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71 Road Runner / GTX Air Grabber Hood cars- Hood Paint

Posted By: MONC

71 Road Runner / GTX Air Grabber Hood cars- Hood Paint - 11/21/11 04:43 PM

Does the ends of the hood where the black air grabber insert end get painted black ( if so what texture) on Road Runners AND GTX s in 71?

Or is it a model thing? I have seen it done on both, but not sure if this is due to an incorrectly restored vehicle or it was done from the factory this way.

Also, what color were louvers if they were so equipped? Were they always body colored ? Or only available with vinyl top, and always black?
Posted By: MOPARMIKE69

Re: 71 Road Runner / GTX Air Grabber Hood cars- Hood Paint - 11/21/11 05:07 PM

Like this?

Attached picture 6929422-NewPaint71GTX122.jpg
Posted By: MOPARMIKE69

Re: 71 Road Runner / GTX Air Grabber Hood cars- Hood Paint - 11/21/11 05:08 PM

Another

Attached picture 6929425-NewPaint71GTX192.jpg
Posted By: MONC

Re: 71 Road Runner / GTX Air Grabber Hood cars- Hood Paint - 11/21/11 05:22 PM

Little tough to see with the car painted black but yes.
I see that is a GTX.

From what I have seen lately, I don't see that paint getting extended at the end towards the windshield on the Road Runners with A/G hoods.
Posted By: rrbrucea

Re: 71 Road Runner / GTX Air Grabber Hood cars- Hood Paint - 11/21/11 05:46 PM

Some colors got the paint on the hood itself other colors did not. Unfortunately I can't tell you which did and which didn't.

Attached picture 6929470-RRAbove.jpg
Posted By: 6bblgt

Re: 71 Road Runner / GTX Air Grabber Hood cars- Hood Paint - 11/21/11 06:27 PM

In '71, I believe, all RR & GTX with an "AIR GRABBER" have V21 & the (organisol?) black scheme continued on the vent area of the hood.

Louvers were limited to a small number of colors & black - they were NOT available with the "full" vinyl top.
Posted By: rrbrucea

Re: 71 Road Runner / GTX Air Grabber Hood cars- Hood Paint - 11/21/11 06:36 PM

I don't think that's correct. Curious Yellow is one color I think did NOT get the hood paint like this example.

Attached picture 6929543-plymouth-roadrunner-1971b.jpg
Posted By: RJS

Re: 71 Road Runner / GTX Air Grabber Hood cars- Hood Paint - 11/21/11 10:16 PM

If the car has the V21 option it gets painted like the air grabber...
Posted By: rrbrucea

Re: 71 Road Runner / GTX Air Grabber Hood cars- Hood Paint - 11/21/11 10:28 PM

Quote:

If the car has the V21 option it gets painted like the air grabber...




Gotcha, so not all cars got the V21... Obviously.
Posted By: RJS

Re: 71 Road Runner / GTX Air Grabber Hood cars- Hood Paint - 11/21/11 10:35 PM

V21 is Performance hood paint and an option
May be HEMI std. but never owned one so don't know. Ron
Posted By: MONC

Re: 71 Road Runner / GTX Air Grabber Hood cars- Hood Paint - 11/22/11 12:02 AM

Ah, so the key is it has to have the V21 code with the A/G option.
So no V21 no stripe at the end .
Does this also include the stripes at the back of the exhaust, or is that a separate code?
Posted By: Moparlar

Re: 71 Road Runner / GTX Air Grabber Hood cars- Hood Paint - 11/22/11 12:15 AM

I looked at my 72 today and it looks like the back of the hood was painted as well as the cowl area inside the hood gasket.

Larry
Posted By: Butterscotch71

Re: 71 Road Runner / GTX Air Grabber Hood cars- Hood Paint - 11/22/11 01:50 AM

Link to the roadrunnernest showing paint colors for louvers (all other colors got flat black louvers).
http://www.roadrunnernest.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=485

Agree with others, V21 indicated the hood blackout behind the AG bubble (although I've seen a few cars not coded V21 that did have the paint blackout).

