1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hacked!

Posted By: rtmike

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hacked! - 10/11/10 12:51 AM

I consider that the equivalent of burning a historically significant flag.

I mean really if you want to prove your a stubborn jackhole and won't listen to reason there has to be less costly and irritating way to do it.

Posted By: badblack68

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hacked! - 10/11/10 02:35 AM

Posted By: moparpollack

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hacked! - 10/11/10 02:42 AM

No biggie look at the barrel cuda it can be put back if wanted or needed. I've seen the same thing happen to a rotisserie restored 6-pack Super Bee.

Posted By: srt

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hacked! - 10/11/10 03:04 AM

It's hard for me to comprehend the owners actions.

Posted By: Azzkikrcuda

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hacked! - 10/11/10 04:00 AM

Owner can do what ever he wants with HIS car. Better to see it getting used then sitting in some museum or another trailer queen.

Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hacked! - 10/11/10 04:26 AM

It's hard for me to comprehend the owners actions.

Simple,.....he's enjoying his hobby,....it's a racecar, a machine, nothing more, as it was treated from day one, why should it be any different today,..........or should it be "restored" to OE/stock condition so that it can sit in a "collection", or rolled on/off the trailer in tire "booties" to the OE Gold tent for Judging?

Posted By: RoadRunnerJD

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/11/10 04:31 AM

How much fun would it be to run that car with a proshifted 4 speed! You could trick up the rear and front suspension without cutting it and still run low 10's. Look at the FAST guys. There are more than one 4 speed cars well in the 10'a with belted tires! You don't have to tub it or cut it to get traction and have a lot of horse power. Is he putting a fuel cell in it too? What's with the black engine compartment. Won't that retain too much heat for a race car? I know he's building it for himself but a big part of the accomplishment would be measured by how much everyone else appreciates your work. There are plenty of really fast cars out there but a fast car that is preserved as it was 40 years ago would differentiate it from the rest! It's definitely going to kill the profit in his 42 year old investment. It's nice if you don't have to worry about money at this stage in life but this is almost like an act of spite or vandalism being done in everyone's face! Unbelievable!

Posted By: SNK-EYZ

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/11/10 10:41 AM

So the guy has owned the car since 1968, as much as everyone may not like it it's is his car.

Why should he have to sell it to appease others?

Apparently it's always been a race car, so what has changed?

The constant bickering about what cars are worth is one of the things that have taken the fun out of the hobby and made it more like a business.

The love of the cars used to be what motivated people to have them and actually drive and race them.

That being said, I would return it to the as raced in the 60's look.
But as stated, it's his car.

Posted By: maundmotorworks

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/11/10 11:13 AM

Quote:

So the guy has owned the car since 1968, as much as everyone may not like it it's is his car.

Why should he have to sell it to appease others?

Apparently it's always been a race car, so what has changed?

The constant bickering about what cars are worth is one of the things that have taken the fun out of the hobby and made it more like a business.

The love of the cars used to be what motivated people to have them and actually drive and race them.

That being said, I would return it to the as raced in the 60's look.
But as stated, it's his car.

I couldn't agree more! The bottom line is that something is only worth what someone else will pay you for it. Obviously he does not care about selling it, and I don't see anyone here that was trying to buy it. Rather I just see a bunch of armchair car restorers. Sputnik, you're right, cars are for driving, and that's the biggest reason to own one. As for selling it or restoring it a certain way to appease others, you're right there too. It's his car and nobody else's. Explain to me how that's anybody else's business...

Posted By: GregCon

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/11/10 11:27 AM

It's his car and nobody else's. Explain to me how that's anybody else's business...

While I personally don't care what the guys does with that car, there is a concept called 'custodianship' that floats around the world of vintage items. Custodianship is a concept many people, myself included, believe in.

Some rich kid buys the outfit Jimi Hendrix wore at Woodstock. It was only $2.9 Million at auction. He decides to wear it, to be cool. He's a fattie, so he has his Mum let it out 6 inches in the rear. Then on his first night at the Disco he spills a bunch of booze on it and then throws up all over it. It's nasty, so he throws it in a dumpster and it's never seen again.

Now, has Richie Rich broken any laws? No. It's his shirt, He can do what he wants. But what he has done in ruin a piece of history and prevented anyone in the next 500 years from enjoying it.

You see, Richie was not the owner of that outfit. He was the custodian of it. He was in charge of it while he was alive. He had an obligation to take care of it. He failed.

You may or may not believe in Karma and all that but I'll tell you - I sure wouldn't want to be Richie after puke night. No telling when he's gonna get hit by a truck or choke to death on a doughnut.

Posted By: maundmotorworks

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/11/10 11:33 AM

Greg, I see your point. But once again, why didn't a prospective custodian with a pile of money try to go buy it and save it? While I do indeed agree that some things should be maintained for historical value, the fact remains. It's a Mopar. It's not a Duesenberg.

Posted By: GregCon

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/11/10 11:52 AM

Money is a funny thing....

Protective Custodian did try to buy it. He ran out of money at $2.7M. Richie Rich, whose mother married some guy who owned Armbruster Amalgamated, has lots more money than sense.

In another 50 years that Mopar will be a Deusie.

Funny you should mention Deusenberg - Richie found one for $4M, possibly the best example left in the world. He is going to modernize it with side pipes, a 604" BB Chevy, turbos, an MP3 player, a flare kit, and a sunroof.......

Posted By: maundmotorworks

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/11/10 11:55 AM

Whatever. Have fun looking at your car. I'll be having more fun driving mine.

Posted By: maundmotorworks

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/11/10 12:05 PM

Quote:

In another 50 years that Mopar will be a Deusie.

One more thing, think about this statement. In 50 years that Mopar will be a Duesie? Hardly. While I do love Mopar, the hard truth is that a Mopar isn't a pimple on a Duesenberg's azz. A Duesenberg was a very highly crafted car, built by true craftsmen, and it shows. The Mopars were not. But the difference is that the Mopars are way more affordable by comparison. I stand by my original point that is the addage of hot rodders and racers: "it takes a man to restore a car, but a real man will cut one up."

Posted By: SNK-EYZ

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/11/10 12:12 PM

It's still just a car, admittedly a rare version, but just a car.

I'm not sure that anyone would be willing to pay the price numbers that have been thrown around here for the car.
66 and 67's seem to be the red headed step child of the Hemi B-Bodies.
If it's got a documented race history with a big name it helps, but it doesn't look like that's the case.

In the grand scheme of things in a few hundred years no one will really care about the old cars we cherish.

Posted By: maundmotorworks

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/11/10 12:18 PM

Quote:

It's still just a car, admittedly a rare version, but just a car.

I'm not sure that anyone would be willing to pay the price numbers that have been thrown around here for the car.
66 and 67's seem to be the red headed step child of the Hemi B-Bodies.
If it's got a documented race history with a big name it helps, but it doesn't look like that's the case.

In the grand scheme of things in a few hundred years no one will really care about the old cars we cherish.

Posted By: GregCon

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/11/10 12:29 PM

My own view is more simple...I look at all of the old cars as having paid their dues years ago. They are now 'retired' and deserve a little better treatment.

Posted By: sixpackbee

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hacked! - 10/11/10 01:51 PM

Well, there is another "just when you thought you've heard it all" stories. I can't believe that in this day of instant information a person would not figure out what this car is/was and not pick another path to travel down with it. He should have flipped it got and good portion of his race car financed for free. Hell, I'd have given or found him a good body if it would have saved the car. No doubt the best example of a shortsighted action taken on a car I've heard of all year or longer. Now off to save a lowly 440 car.

Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/11/10 01:53 PM

Quote:

I'm not sure that anyone would be willing to pay the price numbers that have been thrown around here for the car.
66 and 67's seem to be the red headed step child of the Hemi B-Bodies.

The reason for my

comments was due to a rare piece of Mopar history being damaged, sure, the value hit also came to mind but it was a distant second place. However, concerning your comment about 67's not being worth all that much? This year, bad economy and all I personally witnessed the sale of one example sell for $500,000, granted it was no run of the mill example, but it was a very similar 67 Hemi car, Is that enough for you?

Posted By: gtx6970

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/11/10 02:46 PM

Quote:

The guy bought this car in 1968 for $300. He knows what it's worth now and doesn't care... It's not about value to him, it's about doing what he wants to his own car...

I could'nt do it, BUT I wouldn't condem the man for it for doing what He wants to His car either.
Owning it this long , It obviously has sentimental value. So replacing it with something else would not be the same.

Look at it this way, it's no different than doing a full blown OE level restoration on a non-desirable/valuable car. For some it's not about the money.

Case in point, I'm trying to get the job to resurect a 1972 Olds Cutlass convertible - just a 350 2 bbl car. it's a nothing special car to most people. But the man has owned it for about 25 years. He bought it in High School, drove it all thru college, dated his now wife in it. I told him he could buy one done for less money, His reply was - Yea, but it's not this car.

btw, I know people who can replace the mods to this particular car , and if you didn't see them do it, you could not tell .

