, you're not going to have the sheriff knocking on the barn door any time. The lawyers are NOT doing this for the farmers, they know and have known for decades how service work policies and warranties on their John Deere equipment works and if it was so restrictive they would move on to another brand.....that other brands most likely have the same policy restrictions. I live surrounded by farmland and I see them working on whatever they need to and can handle from ruptured hydraulic hoses to headers with a problem but not anything like fixing a non-working GPS or two-way radio or a broken piston but they could if they had the time or skill. JD can't stop them. It's the high tech and expensive electronic diagnostics and programing equipment that these independent shops want access to at no cost to them so they can make money without expense to them. Not so much the farmers unless they have their own repair shop. To me it's not the issue the greedy "class action" lawyer(s) make it out to be for the farmers but for benefit of independent service shops. I'll walk across the yard as they start plowing and planting here soon as to how big of an issue this "right-to-repair" really is for them then I can loan them a tool or two when they have an issue?

There is no doubt that John Deere is trying to control maintenance information for their products. Why? They can say all they want about safety but it's all about the benjamins. Look at cars, how easy would it be to work on anything current without at least a code reader? Same thing. What fascinates me is that the best way to correct this is for users to quite buying JD equipment. But when you have a company that not only sells equipment but gloves, hats, shovels, and flashlights, AND PEOPLE BUY THEM, you no longer have company loyalty, you belong to a cult.

So, does that mean that you are not a part of the lawsuit?

And do I detect just a little JDES (John Deere Exoneration Syndrome)?

This issue is going to trial. Unless there is a settlement which seems unlikely. We will hear much more about this and we shall see how a jury feels about it. That is all that matters in the end.

A12, it's not that shops want JD information for free, it’s that JD won't provide it at any cost.

We have a transmission at work from a JD tractor and getting any information on it is a challenge. It took a month to get a copy of the breakdowns so ee could order gaskets and seals. But even that breakdown shows things only as complete assemblies .

Clutch discs, piston seals, bearings are considered non serviceable by JD. If the clutches are worn you can't just get new ones to install for a few hundred dollars. No JD will sell you a complete clutch pack for 8k. Not to mention the delay in ordering that assembly because nobody stocks it.

speaking of shovels, my wife bought one of those at the local ACE hardware store a year or so ago. not cheap by any means, but she figured it would be a good one.
being all of 110lbs, she steps on the shovel in one of her flower beds and promptly breaks the handle ! [ ]
this flower bed has ZERO rocks, and she tills the soil all the time, so hard soil is non existent.
i took the shovel back, and they told me i had to take it to a john deere dealer for replacement ! good grief !
anyone want a "two piece" john deere shovel ?

i ran into that before buying shovels at various stores. IF i could remember where I bought them i usually got "we don't carry that brand anymore". So I started buying all my garden type stuff at Sears. haven't broken one yet Not sure if Lowes would honor the craftsman lifetime warranty (doubtful). But the crafstman at Lowes has a 15yr warranty Not sure on the Kobalt warranty.
One the ACE one I'd take it back and b-tch up a storm. talk to the strore manager, if that doesn't work try calling corporate. Bet you'll get a new shovel
And BTW if so exchange and buy another brand

Access to that will not be at no expense to the small repair shop I can assure you as they will have to buy it from somebody. might also want to look at Ruderunners post as that is as much if not a bigger part of the problem.
the reason I never bought a deere is I could get more for less elsewhere. In addition many I know that did buy NEW deere equipment had more problems than all the others combined

I farm for a living, have mostly John Deere equipment. I have JD because my dad had it and the local dealer is 11 miles away, nearest Case IH dealers is 30, Agco 25, I wouldn’t run Agco for free.
Most of my equipment is preemission but a lot is computer controlled. I can a lot to my machines but there are something’s computer related that I can not. A lot of these problems are dealer related, your service manager can be a good guy or a dick, and it’s not just JD, Case IH is the same deal. Semi tractors and all kinds of other stuff are having these same issues.
I had 2 semi tractors that gave me fits so I sold them and now have all mechanical trucks. The problem with farm equipment is the newer, larger equipment gets more done, but that does come with dollar signs and being more attached to your dealer, warranty is your new master, the machine goes out of warranty and you have to go to the dealer on some of it.
Roughly 1995 Deere started using more computer controlled equipment, most of this was good but yes it does have its quirks. So much for the larger stuff. I had a neighbor that farmed and had a small feedlot, 25 years ago he bought a Belarus tractor for his feed wagon, it was half the price of a comparable JD, 4 or 5 years later he had a JD, the foreign one had no support and was always laid up. Lots of Kubota small tractors around now but I don’t have any personal experience with them. Older clean equipment is really bringing good money now because of the older guys like me still like to fix their own equipment, good luck on your purchase!