The rear bumper/valance blackout was part of the A87 package on road runners and separately coded M75 on GTXs
Posted By: xs29j8

Re: 71 Road Runner / GTX Air Grabber Hood cars- Hood Paint - 11/22/11 03:32 AM

...

Attached picture 6930363-SatPaintAirgrabberHood.jpg
Posted By: MONC

Re: 71 Road Runner / GTX Air Grabber Hood cars- Hood Paint - 11/22/11 07:07 PM

That illustration appears to indicate that ALL 71 air grabber cars , regardless of V21 code code the hood blackout treatment in the rear of the hood ( unless I missed something in the details of that drawing)...
Posted By: Butterscotch71

Re: 71 Road Runner / GTX Air Grabber Hood cars- Hood Paint - 11/23/11 01:44 AM

where do you see it indicate the paint blackout is correct for all air grabber cars?
Posted By: MONC

Re: 71 Road Runner / GTX Air Grabber Hood cars- Hood Paint - 11/23/11 02:47 AM

Quote:

where do you see it indicate the paint blackout is correct for all air grabber cars?



In the lower right hand corner it says " PAINT - AIR GRABBER HOOD"
I interpret that to mean the extended paint at the end of the hood towards the windshield is part of the air grabber hood package.

Unless I missed something, or someone else has another illustration or documentation that says otherwise...
Posted By: MOPARMIKE69

Re: 71 Road Runner / GTX Air Grabber Hood cars- Hood Paint - 11/23/11 02:43 PM

Quote:

Quote:

where do you see it indicate the paint blackout is correct for all air grabber cars?



In the lower right hand corner it says " PAINT - AIR GRABBER HOOD"
I interpret that to mean the extended paint at the end of the hood towards the windshield is part of the air grabber hood package.

Unless I missed something, or someone else has another illustration or documentation that says otherwise...


Using your logic that means that there should be a plymouth on every air grabber hood car. There isn't, see attached. The hood paint extention was a coded option. Just because it had a air grabber didn't mean it also got the additional hood paint.

Attached picture 6932501-NewPaint71GTX192.jpg
Posted By: xs29j8

Re: 71 Road Runner / GTX Air Grabber Hood cars- Hood Paint - 11/23/11 05:03 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

where do you see it indicate the paint blackout is correct for all air grabber cars?



In the lower right hand corner it says " PAINT - AIR GRABBER HOOD"
I interpret that to mean the extended paint at the end of the hood towards the windshield is part of the air grabber hood package.

Unless I missed something, or someone else has another illustration or documentation that says otherwise...


Using your logic that means that there should be a plymouth on every air grabber hood car. There isn't, see attached. The hood paint extention was a coded option. Just because it had a air grabber didn't mean it also got the additional hood paint.



My Engineering background is with aircraft, but here goes...

The "Plymouth" badging seems to be the feature controlled by sales codes (A93) and possibly year or mid-year effectivity breaks. I cannot clearly read all the effectivity modifier text, or some of the text in the revision block... maybe someone else following this thread can.

Since there appears that there are no effectivity modifiers on the callouts for the paint application, my guess is that all Air Grabber equipped cars would have had it...

Attached picture 6932689-____SatPaintAirgrabberHood_X.jpg
Posted By: Butterscotch71

Re: 71 Road Runner / GTX Air Grabber Hood cars- Hood Paint - 11/23/11 06:36 PM

I have copies of all the 71 B body stripe/paint engineering drawings. As I recall, they don't necessarily tell you when it is correct to apply the decals or stripes, but do indicate how to correctly apply them when needed.
Bottom line is some cars did not come through with the area behind the bubble painted...and I have many fender tags on file both with and without V21 for N96 cars.
Also, I have details for stripes that were never factory installed on cars (obviously discontinued before production).
Posted By: Moparlar

Re: 71 Road Runner / GTX Air Grabber Hood cars- Hood Paint - 11/23/11 06:38 PM

Did painting the back of the hood also mean painting the cowl area under the vents black sorta of like when they black out behind the grilles.

