I thought they knew how to weld

Back in 2013, I had a very reputable Midwest shop, known for its axles, narrow my B-body 8-3/4 housing to A-body width and true it up, install a back brace, and put the perches in the stock A-body position. The car has five miles on dirt roads, remember.

Today I was installing traction bars. As I took off the left shock plate... the perch fell right off. They had made a decent looking weld with absolutely no penetration into the axle tube! The right side has a large crack too, and I'm sure it's not any better attached.

So I spent some more time removing the housing from the car. Off to the local welding shop tomorrow (they DO know how to weld). I sure hope the same moron didn't do the back brace, or worse yet, the ends...

I'd be double checking EVERYTHING they 'welded'.......


Are they the same shop that did this infamous Dart? (be sure to mute out their cackling)

The pictures of those welds show a total lack of penetration including the ones that appear to be on your back brace ? You should make sure whomever does the re- welding has a jig to keep the housing straight as it WILL bow with the heat.

Those welds look very cold to me, not a good thing with a mig welder.

Weld looks very cold. It's really frustrating to pay someone for poor work. I did that not too long at a muffler shop that was tasked to do something simple.

And another famous one

OUCH!!!!

and again

OUCH 2

That first "OUCH" is the Camaro I was thinking of

Fortunately with a leaf-spring suspension, the entire rear can't come out of the car if the perches break off.
But it could spin in the U-bolts... break the rear U-joint and probably the pinion & case, beat the #$% out of the floor pan, possibly damage the four-speed.
So I'm glad I found it now, rather than on a hard launch someday!

Some times the factories don't do much better. My brother in law bought a 78 Ramcharger brand new. 10 years later he was using it off road and the factory welded spring perch separated from the axle housing. The Ramcharger went sideways, and slid back down the hill he was climbing. Fortunately the RC didn't roll over and test the factory roll bar. Same issue, cold weld.

I think the problem is compounded by the guys that cry out about warping a housing when welding the perches on, and too many try to avoid the supposedly warpage by turning down the amperage when welding. I can say I've welded a lot of spring perches onto axle tubes in my days, and have never had a problem with warped axle tubes. Weld the perches on with the correct amperage and be done with it. The small amount of warp that may occur will cause a lot less damage then the damage a failed weld will cause. Gene

Poorboy, you nailed it, too much penetration and you have a very nice warped housing, too little ,and you get to post on Moparts.

Its also the perfect storm for warpage, all the welding on one side only of a tube , and with a thicker piece of steel that needs more heat then base metal for welding

The weld IMO should have been wrapped around the perch ends, and I suspect this weld failure was visible upon close inspection over time, there was a warning/

the main lesson here, check all welds, regularly, if the are important..

Nobody is perfect.

Baloney. The main lesson is that a well-known rear end place with a good reputation, and that I paid a significant amount of money to do it right, screwed up!
This is a routine job for them and I should not have to follow along second-guessing the professionals.
Weld the perches, weld the back brace, then put the housing ends on, and everything lines up.
But thanks for the victim-blaming.

Did I read "Traction bars" in the opening post ?
Oh...Where was there any "Victim blaming" other than a suggestion to check welds?

name the shop man...

-------------Exactly, Whoever "welded" that is not a welder and could never be. employed as a welder. That weld is to cold and the guy who did do is inexperienced.
This is the problem with using MIG, workers pick up a MIG gun do some poor welding and think they know the trade, ive seen it more times than I can remember, Id have stick wielded that, wrapped the ends as another member mentioned. The tube would rip off before the weld breaks.

When I bought my 1977 Volare new in '76, the first time I changed oil I was shocked. The K-member halves were welded together with what appeared to be the MIG process and there were literally hundreds of "starts" the full length of the weld. Looked like a pincushion. That and undercoating on the bottom of the dash....this was not Chrysler's finest hour.

I emailed them last night too. Waiting to see their response first.
But you'll recognize the name.

