Moparts
FYI Steering shaft dissection101
Posted By: JulesdaWiperman
FYI Steering shaft dissection101 - 03/30/08 10:11 PM
Not sure if this topic was ever put to rest about the so called "pins" in a collapsible steering shaft but thought it
would be good to see some pictures of one I had to repair today. The first picture shows bent shafts I received that
could not be saved from 2 different columns. Luckily the bottom of one and the top of the other were okay so I could make a
good one from 2.
Jules
Posted By: JulesdaWiperman
Re: FYI Steering shaft dissection101 - 03/30/08 10:14 PM
Second picture shows the 2 good halves that will be mated to make a good one.
You can see where the so called "pins" come from. The 2 holes on either side of
the flat tube shaft is where plastic is injected to fill the cavity that is on the solid
shaft.
Jules
Posted By: JulesdaWiperman
Re: FYI Steering shaft dissection101 - 03/30/08 10:15 PM
Another
Posted By: JulesdaWiperman
Re: FYI Steering shaft dissection101 - 03/30/08 10:17 PM
This last picture shows the plastic removed from the cavity.
In order to replace the broken pins, you would have to separate both halves ,
remove the excess plastic and inject new plastic. Make it ooze out of both sides
and voila the shaft is intact again.
Jules
Posted By: JulesdaWiperman
Re: FYI Steering shaft dissection101 - 03/30/08 10:19 PM
Just as a side bar. Separating the two halves required a sledge hammer.
If you were ever worried about the 2 halves coming apart on their own, forget it!
Even though they may slide in and out they will not come out easily passed the plastic
injected area.
Jules
Posted By: NITROUSN
Re: FYI Steering shaft dissection101 - 03/30/08 10:42 PM
We used to fix them when they were collapsed. Mopar used to have a kit. Do to liability the kit was cancelled.
Do you inject plastic back in when you reassemble?
Posted By: JulesdaWiperman
Re: FYI Steering shaft dissection101 - 03/30/08 11:53 PM
I will. It will not be plastic though. Epoxy with a syringe.
Jules
Posted By: NITROUSN
Re: FYI Steering shaft dissection101 - 03/31/08 12:50 AM
Quote:
I will. It will not be plastic though. Epoxy with a syringe.
Jules
What do you prefer for an epoxy? It would have to be very liquid to flow.
Posted By: gygeneral
Re: FYI Steering shaft dissection101 - 03/31/08 01:41 AM
This is great Jules, I've never taken one apart. But I'm wondering is there a coresponding recessed cavity in the female shaft?
Norm
Posted By: NITROUSN
Re: FYI Steering shaft dissection101 - 03/31/08 01:46 AM
Quote:
This is great Jules, I've never taken one apart. But I'm wondering is there a coresponding recessed cavity in the female shaft?
Norm
Not as I recall. The excess that flows out the holes acts as a shear point. If there was to much teflon in a larger cavity it would not shear as designed. Even using epoxy or ant repair for that matter is a gray area libility wise. But what is one to do when parts are so hard to find.
Posted By: gygeneral
Re: FYI Steering shaft dissection101 - 03/31/08 01:50 AM
So all there is , is two of those small plastic pins holding the two sections? Wow!
Posted By: NITROUSN
Re: FYI Steering shaft dissection101 - 03/31/08 02:11 AM
Quote:
So all there is , is two of those small plastic pins holding the two sections? Wow!
Why would you need any more? Its designed to collapse on impact.
Posted By: JulesdaWiperman
Re: FYI Steering shaft dissection101 - 03/31/08 11:06 AM
Actually it's more than just pins. The plastic fills whatever gap there may be between the tube and the solid shaft.
This adds friction. Trust me I needed to hammer away at it to separate them. In an accident the forces are great and the shaft
would collapse. NITROUSN, what would you suggest other than epoxy?
Jules
Posted By: KillerBee
Re: FYI Steering shaft dissection101 - 03/31/08 01:31 PM
Thanks for the info.
I'm currently going from manual steering to power in my 1971 Challenger.
From what you see will it be possible to collapse my longer manual steering shaft by hammering the shaft in and make it work on a power steering box?
Posted By: RoadRunner
Re: FYI Steering shaft dissection101 - 03/31/08 01:54 PM
I am not sure I would use epoxy either. I think it would bond the two halves together. What about the cast resin stuff that is liquid until hardens?
Posted By: JulesdaWiperman
Re: FYI Steering shaft dissection101 - 03/31/08 02:52 PM
KillerBee -- no problem, however you won't be able to line up the pin holes with the cavities on the solid shaft .
Cast resin sounds good also.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: FYI Steering shaft dissection101 - 03/31/08 03:23 PM
cast resin ????
Posted By: NITROUSN
Re: FYI Steering shaft dissection101 - 03/31/08 03:26 PM
Quote:
Actually it's more than just pins. The plastic fills whatever gap there may be between the tube and the solid shaft.
