Did you ever think you would see the end of american cars?

I sure didn't , I grew up in an time when we would eagerly drive to all the dealers in the fall to see new and revised models. GM,Ford,and Chrysler seemed like giant america icons that would roll on forever building cars.
Obviously they still produce vehicles at least for now but for how much longer. GM now sells domestically Chevy: Corvette, Camaro to be discontinued , Malibu to be discontinued in 2022 and the Sonic production stopped. Buick has stopped selling all cars in the US. They only sell re-branded SUV's now . Cadillac is down to the CT5 and CT6 to be discontinued. Ford only sells the Mustang. Fusion production has stopped. Chrysler is down to the 300 with Dodge soldiering on with the Charger/Challenger. They say the market has shifted away from cars but Toyota still sells 300 K Camry's a year. Do they really think the kids riding around in the back of Toyotas are going to drive a Buick SUV' or even keep buying Ford trucks when they get older? I guess its just sad to see. Will the Corvette and Mustang be the only two soul surviving American cars 10 years from now. Time will tell! Hold on to your old cars as they truly are getting more special every day.

For some reason, American car makers haven’t been able to build small cars profitably. The make bank on SUVs and trucks. I guess they are giving up on cars and focusing on SUVs and trucks. Time will tell if they made a smart move, or if they will come to regret giving up on cars.
I bought a Dart in 2014 and it’s been a great car. It has close to 100K miles and still has no rust even in this climate. I was laughing a few weeks ago when I saw news stories and videos about new Ford trucks that have rusty hardware and axles already. My Dart still is nice and clean underneath after many salty winters.
But my car gets no respect, American car makers built enough dogs over the years everyone assumes that any car they build will be a POS I guess.
I traded a 2008 Focus on the Dart, that car was the most trouble free car I’ve ever owned. The next generation Focuses had a terrible transmission though, so Ford apparently ruined that car’s reputation with that transmission.
For general driving around chores and commuting, I like a small economical car. I hope my Dart lasts forever because otherwise I may have to break down someday and do something I swore I’d never do, buy a Toyleta or Hyundai.

I think the reason they "can't make money on cars" is just a new twist on the old planned obsolescence scheme, they build crap cars so nobody will want them so they can make more money selling SUVs that are allegedly better quality.

I agree. Trucks and SUVs with problems have replaced cars with problems.

When I was ordering a new Ram a few months ago, I mentioned my Dart to the veteran CDJR salesman I’m working with, and he said when the Darts were out, they were hard to sell because FCA never offered incentives on them to help sell them. It sounded like they invested a lot in designing them but put no effort into helping dealers sell them.
My “mini Charger” parks outside, gets driven year round all weather, yet after a wash still looks brand new. Drives tight with no rattles. Seems like a very well designed well built car, they should have sold a million of them, but they didn’t ....

I have a friend that wanted one new for his daughter but he was afraid the company wouldn't support it long. Boy was he right. She ended up with a Civic. I just think they are in big trouble. As I wrench on my old Plymouth's my son and his friends all drive import tuner stuff. They think the old stuff is cool like in an old car way, Have never heard of Plymouth, and have no intention of ever buying an american anything ever in the future.

LOL...I used to be in the same boat. Truthfully, once I bought a Toyleta, I will never go back to the other brands for daily drivers. 280K and still not a squeak or a rattle. None, zippo. I get that they are not all perfect, but when I see my buddies dealing with their GM garbage with virtually no miles (in comparison) I just laugh.

I've got a 16 Dart with almost 90k miles. It's my daily driver. I replaced the DS front wheel bearing last year. I also had it re-aligned because of some rear tire wear. The dealer put some kind of insulating tape in the overhead console to fix a rattle under warranty. It's been a good car. My only complaint is the power. It's light but the 160hp 2.0L isn't going to win any races. I think Dodge might have turned it around with an SRT4 version but they killed it before that could happen. The black GLH concept looked really cool.

