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So i did a thing today. The Imperial will thank me.

Posted By: feets

So i did a thing today. The Imperial will thank me. - 10/10/20 01:53 AM

I did some pretty heavy soul searching on the Imperial engine project. My nerdy side had taken over and I got all caught up in making the engine as efficient as possible. Efficient engine means torque. It also means better fuel economy. Big torque also means lively performance and more fun to drive but focusing on that trades off horsepower. Digging back into my fuel and mileage records from the 2012 Power Tour (Dallas to Detroit and back) I saw that I was only getting 12 mpg.

I'd told myself a while back this was likely to be my last old school engine build. The new stuff is just too efficient and easy to get power out of. That's doubly true when you think of these old big blocks with what are essentially small block heads on them. Looking back at my engine builds I realized that I had done some fun stuff but never really built an engine with good parts. They'd always been a hodge podge of used factory bits with cams and other stuff bolted to them.

As for the car, it's only value is the engine. Without a 440/727/8.75 this car is little more than demo derby material. It's an organ donor on wheels.

Only after hours of soul searching and long deep conversation with close friends did the real me resurface.


The Imperial is going back on the road with 543 cubic inches of RB power. It's too late to talk me back from the edge. The money is spent. I'm going back to my happy place which is just a wee bit on the other side of bonkers. I was only fooling myself with all that adult supervision talk.

I ordered a 440 Source 543 kit with 10:1 compression on 88 CC heads. I'll call Comp and discuss a new cam for this build. The old Edelbrock heads that helped the 440 and TT440 will become the bottleneck in the build. Torque will be fierce but there's no way these heads will support over 600 hp naturally aspirated. The heads will likely limit rpm to something around 5500 before they strangle things. That's fine because piston speed will be excessive with the 4.5" stroke.

I'm not going all out. This will still be a relatively mild mannered build compatible with power brakes and a stock-ish converter. However, with the inches I can get away with a bit more cam.

The Headman headers I was looking at are going to be too small so I'll likely have to call TTI for something that fits properly and can handle the flow. There's plenty of room under the car for 3" exhaust.

It will be fun getting back to my maniacal side with something as absurd as an early 70s land yacht. Imagine the look on Mr Mustang's face when this old dinosaur picks on him. It's the Imperial! I'll be ahead of him and behind him at the same time. biggrin

I might be able to squeeze out 10 mpg if I behave myself. The OD would still be handy but could lead to bad ideas. The Imp was not designed for high speeds but it would certainly be capable. I'm not always on my best behavior as witnessed by my jaunt to the high side of 160 mph in the half-pint AMG this week.
Posted By: slantzilla

Re: So i did a thing today. The Imperial will thank me. - 10/10/20 02:01 AM

Sounds like a great project!
Posted By: 67vertman

Re: So i did a thing today. The Imperial will thank me. - 10/10/20 03:08 AM

Good deal Feets! You are going to love the Old school feel of an RB big block!
Posted By: Rhinodart

Re: So i did a thing today. The Imperial will thank me. - 10/10/20 03:25 AM

Good to hear! Why not twin turbo's...LOL
Posted By: feets

Re: So i did a thing today. The Imperial will thank me. - 10/10/20 03:31 AM

Originally Posted by Rhinodart
Good to hear! Why not twin turbo's...LOL


You don't know how many times I've heard that already. biggrin

I've got to keep a hint of normalcy to this thing and get it going again. There's another project waiting on me and I really want to start on it.
Posted By: Grizzly

Re: So i did a thing today. The Imperial will thank me. - 10/10/20 05:50 AM

Overdrive, period.

If a 5000+ pound 488 cu in 2wd V10 with 3.54's can get 15 mpg on the highway, so should the 440. twocents
Posted By: 360view

Re: So i did a thing today. The Imperial will thank me. - 10/10/20 11:11 AM

Originally Posted by Grizzly
Overdrive, period.

If a 5000+ pound 488 cu in 2wd V10 with 3.54's can get 15 mpg on the highway, so should the 440. twocents


Overdrive, Diff ratio, Low rolling resistance tires, Air Fuel ratio higher than 14.7, or alternatively custom controlled EGR,
can raise the fuel economy of a “Torque Monster” engine choice.