I suck at welding but my first call was also Cold Weld. Gee, if I can say that it is bad.

I had mine heli-arced by a guy who used to weld up top fuel frames. I have access to a mig welder and know people who weld much better than me, but sought out the best guy and welding setup I could find for that job. If those come loose it can tear up a lot of stuff.

Everybody lives in their own world, some smaller then others I guess.
Trust but verify is in mine.

I picked up my homemade subframe connectors this morning at the local weld & fab shop. They did a nice job welding the front plates on, and powder coated them chassis-black too, total of $75.

I dropped off the rear end housing - they were appalled at the quality of the perch "welds" too. They do know how to jig and clamp rears to prevent warping (and the back brace should help prevent any movement).
Should be done tomorrow

i would rather have a hot weld with a hint of undercut, instead of a nice looking one just laying on top.
the old lincoln "tombstone" welders are great if you do stick welding. i bought mine on sale for $19.95 [with a free wheel kit] back around 1968 from the old aldon's catalog.

A loose and/or spinning housing can split a factory fuel tank pretty easily and create a substantial fire. Nothing to fool with. Takes a pretty decent welder to make enough heat to get that stuff put together correctly.

A welded brace WILL bow the housing regardless being in a jig. The trick is to pull and hold the housing in the opposite direction the correct amount when welding it. Once cool, it will relax back to where it should be, if it was done correctly.

I am also continually amazed how many guys think their little 110 volt welder they got from Harbor Freight will do the job just fine.
I ran a welding shop for 25 years. if you came into my shop it was welded with a Mig welder. The old Lincoln tombstone sat back in the corner, under the bench.
I would say probably 80% of the work I did was repair broken poorly done welds. This is nothing new. Gene

This is why I don't weld, a mans got to know his limitations.

Well said, welding and painting are things I only do when it's realistic for me, and usually only when both are hidden from sight or can't really fail.

I'm curious to see how they respond to OPs email.

I think the thread makes sense in terms of how bad the quality was for a shop that should do better.

But it doesn't mean someone couldn't do a good job on them at their home, even if they're not an expert welder. I think especially back in the day, more often then not people did this in their garage or driveway without the perches falling off some time later, and without ever seeing any effect of a warped housing.

It's not that hard if you have the right settings and prep. That makes what this shop put out there even more egregious.

Thank you... that is exactly the point I was trying to make
The local shop will be doing it tomorrow. As someone already mentioned, welding and painting are best left to others. Definitely in my case.

Incidentally, I asked Cass (Dr. Diff) about this mess and he said, "I would break the other spring perch off and weld new ones on. You won't warp the tubes".
I figure he knows what he's talking about

My friend tore the spring perches off his '85 W-150 while doing a burn out. The pinion spun straight up and separated the driveshaft at the slip joint. The OEM welds did not penetrate the tubes. I'm surprised it didn't happen years earlier.

You guys are missing the lesson here.

NOBODY can defend these welds.

Even a good looking weld can be problematic.

Obviously in this case as already understood by many a good welder has to balance a fine line between warpage and proper penetration.

Nobody has yet mentioned the fact there was zero weld joint prep, a 45Deg chamfer?

Being a minimal l trained welder does not qualify one to inspect welds definitively, especially ones that they did not weld themselves.

But this is were the wheels come off (pun intended):

In most cases in regular use, nobody needs to spend much time inspecting OEM welds.

This was a weld that is effectively non redundant and risks possible catastrophic outcome in failure.

Our uses are not "regular", our modifications are not OEM tested or designed, therefore anything "we" weld should be suspect, forever.

The OP's welds looked like crap from day one.

They did not wrap around the top of the perch, the highest stressed welded area.

Nobody can convince me the entire welded perch weld failed the second the u bolt was removed.

Most likely it failed slowly over time.

Any weld exposed to the elements that is incrementally failing often shows warning signs, visible cracks, rust stains, etc.

The mistake here is these signs were not spotted.