After I had a toyota yaris go almost 300,000 miles and then I still sold it for $1400 I kinda saw the handwriting on the wall for American cars.Our Beetle has about 250,000 and has been a good car also.

I've had a couple toyotas through the years, and while dependable, they rusted much faster than anything else and were the most boring vehicles I've ever owned.

Part of the problem with north american companies is they're hit and miss with their advertising and they don't seem to pay attention to what people want and will change a popular model to something that no-body wants or they let it drag on too long and then make something no-body wants. When I was growing up we always had a mix of imports and domestic and other then a lemon (which was a GM) they were all pretty equal as far as reliability and drivability went.

Part of the problem dropping cars is that pretty soon it can affect their truck sales too. If you have someone who's used to driving import cars if they go truck shopping that's usually where they'll look first too because that's what they're used to. Or they'll go from driving an import car to driving a domestic truck and if it has problems they'll ditch it and go look at imports again.

Part of the problem dropping cars is that pretty soon it can affect their truck sales too. If you have someone who's used to driving import cars if they go truck shopping that's usually where they'll look first too because that's what they're used to. Or they'll go from driving an import car to driving a domestic truck and if it has problems they'll ditch it and go look at imports again. [/quote]




Bingo, how is it we see this stuff but the product planners and management of these companies never seem to get it. I guess its all short term profits and Money. I hear Robert Eaton has a great home in Florida.

LOL. If by 'boring' you mean that you do not get to personally know the service department manager and the entire staff at the dealership, then yes, boring. I finally went to the dealer at about 250K miles and asked the service manager if there was anything that I really needed to do on the car to keep it going. He laughed and said keep driving it and no. I will take 'boring' all day long for my DD

I still will always walk instead of owning a Japanese, Italian, Korean, or German car, and my heritage is German. Of course I do not drive cars, no use for them. My wife has a 2015 Chrysler 200 and before that an 04 Sebring convertible. Zero issues with the 200, and the only problem with the Sebring was the aluminum strut pucks in the rear that turned to dust with 200K miles on it about a year before we sold it. I have no idea what she will own after the 200 is done, hopefully it will last another 20 years...LOL.

Dont change the tranny fluid, new fluid (with all the detergent) will clean the clutches bare. I am leaving mine, even with "only" 150,000. They're not serviceable for a reason, goes for all vehicles.

Most of the smaller CUV's they replaced the cars with are just jacked up cars with a different name and body, for example the Cherokee is the same chassis as the dart/ 200. They all do it. Same car with a better view of the road

As trucks and SUVs get bigger and bigger people in cars may feel vulnerable and no longer safe driving them as well. Hard to see if your in a car surrounded by lifted quad cab trucks.

Exactly what I went through, I couldn't see anything as I was one of the lone cars in a sea of larger vehicles. I noticed it ALL the time and now I have a jacked up 4x4 lol, its refreshing being able to see again! And not just for that reason, its also extremely nice being able to use my vehicle now. I go camping in the back country with it, can tow with it, go off roading in 4-low, lots of room for the dog and gear, good in all weather conditions, roof racks, I've used all the room with the seats down as a rolling storage unit before - versus, a car, to get groceries with and go back and forth to work.

Possibly a profit issue. Ford was selling 200k fusions when they stopped making them. You can't make a profit on 200k units???? BS. Take a look at the prices of new vehicles. Ford was making 15% on cars and 35%+ on the trucks. Ergo, stop making cars. Oddly enough I was sitting at the light this morning and noted 1/2 the vehicles going past me were still cars. That said, There must be a market. I only own 1 truck but have 4 cars not including the hotrods.

America's car companies have lost the plot. I can only imagine this is what it must've been like in the mid-50's when great marks that survived even the depression began to fall one by one.

Hudson.... Nash.... Packard.... Kaiser.... Willys.... Studebaker.... even claiming DeSoto.

In my time, I've seen Plymouth, Oldsmobile and Pontiac die.

I've seen the birth and death of the "Sport Compact" range of cars. We're on the precipice of seeing American-made 2-door cars disappear!! That just blows my mind.

