68 440 engine restoration

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I'm confused? a 68 or a 71 440?

At any rate I'd guess a build a 440 like you are shooting for could easily run 7-10K depending on machine work, type of internal parts, and how many accessories you need to go buy to complete it (manifolds etc.).

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Hi Scott,
I know this is a loaded question. The guy brought me a 71 engine with a hodgepodge of parts on it. Everything from 1971 to 1977 including a truck oil pan. I can use the block,heads and internals. But I need to come up with everything else to make it look close to a 68 engine. He wants to go with a set of Mopar valve covers, don't care about what I use for a carb but it needs to bolt on a stock looking 68-69 intake and I need to come up with the rest of the parts to make it look / work in his 68 Charger that has AC and power steering.
I will be doing a complete rebuild of the engine with KB pistons,Felpro gaskets,Clevite bearings, probably a Compcams cam kit, all name brand parts. Then detailing and painting the engine.
I know and he knows it will not be 100% correct in every way, but he wants it to look some what right.
I told him he would have around $3500-$4000 in it and he is trying to beat me down.
I think this is very fair and wondered what the rest of the country is getting for something like this.

Thanks
Dan!

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not to mention finding 1968 A/C parts is not an easy task

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Yeah tell me about it Bill BTW THANKS Bill!

From the radiator cap to the heater and breather hoses, A/C brackets, compresser mount, to those wire harness clamps and straps, bolts and lots, lots more there's a bunch of A+M Hightech Automotive in this engine bay and car, thanks Bill


MikeR

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Mike, he's talking about only having the block, crank, rods and heads and doing a first class machine job with everything else bought new and paying someone to do the work. I'll bet it will cost him close to double what you spent in yours because you did a lot of work yourself.

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Looking for an idea on what a job like this would/should cost. Taking a 71 440 and doing a complete rebuild using a KB piston (Quench built W/346 heads)and balanced.Needs to include these parts that need to be bought. A stock oil pan,intake,exhaust manifolds, all pulleys for use with A/C, power steering brackets, alternator brackets, alternator,fuel pump,water pump, after market Edelbrock carb? and all painted/restored to look like an engine put in a 68 Charger. This is to include all machine work and assembly/paint of engine. Engine is out of car but is to be ready to drop in and run.

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John you and everyone here are absolutely right it will take more than what I have into my 383 and now that I re-read Dan's post it's going to take more than the $4k he quoted. What I have into the A/C if I hadn't gotten the help from a lot of Moparts members () would have been a about 1/3 of what Dan quoted alone, and then add in finding correct exhaust manifold, brackets, pulleys.........yikes Dan if you can do it NOW because there is no way you can do all of what you plan to do for $4,000 and for sure not anything less. I had most of my A/C components and still that was a good chunk of change, doing the engine and doing it right well I was wrong it's going to be a lot more than your quote. I just looked at a Mopar engine builder's service work price quotes and you can have a couple of grand in just cleaning, machining, prep work and that doesn't include parts (i.e., cam, pistons, rings, carb, bearings, gaskets, distributor, wires, hoses, etc.) assembly, getting it running and then tuning..... and I'm about to start on another project thanks for the wake-up call

Dan, and this guy is trying to beat you down on the price, he needs a wake-up call too, what's his number I call him at 5 am his time

MikeR

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Nice! In Dan's case, used exhaust manifolds $300, cam, lifters, springs $300, used intake $100, used 440 AVS carb $150, carb restoraton $350, rings, bearings, gaskets, misc $500, used 68 valve covers needing work $75, water pump, oil pump $100, 402 oil pan $125, valve job and assemble heads $300, KB pistons $300, boring, honing, grinding and polish crank, balancing, machine work, install can bearings, size rods, etc $$900... if you're lucky, assemble everything and paint $750 nuts and bolts intake, exhaust, heat shields, wire separators, more than you think $400, starter?, motor mounts? That's almost $4500 not counting pulleys, brackets, a/c stuff and chasing down parts.

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I listed everything out on paper today the best I could. There is a lot of guesstamating here. All the machine work will be done in my shop, except the balancing.
The above post is almost dead on to what I added up. When I was done I was a little over 5K and would still need pulleys and a few other things I know I missed. He wants a new starter, alternator,and fuel pump. I told him up front I wasn't going to do anything with his A/C, that was up to him.
Holgar, I,m done doing this work for nothing!! unless it's for a friend. If I want to work on sht for free I have enough of my own junk to last me and you a life time LOL! Please don't comment on that .
How many hours would it take to build a quench motor,glass bead all the parts,metal finish all the parts and have everything painted? I am figuring 25 hours, and I know it will take longer that that.

Thanks
Dan

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I'm confused? a 68 or a 71 440?