This adds friction. Trust me I needed to hammer away at it to separate them. In an accident the forces are great and the shaft
would collapse. NITROUSN, what would you suggest other than epoxy?
Jules
Jules I really dont know. For the most part what you are doing will be fine. Your work always looks excellent by the way. If one was to know exactly what the factory used you might be able to find it and use it. Most likely it was a procedure that pulled the liquid into the void. Some sort of vacuum to pull it through to eliminate voids. The repair kits were like a loctite product. You left the teflon on the shaft. Marked the shafts for assembley. Used a primer or promoter on the two areas and put a liquid around the teflon and quickly slid the shafts togeather to the correct length. Then There was a cure time which was like 24 hours. Like I said they quit marketing the kit for liability. For now I would keep doing what you are. I hear of others bolting, riviting, and even welding the shafts togeather.
Posted By: JulesdaWiperman
Re: FYI Steering shaft dissection101 - 03/31/08 05:19 PM
" I hear of others bolting, riviting, and even welding the shafts togeather."
Thanks for the input guys.
I'll stick to my method for now.
Jules
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: FYI Steering shaft dissection101 - 03/31/08 05:35 PM
Quote:
" I hear of others bolting, riviting, and even welding the shafts togeather."
Thanks for the input guys.
I'll stick to my method for now.
Jules
my father had to be cut out of a 65 mustang that he was pinned in when he tangled with a 54 olds , it wasn't pretty .
Posted By: NITROUSN
Re: FYI Steering shaft dissection101 - 03/31/08 05:47 PM
Quote:
Quote:
" I hear of others bolting, riviting, and even welding the shafts togeather."
Thanks for the input guys.
I'll stick to my method for now.
Jules
my father had to be cut out of a 65 mustang that he was pinned in when he tangled with a 54 olds , it wasn't pretty .
Back in the old days there were no collasable columns. The real kiss of death were the cars with the gear box out in front of the axle. Ouch,,,, That had to hurt.....
Posted By: VCODE
Re: FYI Steering shaft dissection101 - 03/31/08 06:05 PM
Quote:
" I hear of others bolting, riviting, and even welding the shafts togeather."
Thanks for the input guys.
I'll stick to my method for now.
Jules
OMG Jules don't weld mine 
Bob
Posted By: CUDAJAS
Re: FYI Steering shaft dissection101 - 03/31/08 06:11 PM
Quote:
Thanks for the info.
I'm currently going from manual steering to power in my 1971 Challenger.
From what you see will it be possible to collapse my longer manual steering shaft by hammering the shaft in and make it work on a power steering box?
So how about the oposite. Can a power shaft be lengthend to fit a manual box?
Posted By: JulesdaWiperman
Re: FYI Steering shaft dissection101 - 03/31/08 06:18 PM
I would say not a good idea. You would not be left with enough solid shaft entering the tube shaft.
Robert, I would never do that to you.
Jules
Posted By: IMGTX
Re: FYI Steering shaft dissection101 - 03/31/08 07:20 PM
Really nice pics Jules. You do Great work.
Thanks
Posted By: 6pkaar
Re: FYI Steering shaft dissection101 - 03/31/08 08:31 PM
Quote:
I am not sure I would use epoxy either. I think it would bond the two halves together.
Would it work to put an extremely thin layer of grease to the areas the epoxy is exposed to to keep from bonding the two pieces together?
Posted By: KillerBee
Re: FYI Steering shaft dissection101 - 03/31/08 09:00 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Thanks for the info.
I'm currently going from manual steering to power in my 1971 Challenger.
From what you see will it be possible to collapse my longer manual steering shaft by hammering the shaft in and make it work on a power steering box?
So how about the oposite. Can a power shaft be lengthend to fit a manual box?
I think they sell an adaptor for that.
Posted By: KillerBee
Re: FYI Steering shaft dissection101 - 03/31/08 09:02 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Thanks for the info.
I'm currently going from manual steering to power in my 1971 Challenger.
From what you see will it be possible to collapse my longer manual steering shaft by hammering the shaft in and make it work on a power steering box?
So how about the oposite. Can a power shaft be lengthend to fit a manual box?
I think they sell an adaptor for that.
Posted By: JulesdaWiperman
Re: FYI Steering shaft dissection101 - 03/31/08 09:31 PM
Thank you Bryan.
Posted By: CUDAJAS
Re: FYI Steering shaft dissection101 - 03/31/08 09:54 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Thanks for the info.
I'm currently going from manual steering to power in my 1971 Challenger.
From what you see will it be possible to collapse my longer manual steering shaft by hammering the shaft in and make it work on a power steering box?
So how about the oposite. Can a power shaft be lengthend to fit a manual box?
I think they sell an adaptor for that.
Yeah, I know but it is ugly!!!!(and pricy)
Thanks Jules. I have a power column but will rethink using it. Maybe look for a trade.