Larry
Posted By: Butterscotch71

Re: 71 Road Runner / GTX Air Grabber Hood cars- Hood Paint - 11/23/11 06:49 PM

Quote:

Did painting the back of the hood also mean painting the cowl area under the vents black sorta of like when they black out behind the grilles.

Larry



That should be the case, although I believe dark colors did not get the cowl blackout....I' have to check, but I believe the factory engineering docs do indicate which colors did (didn't) require the blackout.
Posted By: flypaper

Re: 71 Road Runner / GTX Air Grabber Hood cars- Hood Paint - 11/23/11 06:58 PM

Quote:


Also, I have details for stripes that were never factory installed on cars (obviously discontinued before production).



that would be very interesting to see..
any way to share??
Posted By: xs29j8

Re: 71 Road Runner / GTX Air Grabber Hood cars- Hood Paint - 11/23/11 07:02 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Did painting the back of the hood also mean painting the cowl area under the vents black sorta of like when they black out behind the grilles.

Larry



That should be the case, although I believe dark colors did not get the cowl blackout....I' have to check, but I believe the factory engineering docs do indicate which colors did (didn't) require the blackout.



The cowl blackout was for all cars, regardless of hood type or hood paint... except for colors listed on the attached drawing.

Attached picture 6932858-CowlBlackout.jpg
Posted By: xs29j8

Re: 71 Road Runner / GTX Air Grabber Hood cars- Hood Paint - 11/23/11 07:04 PM

Quote:

Quote:


Also, I have details for stripes that were never factory installed on cars (obviously discontinued before production).



that would be very interesting to see..
any way to share??



No, sharing is not allowed...

Attached picture 6932864-Cancelled72PlyBodySideStripe.jpg
Posted By: xs29j8

Re: 71 Road Runner / GTX Air Grabber Hood cars- Hood Paint - 11/23/11 07:06 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:


Also, I have details for stripes that were never factory installed on cars (obviously discontinued before production).



that would be very interesting to see..
any way to share??



No, sharing is not allowed...



Strictly forbidden...

Attached picture 6932868-Cancelled71SEStripe.jpg
Posted By: xs29j8

Re: 71 Road Runner / GTX Air Grabber Hood cars- Hood Paint - 11/23/11 07:15 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:


Also, I have details for stripes that were never factory installed on cars (obviously discontinued before production).



that would be very interesting to see..
any way to share??



No, sharing is not allowed...



Strictly forbidden...



Don't try to change my mind...

Attached picture 6932881-ei031.jpg
Posted By: xs29j8

Re: 71 Road Runner / GTX Air Grabber Hood cars- Hood Paint - 11/23/11 07:22 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:


Also, I have details for stripes that were never factory installed on cars (obviously discontinued before production).



that would be very interesting to see..
any way to share??



No, sharing is not allowed...



Strictly forbidden...



Don't try to change my mind...





Attached picture 6932886-ei039.jpg
Posted By: 6bblgt

Re: 71 Road Runner / GTX Air Grabber Hood cars- Hood Paint - 11/23/11 08:03 PM

On the engineering drawings -
0 = all
**** so the "MODEL" line would read G/R-0-23 1971/Plymouth B-body-ALL-2 door hardtop RM23 (Road Runner) & RS23 (GTX)

$ = extra-cost OPTION

I also agree that the drawing & Plymouth's "intent" was to have the vent area of the "AIR GRABBER" hood (behind the insert) painted with "organisol". The issue that is clouding the topic is V21 or "our" interpretation of what it is.