At any rate I'd guess a build a 440 like you are shooting for could easily run 7-10K depending on machine work, type of internal parts, and how many accessories you need to go buy to complete it (manifolds etc.).

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Hi Scott,
I know this is a loaded question. The guy brought me a 71 engine with a hodgepodge of parts on it. Everything from 1971 to 1977 including a truck oil pan. I can use the block,heads and internals. But I need to come up with everything else to make it look close to a 68 engine. He wants to go with a set of Mopar valve covers, don't care about what I use for a carb but it needs to bolt on a stock looking 68-69 intake and I need to come up with the rest of the parts to make it look / work in his 68 Charger that has AC and power steering.
I will be doing a complete rebuild of the engine with KB pistons,Felpro gaskets,Clevite bearings, probably a Compcams cam kit, all name brand parts. Then detailing and painting the engine.
I know and he knows it will not be 100% correct in every way, but he wants it to look some what right.
I told him he would have around $3500-$4000 in it and he is trying to beat me down.
I think this is very fair and wondered what the rest of the country is getting for something like this.

Thanks
Dan!

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Nice! In Dan's case, used exhaust manifolds $300, cam, lifters, springs $300, used intake $100, used 440 AVS carb $150, carb restoraton $350, rings, bearings, gaskets, misc $500, used 68 valve covers needing work $75, water pump, oil pump $100, 402 oil pan $125, valve job and assemble heads $300, KB pistons $300, boring, honing, grinding and polish crank, balancing, machine work, install can bearings, size rods, etc $$900... if you're lucky, assemble everything and paint $750 nuts and bolts intake, exhaust, heat shields, wire separators, more than you think $400, starter?, motor mounts? That's almost $4500 not counting pulleys, brackets, a/c stuff and chasing down parts.

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I listed everything out on paper today the best I could. There is a lot of guesstamating here. All the machine work will be done in my shop, except the balancing.
The above post is almost dead on to what I added up. When I was done I was a little over 5K and would still need pulleys and a few other things I know I missed. He wants a new starter, alternator,and fuel pump. I told him up front I wasn't going to do anything with his A/C, that was up to him.
Holgar, I,m done doing this work for nothing!! unless it's for a friend. If I want to work on sht for free I have enough of my own junk to last me and you a life time LOL! Please don't comment on that .
How many hours would it take to build a quench motor,glass bead all the parts,metal finish all the parts and have everything painted? I am figuring 25 hours, and I know it will take longer that that.

Thanks
Dan

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Dan I work slow and pay attention to detail a little too much, but used a CNC brideport to machine the open part of the chambers even on both heads and I have almost 50 hours in the heads alone. then sent the heads out to be done. I was unable to use KB's beacuse they don't make the needed quench head piston anymore , if you try to use I think the 236 you'll have to cut the bleep out of the heads to get the quench right and then the compression will be too high, I wanted 9.5 and with 89 cc head chamber I needed a piston wit ha step dome AND a DISH. tell the guy to scare up a set of 915's and you will save your self a ton of labor and head aches.

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The 440 in my 68 Charger is actually a 71 block dressed as a 68. I have the correct intake, valve covers, fan, avs carb restored by Scott at Harms automotive, correct H.P. exhaust manifolds, correct spark plug wire looms and heat shields, throttle cable bracket, throttle spring bracket, throttle spring, heater hose bracket, water pump housing, oil cap/breather, and aircleaner. In my opinion the 71 block is a better block because of the reinforcing rib cast into it. All the detail items we sell. The total cost for me was less than $2,500.00 including the cost of the 71 440 engine. My engine retains its stock bore and pistons. My engine machinists/builder treated me right. They are called Outrageously Vintage, a Mopar oriented machine shop (www.outrageouslyvintage.com). (Thanks Bob and Cici) The block recieved a few simple oiling mods and the heads (906) were done right with a clean up of the ports, bronze guides, positive seals, new valves and springs. The seats were hardened the good old fashion way with heat and cooling with oil They are building my 426 Hemi as we speak. As good as my 440 runs it's coming out over the winter and the Hemi is going in! Good luck with your project.

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How the heck did you do it for $2500 using OV when they advertise the heads you talk about in the for sale section from time to time for 900-1000??? So you built the rest of the engine (LABOR for machine work) and hunted down absolutely everything you needed for 1600 ???