Nearly invisible aerodynamic tweaks underneath the car can help MPG too.
Posted By: GoodysGotaCuda

Re: So i did a thing today. The Imperial will thank me. - 10/10/20 12:14 PM

EFI + OD will seal the deal!
Posted By: feets

Re: So i did a thing today. The Imperial will thank me. - 10/10/20 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by GoodysGotaCuda
EFI + OD will seal the deal!


I'm going to mock up the factory intake, carb, and air cleaner for measurements. If the intake off the hot rod will fit it'll go on. The Holley Quadrajet Sniper won't feed this thing.
Posted By: Twostick

Re: So i did a thing today. The Imperial will thank me. - 10/10/20 01:33 PM

The Sniper Xflow is good for 800 hp. The Quadrajet one claims 650 hp.

Kevin
Posted By: feets

Re: So i did a thing today. The Imperial will thank me. - 10/10/20 03:49 PM

Originally Posted by Twostick
The Sniper Xflow is good for 800 hp. The Quadrajet one claims 650 hp.

Kevin


According to the Holley site the Q-jet only holds 500.
Posted By: Twostick

Re: So i did a thing today. The Imperial will thank me. - 10/10/20 09:37 PM

Originally Posted by feets
Originally Posted by Twostick
The Sniper Xflow is good for 800 hp. The Quadrajet one claims 650 hp.

Kevin


According to the Holley site the Q-jet only holds 500.


I saw it on a chart from their website which of course I can't find now... lol

Is there a reason you were going with the spread bore? The 4150 series seems to start at 650 hp and goes north from there.

Kevin
Posted By: feets

Re: So i did a thing today. The Imperial will thank me. - 10/10/20 09:45 PM

Originally Posted by Twostick
Originally Posted by feets
Originally Posted by Twostick
The Sniper Xflow is good for 800 hp. The Quadrajet one claims 650 hp.

Kevin


According to the Holley site the Q-jet only holds 500.


I saw it on a chart from their website which of course I can't find now... lol

Is there a reason you were going with the spread bore? The 4150 series seems to start at 650 hp and goes north from there.

Kevin


I wanted the sound of a TQ at full song. biggrin

No other reason.
Posted By: Twostick

Re: So i did a thing today. The Imperial will thank me. - 10/10/20 10:02 PM

Originally Posted by feets
Originally Posted by Twostick
Originally Posted by feets
Originally Posted by Twostick
The Sniper Xflow is good for 800 hp. The Quadrajet one claims 650 hp.

Kevin


According to the Holley site the Q-jet only holds 500.


I saw it on a chart from their website which of course I can't find now... lol

Is there a reason you were going with the spread bore? The 4150 series seems to start at 650 hp and goes north from there.

Kevin


I wanted the sound of a TQ at full song. biggrin

No other reason.


The 2x4 system should be close. laugh2

Kevin
Posted By: AndyF

Re: So i did a thing today. The Imperial will thank me. - 10/10/20 11:31 PM

Originally Posted by feets
Originally Posted by GoodysGotaCuda
EFI + OD will seal the deal!


I'm going to mock up the factory intake, carb, and air cleaner for measurements. If the intake off the hot rod will fit it'll go on. The Holley Quadrajet Sniper won't feed this thing.


You will most likely be fighting hood clearance the whole time. Probably need to use a Holley Strip Dominator intake with a Sniper XFlow to feed that engine.
Posted By: McCandlessboy

Re: So i did a thing today. The Imperial will thank me. - 10/11/20 12:07 AM

What year imperial?
Posted By: SattyNoCar

Re: So i did a thing today. The Imperial will thank me. - 10/11/20 12:24 AM

Originally Posted by McCandlessboy
What year imperial?


Pretty sure it's a '72. work
Posted By: topside

Re: So i did a thing today. The Imperial will thank me. - 10/11/20 12:34 AM

It'll be the only Imperial that needs Drag Radials !
Posted By: moparjim79

Re: So i did a thing today. The Imperial will thank me. - 10/11/20 12:57 AM

Was waiting to see what you would do, hoping you would go stroker. Glad you did. It won't be the first time someone's proves it can be done on the street when it doesn't make sense on paper..