Posted By: anlauto

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hacked! - 10/11/10 03:07 PM

My first reaction is....Who cares, it's not like it's an E Body or anything

But now after looking at the pictures of how clean the car was, I'd say it's a shame....but oh well....it's not like it's an E Body or anything...

Posted By: sixpakdodge

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/11/10 03:14 PM

Couple things here...

Hacked? Scott, you don't know what hacked is. At most this will be a Super Stock car. Yeah, they're moving the springs in, that's about the worst of what is being done here. It still has the stock wheel wells! All that was done here is enough to bring the car up to snuff for safety reasons and to make it a little more competitive.

Also, Why post this now Scott? I see you posted in that thread back in June. Why wasn't this important then?

This is a recent trunk photo of the Mancini & Tignanelli Zoom-O '64 Dodge. This is hacked.

Attached picture 6244362-038.jpg

Posted By: Iceman01

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/11/10 04:15 PM

This is one of the prime fringe benefits of Moparts -- watching grown men get their panties in a wad over something that is really quite inconsequential in the grand scheme of things.

Posted By: srt

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hacked! - 10/11/10 04:48 PM

Personally I would prefer to see it restored to "as raced".
I believe historical preservation is appropriate for any car produced and used in the muscle car era.
It's easy to preserve a cars progression from stock to as used, especially by retaining any parts that accompany the car and also researching photos or other documentation that exist.
I'd like to see more unrestored cars subject to that type of resto rather than day one.

Posted By: HitIt

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hacked! - 10/11/10 05:37 PM

Quote:

Personally I would prefer to see it restored to "as raced".
I believe historical preservation is appropriate for any car produced and used in the muscle car era.
It's easy to preserve a cars progression from stock to as used, especially by retaining any parts that accompany the car and also researching photos or other documentation that exist.
I'd like to see more unrestored cars subject to that type of resto rather than day one.

This is exactly how I feel, although with the standard discliamer that it is none of my business, not my car, nothing to do with me etc.

Posted By: Aero426

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hacked! - 10/11/10 06:18 PM

Quote:

Owner can do what ever he wants with HIS car. Better to see it getting used then sitting in some museum or another trailer queen.

It is true that there is nothing to prevent owners from doing dumb things with their car, despite what they have been advised.

Also, this is not "just another car". It WAS an unmolested piece of history. Being hacked, it's no longer the really "pure" car that it was. In that regards, you can restore it later, but you can't ever really go back to the way it was.

I was told a few months ago that the owner had a short term health horizon and wanted to see the car run again. That said, the nature of the changes are still completely irresponsible.

Posted By: RUNCHARGER

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hacked! - 10/11/10 07:15 PM

I think some people just don't get it. This car could have been compared to a Duesenberg or any other vehicle that there are only TWO or maybe THREE examples in the whole world. That is one rare piece and it was the ultimate and very significant performance vehicle in that production year.
I also think this hacking madness has been partially perpetuated by the #'s guys. In the Mopar world some people in this hobby say that if a rare piece doesn't have the engine and air in the tires that it left the factory with, then it isn't worthy of a full restoration. To my way of thinking if a rare hemi or six pack (or any muscle era Mopar) has the same type of engine that it left the factory with then it's a worthy example and shouldn't be shunned by the so-called experts of the hobby. If this car had been restored it would have had the "experts" pointing fingers saying that "yeah it's nice but that isn't the original engine block, and those carbs came off a GTX, pooh, pooh".

Sheldon

Posted By: SNK-EYZ

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hacked! - 10/11/10 08:52 PM

Quote:

I think some people just don't get it. This car could have been compared to a Duesenberg or any other vehicle that there are only TWO or maybe THREE examples in the whole world. That is one rare piece and it was the ultimate and very significant performance vehicle in that production year.
I also think this hacking madness has been partially perpetuated by the #'s guys. In the Mopar world some people in this hobby say that if a rare piece doesn't have the engine and air in the tires that it left the factory with, then it isn't worthy of a full restoration. To my way of thinking if a rare hemi or six pack (or any muscle era Mopar) has the same type of engine that it left the factory with then it's a worthy example and shouldn't be shunned by the so-called experts of the hobby. If this car had been restored it would have had the "experts" pointing fingers saying that "yeah it's nice but that isn't the original engine block, and those carbs came off a GTX, pooh, pooh".

Sheldon

I don't see the comparison as an equal to to a Deusenberg as this was a production car that someone just checked off the right order boxes to get it.
It wasn't a hand built car, which is what made Deusenbergs special, and rare.

Rare and cool, yes.
Hand built, no.

Ahh the days when you could order a car any way you wanted and not be forced to buy every option package they want to make a buck on.

Posted By: 64Post

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hacked! - 10/11/10 09:10 PM

I think I'm going to cut the roof off my Sox & Martin Cuda...

Posted By: SNK-EYZ

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hacked! - 10/11/10 09:16 PM

Quote:

I think I'm going to cut the roof off my Sox & Martin Cuda...

If that's what you really want to do.

I wouldn't recommend it, but if it's your car.

Everyone knows convertibles don't make the best race cars.

Posted By: Aero426

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hacked! - 10/11/10 09:18 PM

The comparison to a hand built Duesenberg may not be fair. But that particular '67 the way it WAS, is more than the sum of its parts. Rare equipment combination, some race history, low miles, survived untouched (until now). Very hard if not possible to duplicate "the find". If it was a name car like Sox & Martin, or Landy, more people would be screaming.

Posted By: SNK-EYZ

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/11/10 10:35 PM

Quote:

Yep this about says it all. Sure it sucks it's a piece of history...But lets face it if it was up for sale for 100K as is it would be on the WIW board with people saying it's worth 20k tops...

If someone really wanted to save it they could as EVERYTHING does have a price...

That's not always the case, some people don't have a price. As crazy as it sounds they refuse to sell no matter what.
I have a buddy like that, he's had obscene offers for his car (it's a one of 62 built IIRC) and his reply is "It's not for sale".
His wife on the other hand keeps the potential buyers contact info.
The day after he passes away she'll be on the phone pimping it out to the highest bidder.

Posted By: SNK-EYZ

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/11/10 10:46 PM

Quote:

Well then you confirmed my point EVERYTHING has a price it's just that he won't be around to know what that price was....

My point was that not every person has a price.

Yes, the car has a value, but not everyone will sell.

There may not be a price that it would take for the guy to to be willing to sell the 67.

The next owner after he passes away may feel the same way, but probably not because it probably won't have the same sentimental value to them.

Posted By: Commando1

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hacked! - 10/12/10 12:05 AM

I want that car more than anything.
I don't have the money.
Therefor I want to live my life vicariously through him and do with it as I would do.
If I had the money.
Which I don't.

Posted By: rtmike

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hacked! - 10/12/10 02:16 AM

Fact: His car, his right to do whatever he likes to it.

Fact: In doing so he damages an exceptionally rare car.

Opinion: I think he's off his rocker. I don't care if he bought it from Fred Flintstone, he could have traded for a car that was 100% ready to go and do what he would like to it, or come up with a deal to do the same things without cutting it up.

Opinion 2: My undies aren't in a bundle, this was posted to elicit opinions, and it did, thats what makes this place interesting.

Posted By: srt

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/12/10 02:17 AM

For discussion sake, take price and value out.
What has been done to the car will not (likely) be un-done.
What has been done to the car could have been done to any number of donor cars (from 60's to current production).
I'm going to guess here, I have a gut feeling the guy has done this to smite others that might thought they had a chance to (finally) own the car.
Having a terminal diagnosis makes some people do incomprehensible things.

Posted By: AZ-Nick

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/12/10 07:07 AM

I remember 2 years ago when I thought the end was getting here quicker than I wanted, I thought I was about to die because of a tumor they found in me.
At that specific moment I remember being with my dad for the last few months he had when he was dieing of Cancer in 2000. At that time I could not fathom what his thoughts were and the decisions he was making made no sense to me at the time. He did what he wanted and when he wanted to do it.
So when it happened to me I started to understand that this was it and if I wanted something or to do something I better get it done and I too didn't care what anyone would think..... It is an awful feeling to have and to go through. If the owner wants to do it to his car, so be it, let him, you will have your chance to mirror his feelings and thoughts someday and you will reflect back and do your thing.....

Posted By: Dave Watt

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/12/10 02:08 PM

Before this thread started I didn't even know that a '67 Hemi Belvedere sedan was all that special, maybe the owner didn't either.

Hope he enjoys it for another 42 years.

Posted By: DPelletier

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/12/10 04:10 PM

It's his car so he's free to do with it what he will.......and I'm free to think he's a moron for doing it! ...see it all works out!

Dave

Posted By: A12

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/12/10 04:51 PM

I have to admit that before he did what he�s doing now he wasn�t anybody and nobody knew squat about him or his car and it seems could care less. His car was just a hidden away �67 Hemi Belvedere with what could have been a clone factory paint job or even a clone car. Now he will live in Mopar infamy FOREVER as �wasn�t there some guy that took a 43 mile factory Hemi race car and made it they way he wanted it��.he�s leaving his mark on Mopar history and before he did this nobody cared

about him, his life, his health or HIS car, good for him, now that�s going out with flare. We�ll always remember you, whatever your name is? I think I�ll give him a nickname name like �43 Mile Hemi Guy� sort of like �Balloon Boy� and all of those other nicknames of people that we don't know their real names that have done things that really don�t matter in the big scheme of life but PO a lot of people that it really doesn�t affect their real lives at all.

