Scat pak decal on quarter window?

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There has been some discussion in the past that "stripe DELETE" cars recieved NO Bees, but until someone comes up with an engineering drawing showing and/or explaining the application instruction "the original FACTORY intention" as to which cars recieved Bees will be in question. They were simple & inexpensive to add or remove 40 years ago or today.

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Dan what do you mean by this statement; are you talking about no bee on the 1/4 glass or on the tail? And are you talking 70 and + or no bee on the tail of a stripe delete '69 Super Bee too?


MikeR

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I have a 70 Chall with air - Going check that one too.

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My 1971 Challenger R/T does not have the Side window Scat Bees . Like another poster stated in an earlies post Stripe delete cars do not get the stickers. I do not know if this is true or not about Stripe delete 1971 Challenger R/Ts. I parted out an R/T Challenger and still have the side windows with its sticker on it.

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Jim, what are the details on your'71. Is it a 6 pack with a hole in the roof??

MB

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Frank P's car?

Also, this is the best pic I have, but I don't think my former LA built A66 car had either the Bees or the airtemp decal. It was a very original / unmolested and mostly original paint car when I bought it

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I would expand that statement to '70 ONLY!! except for "J" Challenger maybe?? Anyone ever see a '71 Charger or Demon with originals?
'70-'71 Parts Catalog shows: 23-63-134 DECAL, Qtr. Wdo. Glass Scat Pack Insignia (J) - (W '70) - (L '70)

The '70-'71 Parts Catalog also shown one pair of part numbers 3505 100 & 3505 101 - I thought there were 3 pairs (1 each for A, B, & E-bodies with the corner cut to match the roofline of the 1/4 window to aid installation). What does the '70 ONLY Catalog show?

I have not seen a '69 Daytona with Bees in the 1/4 window & they were the last of the '69s to make it to the dealerships. & they also made the '70 Scat Pack brochure.

There has been some discussion in the past that "stripe DELETE" cars recieved NO Bees, but until someone comes up with an engineering drawing showing and/or explaining the application instruction "the original FACTORY intention" as to which cars recieved Bees will be in question. They were simple & inexpensive to add or remove 40 years ago or today.

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Also, this is the best pic I have, but I don't think my former LA built A66 car had either the Bees or the airtemp decal. It was a very original / unmolested and mostly original paint car when I bought it

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Carpeted door panels
Tuff wheel
Chrome on parking brake pedal
power windows, black vinyl top, black bumblebee stripe & SE finish panel from additional pics in the LA thread .....

from one pic ..... I'm just sayin'

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My 70 Challenger had them. I was told it was a 70 only thing. It was about the only orginal thing I didn't have to fix or replace.

Question, did this come from the factory or were they put on at the dearship?

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Carpeted door panels
Tuff wheel
Chrome on parking brake pedal
power windows, black vinyl top, black bumblebee stripe & SE finish panel from additional pics in the LA thread .....

from one pic ..... I'm just sayin'

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Yes, A66 challenger had this Scat pack decal.

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Here is a picture of the car in front of the original dealership in Toronto(Rexdale) Ontario, Canada. Car is a Shaker car. I am not sure about Jims car.The Car has had the same paint scheme on it since the fall of 1972.Low milage Drag Car most of its life.

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Sorry to veer off the track a bit....

Kevin/Jim

I am assuming that your cars are rallye hood equipped. Do either of your cars have any R/T id on the hood?

MB

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Is this a factory circa 1970 document?

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Here is the engineering drawing from Chrysler. We just reproduced these decals because the ones that are currently being sold throughout the industry do not represent the originals. Along with the spec drawing, here is a photo of an original and our reproduction!

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'70-'71 Parts Catalog shows: 23-63-134 DECAL, Qtr. Wdo. Glass Scat Pack Insignia (J) - (W '70) - (L '70)

The '70-'71 Parts Catalog also shown one pair of part numbers 3505 100 & 3505 101 - I thought there were 3 pairs (1 each for A, B, & E-bodies with the corner cut to match the roofline of the 1/4 window to aid installation). What does the '70 ONLY Catalog show?

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Dave's post of the engineering drawing states:

3505102-3 (S/O 3505100) DECAL-QTR WDO GLASS "SCAT PACK" INSIGNIA

Anyone know the translation for the "(S/O 3505100)"?

Anyone have pics of their original backing from one of the T/As mentioned?

