Schumacher Creative - Engine-swaps.com - what happened?

Anyone personally familiar with whats going on over at Schumacher Creative Services? They own Engine-swaps.com. Their online store is out of stock on all items, and there was an issue with the store in early January. Just wondering if anyone has heard from these folks - great products and I've been buying stuff there over 25+ years.

Been wondering myself

I need a set of mounts for my 65 Cuda, I emailed a month ago and got a bounce.

I talked to the owner last year and he was having health issues. I don't know exactly what happened but I assume his issues got worse and he isn't able to run the business anymore. A small business like that usually can't keep going if the owner/operator gets sick.

Their Facebook page has this message, dated 14 March:

This same thing happened when Larry of 'MotorcycleLarry' passed. His daughter tried but orders were paid for but never shipped. I know of 25 bike riders that paid but had to fight PayPal to recover money but a few used Debit cars and may never recover.

They haven't responded to that e-mail, for me anyway. There are people on FABO that are out money for parts ordered. A business that has no parts, and now the phones are down Well, I wouldn't hold my breath about getting any parts. Nor would I send them any money. If you are local and can get your part in hand and pay for it face to face, great. I've been trying to get one of their torque straps for over a year, and finally decided to fab one of my own.

Me neither. I was looking for 340 motor mounts, and luckily I found the last set Rhino had.

Are they still in Seattle? Can't somebody local check on them?

I heard they were done, guess it was correct...

One of my friends called him last fall and got the information that he sold out as a part of a larger group of companies. He was hopeful that new owners would restart the business, but that seems to have not been the case.

Does anyone else carry his Tri-Y headers?

People on Facebook asking about Schumacher that need early B motormounts have been getting referred to Crossram Connection.

Anyone else sell mounts that allow a late model 5.9 to go in 68 Abody?

Shouldn't that be the same as the 340 mounts?

If so transdapt makes a kit that will put it in a 68 A body that had a slant six.

If it's already a V8 car you existing mounts will work with a spacer on the driver's side if it's a 273/318 otherwise if it's a 340 then you can just use those.

I wonder if anyone is producing those tri-y headers. Don't need them, but always thought it was a neat product.

I have a set on a 65 Sport Fury and love them. Easy fit and nice performance with no leaks.

BUMMER!!! Great products. Hopefully someone will pick them up

About a month ago I talked to him and he said he was giving it up and moving near the water

[quote=bobby66]I wonder if anyone is producing those tri-y headers.

Stan's makes mid-length for small block

http://www.stans-headers.com/Photos/399Y.jpg

I wonder if anybody is selling there Torque Straps.

That sucks. Hopefully someone takes up the business. I'll run it, but the commute would kill me!

I have been trying to locate the big block mount kit for a 92 Dakota for about 3 years now.

I spoke to Shumacher about them when I first stated looking because Mancini still listed them, but when I placed the order it was canceled.

When I talked to Shumacher he really didn't seem to care that people were looking for the parts. And stated he had no intention to produce any.

I also asked him if he would consider selling the design so I could get a set made, and he just flat out refused.

I know there are a lot of guys looking for the 1st gen Dakota mounts. I can understand that they may not have sold well when he first produced them 15-20 years ago. But now that the Dakota is a cheap to get and popular little truck, this is the time to have the kits.

If anyone knows of a company that is selling the kits please post it.

I've got one that's just sitting on the shelf. I mocked up the engine and got it running back in 05. Then I met my future wife and the truck sat in the garage until last fall. I pulled everything off the truck and sold it to a friend who needed the frame. I've got the engine/frame brackets and mounts, the trans bracket and mount, oil pan/pickup, exhaust manifolds, exhaust pipes and two piece driveshaft.(extended cab) PM me.

I need to put a magnum 360 into a 68 A body and I understand one of the mounts needs a triangle shaped piece w a hole in it added to one of mounts....When I modify one for mine, I'm thinking about making more of them....Any interest? They guy that was doing this years ago has stopped. He was charging $55. I think $75 would be fair today.....

If somebody has a kit they should get it to somebody who will reproduce them. Maybe the company that makes the frame caps?

Its been 18 years since I talked to Mike Schumacher. I bought a few items over the years. Back then he did not show the desire for the biz anymore. Sometimes a person will just walk away.

Not sure if he patented or trademarked any items. If not and he does not want to make any....