Here�s to you "43 Mile Hemi Guy" and your place in Mopar history and folklore.

(Sad for the car and its historical �value� but good for him, as old �Blue Eyes� Frank sang �I did it myyyyyyy waaaaaaaay� and

)

MikeR

Posted By: srt

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/12/10 05:22 PM

Some people's perhaps.
In 'o7 when I was diagnosed, I made plans that would insure the family would be o.k. and vehicles would not be a headache to them. This included a partial liquidation, a purchase or three and directions on whom to contact about certain other vehicles...
Being terminal does not mean irresponsible. Actually, the 'medical establishment' recommends that one DOES NOT make any major descisions during the time one's coming to terms with their situation.
With that in thought let me suggest the name Mr. Hemi Killer.
He can proudly emblazon it on the side of his new dragcar (likely to be driven by someone else)

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/12/10 05:32 PM

Quote:

I have to admit that before he did what he�s doing now he wasn�t anybody and nobody knew squat about him or his car and it seems could care less. His car was just a hidden away �67 Hemi Belvedere with what could have been a clone factory paint job or even a clone car. Now he will live in Mopar infamy FOREVER as �wasn�t there some guy that took a 43 mile factory Hemi race car and hacked it up��.he�s leaving his mark on Mopar history and before he did this nobody cared about him, his life, his health or HIS car, good for him, now that�s going out with flare. We�ll always remember you, whatever your name is? I think I�ll give him a nickname name like �43 Mile Hemi Hack� sort of like �Balloon Boy� and all of those other nicknames of people that we don't know their real names that have done things that really don�t matter in the big scheme of life but PO a lot of people that it really doesn�t affect their real lives at all.

Here�s to you "43 Mile Hemi Hack" and your place in Mopar history and folklore.

(Sad for the car and its historical �value� but good for him, as old �Blue Eyes� Frank sang �I did it myyyyyyy waaaaaaaay� and )

MikeR

Mike I think there is a little confusion on your part , it's not a factory race car , it's just a Hemi , but yes a rare one.

edit ... I just read the entire thread, was this car really a MULE for the 68 SS a bodies running out of the Boston area ???

Jon does some nice work , I hope to see it at the track next year .

Posted By: srt

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/12/10 07:58 PM

One of the posts in the other bbs claims so:

"The original motor was put into a Dart back in 1968... And back then , even being 1 or 6, this was called a "mule car", and it wasn't an issue yanking the motor back then.... This was the predecessor to the superstock Cudas and Darts... "
Anyone verify the quality of the info.

Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/12/10 09:00 PM

The "Mule Car" story for the 68 program is pure fantasy.

If (and it's a BIG if) it was any kind of mule car it would have been for the 67 RO/WO program, and that distinction already belongs to the Judy Lilly car (the only other 67 RL21J7 4 speed car known to exist) as confirmed by Dale Reeker who hand walked it down the production line for Judy (see story on my website). It's possible that 2 were built as mules but I haven't seen any facts or verifiable history to back that up at this point in time.

Posted By: HotRodDave

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/12/10 09:17 PM

The whole thing is this, the guy was apparently born with a silver spoon in his mouth and likes to rub it in. Most of us on here can not afford to do something like that so it looks completly retarded to us. On the other hand some poor kid in Cuba probably would think I was nuts for painting my cuda non-original and ditching the original 318 2bbl 7.25 in favor of a warmed up 360 8.75. I took a lot of the cars originality out of it and made it better IMO, that is what he is doing just with a $100,000 car instead of a $10,000 car, he just has so much money that none of it matters to him. You can tell for sure this is the situation when he throws the factory Hemi Dana60 out for the scrap metal guys to haul off, he just has too much money, just like the kids in cuba probably think about me, "he tossed out a perfectly good 7.25 rear

we could have used that in the old dart!

Posted By: A12

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/12/10 09:22 PM

John, on the car; what I find odd and maybe this doesn't apply to this car is I thought a "factory race car" was a bare minimum car from the factory WITHOUT undercoating or sound deadening, etc., but the photos clearly show the rear wheel wells with what appears to be....

.......then again maybe that's rubber from the M&H slicks

Oh, and that 43 miles a quarter mile at a time has to be at least a little over a 1/2 to 3/4 miles at a time.......a quarter mile up, slow down distance, a quarter mile back and getting back to the pits and back to the start has to be way more than a 1/4 mile...yuk, yuk,

All that odo tells anyone is that's when the cable was disconnected

I need to come up with a nicer nickname for the guy, I don't wish him any ill will, just used that because of the tone of most of the thread by some (I'm on his side, btw his car etc). He's really like most of us, he's probably been wanting to do that for many, many years (I think I read that) and procrastinated just like most of us about doing in it; DAMHIK

guilty.

MikeR

Posted By: JB666

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/13/10 12:56 AM

All I can say is what I've been saying all along... It's his car, his $$... In the end, his decision.. More power to him for doing what he wants with it

I stopped by Jon's shop tonight to talk to him about a few things... And we got to talking about this car...

His feelings are it's his car, he can do whatever he wants with it.. He asked the owner if it's REALLY what he wanted done and if he knew what he was doing.. The owner replied "I've had this for 42 years and this is what I want". Jon explained everything that had to be cut and moved...Jon told him to sell it like it is (factory) and buy any car you want and race tomorrow with it...

So in the end, it's something the owner went into with his eyes open wide...

As for the post above.. it is a real car. Jim Reid (who built my motor) is the guy who put the 43 miles on it back in 1967. It was bought new from Hall Motors in Brockton, MA. It was a factory Hemi 4-speed Belvedere 1, otherwise known as the mule car...Radio delete.. Heat delete... Jim and his brother Tom raced it in '67 and sold it at the end of the year , to another guy in Central Mass, who pulled the entire drivetrain out. The CURRENT owner bought the body, as you see it for $300. It even has the original metal hood scoop...

For the record, the guy who owns this is not rich.. He's a regular working stiff like the rest of us... He put his kids through college.. Did his time.. And this is his dream car.

My hat's off to him for living his dream.

Any one who thinks the car is being "hacked" should really go see the quality of the work that's being done and decide for themselves...

Posted By: QuickSilver

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/13/10 01:53 AM

First of all I wish this cat all the very best. He is doing something that he obviously had thought about for a long time. Could he have made a better choice in picking a car that was not a "HEMI" born car, sure he could have. The thing is it is a "HEMI" car, it's not a lightweight factory drag car so yes it would have full undercoating as well. But I can certainly relate to what he is doing. I had a very good customer come to me back in 2000 and said that he just purchased a '66 HEMI Coronet 2dr. sedan and he wants to turn it into a drag racer, an old school nostalgia super stocker. Did I mention this car, which was a column shift automatic "HEMI" car, only had 33 miles on it? Yes "33" miles. Remember the customer is always right. Originally this car was campaigned by Super Stock racer Tom Cructhfield. I know that this guy did really well in a '65 HEMI Coronet the year before and this '66 Dodge ran is A/S. Trust me I wrestled with the idea of taking what could be a cool unusual Hemi 2dr. sedan car and doing what this customer wanted to do. I mean this guy was hot to trot and wanted the entire back end all trimmed out for 14-32 slicks and everything that is just wrong for one of these cars. I guess when you have money to burn maybe certain things just don't matter unlike someone that has to earn his dough to fund his cars, let alone cut up a legit HEMI born car these days. Finally I got through to him after months of discussion on why we shouldn't destroy a factory built HEMI Dodge. So we compromised. I took that "33" mile Dodge and I did exactly what the customer wanted. Believe me once you make the first cut it does get easier. Since the car was very solid with the exception of the front floor pan was completely rotted out because it was a rubber floor mat car, it made my job easier. From there I tied the frame, installed a chromemoly 12 point roll cage as the car was designed to run around the 9.50 mark. I did a very tasteful mini tub job and I left all of the original "HEMI specific torque boxes and tie plates in. This way people would not mistake this for anything other than a factory hemi car. Open the trunk and yes it still looks rather stock. We set the car up to run on the 10.5" tire and a ladder bar suspension with Koni double adjustable shocks. The manner in which the car was done didn't really take anything away from it since I made it to be reversed some day if some body decided to. The rest is just sheetmetal and the car was going to need that anyway so we ended up with a bad azzed nostalgia Super Stock car that looks like it is 1966 all over again. It still is a "HEMI and yes it went 9.21 @ 132 on it's maiden voyage with Ray Barton supplying the 900 horses! Hopefully the gentleman with the '67 car has as much fun as we have. Live them to the fullest guys! JC.