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Anyone have pics of their original backing from one of the T/As mentioned?

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Does that mean that the RT models with V98 stripe delete should not have the bees? (all of this pertaining to only 1970 of coarse.)

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Dave, What was "wrong" with your reproductions? How did they differ from factory applied?
I'm convinced (until proven wrong) that the 3505100-1 were factory applied on b-bodies, 3505102-3 were factory applied on e-bodies & WAG there were 3505104-5 for the Darts.

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Is the engineering drawing helpful?

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That is exactly what was needed to help eliminate some of the guess work. Your drawing substantiates and proves what Dan conveyed in an earlier post. The "100-1" decal was most likely the correct decal for the B Body but also sufficient to use for the other vehicles as a service replacement. If anyone has an A Body engineering drawing it would complete the scenario. Thanks for posting that illustration!

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Dave, What was "wrong" with your reproductions? How did they differ from factory applied?

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Hi Dan! The posting of the B Body drawing might have opened a completely new can of worms. I don't think that my reproductions were necessarily incorrect! They may have been wrong for A and E Body vehicles. Dave Stuart and I both have the original Bees on our Challenger quarters and they look slightly different than the 3505100-1 (or B Body) part numbers. Could this mean that there were actually 3 variations as they pertained to the specific vehicles?

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There are NOT separate decals and/or part numbers that differentiate A, B or E body vehicles.

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I just wanted to clarify that I was absolutely wrong regarding the above comment. They DID use different numbers! Dan was/is on the right track with the different part numbers and hopefully someone can find a drawing for the A Body style Bees. I will check to see if Dave's car still has the original quarter windows.

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The STANDARD stripe on a '70 Challenger R/T was V60 (OPTIONAL colors), so if it was ordered without stripes, the stripe DELETE code would be V68. V90 (OPTIONAL colors) was a N/C (no cost/no charge) OPTION.
A66 was STANDARD with V90 (OPTIONAL colors), so if it was ordered without stripes, the stripe DELETE code would be V98.

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There are differences in both the actual drawing and coloring of the decals.

I don't think that my reproductions were necessarily incorrect! They may have been wrong for A and E Body vehicles. Dave Stuart and I both have the original Bees on our Challenger quarters and they look slightly different than the 3505100-1 (or B Body) part numbers. Could this mean that there were actually 3 variations as they pertained to the specific vehicles?

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Since the 1970 V98 stripe delete cars got the bees, then most likely the 1970 V68 stripe delete cars should have them also, but only the drawing would say for sure.

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Hi Tav! The differences are not "registration" variances in the printing or a "different run" change. There are colors that are not printed in some areas of the NOS decal but ARE present in the assembly line versions. I will show these changes after we manufacture them so we can keep that "slight" advantage over our competition. I have no idea why they added the extra effort and expense to do this. While restoring these cars, I found this same type of redundancy to be evident with quite a few parts.

What will people choose? The NOS version that does not accurately represent the assembly line version or a reproduction that looks exactly like the originals?

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What will people choose? The NOS version that does not accurately represent the assembly line version or a reproduction that looks exactly like the originals?

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That IS an interesting situation. I think a lot of people that don't know the difference would choose your reproduction because it's easier to find and probably cheaper than NOS (on top of your excellent reputation for quality). The people "in the know" would probably still choose your assembly line correct reproduction. Looks like you've got a good product on your hands. Thanks for going the extra mile to make it assembly line correct.

If you end up making a different bee decal for each body style, will you also cut the corner off the backing to match the window and aid in placement? (or to save you the work of cutting it, perhaps print a cut line so that the restorer can cut it in the right spot)


I suspect most of the people looking for the NOS version won't know that it's not assembly line correct, so It'll be important for you to have that info in your item description to increase your sales.

After that, I don't suppose very many people would want the NOS ones. Maybe if someone was looking for an aged appearance for a survivor (the kind of person that prefers yellowed plastic over white plastic). OR, Maybe if someone was doing a "day 2" resto where the original owner had placed the bees on a non-scat pack car. OR, Maybe if the NOS price dropped enough due to lack of demand, someone might use them for budget reasons... Just my rambling

I suppose some of the B body guys might still prefer the NOS, since it's correct for their car.

Tav

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Anyone have pics of their original backing from one of the T/As mentioned?

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Another consideration.....