Last I heard they were cutting back on a lot of their items too and that was before the pandemic started.

Has anyone heard if someone else might start making new engine mount kits? Can't find anything to put a 426 hemi in an E body unless you have a hemi K frame.

He quit and moved to the coast

Al Debevic in Wisconsin makes hemi k-frames, you can also get them through Megaparts I believe...

Wish he would have sold it to someone or something.

Doesn't sound like it made much money if he gave up on it that easy

Or it made so much money he can retire in style.

I tried to buy the business but we could not come up with a deal we were both happy with.

So he shut the doors and didn't get a dime for the business, instead of working out a deal with you? Makes no sense...

Maybe he was like one of those guys with a rotting classic car that wanted top dollar or he'd just crush it to spite people?
I bought a few things from him. Great quality. He filled a need that many of us still have.

I've talked to a couple of different guys who talked to Mike about buying his business. They all said he was unrealistic on the price. I have no interest in the business but I could easily duplicate some of the stuff he was making. I guess if nobody buys the business I'll eventually take a look at making some of the swap parts since people really need those brackets. I have a BB A-body car, I have a CAD station and I have a press brake so I pretty much everything I need to build swap brackets.

You don't buy a business like that unless he has a bazillion hours tied up in exotic jigs and engineering time that you can't figure out yourself. Its engine mounts and not space station components so someone with steel fab skills can make those happen if they have something to copy from.

About half of his stuff is what I would call ‘common parts’ that were replacement for factory parts. The rest were for basic hotrod applications. The common parts could be made by anyone and will be easy for someone to make. The hotrod parts may be a source for someone wanting to branch out in making specialty parts. I don’t see a patten being put on those, so I bet we will soon see a bunch of Chinese knock-offs in the near future.

He obviously decided he didn't need the money and/or maybe was not inclined for others to make money off his designs/efforts from over the years.

What may not make sense to us, did for him, is the best takeaway at his point.

One thing to consider, If he sells the business and the buyer turns out to be less ambiguous, or has a different perspective on how to treat people, anything the new owner does gets laid on the first guy's reputation and his name gets drug into the dirt, and the guy that bought the business probably get by with little trouble. Understand, I'm not in the least saying anyone that has attempted to buy the business would do such a thing, but as a former business owner, that sort of thing is always a chance you take if you sell to someone else. I closed my business without even considering selling it. I built my business, and anyone else would most likely run it differently then I did, good or bad. By closing it, I know no one is going to tarnish my name, should things go astray. If someone wants to start from scratch, then what they build will be about them.

So many think producing the parts Schumacher produced is so easy, it shouldn't take very long before someone fills the gap, and the previous owner still has his good name intact that was built on his reputation. The new guy (S?) can build their own reputation to stand on. Instead of investing money in the Schumacher name the new people can invest in designs, material, equipment, advertising, and man power to produce the new kits. Gene

I have sold a well respected business, it was re sold a second time, both new owners were rather inept and more, and my professional reputation was only enhanced by their shortcomings, as the differences were stark. Maybe I was lucky or they were not slick enough to somehow place some blame on me.

I worked for a business that was sold to a new owner and that guy ruined it and bankrupted himself within a year or so. I quit before it fell apart. If the new owner doesn't have people skills it won't matter how nice the product is. Word will get out and it'll tank eventually

This motor mount business make sense for someone who already has the tools and ability to take it on and add it to whatever they are already selling. If a non-car guy buys it just looking to get his investment back and nothing else then good luck.

Kudos to you.

AndyF would be one of the very few people that I know of in the Mopar community able to do this and you would KNOW it's a correct, quality, power coated product.

I think trans Dapt has probably taken some of his A body business.

https://www.jegs.com/i/Trans-Dapt/969/4697/10002/-1
https://www.jegs.com/i/Trans-Dapt/969/4695/10002/-1

Holley and others have taken some of his Gen 3 business.

Don't know if it is true, but have read rumors he may have been associated with Imperial services in Frankenmuth...if true
that may have been related to delivery issues as they aren't know for being a lightning speed
high volume kind of a supplier.

I had gotten the impression that Schumacher bought the rights to produce Imperial Service's products, or was the exclusive distributor. Imperial had no influence over any other aspect of the business.

The loss of the Imperial Services products really hurts the Pre-1965 Mopar crowd...but there are other options if you seek them out.