Attached picture 6247366-Image(1).jpg

Posted By: QuickSilver

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/13/10 01:54 AM

Rear:

Posted By: QuickSilver

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/13/10 01:55 AM

Last one:

Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/13/10 02:11 AM

Quote:

As for the post above.. it is a real car. Jim Reid (who built my motor) is the guy who put the 43 miles on it back in 1967. It was bought new from Hall Motors in Brockton, MA. It was a factory Hemi 4-speed Belvedere 1, otherwise known as the mule car...Radio delete.. Heat delete... Jim and his brother Tom raced it in '67 and sold it at the end of the year , to another guy in Central Mass, who pulled the entire drivetrain out. The CURRENT owner bought the body, as you see it for $300. It even has the original metal hood scoop...

JB, no desrespect but the term "Mule Car" seems to be nothing more than a nickname they gave to the "Donor Car" that gave up it's drive train to a 68 car, nothing more (unless you can dig up some proof of otherwise?). Also, the RO/WO scoop may be an original (if it's made of steel) but regardless it did not come on that car from the factory, it was added after purchase. As far as it being a "real" Hemi car, I have no doubt that it is. As far as the term "hacked" is concerned, I found it appropriate to describe ANY type of sheet metal modification performed on such a rare car, regardless of the skill level of the fabricator.

Just one mans opinion

Posted By: domingo

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/13/10 02:13 AM

Why cut up an original when you can take any run of the mill car and do the same thing?

When the rare cars have already have been modified back in the day and have some kind of history or racing heritage I do agree on leaving them like that or restoring them to their former glory.

If its an untouched original example, I would leave it as is.

But oh well, its his car. I would have NEVER done that to that car though!

I have a 67 Barracuda notchback slant 6 to cut up as I please, stuff a HEMI in it, cage it, whatever....my 69 HEMI Charger Im restoring to bone stock specs. But oh well, thats what makes sense to me. It'd be boring if we all thought alike.

Posted By: srt

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/13/10 02:37 AM

Just a thought that crossed my mind reading the long story: Don't most shops maintain the right to refuse service to anyone?

Posted By: GregCon

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/13/10 03:05 AM

Anyone without money.....

Posted By: SNK-EYZ

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/13/10 03:37 AM

Quote:

Just a thought that crossed my mind reading the long story: Don't most shops maintain the right to refuse service to anyone?

Why would a shop refuse to do the work?
You're getting paid to do a job.

If you're not breaking any laws by doing the work and you want to get paid why not do what the customer wants?
They don't have to like the finished job, as long as the customer does.

It's his car, he can do anything he wants with it.
Nobody else has to like it.
If he wants it crushed into a cube and buried with him when he dies that's his choice.
Would it be a smart decision? No, but it's still his property.

Posted By: GregCon

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/13/10 03:43 AM

Since when do we look to the law for moral guidance?

It's legal for me to gain 250lbs., buy a yellow Speedo, and walk down Venice Beach. Perfectly legal. But that don't make it right, brother.

Posted By: SNK-EYZ

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/13/10 04:16 AM

There's nothing morally wrong with him modifying his car.
We may not agree with his choice, but it's not for us to tell him what to do with his car.

Last thing I knew people still had the freedom to do what they want with their own property as long as it doesn't endanger others.

Posted By: GregCon

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/13/10 04:20 AM

I agree fully. I gave you a fair chance to see the light. I'm eating a bacon cheeseburger right now and perusing the Speedo catalog.

Posted By: SNK-EYZ

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/13/10 04:24 AM

Quote:

I agree fully. I gave you a fair chance to see the light. I'm eating a bacon cheeseburger right now and perusing the Speedo catalog.

bacon cheeseburger.

Now I'm hungry and it's your fault.

BTW, I don't agree with what he's doing either.

Posted By: srt

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/13/10 04:52 AM

It's a shop owners own descision on what jobs he takes on. I checked out the shops www site and seems they have plenty of work. I based my comment on what the guy that knows the shop owner posted above: the shop owner attempted to talk the hemi killer out of it, yet he took the job on. If he felt strongly about it, tell the guy to take a hike.
It obviously was a descision based on money, not what he felt was right.
Just in case it comes up, yes, I have turned down jobs (not car oriented, but engineering) because the owner wanted something I did not feel was appropriate.

Posted By: smac77

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/13/10 05:01 AM

hipocrites !!! it's not ok to cut up a hemi but it is ok to cut up a 318 ?? who made you guys the gods of all things mopar with the power to judge who lives and dies ! custodians of history ?? come on, the guy can do whatever he pleases to the car he owns, the more people he pisses off in the process the more he's succeded in what he's done...
would I do it myself...no way, I'd buy an exact donor cut it up and put the tags on it, then i'd run a 427 corvette tripower with a ford 9 inch so I could go to all the shows and piss everyone off... hmmmmm

maybe he's smarter than you all think... doesn't sound like too much modifiaction going on anyway....easy to put back to original if one desired...

Posted By: JB666

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/13/10 12:35 PM

Quote:

There's nothing morally wrong with him modifying his car.
We may not agree with his choice, but it's not for us to tell him what to do with his car.

Last thing I knew people still had the freedom to do what they want with their own property as long as it doesn't endanger others.

Exactly... To you guys that would have "refused this job", I have to laugh. If you owned a grocery store would you not sell Broccoli because you don't like it?? If you owned an auto parts store would you not sell Hyundai parts because they are toilets?? If you owned a gym would you not let fat people in because they are slobs?? It's called staying in business..

Posted By: ph23vo

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/13/10 02:43 PM

the value of this car is probably low 30,s at best with its hemi intact..yes its rare but being a 66-7 B body they aren't really high on the collectability scale..i agree its a shame he did it but it just makes the other one the ONLY good one! so i,m sure he,s happy now! dan

Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/13/10 02:46 PM

Quote:

the value of this car is probably low 30,s at best with its hemi intact

Dan my friend, you are DREAMING!

Posted By: ph23vo

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/13/10 04:22 PM

its worth half that right now...

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/13/10 06:00 PM

Quote:

its worth half that right now...

fixed

Posted By: SNK-EYZ

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/13/10 07:09 PM

Isn't there someone on here the says "You just need that one buyer"?

Would the average collector pay big $$$$$ for it? No.

Would someone into it's rarity pay big $$$$ for it? Maybe, but that's a very small group of people.

Posted By: jeff968

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/13/10 07:49 PM

As human beings with a moral conscience it is only natural for us to try to help others from making mistakes, mostly through lessons that we ourselves have learned over life. Whether it is a small child who is going to touch something hot and get burned or an adult who is smoking we only want to help. That said, the receiver of the the advise may ignore what is said and suffer the consequences. It happens and all we can do is try.

I also agree that it is a shame what is happening to this rare car but all you can do is offer the owner advise. All the things I have read make great since to me, especially the money point, but if the owner decides to cut the car up then what can you do. All you can say is you did try. IMHO.

Posted By: b54406barrel

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/13/10 10:11 PM

Wow, I'm not going to read this whole thread but I see someone modified their car. Oh well, I bet now he'll use it instead of it just sitting for 30 years or so.

Posted By: A12

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/13/10 11:18 PM

I bought my little boy a limited production diecast car when he was younger and paid good money for it and when I gave it to him I told him he needed to be very careful with it. It was hard to find but he was the one that saw a photo of it and wanted it. Usually I put them away in a safe place or display them on a shelf too high for him to get to when they are rare or cost more than an average diecast but he wanted it and he only got it with the exception that his next report card was a good one. He made the Honor Roll with all A's and one B

so he earned it. Sure enough I came home from work one evening and he was still on the computer with the Photoshop program still making more decals and artwork to decorate his rare diecast car just the way he liked it

At first I was going to go off on him with......well with all of the stupid comments in this thread about how rare and how much it WAS worth and........but when he turned to me with this big smile and said "Hey dad look at how nice my car is now, just the way I wanted it to be" that was worth more than that piece of metal would ever be worth by a million.

He didn't burn his fingers, he didn't light up a cigarette, he didn't hurt anyone, he just did what made him happy. I have a bunch of diecast cars just sitting in boxes or on shelves not doing anything but collecting dust, my kid has a diecast car that he still enjoys the heck out of and "It's pretty cool, eh dad?".

MikeR

Posted By: jeff968

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/13/10 11:55 PM

People make their own choices, despite our best well-intentioned advice, for many reasons but making themselves happy is probably the best one.

Posted By: 318 Stroker

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/14/10 12:01 AM

Quote:

I bought my little boy a limited production diecast car when he was younger and paid good money for it and when I gave it to him I told him he needed to be very careful with it. It was hard to find but he was the one that saw a photo of it and wanted it. Usually I put them away in a safe place or display them on a shelf too high for him to get to when they are rare or cost more than an average diecast but he wanted it and he only got it with the exception that his next report card was a good one. He made the Honor Roll with all A's and one B so he earned it. Sure enough I came home from work one evening and he was still on the computer with the Photoshop program still making more decals and artwork to decorate his rare diecast car just the way he like it At first I was going to go off on him with......well with all of the stupid comments in this thread about how rare and how much it WAS worth and........but when he turned to me with this big smile and said "Hey dad look at how nice my car is now, just the way I wanted it to be" that was worth more than that piece of metal would ever be worth by a million.