1 - I can find no evidence of V21 being an orderable OPTION (with or without cost)
2 - It is included with OPTION A87 $85.60 on Road Runners - "Road Runner Decor package"
3 - Road Runners & GTXs were assembled at 3 different plants in '71 - coding differed from plant-to-plant & during the year

Attached picture 6932927-6932689-____SatPaintAirgrabberHood_X.jpg
Posted By: xs29j8

Re: 71 Road Runner / GTX Air Grabber Hood cars- Hood Paint - 11/23/11 08:17 PM

Quote:

On the engineering drawings -
0 = all

$ = extra-cost OPTION



Thanks Dan! I was fairly sure the "O" meant all, but was not sure what the symbols were or meant... makes sense now tho. Is the symbol before "A93" a "$"...? I guess it would be...

So, in your opinion, does the paint application apply to all A/G equipped cars... at least from a drawing interpretation standpoint, regardless of how it was actually built?
Posted By: 6bblgt

Re: 71 Road Runner / GTX Air Grabber Hood cars- Hood Paint - 11/23/11 08:40 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Did painting the back of the hood also mean painting the cowl area under the vents black sorta of like when they black out behind the grilles.

Larry



That should be the case, although I believe dark colors did not get the cowl blackout....I' have to check, but I believe the factory engineering docs do indicate which colors did (didn't) require the blackout.



The cowl blackout was for all cars, regardless of hood type or hood paint... except for colors listed on the attached drawing.



The note indicates "ORGANISOL HOOD ONLY" - so cowl blackout was on N96 cars ONLY!!

All available '71 colors except - GF7 GB7 GY9 TX9

Attached picture 6932967-6932858-CowlBlackoutnote.jpg
Posted By: xs29j8

Re: 71 Road Runner / GTX Air Grabber Hood cars- Hood Paint - 11/23/11 09:11 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Did painting the back of the hood also mean painting the cowl area under the vents black sorta of like when they black out behind the grilles.

Larry



That should be the case, although I believe dark colors did not get the cowl blackout....I' have to check, but I believe the factory engineering docs do indicate which colors did (didn't) require the blackout.



The cowl blackout was for all cars, regardless of hood type or hood paint... except for colors listed on the attached drawing.



The note indicates "ORGANISOL HOOD ONLY" - so cowl blackout was on N96 cars ONLY!!

All available '71 colors except - GF7 GB7 GY9 TX9



I interpreted the note to mean Organisol as an alternate only on Organisol painted hoods... it appears I was mistaken.
Posted By: Butterscotch71

Re: 71 Road Runner / GTX Air Grabber Hood cars- Hood Paint - 11/23/11 09:50 PM

While V21 does not show as a separate line in the pricing guide, it would be very easy to fill in the line on the order sheet (car specification schedule) as it has boxes at the top right for V codes (V with a blank for fill in).
If the logic followed that it was not orderable, no GTXs should have V21 (or all should). I have a 71 Xs in my records that have V21 on the standard hood and some that do not (non-N96 hood indent pinstripes)....both fender tag and broadcast sheet codes. If this was only available with the A87 (ROAD RUNNER decor package) then there should be no way a standard hood GTX would have the pinstripes (or all should if it was standard GTX).
Without getting into the fender tag coding differences between build plants, I can tell you that the V21 code is not dependent on build plant, and I have a good mix of N96 cars from all plants with and without V21 on the tags.

Quote:

On the engineering drawings -
0 = all
**** so the "MODEL" line would read G/R-0-23 1971/Plymouth B-body-ALL-2 door hardtop RM23 (Road Runner) & RS23 (GTX)

$ = extra-cost OPTION

I also agree that the drawing & Plymouth's "intent" was to have the vent area of the "AIR GRABBER" hood (behind the insert) painted with "organisol". The issue that is clouding the topic is V21 or "our" interpretation of what it is.

