Estate trust and classic car??

We are starting an estate trust to allow our assets to go to who we want them to as opposed to a will. We are also doing the asset protection in case we have to go to a nursing home. Father in law needs to go to a home, but they will lose everything to pay for it as Medicare will not help because they own too much. They could sell the house to family and keep paying and living there as they are now, but they look back 5 years to make sure you don't sell off your stuff. We are putting 2 bank accounts and the house into the asset protection trust. We will have the regular bank accounts in a regular trust, but asset protection trust can't be used for daily expenses. We have 4 vehicles. One is a lease (no big deal there as we don't own it), 2 have lifetime warranties (don't want to put those in the trust as Chrysler will probably void the warranties), and the classic with Hagerty and authentic Michigan plates. The plates don't need renewed as long as we are owners/registered to us. Would a trust need to change regsitration/plates? We would like to keep the same plates on them (had them on there the past 15 years). The daily auto insurance said mixing trust and personal vehicles gets hectic. Classic is with Hagerty and daily with them. We can specify in the trust who gets what vehicle, but was thinking of reducing our estate value in case we get into a lawsuit or need to go into a home.

Any advice or experience?

Advice? Find a GOOD lawyer who has experience in these matters. My wife's mother just passed (father passed years ago). Both parents had put the entire estate into a trust years before he passed. Now my wife (and the rest of the siblings) is faced with basically dissolving the trust and distributing the assets. It's been a total and complete pain. I don't consider myself an idiot but I still, after six months, don't understand how the trust was formed, why it was formed the way it was, and how to treat it now. The family retained a lawyer and he is navigating the maze. Best I can do.

You really need an estate planning lawyer in your state to get this right. In my state when we did this It was 7 years they could look back and take the property if the person transferring property knew they were sick and went to assisted living. If you have a history of heart problems, then start going to the doctor every 2 weeks, then form a trust, they will clean your clock. That's why so many old people with no family, or [censored] family get hosed. Get a pro and you must keep perfect records. Classic cars, jewelry, collections, some kinds of insurance go on an attached sheet, with directions as to who gets what, and you need an executor.

Find a good attorney with estate, power of attorney and living will experience (I know, the easy answer).
He/she should also be current on the language used by various entities like banks & etc - they parse every word.
I went rounds with BofA for example, and one of Mom's investment outfits, even though there was a trust and 2 types of POAs.
Took months to sort out, and that was without vehicles. Their attorney had been a bit casual in some wording.

Definetly good advice given about getting a lawyer. As stated get an estate planning lawyer. Also, have everything put in a trust.. If not , everything has to go through probate. A lot is involved when going through probate.
Some lawyers shy away from trusts because they make more money doing probates. Also, check and see if your state requires you to pay inheritance and estate taxes. Some states don't take in these taxes. Florida is one of them.
Make sure your father has a will and power of attorney drawn. If he is of sound and mind, have him do it. Make a couple copies of originals with signatures. You want to keep originals. Depending on your state , some won't accept a copy of the will
, so everything might have to go through probate. Have someone in the family be executor and someone be power of attorney.
In reference to investments; call up every investment company your father has and update all beneficiary forms. Also, request power of attorney paper work. Fill those out and send to each investment company along with a copy of the
power of attorney forms.

The only thing I have to add to the above is to make sure your trustee has access to the ORIGINAL documentation. In my experience, getting a copy to be a "state certified copy" was a bit of a pain. God only knows how it would have unraveled if any of the heirs would have contested it.

Best and easiest IMO, just gift the stuff way before your decline/demise, the best upside, you get to enjoy the receivers enjoying the gift. You can continue to maintain/support their upkeep as you feel appropriate.
I speak from experience, it's just stuff anyway.

this^^^^^^^^

Our plan for our retirement accounts and investments is to have it go to the spouse first and trust second. If one of us dies, then the other will be set. If both of us die at the same time, or one lives a bit longer, the kids will be set and they get what they get per our attached list. We brought up some of this to my son (my son, not biologically hers) and he said Jamie (our daughter together) would have to buy him out of the house to live there. Not sure if he just wants the money or was joking. But with that, we decided Jamie gets 50% of my assets and 100% of the wife's assets. Ronald (my son) gets 50% of my stuff and none of the wife's. He has a mother and can split her stuff up. We are going to be trustee's first, then a lady we know (not a relative and well off, so she won't be in it for the money), and then probably our daughter (she's only 16 now, so she should be 18 before anything happens for sure). We don't want my son to screw over our daughter. He is a good kid, but don't trust him to do the right thing and live by our wishes, so a trust is the way to go vs a will. We have a financial advisor as well and he recommended the lawyer we are using. He may or may not get a copy of the trust to make sure we are doing things right as far as investments. We will also buy a lock box for the trust and keep it in there with the keys in a safe deposit box so the kids can't snoop. We will show them the trust minus the part of who gets what. We have bank accounts set up at a credit union that are for the kids and those will be protected with asset protection. That money is for an extreme emergency if need be, but primary reason for them is for the kids to use for what they need after a certain age. Don't want to see them blow through it for a stupid reason.

I am a fan of having both a revocable and irrevocable trusts. How they are used needs to be tailored to your situation. We've had really good luck with both mine and Linda's parents doing what jcc suggested above plus having joint accounts between the parents and intended beneficiaries. Of course this only work well when everyone is trustworthy.