He didn't burn his fingers, he didn't light up a cigarette, he didn't hurt anyone, he just did what made him happy. I have a bunch of diecast cars just sitting in boxes or on shelves not doing anything but collecting dust, my kid has a diecast car that he still enjoys the heck out of and "It's pretty cool, eh dad?".

MikeR

Best post I've read in quite a while. Puts a new perspective on things...

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/14/10 12:03 AM

Quote:

People make their own choices, despite our best well-intentioned advice, for many reasons but making themselves happy is probably the best one.

I don't see much WELL-INTENTIONED advice calling the owner a RETARD or an IDIOT or any other of the derogatory ADVICE being given. I think what upsets the holier than thous giving this well intentioned advice is that it's not a hacked up race car that's being treated to a HO HUM BORING CONCOURSE INCORRECT HACKJOB resto. I applaud the guy for doing what he wants to HIS car, before that thread hardly anyone knew the car even existed.

Heck maybe I'll put the Hemi in my 56k original mile, MATCHING number everything, DATE CODE everything, 383, 4 speed, GTS.

Posted By: jeff968

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/14/10 01:09 AM

Quote:

I don't see much WELL INTENTION advice

You certainly can think what you want but I think most who have responded to the thread are just fans of this valuable car. Yes, they go about giving advise in different ways but in the end the owner will do what he wants and that is his choice.

Posted By: ph23vo

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/14/10 02:43 AM

Heck maybe I'll put the Hemi in my 56k original mile, MATCHING number everything, DATE CODE everything, 383, 4 speed, GTS.

no you wont...

Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/14/10 03:29 AM

I don't see much WELL INTENTION advice

While I'm not a "fan" of this car, or the "beliefs" a few have on the subject, I just hope this is the end of all the......

Attached picture 6249457-mopartssenitivemembers.jpg

Attached picture 6249457-mopartssenitivemembers.jpg

Posted By: srt

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/14/10 04:02 AM

It's interesting on how a subject can be distorted into something it is not.
Some would rather see the car keep it's heritage, others would rather see it something else, or simply don't care. I simply do not see whining going on.
Wouldn't it be boring if we all thought alike?
Out of curiosity, has your buisness cloned any original hemi cars into a superbird or daytona?
Has anyone come to you requesting you take off all this stuff off my car that makes it look like a wedge with a handle?
Probably not.
Wouldn't you agree that such a request would be aberrant?
I think most of the detraction of what the owner has done fits in with the questions I've presented to you.

Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/14/10 11:02 AM

Quote:

It's interesting on how a subject can be distorted into something it is not.
Some would rather see the car keep it's heritage, others would rather see it something else, or simply don't care. I simply do not see whining going on.
Wouldn't it be boring if we all thought alike?
Out of curiosity, has your buisness cloned any original hemi cars into a superbird or daytona?
Has anyone come to you requesting you take off all this stuff off my car that makes it look like a wedge with a handle?
Probably not.
Wouldn't you agree that such a request would be aberrant?
I think most of the detraction of what the owner has done fits in with the questions I've presented to you.

While not "original" HEMI cars that I know of,.......I've had a good number of customers who have converted 69 Charger 500's into Daytonas, V code 70 RoadRunners into Birds,...along with an assortment of RT's, SE's,....and U coded cars, including a few sunroof cars, AC 4 spd cars,etc.....plus I converted/cloned/customized a lot of so-called "numbers" cars over the last 30+ years,....and I never "refused" work or the sale of parts based on the fact of what the customer was doing to their car, in fact I encourage others to do what they want with THEIR car, regardless of its "pedigree" or "heritage",....as I veiw an automobile as merely a machine, nothing more,....in fact I have a "numbers matching" Cuda in my shop undergoing a conversion to Shaker 440/6, Dana, etc

Mike

Posted By: MRVCODE

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/14/10 11:12 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

...But lets face it if it was up for sale for 100K as is it would be on the WIW board with people saying it's worth 20k tops...

Aint that the truth!

I couldn't agree more! It's sad but true. If that car was fully restored to stock and was for sale for 50k Moparts members would have a field day knocking the owner for asking 50k because "it's the lowest valued car", "66/67 are not worth that much", "the owner should put down the crack pipe","he must think it's 2006", you get my drift. I personally would never have done that to any factory Hemi car, but that's just me...It's up to the current owner to do what he wants with his/her car.

Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/14/10 01:31 PM

Quote:

While not "original" HEMI cars that I know of,.......I've had a good number of customers who have converted 69 Charger 500's into Daytonas, V code 70 RoadRunners into Birds,...along with an assortment of RT's, SE's,....and U coded cars, including a few sunroof cars, AC 4 spd cars,etc.....plus I converted/cloned/customized a lot of so-called "numbers" cars over the last 30+ years,....and I never "refused" work or the sale of parts based on the fact of what the customer was doing to their car, in fact I encourage others to do what they want with THEIR car, regardless of its "pedigree" or "heritage",....as I veiw an automobile as merely a machine, nothing more,....in fact I have a "numbers matching" Cuda in my shop undergoing a conversion to Shaker 440/6, Dana, etc

Mike

That reminds me, who's wing and nose cone did you put on Mr. Angry's Daytona clone? I've asked before but you've never answered?

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/14/10 02:21 PM

Quote:

It's interesting on how a subject can be distorted into something it is not.
Some would rather see the car keep it's heritage, others would rather see it something else, or simply don't care. I simply do not see whining going on.
Wouldn't it be boring if we all thought alike?

ding ding ding ... WINNER

The problem is much of the WELL-INTENTIONED advice is being given because the owner in NOT falling in line with the rest of the SHEEP.

Posted By: srt

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/14/10 02:40 PM

I can understand what you are doing as work can be un-done without too much difficulty (unless you install window plugs as well?).
Sure the subject car can be un-done, yet with much work, likely won't.
Keep in mind this car was a low mileage (unrestored?) car prior to ths work.
I would be nice if the shop photographed and documented the car on it's disassembly. This, keeping in mind they're origial only once.
I wonder how other racers feel about the conversion?

Posted By: smac77

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/14/10 02:46 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I bought my little boy a limited production diecast car when he was younger and paid good money for it and when I gave it to him I told him he needed to be very careful with it. It was hard to find but he was the one that saw a photo of it and wanted it. Usually I put them away in a safe place or display them on a shelf too high for him to get to when they are rare or cost more than an average diecast but he wanted it and he only got it with the exception that his next report card was a good one. He made the Honor Roll with all A's and one B so he earned it. Sure enough I came home from work one evening and he was still on the computer with the Photoshop program still making more decals and artwork to decorate his rare diecast car just the way he like it At first I was going to go off on him with......well with all of the stupid comments in this thread about how rare and how much it WAS worth and........but when he turned to me with this big smile and said "Hey dad look at how nice my car is now, just the way I wanted it to be" that was worth more than that piece of metal would ever be worth by a million.

He didn't burn his fingers, he didn't light up a cigarette, he didn't hurt anyone, he just did what made him happy. I have a bunch of diecast cars just sitting in boxes or on shelves not doing anything but collecting dust, my kid has a diecast car that he still enjoys the heck out of and "It's pretty cool, eh dad?".

MikeR

Best post I've read in quite a while. Puts a new perspective on things...

i second that , nicely put mike...

Posted By: srt

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/14/10 04:00 PM

Nice story, but irrelevant. Now, if you gave your kid an original vw bus, or 68 charger in the blister pack that you had kept for 40 years and he ripped it open and did the same thing would anything change?
Sure you could buy another because there are hundreds, if not thousands floating around.
Could you put it back in the package, sure, although it really would never be the same.
This discussion could go on forever with any number of variables. To remain pure to the point the owner modified a low mileage piece of automotive history.
Some feel it was negligent, others feel fine with it.
No big problem and nothing will change the thoughts of those that posted here.
I'm sure there are numbers of others that have read the thread that refrain from posting their feelings, or, care less what some guy did to his car.
Personally, I feel it's a shame.

Posted By: 69Cuda340S

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/14/10 04:51 PM

After he cut the floor all up and put a 9" ford rear in it whats next a big block chevy under the hood? Nothing wrong with that its his car right?

Posted By: RUNCHARGER

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/15/10 01:28 AM

That's funny actually. I was thinking a day or so ago that if the owner reads this thread he just might put a brand-X under the hood just for spite. To me it really wouldn't matter now.
Now if I could only find a Daytona to pull the wing and nose off so I could drill some holes in it and add some ground effects...

Sheldon

Posted By: TooMany62s

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/17/10 12:34 PM

Fifty years from now, no one will care.

Posted By: Race&Resto

1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan Hacked! - 10/17/10 06:01 PM

It's to bad that he cut-up such a rare car but whats done is done. Now I hope he lays down some good et's with it, does anyone here know what size bullet he's going to be using.

Posted By: GregCon

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/17/10 06:10 PM

In 1960 - that's 50 years ago - no one cared if someone took an outdated Packard V12 touring car and turned it into a pickup truck for snow plow service. Later, people began to care.