But, American car makers have forgotten two things that would draw people to a car: Style and Substance.

I'm sure we can all agree that cars today are not.... pleasing to look at. There are very, VERY few exceptions. I thought the Dart and 200 were cute - I was waiting for a sportier, 2-door version to come out.
The 2015 Mustang is pretty darn good looking, dare I say it's one of, if not THE most attractive car to come out of Detroit in a long, long time. But with every update, they're just taking a hatchet to the poor thing.
Not all of us, but I'm sure some of us have sat in the garage, with or without compadres and just sat and admired your vintage car. My AMC Javelin is gorgeous and beautifully sculpted. E-body Challengers and Cudas with their simple yet aggressive style. A Charger with it's full-width tail lights and flying buttress roof panels.... I mean, these are damn-near pieces of ART in comparison to modern gobbledy-[censored]!

Nothing seems to stir people any more. Or if it does, it costs an ever-loving fortune!!! Detroit tells us "Nobody buys 2-door sport coupes anymore." Huh. Well, somebody better tell BMW that because they've damn-near cornered the market there. Honda, too.

Or how about a small, sporty car that's cute, fun and affordable? Oh crap. I had to throw that word in there. A few years back, I went and looked at one of those little BRZ/FR-S/GT-86 that Subaru/Toyota had come up with. Fantastic Premise, great little car, sexy styling but oh mylanta..... I dunno about the USA, but up here in Canada I spec'd one out that couldn't quite match up to the STANDARD EQUIPMENT of a Mustang, and the FR-S was $33,000 plus tax. I had to pay extra for an f****** ARMREST. I was about $5000 shy of a Mustang GT that came with more features as standard and more than double the power.

I don't think there is a single car today for sale for under $20,000 in either Canada or the USA. Hyundai used to have their Accent for $9,999.99 and that wasn't that long ago!!

Personally, I'm disgusted by the absolute useless garbage they ladle into cars today. Automatic Braking; Radar-Guided Cruise Control; One-button parallel parking..... Those are all the things a person should learn when driving. If they can't do those things: they shouldn't be driving!!! I refuse to pay money for something I'll never use.

I almost think we need something revolutionary. A modern Model T. Something that provides good, reliable, comfortable transportation at a reasonable price. It's no wonder there are fewer and fewer younger drivers: A) we've practically priced them OUT of the market. Anything older and *cool* is a small fortune; and anything modern and reliable is..... a small fortune. The average kid making minimum wage would have to save every penny he earned for 2-3 years to buy a used chunk of $hit.

I think we need to go back to crank windows; manual adjusted seats, manual steering. Hell, my first car was an '82 Honda Civic! It had all those things, a snippy little motor, 5 speed gearbox and ran for 2 weeks on $12 worth of gas. I think the federal regulations on cars too has choked them out of the market. Making something small and fuel efficient isn't going to be 5-star crash rated; hence the gigantic bro-dozers people drive today.

We need to get back to basics. Could you imagine the fuel economy of something like an '82 Civic with a MODERN, fuel-injected engine??? But some Ralph Nader / Karen type would complain "it's unsafe" and destroy any chance it had.

My last three car purchases were foreign. First was the BMW 330Ci convertible to replace the 2002 Sebring Limited convertible. We only sold the BMW because I couldn't see driving it a few hundred miles a week. The BMW did several things really good. It was just about as quick as the 340 GTS convertible AND got 27 mpg on the highway. Outhandled every car I've ever owned except the Miata (they were comparable).

We replaced the BMW with a 2020 Hyundai Elantra ECO (not a hybrid). Criteria was simple, 40+ mpg on the highway and heated seats (keeps my back loose - I'll have the seats on with the AC running). AND, we got a smokin' deal on the car ($5,500 below sticker).

I want to replace the 2000 Durango with a new one. Might happen at the end of the year. In that case I really don't see anything else on the market that is really comparable.