These cars were driven when new in most cases. If you live in a state (or country) where you need an ice scraper to clear your windows to be able to see to drive, well, ice scrapers were not kind to these stickers.

If your 1970 Scat Pack car does not or did not have them, stay warm.

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All the bees I have seen were always on the inside glass of the car.
Most will tell you though, it is not always fun having bees inside your car.

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If you did not have frost on the inside of the windows the morning after, you were not using the back seat right.

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I forgot how cold it gets where you are Barry.
I'd also bet a fair number of your dates were confused by one hand groping them, and the other hand searching the seat for a broadcast sheet.

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Is it possible to tell if this ones original on my a 12 ?

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What am I missing??

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Hello Dan! I will posts some side by side comparisons just as soon as I locate the original A Body versions. They may or may not be different from either the E or B Body examples. The B Body guys are lucky because their versions were used for the "default" service replacement items. I guess someone made the decision that the small variations were not important enough (or cost too much) to offer as a replacement. It may not have been an intentional/deliberate effort to print the slight variations. It could have been an inadvertent color change by the plates used to print them or even a vendor thing!

Do most of you want the slight changes to choose from? I am close to buying over 300 of the NOS replacements for the B Bodies (3505100-1) if that is what the market wants. I would appreciate input from you guys since you are the ones we have the privilege to work for and serve! Give me your opinions and thoughts. Thanks.

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Dave why would you buy 300 NOS ones ? Your company makes new ones, do you plan to offer new ones and/or NOS ones ?

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Other than color & registration I see NO difference in the 3 Bees I posted above.

What am I missing??

An example of one diff beyond colors: Look at the helmet stripe in the photo I posted.
one is black/white/red/black/white/red while the other is black/red/black/red/black.

I imagine that it is the law of diminishing returns to reproduce the minor diffs and IMHO unless you are looking for the diffs they are too close to notice.

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I didn't say white had the registration problem & wouldn't white be the FIRST "hue" put down not the last as it is printed on the "backing" not the "face liner"?

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And, just to 'prove' (as if I need to) what a sport I am, I have a pair of the nos b body bees and I'll offer them to the first person to tell me they have a need and would like them. I don't need them.
Even you Dave.

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Dog gone it! I missed out again. I was going to buy your two decals, resell them for a small fortune and then go buy a Ferrari or something. If it weren't for you exposing my other manipulating scheme, I was going to be able to buy a Beach front home in Tahiti with the MILLIONS of $$$$$ I would have made from scarfing up those 300 little NOS window Bees and ruling the Mopar World! Oh well.....there goes Christmas for the kids. Why did you have to go and ruin my hopes for becoming a successful business tycoon?!

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......You really are looking to deeply here..... Any idea why the vendor would have so many more of one side?

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Isn't that ironic? Your (above) statement was exactly what I thought when I read your view regarding my purpose for purchasing the inventory of decals. Remember this?
"Or perhaps remove the NOS units from the market in order to drive UP the prices on the repops."

To answer your other question, I have no idea or opinion as to why this individual has so many of just one side. I don't make it a practice to criticize or judge any scenario without having at least some knowledge about the situation! (Where did I say that I was getting them from another "vendor"?) Maybe you could tell us why he has them all!

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(Where did I say that I was getting them from another "vendor"?)

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......or, the place I am getting them from has no impact on the market because they are not being offered for sale to the public. If I don't buy every single one of the 300 left sides, then I can't obtain the twenty right sides he has in order to complete some matching pairs. Imagine that!?! I have to buy 280 left sides that will not have a matching right side just to get 20 complete sets!

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Right here;


......or, the place I am getting them from has no impact on the market because they are not being offered for sale to the public. If I don't buy every single one of the 300 left sides, then I can't obtain the twenty right sides he has in order to complete some matching pairs. Imagine that!?! I have to buy 280 left sides that will not have a matching right side just to get 20 complete sets!

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I still can't find where I ever stated that I was getting them from a "vendor". Can you please point out the word "vendor" from the quote you chose to prove your point? Did you not understand the part where I said they WERE NOT offered for sale to the public? Did I really need to specify that they were coming from an individual who bought them (and stashed them away) many years ago? Would that have made any difference to you?

I apologize that you feel bullied by me RESPONDING to your initial and instigating remark. Don't expect someone to blow you a kiss when you start things off with a slap in the face.

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Just out of curiosity, how much would each set run?

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