In the early 1900's, the Alamo was used as a storage warehouse for agriculture. Today it is a shrine to the people who died there and don't get caught going pee-pee on it.

You can tie a body down with chains and cement and toss it in a lake but sooner or later it floats to the top.

There is a natural order to the world that always seems to correct itself - we learn that from the teachings of Socrates and later Fu Manchu. A line in the sand of the Cosmos, as it were. And as we learned from Bruce Springsteen, don't get caught on the wrong side of that line.

Posted By: The Sphinx

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hacked! - 10/17/10 06:21 PM

So what gives the person on that link the right to go down to a chassis shop, snap photos of someones car and post it all over the internet?
It's nobodies business what the car is, or who owns it, or what the owners intentions are.

Posted By: 65pacecar

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/17/10 07:47 PM

Quote:

And as we learned from Bruce Springsteen, don't get caught on the wrong side of that line.

"Down Here its Just Winners and Losers"

Love Atlantic City, one of my favorites

Posted By: cudanut

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/27/10 12:41 AM

Why is everyone so upset about a car being cut up.Its just another toyota with a bad paint job right? This car should be left alone. The estimate of 30k for it with a hemi cannot be right.I think if it was offered for sale without engine and trans it would be worth 30k easily. As some have said maybe he wants to piss people off well it worked. Its not my car but he should offer it up for a price that would make him happy and all the other mopar fans happy. Why not put it up for auction with a huge reserve and see what its value is before he cuts on it? And I didnt call any names.

Posted By: RoadRunnerJD

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/27/10 01:19 AM

It's a shame but It's obviously a life long dream to build a car like this and the money or value is not what will please him as having an awesome race car. It's probably too much trouble finding another straight and rust free body. Plus his has a history compared to a slant 6 Belvedere clone. You can see how someone might rationalize such a decision. You can start the build with no waiting right away. Of course, you could probably build an identical car just with the proceeds of selling this one. The real Hemi car will not be any faster or look any different than a clone would. It's just a bird in the hand and it saves a lot if time and trouble for him. I would trade my numbers matching, rotisserie restored 69 4 speed fastback for it. It's still on casters waiting to be assembled! Worth a try?

Posted By: Rhinodart

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/27/10 04:24 AM

It is just another case of selfishness, it is rampant in this country and will be the death of it.

We are just caretakers of the rare art that we own and nobody gets out of this alive. If you think you own your house or any other property after it is paid off, you are sorely mistaken.

What a shame...

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/27/10 06:11 PM

Quote:

It is just another case of selfishness, it is rampant in this country and will be the death of it. We are just caretakers of the rare art that we own and nobody gets out of this alive. If you think you own your house or any other property after it is paid off, you are sorely mistaken. What a shame...

Exactly , the guy can't take it with him , he doesn't care about it's value , the next CARETAKER can return it to stock .

Posted By: cudanut

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/28/10 01:35 AM

If the guy does not care about the value then why save any parts or document the metal being removed? It is guilt about doing something that he knows someone one day will reverse. It is quite simply boardering on insanity. The chassis guy did obviously do the documenting and tell the original guy posting the pictures that a rare car was at his shop that he was about to hack on. The original post was a few months ago has this car been finished? The best part is that the board is showing a 4 dr valiant restoed to factory gold standards. If that effort was put into this car it would have been the envy of the mopar world. Scott said it first" it make me sick" .

Posted By: Aero426

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/28/10 01:59 AM

Quote:

Exactly , the guy can't take it with him , he doesn't care about it's value , the next CARETAKER can return it to stock .

You can "fix" the car later, but you really can't get back what's been lost.

Posted By: moparpollack

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/28/10 03:12 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Exactly , the guy can't take it with him , he doesn't care about it's value , the next CARETAKER can return it to stock .

You can "fix" the car later, but you really can't get back what's been lost.

What is lost?

look at the barrelcuda look what can be gained?

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/28/10 03:31 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Exactly , the guy can't take it with him , he doesn't care about it's value , the next CARETAKER can return it to stock .

You can "fix" the car later, but you really can't get back what's been lost.

What is lost? look at the barrelcuda look what can be gained?

DING DING DING ... WINNER ...

Once the car is incorrectly concourse restored to satisfy the purASSist , the repair s will not be scene unless the car is stripped to bare metal.

Posted By: srt

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/28/10 05:40 AM

John, are you suggesting it's alright to do whatever, as long as you cover it up good?
Of course, that would include doing whatever to conceal work done, or not done as in a numbers swap?

Posted By: moparpollack

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/28/10 06:29 AM

My point was they are made of metal and can be repaired to looks factory new.

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/28/10 03:06 PM

Quote:

John, are you suggesting it's alright to do whatever, as long as you cover it up good?
Of course, that would include doing whatever to conceal work done, or not done as in a numbers swap?

Many of the high end cars that are restored have had MAJOR repair work done that is hidden by spit shined underchassis paint work , why should this car be any different when it finally gets the restoration it DESERVES ?

Posted By: Aero426

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/28/10 03:12 PM

Quote:

My point was they are made of metal and can be repaired to looks factory new.

Yes, and valuable paintings are just canvas and paint. The car is worth more than the sum of its parts. The point is, the car has now been soiled. It is on its way to being "just another old drag car" that someone cut on.

As to the comment on the Barrelcuda, with ALL due respect to Alan and Keith Sims

on the fine job done, it's not a car I would personally desire to own because of the amount of reconstruction.

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/28/10 03:40 PM

Quote:

Quote:

My point was they are made of metal and can be repaired to looks factory new.

Yes, and valuable paintings are just canvas and paint. The car is worth more than the sum of its parts. The point is, the car has now been soiled. It is on its way to being "just another old drag car" that someone cut on.

That's an elitist way of looking at them, but it's your choice. You could use that derogatory way of thinking for just about everything in general .

Posted By: Dave Watt

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/28/10 04:33 PM

This is strictly an observation, not intended for anyone in particular.
Interestingly a car could have the hood, trunklid, doors and fenders replaced during the restoration process, no one seems to care. But once the spot welds of panels are touched, then the car is no longer desireable. I've explained to non-gearheads that when I'm replacing a major body panel, I think of each spot weld as basically being a bolt holding things together and that it just takes more labor to undo it. It's not rocket science to reconstruct something on down the line if the wheel house or similar part has been hacked on.

Posted By: Aero426

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/28/10 04:57 PM

Quote:

That's an elitist way of looking at them, but it's your choice. You could use that derogatory way of thinking for just about everything in general .

As far as I am concerned, there is a pecking order to these cars. Some are better than others. You have to sort them out somehow, so call it what you want.

Posted By: Aero426

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/28/10 05:03 PM

Quote:

... I've explained to non-gearheads that when I'm replacing a major body panel, I think of each spot weld as basically being a bolt holding things together and that it just takes more labor to undo it. It's not rocket science to reconstruct something on down the line if the wheel house or similar part has been hacked on.

With regard to this car, it's more a question of whether the "bolts" should have been undone in the first place. If this were 1973, nobody would think twice about cutting on a race car like this, or the viability of future restoration. But it's not 1973 anymore.

Posted By: HitIt

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/28/10 10:48 PM

I may have missed some pictures of what is being done, so bear with me, but what is SO wrong?

They cut the floor to put in frame connectors and beefed up the rollcage. Fine, but maybe that will save the body from twisting up. It's getting a fuel cell. Maybe that will keep it from burning to the ground.

It was a race car before and it's a race car now.

I'm not even slightly with runing automotive history but from what I saw in the pictures this car is not being ruined. It's getting ready to race again. It looks like they are doing a pretty decent job.

Yes, it's being changed. Yes it's the rarest of the rare. But it's not like the guy is tubbing it and sending it to Chip Foose to get it all smoothed out and pearl painted.

Posted By: new bee

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/29/10 12:47 AM

If I am following along correctly, the guy has owned this car since the late 60s, and is staring his own mortality in the face.
I really cannot blame him for doing things on his own terms. What we get in experiences out of this one-and-only life matter more than all the Hemis in the world.
The man has a long term connection with the car, and wants to do something extraordinary in his life before passing on to who knows where.
If that is most important to him, who am I to condemn him? Yes, he could go out and find a 318 car and make the mods. However, it just would not be the same (again, he has a bond/relationship/connection...stop laughing! We all do this!) to that particular car.
To get a little more insight on this, rent "Love The Beast." Any car lover should sit down and watch it, particularly with the other half. My wife and I watched it a few weeks ago, and she came away with a much bigger appreciation of my love of cars.

Posted By: Pacnorthcuda

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/29/10 01:03 AM

Quote:

If I am following along correctly, the guy has owned this car since the late 60s, and is staring his own mortality in the face.
I really cannot blame him for doing things on his own terms. What we get in experiences out of this one-and-only life matter more than all the Hemis in the world.
The man has a long term connection with the car, and wants to do something extraordinary in his life before passing on to who knows where.
If that is most important to him, who am I to condemn him? Yes, he could go out and find a 318 car and make the mods. However, it just would not be the same (again, he has a bond/relationship/connection...stop laughing! We all do this!) to that particular car.
To get a little more insight on this, rent "Love The Beast." Any car lover should sit down and watch it, particularly with the other half. My wife and I watched it a few weeks ago, and she came away with a much bigger appreciation of my love of cars.