Personally, I'm disgusted by the absolute useless garbage they ladle into cars today. Automatic Braking; Radar-Guided Cruise Control; One-button parallel parking..... Those are all the things a person should learn when driving. If they can't do those things: they shouldn't be driving!!! I refuse to pay money for something I'll never use.

I almost think we need something revolutionary. A modern Model T. Something that provides good, reliable, comfortable transportation at a reasonable price. It's no wonder there are fewer and fewer younger drivers: A) we've practically priced them OUT of the market. Anything older and *cool* is a small fortune; and anything modern and reliable is..... a small fortune. The average kid making minimum wage would have to save every penny he earned for 2-3 years to buy a used chunk of $hit.

I think we need to go back to crank windows; manual adjusted seats, manual steering. Hell, my first car was an '82 Honda Civic! It had all those things, a snippy little motor, 5 speed gearbox and ran for 2 weeks on $12 worth of gas. I think the federal regulations on cars too has choked them out of the market. Making something small and fuel efficient isn't going to be 5-star crash rated; hence the gigantic bro-dozers people drive today.

We need to get back to basics. Could you imagine the fuel economy of something like an '82 Civic with a MODERN, fuel-injected engine??? But some Ralph Nader / Karen type would complain "it's unsafe" and destroy any chance it had.

Agree with this 100%. My wife bought a new CRV last year. Has all of the whistles and bells. Lane departure, Honda safety sense, blah, blah, blah. I shut as much of the garbage off as I could. I DETEST the infotainment screen. ALL I WANTED TO DO WAS TURN THE AIR CONDITIONING ON...not set 47 different zones, modulate this, adjust that. I'm an engineer by trade and I 100% know what the first thing to fail will be. It would not be crank windows and manual seats. I wrote a letter to Honda asking them to bring back the 1999 CRV (which my daughter still has for a winter beater). The absolute pinnacle (in my opinion) of the vehicle. Simple...reliable.....no BS. Yes, the new one gets great gas mileage, but I can say that as soon as we creep up on the end of the warranty cycle, it will be gone.

I predicted on here when the Dart and 200 were cancelled that Chrysler was going to get caught with their pants down when fuel prices went up. As usual, the Mo' Farts knew I was right, but you guys argued with Me anyway.

Looked at the pumps lately?



At least it's not just Chrysler that will be sitting looking at miles of 4 door trucks and SUV's unsold: Blunder Motors and Ford are going to get cut off at the knees too.

Well maybe they caught a break, with all the component shortages, they’ve had to cut their production down a lot, and consumers are going to be limited in their choices when new car shopping, as there aren’t a whole lot of unsold vehicles of any type sitting around anywhere, and that’s not going to change for the foreseeable future!

People love them multi-door monster trucks and will go without food before they let them go.

I think everyone is missing the fact that the SUV's are classified as "light trucks", which have different emission and crash standards than cars. . . . not as strict . . . so - that means the companies make MORE $$$ for sale of each SUV/CUV and they bring the overall fleet MPG up (helping the BIG trucks they sell) . . . so even if they were selling cars and making $$ on them, they weren't making anywhere NEAR as much as they can with he SUV/CUV products . . . at end of day, it is a business, and shareholders want dividends paid . . .

Times are changing...kids today will want electric cars tomorrow.

I have bought A LOT of new cars over the years, more than I should have (financially speaking) Out of them all my favorite was the 83-85 Mazda 626 coupe with a 5 spd. I'd buy a new one to day if I could. 30 MPg or so around town and high 30's on the road trips with the A/C on running 70-80 MPH. Carbureted to boot .

Weird. Every time we’re out with old cars at a meet, the pass all the electric cars and go right to the classics. That happened in the 70’s electric/fuel saver cars were all around, but ignored by everyone. Then the motor swaps started and every south rather have an induction sticking through their hoods than mileage for their rides. Electric cars are here to stay, but there will always be a market for fuel powered vehicles.