I know you'll nail it!
Posted By: McCandlessboy

Re: So i did a thing today. The Imperial will thank me. - 10/11/20 02:07 AM

Really cool if it's a 72. I have 2 73's and we're going to do a budget build for a magazine with one of them. Looking forward to your build!
Posted By: topside

Re: So i did a thing today. The Imperial will thank me. - 10/11/20 02:47 AM

Hmmm...what about a build-off...the Feets NA big-motor Imp vs a McCandless twin-turbo Imp... stirthepot
Posted By: feets

Re: So i did a thing today. The Imperial will thank me. - 10/11/20 02:52 AM

Originally Posted by topside
Hmmm...what about a build-off...the Feets NA big-motor Imp vs a McCandless twin-turbo Imp... stirthepot


Not fair! I'm a poor boy flying solo through this world.

Besides, I have another project in the works that needs my attention.

Yeah, Big Scary is a 72 crew cab Imperial. A kid was walking past it at a cruise night. When I turned the ignition on the headlight doors slammed closed and the kid ran crying for his mother. biggrin

Attached picture Big Imp.jpg
Posted By: feets

Re: So i did a thing today. The Imperial will thank me. - 10/11/20 02:54 AM

Originally Posted by AndyF
Originally Posted by feets
Originally Posted by GoodysGotaCuda
EFI + OD will seal the deal!


I'm going to mock up the factory intake, carb, and air cleaner for measurements. If the intake off the hot rod will fit it'll go on. The Holley Quadrajet Sniper won't feed this thing.


You will most likely be fighting hood clearance the whole time. Probably need to use a Holley Strip Dominator intake with a Sniper XFlow to feed that engine.



Yeah, I don't think the old CH4B is going to flow enough to see this thing past 5000.
Posted By: GY3

Re: So i did a thing today. The Imperial will thank me. - 10/11/20 03:54 AM

Holley Street Dominator is the perfect intake for this. Mine was ported by Streetwize (Bobby) here on the board. Great low end throttle response, pulls hard to 6500 redline and fits under stock hoods easily.

I built really close to what you are doing save for the fact that mine is a 505. We took down a C7 'Vette rolling from 40mph on the highway tonight so it runs pretty good. grin

Your heads are easily cnc ported by Modern Cylinder Head and will match the big cubes perfectly if you are so inclined.

We've broken everything from the ears off the front driveshaft yoke to the rear u-joint to tearing up a brand new Mancini Racing cone type 3rd member so plan your drivetrain upgrades accordingly! 1350 joints are a requirement!

Posted By: feets

Re: So i did a thing today. The Imperial will thank me. - 10/11/20 05:17 AM

I don't plan on drag racing or running sticky tires so that should help things a bit. The 8-3/4 has a low mile TrueTrac I stuck in it and it runs the big U joints. Still, there's a double cardan joint in the drive shaft so I've got three joints to break. smile

This dinosaur won't be taking down C7s but it'll likely frighten a Mustang or two. It tipped the scales at 5300 lbs with half a tank of gas and an empty truck. All I can compare it to is the Mercedes S65. Those things are slightly lighter, have 704 lb/ft and 630 hp. They run bottom 12s with the 5 speed auto.
Posted By: McCandlessboy

Re: So i did a thing today. The Imperial will thank me. - 10/11/20 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by topside
Hmmm...what about a build-off...the Feets NA big-motor Imp vs a McCandless twin-turbo Imp... stirthepot


Haha no build offs! Just happy to see the big C bodies getting love. Hoping to show that you can do a really cool build for a reasonable budget. I just have to keep dad inline and not redo the entire car. We're gathering pieces now and have to finish up a 60 plymouth wagon first. We'll bring it out in the spring/summer of next year.
Posted By: feets

Re: So i did a thing today. The Imperial will thank me. - 10/11/20 09:16 PM

I might need to change the cam. Dyno software is showing 605 lb/ft available at 2000 rpm. Maybe I can move that out a wee bit. biggrin
Posted By: Ramrod39

Re: So i did a thing today. The Imperial will thank me. - 10/12/20 12:13 AM

Yep Kevin, you're nuts. I love it. up
Posted By: feets

Re: So i did a thing today. The Imperial will thank me. - 10/12/20 02:21 AM

Originally Posted by Ramrod39
Yep Kevin, you're nuts. I love it. up


My nuts? You love them?

Not supposed to tell everyone! That's embarrassing!

biggrin
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