We've never bothered with the cars and won't going forewad.. Are you worried about what actually happens to the car (future owner), or that the car's value/worth might not be transferred to the beneficiaries?

Finally, be careful in using a safe deposit box. Do your research in your state. There is a good chance that there will be serious challenges in accessing it irrespective of POAs, wills and trusts.

Great advice, when we did our every person involved has a copy, all my kids, my bookeeper, and my lawyer.

Classic cars cant do into the trust

Why not? At least here in Ohio they can be, you just have to make sure the trust is listed as the owner on the title.

I agree with Butterscotch71.. but ted may have specific experience with NY state rules or other Trust law.. let us know ted.

Maybe we need to make a distinction between who or what can "own" an asset vs how a person can direct their assets be managed upon their death? Maybe a Trust can't own and operate a vehicle, or can't be a vehicle's Insured party?

My story:
I was the Executor of my uncle's estate in 2010. He had set up an Irrevocable Trust *many* years prior, so there was no "look back" issues. The initial asset owned by the Trust was his house. Upon his death, his Will dictated what assets were to go into the Trust - which was basically everything else:
- The contents of his house.
- All his investment accounts and the payouts of his insurance policies by means of the Trust being listed as Beneficiary.
- His Carver cabin cruiser, and his two cars.

As Executor, I liquidated all the assets, including the house, with all the proceeds going into the Trust.

Now, I also happen to be the sole Trustee of the Trust. The Trust Agreement gives the Trustee full and complete independence of action to decide how to invest and manage the Trust's assets. I have placed the funds in various investments, however, I could absolutely buy classic cars as part of the portfolio. If I had chosen to do so, a car's NY Title would be issued in the name of the Trust.

Based on the above, I am quite certain a car or boat or anything with Title, can be placed in ownership of a Trust.

This was 10 years ago, the process was pretty complex and I might be off on some detail.
- Art

Anything with a title can be put in a trust. Hagerty said there is no issue insuring it if we go that route. I would think they would know since I emailed them specifics. Sounds like the other tricky part will be bank accounts and savings bonds. We have to update the beneficiaries once the trust is set up fully. Safe deposit box just requires us to put a few other names on it. We have the intention of all bank accounts going to the kids. Our daughter (wife and mine) will get 100% of her accounts and 50% of mine. My son (not the wife's) will get the other 50% of my accounts. Technically, he should only get 25% of the house value, but we are listing it as 50%. That may change. Yesterday we decided since he is 21 to give him the option (daughter gets some money at 21 as well) of putting his name fully on an account we have set up for him. We used it to pay for his trade school and were still putting a little into it each payday. Our daughter has the same set up. He chose to get the money out and deposit into his regular bank account. Not even a thank you text. All I got was "I can get a nice four wheeler now" text. He didn't say thanks until the wife texted him and asked if he thanked me. I'm a bit ticked about it. Am I looking at it wrong? Yes the money was set up for him and it's his now, but it was almost $10k. We are the primary trustees, then in case something happens it is a friend, sister in law, another friend. Daughter takes over when she is 18 or 21, forgot which one we put. Shouldn't matter, we will be around after that. She also lives in the house until she's 30 and then has to buy it out from my son or sell it and split the profit. She may be living on her own by then, but we don't want her to have to worry about a place to live.

Transfer of ownership of straight bank accounts is pretty easy, I think. Ask your bank about the following two scenarios.

1.) Whoever you want the account to go to, simply add them as a Signatory to the bank account. Your wife is easiest - she goes to the bank with your daughter and fills out simple paperwork and your daughter signs a Signatory card, and you're done. If your wife passes away, your daughter becomes 100% sole owner. No probate, no nothing, she owns the account. With your son, you'd have to separate out 50% of your money and establish a stand alone account with his and your names. Once you die, he becomes owner. The other account with the other 50% you have our daughter as Signatory and she will own that one.

2.) I've also heard of a simple document for bank and investment accounts called a T.O.D. - Transfer On Death. Ownership is transferred to the designated person once a death certificate is produced. No probate, no court. My understanding is a TOD is useful when you don't want or need another designated party to be a Signatory while you are alive.

Ownership of Savings Bonds was a longer process, but worked fine.
You fill out forms, mail them in to the US Treasury with the original bond certificates, and the Gov't re-issues each bond in the new owner's name, which can also be a Trust, as long as you establish a Tax ID / EIN for the Trust. In my case, I had to wait for Probate Court issuing me authorization as Executor, then I filled out the forms to have my uncle's Treasury Bonds re-issued in the name of the Trust with EIN listed on each one. They are maturing, so as the Trustee, I cash them in as advised by my CPA.

Cheers,
- Art

We are going to wait until the trust is set up and ready to be funded before we designate beneficiaries on some things. The trust will have certain accounts specified to who gets what percentage. Savings bonds can go to the trust and designated to our daughter. That's who the wife bought them for anyway, but didn't put her name on them. We could go to treasury direct and convert them to electronic and designate a beneficiary as well. If we do that, they will either change bond numbers or already be set up in the trust, so it won't matter. We use Chase for daily banking and the lawyer suggested to just put our daughter as beneficiary so she gets it if something happens. That's the account we pay stuff with.A learning experience for sure.