1 - I can find no evidence of V21 being an orderable OPTION (with or without cost)
2 - It is included with OPTION A87 $85.60 on Road Runners - "Road Runner Decor package"
3 - Road Runners & GTXs were assembled at 3 different plants in '71 - coding differed from plant-to-plant & during the year

Posted By: Butterscotch71

Re: 71 Road Runner / GTX Air Grabber Hood cars- Hood Paint - 11/23/11 09:54 PM

Not to say these were always correct, as they were published before the production start, but here's a photo from the 71 Data Book (courtesy of Hamtramck Historical)

Posted By: Butterscotch71

Re: 71 Road Runner / GTX Air Grabber Hood cars- Hood Paint - 11/23/11 10:29 PM

After looking very carefully through my database,
I believe the following to be correct for 71s:

GTX
N96 - V21 blackout was standard
non N96 - V21 pinstripes were standard but could be omitted

Road Runner
N96 - V21 blackout was optional (and included in A87)
non N96 - V21 pinstripes were only available with A87
Posted By: xs29j8

Re: 71 Road Runner / GTX Air Grabber Hood cars- Hood Paint - 11/24/11 01:14 AM

Quote:

While V21 does not show as a separate line in the pricing guide...



Do you have a complete set of supplements?... See Challenger example below.

Attached picture 6933228-____OptionAndPriceBulletin1971Example.jpg
Posted By: Butterscotch71

Re: 71 Road Runner / GTX Air Grabber Hood cars- Hood Paint - 11/24/11 03:05 AM

Quote:

Quote:

While V21 does not show as a separate line in the pricing guide...



Do you have a complete set of supplements?... See Challenger example below.



Yes I have the suppliments for the Satellite line and as I mentioned they do not list V21
Posted By: 471Magnum

Re: 71 Road Runner / GTX Air Grabber Hood cars- Hood Paint - 12/04/11 06:09 PM

Quote:

I looked at my 72 today and it looks like the back of the hood was painted as well as the cowl area inside the hood gasket.

Larry



The 72 V21 is a completely different animal. My car is an example of the '72 V21/V25 stripe code, available only on N96 cars.

Bottom silhouette represents the V21/V25 option:

(photo credit Hamtramck-Historical)

It is my understanding that a 72 should not have the blackout extended to the back of the hood.

Attached picture 6950205-182sm.JPG
Posted By: Moparlar

Re: 71 Road Runner / GTX Air Grabber Hood cars- Hood Paint - 12/04/11 06:49 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I looked at my 72 today and it looks like the back of the hood was painted as well as the cowl area inside the hood gasket.

Larry



The 72 V21 is a completely different animal. My car is an example of the '72 V21/V25 stripe code, available only on N96 cars.


It is my understanding that a 72 should not have the blackout extended to the back of the hood.



Maybe mine got painted since it is a first week august built car.

Larry
Posted By: ryangtogtx

Re: 71 Road Runner / GTX Air Grabber Hood cars- Hood Paint - 12/04/11 08:53 PM

Quote:

After looking very carefully through my database,
I believe the following to be correct for 71s:

GTX
N96 - V21 blackout was standard
non N96 - V21 pinstripes were standard but could be omitted

Road Runner
N96 - V21 blackout was optional (and included in A87)
non N96 - V21 pinstripes were only available with A87



Eric, are you saying that even though my car is not coded for V21 on the 2 broadcast sheets I have, it should be painted on my car?
Posted By: Butterscotch71

Re: 71 Road Runner / GTX Air Grabber Hood cars- Hood Paint - 12/05/11 01:33 AM

Quote:

Quote:

After looking very carefully through my database,
I believe the following to be correct for 71s:

GTX
N96 - V21 blackout was standard
non N96 - V21 pinstripes were standard but could be omitted

Road Runner
N96 - V21 blackout was optional (and included in A87)
non N96 - V21 pinstripes were only available with A87



Eric, are you saying that even though my car is not coded for V21 on the 2 broadcast sheets I have, it should be painted on my car?



Ryan
Wasn't your car still original paint when you got it? Did it have the blackout?
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