Jas
Posted By: JulesdaWiperman
Re: FYI Steering shaft dissection101 - 03/31/08 10:16 PM
I'll take some pics tonight to show the difference.
Jules
Posted By: JulesdaWiperman
Re: FYI Steering shaft dissection101 - 04/01/08 01:59 AM
In this first picture you have a manual shaft on the bottom undergoing some finishing work to hide some pitting.
The tube shaft above it is for a power steering application. These are e body shafts. Notice the different length
of the solid lower portion.
Jules
Posted By: JulesdaWiperman
Re: FYI Steering shaft dissection101 - 04/01/08 02:02 AM
In this next picture I have lined up the solid part of the upper shaft. These upper shafts are the same in length.
Jules
Posted By: JulesdaWiperman
Re: FYI Steering shaft dissection101 - 04/01/08 02:05 AM
Notice what happens at the junction portion. If one were to simply pull on a power shaft to
lengthen it to make it a manual you would not have enough shaft left to play things safe.
From manual to power is okay but not the opposite.
Jules
Posted By: Runnin74
Re: FYI Steering shaft dissection101 - 04/01/08 03:41 AM
What about some of the thermoplastics or thermoset plastics. Perhaps those plastic welding rods(for repairing plastic parts) have the right properties to melt into the grooves at some temperature(?). A temperature that is low enough to work with to fill the grooves and pin holes in the shaft, but not low enough to melt in the hot summer sun. Perhaps you could heat the shaft to say 250-350 degrees C, melt the plastic into the grooves, then cool the shaft. Seems like it could be possible, although it would require the right plastic - one that melts (not burns), one that wont oxidize or degrade at those temps in an oxygen atmosphere. A plastics expert could be a real help here.
Posted By: KillerBee
Re: FYI Steering shaft dissection101 - 04/01/08 03:42 AM
Big THANK YOU to Jules for taking the time to photograph the shafts!
Posted By: CUDAJAS
Re: FYI Steering shaft dissection101 - 04/01/08 11:39 AM
Quote:
Big THANK YOU to Jules for taking the time to photograph the shafts!
Yes Thank you so much.
I am definatly going to rethink my column repair now!!!
That is quite a difference.
Posted By: Canucklehead
Re: FYI Steering shaft dissection101 - 04/01/08 02:51 PM
Quote:
Big THANK YOU to Jules for taking the time to photograph the shafts!
Yes, thanks a ton! When people ask about it I've always told people I didn't think it was a good idea so it's nice to see the proof.
Posted By: JulesdaWiperman
Re: FYI Steering shaft dissection101 - 04/01/08 04:56 PM
You're welcome guys.
Jules
Posted By: cataclysm80
Re: FYI Steering shaft dissection101 - 04/01/08 08:19 PM
Yes, Thanks Jules! Those pics will help a lot when I'm sorting through my pile of E body steering shafts trying to figure out which ones are power, and which ones are manual.
I've heard of people drilling the shafts where the plastic pin is, Tapping threads in it, and installing a plastic bolt the same diameter as the original shear pin. Then grinding the plastic head off the plastic bolt so it doesn't stick out. This would create a pin similar to original size etc., and should shear with a similar amount of force correct?
Tav
Posted By: 65Frank
Re: FYI Steering shaft dissection101 - 04/01/08 08:23 PM
I'm just in the process of doing this on a shaft also and am trying to decide what to fill the void with. My first thought was epoxy too, but if its an epoxy that can bond metal, won't the shaft be effectivly bonded - maybe not as much as a weld, but close? As said above, to use a plastic it has to be fairly thin to flow in the cavities.
Posted By: 375inStroke
Re: FYI Steering shaft dissection101 - 06/09/08 05:52 PM
Why is so much effort being spent in "repairing" the shafts. Where are they going to go? You, Jules, said you needed a sledge to remove the shafts from each other. You are restoring them, so I see why you are doing it, but for the rest of us, who will ever see it? The upper shaft is held in at top, and the lower shaft is held in at the steering box. The only force on them is in rotation.
Posted By: NITROUSN
Re: FYI Steering shaft dissection101 - 06/09/08 06:14 PM
Quote:
Why is so much effort being spent in "repairing" the shafts. Where are they going to go? You, Jules, said you needed a sledge to remove the shafts from each other. You are restoring them, so I see why you are doing it, but for the rest of us, who will ever see it? The upper shaft is held in at top, and the lower shaft is held in at the steering box. The only force on them is in rotation.
There is a right and wrong way to restore or repair a shaft. Doing it right will have several benefits. 1- Its safe. 2- It wont rattle. 3- Its done correct and not hacked up.
Posted By: sthemi
Re: FYI Steering shaft dissection101 - 06/10/08 05:24 AM
It also looks like Julius is replating the shafts with a brite dip coating which will destroy the plastic..
I am currently rebuilding my column and I am going to use the epoxy method.
Also I found the perfect tool to seperate the two shafts...(Torsion bar remover on left of pic)