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First of all I bought a 4 door 67 belvedere that had the 71 440 in it. I sold the shell of car for more than twice what I paid for the car. So my 440 was free with bonus cash! With a 30 year collection of junk around here I was able to put together all the 68 stuff to dress the engine. The short block needed no machine work, it retains it's stock bore and internals. I bought rings, bearings, oil pump, water pump, cam and lifters, and gaskets. The head work was probably done at the buddy price but looking back that money would probably have been better spent on aluminum heads. I did give Bob the 346 heads that were on the 71 440 which I'm sure helped on the final cost of the head work. Yes, I had a set of 906 heads here piled in a corner collecting dust. I'll have to dig out my reciepts but I'll be willing to bet I may even have less than 2K invested in my finished and as installed 440. It is not a tire shredding power house and is no slouch either, but it does run great on junk 87 pump gas which is just what I wanted. Bob may not be the cheapest price wise but he certainly isn't the most expensive machine shop and the quality of his work speaks for itself. You don't have to second guess if it's been done right or not. As a matter of fact Bob and Cici have won their second consectutive championship today in the pro class at Winterport dragway today in their 76 340 powered Plymouth Arrow and we were there to witness it! Friends helping friends has been what's kept me in the hobby so long. There are at least a half dozen of us in our group that help each other out on a regular basis. I gave a friend a nice 26" radiator last year along with a nice shroud for his 68 Coronet. Now I could use those same parts myself on my 67 GTX but that's how it goes. It's not always about the money. Like you John, we try to do as much as we can helping each other out trading parts back and forth and wrenching to help keep the costs down. When you have to pay someone to do everything and pay retail for all the parts I can see the costs rising to 3k,4k,5K and more real fast. When this hobby isn't fun anymore either because of costs or other time consuming things in life take over then I'll put my cars away, cover them up and let them become urban legends that someone may discover someday after I'm long gone.

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The 440 in my 68 Charger is actually a 71 block dressed as a 68. I have the correct intake, valve covers, fan, avs carb restored by Scott at Harms automotive, correct H.P. exhaust manifolds, correct spark plug wire looms and heat shields, throttle cable bracket, throttle spring bracket, throttle spring, heater hose bracket, water pump housing, oil cap/breather, and aircleaner. In my opinion the 71 block is a better block because of the reinforcing rib cast into it. All the detail items we sell. The total cost for me was less than $2,500.00 including the cost of the 71 440 engine. My engine retains its stock bore and pistons. My engine machinists/builder treated me right. They are called Outrageously Vintage, a Mopar oriented machine shop (www.outrageouslyvintage.com). (Thanks Bob and Cici) The block recieved a few simple oiling mods and the heads (906) were done right with a clean up of the ports, bronze guides, positive seals, new valves and springs. The seats were hardened the good old fashion way with heat and cooling with oil They are building my 426 Hemi as we speak. As good as my 440 runs it's coming out over the winter and the Hemi is going in! Good luck with your project.

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How the heck did you do it for $2500 using OV when they advertise the heads you talk about in the for sale section from time to time for 900-1000??? So you built the rest of the engine (LABOR for machine work) and hunted down absolutely everything you needed for 1600 ???

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First of all I bought a 4 door 67 belvedere that had the 71 440 in it. I sold the shell of car for more than twice what I paid for the car. So my 440 was free with bonus cash! With a 30 year collection of junk around here I was able to put together all the 68 stuff to dress the engine. The short block needed no machine work, it retains it's stock bore and internals. I bought rings, bearings, oil pump, water pump, cam and lifters, and gaskets. The head work was probably done at the buddy price but looking back that money would probably have been better spent on aluminum heads. I did give Bob the 346 heads that were on the 71 440 which I'm sure helped on the final cost of the head work. Yes, I had a set of 906 heads here piled in a corner collecting dust. I'll have to dig out my reciepts but I'll be willing to bet I may even have less than 2K invested in my finished and as installed 440. It is not a tire shredding power house and is no slouch either, but it does run great on junk 87 pump gas which is just what I wanted. Bob may not be the cheapest price wise but he certainly isn't the most expensive machine shop and the quality of his work speaks for itself. You don't have to second guess if it's been done right or not. As a matter of fact Bob and Cici have won their second consectutive championship today in the pro class at Winterport dragway today in their 76 340 powered Plymouth Arrow and we were there to witness it! Friends helping friends has been what's kept me in the hobby so long. There are at least a half dozen of us in our group that help each other out on a regular basis. I gave a friend a nice 26" radiator last year along with a nice shroud for his 68 Coronet. Now I could use those same parts myself on my 67 GTX but that's how it goes. It's not always about the money. Like you John, we try to do as much as we can helping each other out trading parts back and forth and wrenching to help keep the costs down. When you have to pay someone to do everything and pay retail for all the parts I can see the costs rising to 3k,4k,5K and more real fast. When this hobby isn't fun anymore either because of costs or other time consuming things in life take over then I'll put my cars away, cover them up and let them become urban legends that someone may discover someday after I'm long gone.

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With all this info now your reply in this thread was pretty much USELESS in helping the OP determine what he should be charging a CUSTOMER to do what the customer asks and is actually fodder for the customer to try to beat him down because he saw someone on the internet do it for less ...

I'm guilty of posting the same useless info from time to time .