Why is for the OP (or victim?) to address.

I do my own welds, and I check every one, forever.

Whatever Dr D says concerning anything automotive is gospel for me. A real gentleman.
He helped me when everyone couldn't
The weld as posted if you notice did not penetrate the edges of the perch. That edge should not be visible as the weld should have penetrated it.
A common mistake of beginers is not "catching" what your welding. In the case of theses perches in addition to being way to cold which results in no penetration, whoever welded theses perches just played down a bead next to the perch. He had almost no weld on the perch which shows me he wasn't watching what he was doing.
Ive told so many guys to catch both parts. Even if the person who welded this was inexperienced if he or she had the amperage turned up and caught the perches, the weld most likely would have held.
Anything welded on any vehicle driven on roadways has to be properly done, this thread is a perfect example of this.
While im no Mopar expert, I am a journeyman union Boilermaker or was as im retired now

The plot thickens...

I heard back from the original shop.



I have the same invoices, having saved every receipt for 22 years. Nothing showing any welding/moving perches, and it only makes sense that if the housing were being narrowed, back-braced, ends cut off and rewelded for alignment, that I'd have had them do the perches then! Very strange

Anyhow the local fab shop removed both, cleaned them up and re-welded them (securely) and I hung it back under the Dart. Next week the chunk will return and I'll reinstall the axles. Hopefully everything will just slide in

IMO, a giveaway would be if any of the paperwork shows an specific (vs say Narrow "X" inches) dim for the housing. If so they also would likely incldue a specific dim for the ctr to ctr perch location. If the Perch dim is not on an invoice that had a new housing dim, I would lean towards the feeling your original vendor did not reattach the perches, some one else did.
I have in the past welded up a housing, and left the perches off, in order to test fit and to get the perch exact dim/location and angle, and then welded them later, so two welders involved in your saga is possible as I see it. First vendor might need an internet "nevermind".

edir: on further reflection, ttis new info might explain a lot, for instance, why the perches were not prepped (45Deg chamber), that the weld was done on the car, over head, out of position, and restricted access, the weld area might have been contaminated by paint/rust, all items a pro welder would have resisted, and a novice would not.

post pics of the new welds when you get it back..

My factory weld broke like that. If you run something like Cal-Tracs or similar there is lots of extra load on the perches. The perches Calvert Racing sells are well priced and super strong, no worries once those are properly welded on. Even welded on right the stock perches can fold over on the back.

If the "quality' of the welds on the back brace and housing ends look like the perches then there is your answer. Would not surprise me if they did screw up to not take ownership of it.

That did occur to me also, but the housing ends do look properly welded. And so far they have not fallen off.

Hard to tell with the back brace - it looks good except for the end tacks (that you noted in the pics), but it is definitely possible to have a nice looking bead just lying on the surface.
I'll have to see if it cracks or pops off with a few good launches.


Anyhow, there's no way I would have told them to only "remove the perches"... how was I supposed to put the housing back under the car then?

Although I'd have rather not spent the $$$ by forgetting the gear lube and ruining a brand new Dr. Diff center section, the silver lining is that I found the defective welds before anything spun and did ugly things. I had planned to install the traction bars at some later date after putting some miles on the car...

Bolt it in unwelded, determine and set the pinion angle, then tack the housing to the perches. Remove housing and take to a bona-fide welder to finish welding the perches.

Thanks, but I meant it to be clearly a rhetorical question.
I already knew what my pinion angle was, and didn't want it changed, just the perches moved from stock B-body, to A-body with 3" spring relocation.

No experienced fab/weld shop would relocate the perches only based on the above info, and additionally, they would want it (angle in degrees and perch ctr to ctr dim and if any offset is desired) in writing, to eliminate potential call backs. The members previous reply on tack welding is the tried and true method.

Seems like the story is still missing some details, and since I'm newly on the OP's Ignore list, I don't have any issue with "pulling the curtain back".

So nobody quote me here.