Old Index vertical mill parts

I’ve got an old Index verticals mill that I need to get up and running. I think I’ve got the three phase conversion figured out bu all I have for tooling it one drill chuck. I was told that it was older brown and sharp taper. Should I look for brown and sharp tooling, buy adapters or find a company that can convert my spindle to the more common R8 taper?

Interesting, how old is the machine. Explain “got the 3 phase figured out” please

MSC Industrial may have some B&S stuff. If not, hunt around on line: stuff is out there. Or you can also have someone turn down the shank of an R8 drill chuck to B&S. My father did it for an old mill we used to have before he got a Bridgeport.

http://www.vintagemachinery.org/mfgindex/detail.aspx?id=2280&tab=4

notice far right column of potential owners who you might attempt to contact

Look for local auctions of closed factories and/or machine shops.
Take a picture of your mill with you and mill about in the crowd between bidding periods asking for advice and help.
I predict you will be amazed at how knowledgable some of the “pro” buyers will be.
Warning: majority of machinists are cantankerous, quirky, on the verge of crazy.

[quote Warning: majority of machinists are cantankerous, quirky, on the verge of crazy. [/quote]

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how did you guys know i was like that ???????????
45 years at this craft before retirement, and still practicing today, will do that to a guy !

as to the OP, can you post a picture of your drill chuck out of the spindle ?
at one time, i had some B&S colletts floating around here, but i'm not sure what i did with them.
my stuff now is 5-C and a 5-C to R-8 adapter.

I talked to several electric motor gurus and a couple of electricians and everyone either did not know anything about it or knew something about a static converter that used another motor to generate three phase. It was pretty involved and expensive. My car building bud made a belt sander at his shop. He has three phase already but this is a “ ac motor speed control Hybrid Drive”. You get them on eBay and it is great for making speed changes with instead of changing belts. It has single phase input and three phase output.

What you describe is what I have called a Roto Phase, single phase 220 motor that manufactures the third leg 220. Mine will run 50 HP and those ‘phase converters’ will lose 40% of your power, ok for a 1/2 hp motor, maybe. If you converted over to single get nothing less than 5hp, about the max for single. The rotary ones are expensive, comparable one like mine is $12,000, I paid $250, got it with my 37” wide belt sander. 3 phase motors can be started and run with a made up gizzmo, look it up on u-tube.

There are several Brown & Sharp tapers, you need to know which one you have before looking for arbors or adapters.

https://www.starkindustrial.com/brown-and-sharpe-taper-standard

For the phase conversion you might consider a VFD:

https://vfds.com/blog/can-a-vfd-convert-single-phase-power-to-three-phase/

Yep just like above. Very simple hookup and cheap

Much like here.... LOL

Yes the VFD is the modern answer. I bought a big Mazak style Chin Hung lathe from the government auction site, I changed the motor from 600v to 208, and then gutted the entire electrical panel on it. The VFD replaces all the speed and reversing contactors and also has an internal brake that stops the lathe instantly. I can also set the speeds better than before. Motor was 550.00, Vfd was 700.00, Total investment was 3250.00 for a really decent machine.

What hp motor and VFD did you use?

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An accurate description of my father

- used a lower end lenze 15hp drive with a generic 7.6 hp motor that I machined down on small lathe to make the pulley fit.
-'ve done a pile of projects with single phase to three phase conversions, fans pumps,augers,etc and I found that to make it work, the vfd has to be rated for double the size of the motor nameplate to make last.
Another one I did in my own shop that was neat, its a jet drillpress I was given. It had a good quality quill and chuck, but a dinky motor that would stall on larger bits. I took a surplus 3 phase motor I had from an air conditioner, 1.0 hp and put it on a vfd.now the cool thing about the smaller vfd's is that you power them with 115v single phase and make 208v 3phase. On the drill press, now I have infinite speed control, soft start, and reverse for LH drill bits.
The lathe electrical is gutted, the vfd replaces all the contactos.

A big drawback to the VFD is that it will only drive one motor at a time. If you have any power feeds they will need a separate power source.
It wants to start and stop the motor. If you want to reverse the motor (like power tapping) you have to do it through the VFD.

I ran my machines on VFDs for years. A while back I bought an American Rotary phase converter and my world has been a much happier place.

I had an old Wells Index milling machine, just run a phase convertor, cheap@ $3-400 bucks, simple hook up, zero issues....arbors/collets can be had on Ebay cheaper than going R8....

Thanks for all the feedback guys. I guess I don’t have the three phase figured out, then. The guy that gave me the info on the VFD has one on shelf sander that he made. It works great on his but he uses it only as a speed control on his sander. I have two motors. One is on the spindle and one on the table feed. So I guess I can’t use the VFD according to feets. I’ll check American rotary phase converter. My spindle motor is only 1.5 up. As far as the collet. I have one tool that came with it. It is a drill Chuck. I’ll post a picture of it and the spindle. It looks to be just a 1/2” straight shaft. I’m out of my element her for sure. Any help is appreciated.

looks like the collet you have for the drill chuck is 1/2". [or what the shaft size of the drill chuck is]
unscrew the retainer nut from the spindle shaft and the collet will be exposed. it may need a small tap to get it out of the spindle, but when it comes out, that is the style of collets you need to look for.
post a picture of it. i "may" have some of that style still around, and if i do, i'll give 'em to ya.
it's been a long time since i have seen them, and they may have been long gone, but i can at least look.

The tool you use to mount the drill chuck looks like a universal Z collet holder. If so, ZZ collects can be found in almost any size you want. My Tree 2UVR uses those collects in a quick change system. Good stuff. I had a holder similar to yours in my old Gorton O-16a.

Chances are good that you've got a 30 B&S spindle. Those used to be fairly common on mid size mills back in the day.

VFD's can be considered one per motor.

Your spindle speed is separate from your table feed so they do not need to be synchronized. You would need one VFD for the spindle speed and one VFD for the table feed.

Ok, seems I’m getting somewhere. I removed the nut from the spindle and out dropped a 9/16 “ collet. So looks to me like I don’t need to do anything except buy enough collets to fit the end mills that I buy. I assume the 30 B & S taper is what the universal fixture has so I don’t need B & S taper end mills, correct. I looked on eBay and found them for about 15 each or less. So , where is the best place to buy these, what sizes should I get and where is the best place to get get good end mills that aren’t china junk? Thanks for all the help guys.

Oh. I can’t tell for sure but I bet the motor for the table feed is 3 phase as well. The ID plate has been painted over but I found one spot I could read and it said the motor was 220/440 volt. So that means I’d have to have two VFDs to make it work.

If his table feed is 110/120Volt then no need for 2 VFD's....wire the table feed to a 110/120 outlet

The table feed motor plate says 220/440 but I can’t find the phase because it’s painted over. I’m assuming that it’s 3 phase.

See how many line feed wires go into the motor, 2 = single, 3 = 3 phase. Not counting the ground

That's a Universal Z collet. I use them in my mill.
Pick up an organizer from Horror Freight and fill it with Ebay collects. If they're clean and free from burs you're good to go. Those things are available in all kinds of common and weirdo sizes.

Again, I'd skip the VFD and go with a rotary converter. It's a big quality of life improvement.

That is going to be my net step. I got sidetracked today.

Check with H & W Machinery in Fort Wayne Indiana. They mention converting obsolete spindle tapers into the common R8.
https://machinerypartsdepot.com/

There are tons of these older parts on Facebook marketplace at almost giveaway prices.

Thanks Dave, I have not forgotten that either. Just looking at the collets on eBay, there seems to be plenty. I’ll try Facebook when I get time. Collets and leaving it as is may be my easiest option.