Sounds correct. I had the rubber trans conversion mount to bolt a later 727 in an early B body that I got from Schumacher and, as I recall, it had the Imperial Services logo on it.

However, I believe the Schumacher offerings already met those quality goals, and the owner decided evidently not to continue, for reasons unknown, and I'm sure profitability played a part, so Andy will have to accept the same financial compromise, or increase his pricing on the same items, or reduce his manufacturing costs some way like going offshore, increasing efficiency by increasing sold product, or streamlining manufacturing, etc, or some combination. Meaning a replacement source would be fantastic for the hobby, but expecting things to remain the same, will be a stretch.

I'm sure there are sets of these mounts around that we can send to AndyF to make a pattern from. I have a set of gen 3 hemi spool mounts and a set of 340/360 spool mounts I can loan him if it's something he may want to do.

I know several people who shut down when they quit their business instead of selling. For all of them it wasn't about the money they didn't want to see their business run into the ground.

Part of the reason when consulting with new business ventures I ALWAYS suggested that that owners NEVER have their name within the DBA company/coporate name/logo.

Make the association much easier to distance after a sale.

And NEVER EVER EVER EVER personally finance the sale of a business to new owner... EVER!!!! It's a recipe for heartache. Seen too many that see a fraction of the financed amount actually paid. Most go default and lose everything.

THIS!!!! Most who want a business have nothing, if you back them you will both have nothing, might as well knock it in the head on your own.

What you describe is "bad dealing making" IMO, its possible if the deal is properly structured, a default by the buyer can be advantageous to the seller. I speak from experience.
So if you can't cut a self protective deal, follow the "never,ever......." advice.
Nothing in business is without risk.

It really depends on the business...if internet based it is a lot easier to take it back and get it running again. A brick and mortar business, that produces product, has quality standards, and a reputation, is near impossible to rebuild after a sale and failure, you can remake, or reinvent it, but it will never go back to what you had. It also takes $$$$$, the reason you sold it in the first place. Then you get to deal with the customers bitching because of what happened, you can have the same guy making the same product and the customer will say, it is not the same, you changed something.

Some of us arent making Mopar parts to get rich [me raising hand]

And I agree Schmacher did a quality part.

The thing about Mopars is the volumes are SO small that its cost effect for a small company to make 5 of these at a time AND charge a bit of a premium.

Are his products patented. That could be opening a can of worms.

Getting a patent is costly.
Enforcing a patent is almost cost prohibitive.
For a small business they are mainly for ego and a deterrence to the less informed.
So in my eyes, no real can of worms, and Andy for example with his legal background, likely already knows the loopholes.

You sound like your business ethics are of the highest order!

Sarcasm off.

If AndyF doesn't start fabricating some products, I wonder if there's any possibility of FirmFeel picking up some of the design and manufacturing of the gap in the market?

You appear to be prone to confirmation bias, no sarcasm needed.

I'm pretty sure that motor mounts meet the "simple and obvious" exception to a patent. It is just a bent piece of steel with a rubber or poly isolator. People have been making them for at least 100 years. I'd be very surprised if the patent office granted Schumacher patents on any of his designs. I'm sure his business name is copyrighted but I wouldn't want to try and steal his name or counterfeit his packaging like the Chinese do.

If I decided to make swap brackets I'd sell them as AR Engr products. I'd start with a clean sheet of paper and design the bracket from the ground up without copying anything that Schumacher designed. If he sued me I'd stop making the brackets. The Mopar market isn't big enough to justify a lawsuit. Patent attorneys aren't going to get excited over winning a few thousand dollars in damages.

I would like to see his tri-Y headers make a comeback. Nice application for some vehicles.

There is a term in U.S. patent application called "prior art". If it's obvious or just a variation of something already in existence, it can't be patented.

"Loopholes", for the ethically sensitive.

Good news, USCT Motorsports has been licensed to produce Schumacher's products.

http://store.uscartool.com/

theres a guy on facebook making conversion mounts.. not all the styles yet be he says he is busy as hell..

after what those clowns did to a friends car i'd have to be desperate to buy anything from them..

Its an aftermarket motor mount for a Chrysler product, the judge would laugh.

Are they going to be making the Torque Straps?

US car tool is making them now ... www.usctmotorsports.com

Where? I can't find anything

You would have to call them they have not updated the website yet..but, its true

Thanks, I think I got the last new original Schumacher mount for my 65 on the planet, found it in Canada.