I am saddened by the loss of American cars. But I do wonder about the future for kids. Someone above mentioned that it would take three years pay for a low wage kid to buy any worthwhile car. I expect that they should diminish in value quickly. All of the computer controls will be the death of them. For instance, I have an '05 Volvo wagon, that I like a lot and have had for a long time. Recently, I lost high beams. The high beam relay is now built into the "Electronic Control Module". OK, $900 for the module, $300 for stealer to reprogram, and I didn't even ask about labor to replace it. So, something over $1200 and what have I regained? High beams, amazing. Fortunately I was a "car kid". I installed a "radio shack" switch, ran power to the high beam fuse and now I have high beams (but inconvenient). Still, it is reasonable to expect a relay to fail, so you build it into a $900 module where it is not independently serviceable. Great. No wonder the Consumer Magazines recommend that you get out of a "luxury" car when the warranty expires.

It was all made clear to me years ago. I was at an auto show and was looking over the '93 Seville with the Northstar (I shouldn't even write that word). The motor was transverse and I mentioned to the salesman that it must be quite a job to replace spark plugs. He said "they last 100,000 miles". I mentioned that sooner or later they would need replacement. He replied "We don't sell used cars". I guess Cadillac survived the Northstar with a pretty good hit to their reputation (some remember the 4-6-8). Then they gave us the 3.6. I really don't know who was running GM, but as they say "When small men cast long shadows, the sun is going down".

You guys would not believe what my 20 year old was looking at today. 2005 Lincoln Town Car. Hmmm. Big car, rides nice, plenty of leg room and a V8 all for about 10k with under 100k miles.

I'm an instructor at a tech college. We have a 2019 Cadillac CT6 that we use for training. Absolutely beautiful car! I sure wouldn't want to own it after warranty. Twin turbo 3.0, 4 wheel steer, super cruise, auto sun screens, auto park, heat/cooled/massage seats, power tilt/telescope column,night vision, 360 camera, active suspension......the list goes on and on. Put a scan tool on it and scroll through the never ending list of "modules" and the data/codes/functions they provide! It currently has a long range radar module down which produces a crap ton of comm codes and driver assist issues.

Anyone want to hop in and diagnose that? Yet we all [censored] about dealer labor rates and dealers pay the "mechanics"(that seriously need to be refereed to as technicians) $20-$30/hour. It'll get to the point we'll be glad to find someone to work on this stuff at $100/hour. It's mostly high end stuff now but will be mainstream VERY soon.

I had a similar situation recently. My Mom has a 2015 Corolla that she bought new. Car just turned, 40K. When I last took it to the dealer for a recall fix and oil change (at 38K), I asked if there was anything else we needed to do to the car, and he said "yeah, drive it more!".

Someone mentioned the electronics are gonna be the downfall of vehicles as they age. I'm running into this with my '93 Dakota. I understand parts can't be kept around forever, but, what is someone supposed to do 20-30 or more years down the road?

That's going to be another thing! Support!! With my '87 Daytona, the dealerships are useless for anything. All parts went NS1 years ago. The 80's cars are currently in no-man's land where the parent corp. no longer supports them and no aftermarket companies have bothered to take them under their wing. I guarantee you're going to start seeing GOOD examples of these cars rocket up in price very shortly. It's already begun. Hell, look at what a Pontiac Fiero is worth today!

But back to what I really wanted to comment about : my daily driver is a 2004 Hyundai Tiburon. Granted, at this point it's 17 years old, but the dealer again will have nothing to do with it in as far as parts go. I can't even get FLOOR MATS for the damned thing anymore. What's worse is that there ARE parts warehouses in Korea that stock a healthy variety of parts for these cars, but the dealership, since it's no longer obligated to support the car, flat out REFUSES to. My local dealer uses aftermarket parts from Lordco, Napa, etc. But then again, I don't know if it's just my local dealer that's staffed with idiots (which it is) or whether it's company policy. But in my mind.... the car isn't that old. You'd think parts would be available. I guess I should have bought spare floor mats when they were available.