Like a broken clock, every once in awhile you look at a New Bee post and realize its correct.

Posted By: ECS

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hacked! - 10/29/10 01:18 AM

Quote:

Owner can do what ever he wants with HIS car.....

I stopped at this post! It is the only one that made any sense. Sad (actually odd) that this guys car has such a personal and emotional impact on so many people.

So.............what other subject matter can we debate today that has no effect or personal consequence to our lives whatsoever?

Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hacked! - 10/29/10 03:01 AM

Posted By: QuickBpBp

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hacked! - 10/29/10 03:22 AM

The politics of owning a car....I am always amazed at what others find disturbing in the world with all else that's goin on. It's his car and no-one can change that...When Hemi-Fred put the Sox and Martin Duster on the guard rail at Atco right in front of me NO-ONE in the stands said boy that guy is nuts it should be in a museum...and I stand by what I said early on in this post...To ALL the complainers if this car was for sale for 100k,you'd be saying how it's worth 10-14k and the guy is

It was built with one intent and the guy is using it for what it was intended for...

Posted By: hemicar1971

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hacked! - 10/29/10 03:31 AM

I think a few people in the stands said Hemi Fred was nuts after doing that Wheel Stand, but it had nothing to do with the car being the Sox and Martin Duster. Fred is an example of just how much FUN you can have with any Mopar. I wonder how many people said things in the negative way when people were cutting up all those Real Hemi E Bodies and racing the crap out of them way back in 1970 and 1971. I own one of those cut up rare pieces of crap and its the most fun I have ever had with any car.

Posted By: ECS

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hacked! - 10/29/10 03:37 AM

I tried to vote Scott but I couldn't find the common sense selection of:

Would Ten Million "voted opinions" change the reality of this person's vehicle or what he has chose to do with it?

Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hacked! - 10/29/10 03:38 AM

Start another poll Dave, I'll vote!

Posted By: QuickBpBp

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hacked! - 10/29/10 03:43 AM

Quote:

I think a few people in the stands said Hemi Fred was nuts after doing that Wheel Stand, but it had nothing to do with the car being the Sox and Martin Duster.

Agreed I thought he was gonna lift but he never did....

Posted By: AZ-Nick

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hacked! - 10/29/10 03:57 AM

It is his car, let him paint it F8, tub it, and then race it into a guard rail, he is dying and wants to enjoy the car and you all have the balls to condemn him for doing it.... You are all sick

Which one of you has the guts to walk up to him and tell him "Sorry you are dying but, you are a jerk and you are wrong to do what you want for a last wish".

Posted By: flypaper

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hacked! - 10/29/10 04:04 AM

Quote:

It is his car, let him paint it F8, tub it, and then race it into a guard rail, he is dying and wants to enjoy the car and you all have the balls to condemn him for doing it.... You are all sick

this is the best post i have read in this demented thread

Posted By: RoadRunnerJD

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/29/10 04:18 AM

One good thing, since it's nothing but a race car now, there is no reason to keep the fender tag, VIN, broadcast sheet or even the title! He can get rid of all that junk rather than having to remember where he put it for safe keeping! Think about it....

Posted By: BS27R1B

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/29/10 04:29 AM

This car is a long long way from the Mona Lisa.

His car to do with what he wants.

Posted By: Rhinodart

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hacked! - 10/29/10 06:18 AM

Quote:

It is his car, let him paint it F8, tub it, and then race it into a guard rail, he is dying and wants to enjoy the car and you all have the balls to condemn him for doing it.... You are all sick

Which one of you has the guts to walk up to him and tell him "Sorry you are dying but, you are a jerk and you are wrong to do what you want for a last wish".

If I see him I will do just that! He is going to a better place than I am at and hopefully sooner...

Posted By: Iceman01

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hacked! - 10/29/10 05:36 PM

Quote:

Quote:

It is his car, let him paint it F8, tub it, and then race it into a guard rail, he is dying and wants to enjoy the car and you all have the balls to condemn him for doing it.... You are all sick

this is the best post i have read in this demented thread

Posted By: I_bleed_MOPAR

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/29/10 05:52 PM

Quote:

Like a broken clock, every once in awhile you look at a New Bee post and realize its correct.

Like I said in the beginning of this thread, it is his car and he can do as he pleases with it regardless of his motivations. Personally, I feel it was a mistake cutting this car up.

Tim

Posted By: ChryCoGuy

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/29/10 07:20 PM

Quote:

If I am following along correctly, the guy has owned this car since the late 60s, and is staring his own mortality in the face.
I really cannot blame him for doing things on his own terms. What we get in experiences out of this one-and-only life matter more than all the Hemis in the world.
The man has a long term connection with the car, and wants to do something extraordinary in his life before passing on to who knows where.
If that is most important to him, who am I to condemn him? Yes, he could go out and find a 318 car and make the mods. However, it just would not be the same (again, he has a bond/relationship/connection...stop laughing! We all do this!) to that particular car.
To get a little more insight on this, rent "Love The Beast." Any car lover should sit down and watch it, particularly with the other half. My wife and I watched it a few weeks ago, and she came away with a much bigger appreciation of my love of cars.

This puts it in perspective for me. The car was originally built to race and was used for that purpose back in the day. It could have been crunched on any one of those passes back then and nobody would have thought twice about it.

As far as I'm concerned, owning and preserving the car for 40 years has earned this guy the right to do whatever he wants with it. In other hands the car probably wouldn't have lasted past the early '70s anyways.

Besides, there's always a certain joy involved with watching an original car getting back on the track to make some passes for people who would never have had the chance to see it back in the day. Just knowing that it's a "real one" makes it special. Kinda like spreading good karma and keeping the hobby where it belongs - on the street and track, not tucked away under cover in a climate controlled building. Just IMHO, and

Posted By: cudanut

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/30/10 12:11 AM

Seeing the car back on the race track with the original setup would not need a sawsall. Would it? dana no good, trans no good , rug no good,the car did not need anything but an engine and trans to race as it was again. No harm done race the hell out of the car why cut it.

Posted By: Race&Resto

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/30/10 03:00 AM

I like the loaded questions from the poll above, but just be thankful he didn't do this to it, "What if he added a full tube chassis to the car". In the end it's his car, he's owned it forever, and I doubt that the car was ever going to be for sale, that's just the way it is!

Posted By: srt

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hacked! - 10/30/10 03:51 AM

We're all born terminal.
This guy just marches to the drum of a different beater.
Yes, written that way intentionally.

Posted By: SCATPACK 1

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 10/30/10 10:56 PM

Quote:

Seeing the car back on the race track with the original setup would not need a sawsall. Would it? dana no good, trans no good , rug no good,the car did not need anything but an engine and trans to race as it was again. No harm done race the hell out of the car why cut it.

BECAUSE IT IS HIS CAR and that is what he wants to do. Some of you guys have the stupid & obnoxious attitude it is community property and what you think matters. It is HIS CAR & unless you have a million dollars to get him to part with it, what you think he should do with HIS CAR does not matter does it!

Posted By: mopartoby

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 11/01/10 10:55 PM

what do you have if you take a slant six car and build it to hemi specs???.............you get a hemi car that is identical to a factory hemi car. why let vin numbers rule the best hobby in the world. i say race it!!

Posted By: badblack68

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 11/03/10 04:09 AM

Why is ok to take a non Hemi car and put a Hemi into it but not ok to take an original Hemi car and put a 6 cylinder into to build a slant 6 clone? Because too many people have been brain washed into believing that if it isn't an all original numbers cars it isn't worth owning. To me they are all just metal and plastic manufactured into shapes that we like, nothing more. Bottom line, his car to do whatever he wants to do to it. No one dictates to me why, how, or where to enjoy my car, nobody it my car. I afford everybody the same courtesy. When we're all long gone, not one bit of this will have mattered...Now, back to "As Moparts turns".

Posted By: ph23vo

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 11/06/10 05:56 PM

probably the worst part is he will NEVER get to drive it.. seen this many times before... dan

Posted By: 69Cuda340S

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 11/07/10 02:59 AM

So when we gonna get some more pictures?

Posted By: canpilot

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hacked! - 12/29/10 06:10 AM

If we don't preserve history, we don't have any history, it's that simple. There are things that given what we know, we just don't do - like putting tattoos on your 3 year old or cooking up our dog for something new to try ( in our countries, anyway ). The company doing this work is also culpable for this. If they truly cared for the preservation of history and just working ethically, they would have turned down the job. Alot of people in this hobby understand that, most don't. We see it all the time in the TV shows and all over the net - these cars fall into the wrong hands and people wreck them. Too many people are getting rich from doing the wrong thing - part of our society. Money is worth more than ethics. Hopefully this "chop shop" loses some business from people seeing this post.

What a shame.