Yep. Tesla and GM are gonna give it to them. So for now enjoy your 700 hp trucks and suvs.

Honestly I'd rethink the Lincoln. Yes they are based on the Panther platform but there's enough oddball parts that they can get pricey to repair.

For a long term keeper, a Crown Victoria or Grand Marquis is a better choice. Plus they can be reskinned to look like a 2nd generation Charger.

I don't think he was serously considering the Lincoln but it was cool that he considered it. I have the 69 Cyclone and yeah, just enough oddball stuff to cause problems finding parts.

On the DD topic. My DD is an 09 Corolla basic. It has one setting for intermitent wipers, 140k, rolldown windows, no power lock doors. I mean it is basic. My aunt laughed when I bought it and said she didn't think you could find a car like that anymore. Yeah, well guess what will not be breaking. At the rate of mileage, I will probably own it for at least 15 more years unless I sell it to my 16 YO.. The 20 YO has an 07 corolla. I've tried to tell him to own it until it dies. Stickshift car.

I work for a company that builds test equipment. We support a large company that does most HVAC assemblies for a variety of manufacturers. With all of the added convenience features (i.e. I want a cool butt, warm knee, sub-cool crotch, cold right thigh BS, plus the same for the passenger) they modulate and control the ducting using a bunch of custom mechanical link arms tied to a BUNCH of motors. Worst one we ever tested was for the Germans...18 individual motors. All of them individually addressed on a communication BUS. Any of them can fail individually and oh, by the way, good luck getting to any of them to repair or replace. All of this mess is controlled by their own HVAC controller, which again is their own. Yea....once the warranty is gone, run fast and hard.

I have a 1965 IH Scout. It has exactly 2 controls for hvac. 1 fan speed: off low high. 2 Mode: heat or defogger.

At nearly 60 years old, both work as intended.

It has manual crank windows, which still work as designed, 60 years later.

I have a 92 Dodge truck, the power door locks don't work. Otherwise everything else is ok, well except for the flaky TPS.

I have a 08 Charger. The dash is lit up like a Christmas tree, the remote trunk release doesn't work, the ac doesn't work (note it does work on the 92 Dodge) , the non sealed beam headlights full of condensation. ..

Heck my rust bucket plow truck has fewer things that don't work than the 08. Well, maybe you can count the drivers side headlight falling out because the bucket rusted apart. Heat and wipers work. Gauges work, doors w or, windows work, lights work.

The only differences are the cosmetics and electronics like the rear park sensors, trunk closer etc that the Lincoln's have.

It started long ago on Nth American vehicles . . . was going to meet up friends at car show, 2hrs from home. Got call from buddy, asking me if I had spare voltage regulator for 70's Mopar . . sure I could bring with me - told me his 93 Cummins had no charge, and full field tested his alternator, and got full charge. So the regulator - which is built into the computer, was toast . . . no need to change the computer, just wire in external regulator and all is good . . . (yup, had the connector as well as the regulator) . . . fast forward to today - and yup, it will be the electronic modules that are going to kill the vehicles . . .

Electric cars are fine for short distances, but maybe this will re-vitalize local economies? Seems that more and more and more folks drive seriously long distances to shop, go out to eat, buy groceries, get mail, and even to work. With working from home increasing every day, and our infastructure crumbling away (bad roads, bridges, etc), maybe the younger generation will drive less? Long term, could benefit the car guys, as gasoline will be around for some time for older vehicles, lawn mowers, boats, motorcycles, trucks, etc. and may make our old school vehicles simply weekend vehicles for fun. Daily driver may be electric, fun weekend vehicles can run on fuel.

JS

My retirement car will be a mint 70s Nova 4 door or similar type vehi, I refuse to buy a new over priced over loaded vehi.that I wont be able to afford or repair,I currently have a mint 98 Neon 4 door with 28k on it that I paid $800 for needing a head gasket,I will always be able to find an older 4 door vehi.in very good condition Like this one.
https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/ram/pts/d/saint-paul-1968-plymouth-valiant/7302838355.html