Posted By: SNK-EYZ

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hacked! - 12/29/10 11:38 AM

Quote:

If we don't preserve history, we don't have any history, it's that simple. There are things that given what we know, we just don't do - like putting tattoos on your 3 year old or cooking up our dog for something new to try ( in our countries, anyway ). The company doing this work is also culpable for this. If they truly cared for the preservation of history and just working ethically, they would have turned down the job. Alot of people in this hobby understand that, most don't. We see it all the time in the TV shows and all over the net - these cars fall into the wrong hands and people wreck them. Too many people are getting rich from doing the wrong thing - part of our society. Money is worth more than ethics. Hopefully this "chop shop" loses some business from people seeing this post.

What a shame.

And here I thought this thread had finally died.

It's a car folks! It's not a work of art, it was something that was mass produced, there just weren't many ordered in this particular combination.

The owner can do whatever he wants with it including accidentally slamming it into a wall at the track.

The shop has committed no foul by doing what the owner of the car wants done.
They would be idiots to not do the work if the owner of the car still wants it done.

The number of self righteous people on this board that think they have the right to tell other people what they must do with their car amazes me.

Neither you, me or anyone else has the right to decide what the man does with his car.

Posted By: DAYCLONA

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hacked! - 12/29/10 12:41 PM

The number of self righteous people on this board that think they have the right to tell other people what they must do with their car amazes me.

Neither you, me or anyone else has the right to decide what the man does with his car.

Words of wisdom, too bad it falls on deaf ears here for some

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hacked! - 12/29/10 01:28 PM

Quote:

If we don't preserve history, we don't have any history, it's that simple. There are things that given what we know, we just don't do - like putting tattoos on your 3 year old or cooking up our dog for something new to try ( in our countries, anyway ). The company doing this work is also culpable for this. If they truly cared for the preservation of history and just working ethically, they would have turned down the job. Alot of people in this hobby understand that, most don't. We see it all the time in the TV shows and all over the net - these cars fall into the wrong hands and people wreck them. Too many people are getting rich from doing the wrong thing - part of our society. Money is worth more than ethics. Hopefully this "chop shop" loses some business from people seeing this post.

What a shame.

That's some funny stuff right there

The shop is culpable ...

Posted By: Commando1

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hacked! - 12/29/10 03:05 PM

I see lots of stuff where I think "what an azzole" and then I move on. That's it. I shake my head in amazement and move on. There's more of them than there are of us. Pick your battles.

Now about those stick-on portholes from PepBoys...

Posted By: Mopar_Mike

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hacked! - 12/29/10 04:40 PM

Might as well add my two cents..

Bottom line is its his car and he can and do what he wants with it..

However,

There have been some good points opposing that idea. I as well as some others feel the car should have been left alone and money spent elsewhere to achieve what the owner wants out of owning a Mopar.

It is far more than "just a car".. 40 years ago, sure, not now. It is part of a history that is quickly going away and fewer and fewer real examples are left, especially this rare.

But, the bottom line its his car to do what he wants to make him happy..

Oh, did I tell you my family tree goes back to the civil war and we have personal written letters from Gen Lee to the soldiers of the war. However, it was really cold last night up here in the east and we needed some paper to start up the fireplace.. needless to say the letters are all gone.. but what the heck, they were just old pieces of paper.. and by the way 15th century furniture wood really burns for a long time.. So long I had to smother the fire out with an old native American blanket that my old dog use to have before I could go to bed.

Posted By: Aero426

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hacked! - 12/29/10 06:02 PM

Quote:

Oh, did I tell you my family tree goes back to the civil war and we have personal written letters from Gen Lee to the soldiers of war. However, it was really cold last night up here in the east and we needed some paper to start up the fireplace.. needless to say the letters are all gone.. but what the heck, they were just old pieces of paper.. and by the way 15th century furniture chair wood really burns for a long time..

Good point.

While I'd never do it, the owner can do what he wants with his car. Hack away! There is no law against making unwise choices with your own property.

Posted By: SNK-EYZ

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hacked! - 12/29/10 06:16 PM

Quote:

Might as well add my two cents..

Bottom line is its his car and he can and do what he wants with it..

However,

There have been some good points opposing that idea. I as well as some others feel the car should have been left alone and money spent elsewhere to achieve what the owner wants out of owning a Mopar.

It is far more than "just a car".. 40 years ago, sure, not now. It is part of a history that is quickly going away and fewer and fewer real examples are left, especially this rare.

But, the bottom line its his car to do what he wants to make him happy..

Oh, did I tell you my family tree goes back to the civil war and we have personal written letters from Gen Lee to the soldiers of the war. However, it was really cold last night up here in the east and we needed some paper to start up the fireplace.. needless to say the letters are all gone.. but what the heck, they were just old pieces of paper.. and by the way 15th century furniture wood really burns for a long time.. So long I had to smother the fire out with an old native American blanket that my old dog use to have before I could go to bed.

In the grand scheme of life it's still just a car, just like an antique wood chair or old papers are just something to burn if you don't want to freeze to death.

In life people do what ever they choose to or need too as long as their not breaking the law or hurting another person there's not much anyone can or should do.

It's a 1 of 2 built because no one wanted that combination back in 1967.
Because no one ordered many that way means that the owner for 43 years loses his right to do what he wants with the car?

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hacked! - 12/29/10 11:58 PM

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It's a 1 of 2 built because no one wanted that combination back in 1967.
Because no one ordered many that way means that the owner for 43 years loses his right to do what he wants with the car?

I think it's 1 of 2 because Chrysler stopped offering the Hemi in that model but a couple got out the door somehow?

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hacked! - 12/29/10 11:59 PM

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Oh, did I tell you my family tree goes back to the civil war and we have personal written letters from Gen Lee to the soldiers of the war. However, it was really cold last night up here in the east and we needed some paper to start up the fireplace.. needless to say the letters are all gone.. but what the heck, they were just old pieces of paper.. and by the way 15th century furniture wood really burns for a long time.. So long I had to smother the fire out with an old native American blanket that my old dog use to have before I could go to bed.

Did you video it to put on youtube , that would be wonderful to have seen.

Posted By: Rhinodart

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hacked! - 12/30/10 01:07 AM

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Oh, did I tell you my family tree goes back to the civil war and we have personal written letters from Gen Lee to the soldiers of war. However, it was really cold last night up here in the east and we needed some paper to start up the fireplace.. needless to say the letters are all gone.. but what the heck, they were just old pieces of paper.. and by the way 15th century furniture chair wood really burns for a long time..

Good point.

While I'd never do it, the owner can do what he wants with his car. Hack away! There is no law against making unwise choices with your own property.

Sure there is, just try an burn down your own house!

Posted By: JohnRR

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hacked! - 12/30/10 04:28 AM

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Oh, did I tell you my family tree goes back to the civil war and we have personal written letters from Gen Lee to the soldiers of war. However, it was really cold last night up here in the east and we needed some paper to start up the fireplace.. needless to say the letters are all gone.. but what the heck, they were just old pieces of paper.. and by the way 15th century furniture chair wood really burns for a long time..

Good point.

While I'd never do it, the owner can do what he wants with his car. Hack away! There is no law against making unwise choices with your own property.

Sure there is, just try an burn down your own house!

BUT , if you OWN the house outright AND you are not trying to collect on insurance you could burn your house down to your hearts content, though the greennazi's might take issue with you adding to global warming

Posted By: RoadRunnerJD

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 12/30/10 02:41 PM

It's more like taking a house that has been in the family for 40 years. The neighborhood you live in is now considered an historic district. The house is paid for and appreciated greatly and all your neighbors are old and set in their way and you decide that painting it lime green with pink trim and purple shutters, putting in wall-to-wall shag carpets with extra tacking strips on the nice original hardwood floors, rip out the curved staircase and put in metal steps, turquoise vinyl furniture and a John Deere tractor mail box at the front door will be a good idea...and then you don't understand why the neighbors should care! The town historical/ architectural society will have something to say about it even if it is your house.

Posted By: SNK-EYZ

Re: 1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hac - 12/30/10 04:54 PM

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It's more like taking a house that has been in the family for 40 years. The neighborhood you live in is now considered an historic district. The house is paid for and appreciated greatly and all your neighbors are old and set in their way and you decide that painting it lime green with pink trim and purple shutters, putting in wall-to-wall shag carpets with extra tacking strips on the nice original hardwood floors, rip out the curved staircase and put in metal steps, turquoise vinyl furniture and a John Deere tractor mail box at the front door will be a good idea...and then you don't understand why the neighbors should care! The town historical/ architectural society will have something to say about it even if it is your house.

And that's exactly why I would never live in in an area where the local subdivision Nazi's could tell or require what I do with my own house.

If you owned the property before the historical/subdivision Nazi's were organized and you never joined them they're SOL IMO.

My point is that the property owner has rights.

Once again, would I have done the cutting to modify the car, no.
Would I do bolt on's, yes.

But it's his car!

1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hacked!

1 of 2 Known 67 Hemi 4 Speed Belvedere Sedan - Hacked! - 10/10/10 08:38 PM

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