Moparts
American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised.
Posted By: cloneguy
American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 09/27/09 07:17 PM
OK guys. Here we have a very, very nice original U code Track Pack 1970 Cuda. It's an LA car with no rust anywhere due to some super heavy undercoating that was applied by the original owner. We love it and we hate it.
It saved all of the metal but it took a lot of work to get it off of the car for the restoration.
Per the owner's request, this car is being stripped to bare metal (which we always do by hand) and restored with factory style primer/overspray on the bottom. All suspension detailing will be done per factory specs and all OEM inspection markings, etc.
If not for the undercoating removal, this job would have come in at about 65% of our max labor cap.
The car was either in a hail storm or was parked under an oak tree as it sustained 51 small dents on the top side. Additionally, it had been tapped in the left quarter, from the rear and filled.
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 09/27/09 07:18 PM
The hail dents are hard to see.
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 09/27/09 07:20 PM
Anyway, since this is a 100% original metal car, we strive to use as little filler as possible. So we heat shrink, quench and file each dent until none is necessary whenever possible.
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 09/27/09 07:22 PM
Step 2.
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 09/27/09 07:23 PM
Step 3
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 09/27/09 07:24 PM
No more dent!
Posted By: 340dart4spd
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 09/27/09 07:25 PM
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Step 3
what no pic's
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. *DELETED* - 09/27/09 07:36 PM
Post deleted by cloneguy
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 09/27/09 07:38 PM
OK, here is Hubert having great fun with the undercoating removal. First we hit it with a chemical stripping agent to be sure that we didn't damage any metal. As you can see, it leaves behind a film that we then remove with a needle scaler.
Let me add here that by the time Hubert finished removing all of the undercoating, we were able to fill a whole trash can with the debris!
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 09/27/09 07:39 PM
After using the needle scaler in about 12 inch by 12 inch squares, Hubert hits the bottom with primer/sealer.
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 09/27/09 07:43 PM
Here is the dent that was filled on the rear of the car. We were able to shrink this one back to the point that it needed less than 1/16" of filler. Unfortunately it wouldn't cooperate 100%. This is the before photo.
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 09/27/09 07:53 PM
At the point of these photos, we are 4 weeks into the restoration.
We've disassembled the car, put it on the rotisserie, stripped all paint and undercoating, removed all dents using the heat shrink method. Done all body work and are ready to primer/seal and block.
By week 6, the car will be painted. 75% of the work so far has been done by Hubert with help from Mike.
For those ladies out there who might be interested, Hubert is 70 years old and single. He has more energy than the other two of us put together, so be ready to rock!
Posted By: 340dart4spd
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 09/27/09 07:56 PM
Quote:
At the point of these photos, we are 4 weeks into the restoration.
We've disassembled the car, put it on the rotisserie, stripped all paint and undercoating, removed all dents using the heat shrink method. Done all body work and are ready to primer/seal and block.
By week 6, the car will be painted. 75% of the work so far has been done by Hubert with help from Mike.
For those ladies out there who might be interested, Hubert is 70 years old and single. He has more energy than the other two of us put together, so be ready to rock!
not sure but I can't see any pics... I can see pic's on other post but not yours?
Anyone else having trouble seeing pictures of his post..
Posted By: EWJ
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 09/27/09 08:14 PM
I can see all the pics...
Posted By: 340dart4spd
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 09/27/09 08:23 PM
I can see clearly now..
Posted By: 340dart4spd
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 09/27/09 08:27 PM
Quote:
After using the needle scaler in about 12 inch by 12 inch squares, Hubert hits the bottom with primer/sealer.
why not etching primer??
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 09/27/09 08:30 PM
Quote:
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After using the needle scaler in about 12 inch by 12 inch squares, Hubert hits the bottom with primer/sealer.
why not etching primer??
It is. I'm just the mechanic.
Posted By: autoxcuda
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 09/27/09 09:07 PM
Quote:
... All suspension detailing will be done per factory specs and all OEM inspection markings, etc..
Do you have pics of the factory underside inspection marks you found that were left on this very clean original car??
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 09/27/09 09:19 PM
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... All suspension detailing will be done per factory specs and all OEM inspection markings, etc..
Do you have pics of the factory underside inspection marks you found that were left on this very clean original car??
Um, I don't think I said that it was very clean but I'm pretty sure I did say that it was covered with extremely thick undercoating.
Posted By: autoxcuda
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 09/27/09 09:48 PM
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... All suspension detailing will be done per factory specs and all OEM inspection markings, etc..
Do you have pics of the factory underside inspection marks you found that were left on this very clean original car??
Um, I don't think I said that it was very clean but I'm pretty sure I did say that it was covered with extremely thick undercoating.
Sorry, in underside I meant front and rear suspension, rear springs, center section...
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 09/27/09 10:02 PM
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... All suspension detailing will be done per factory specs and all OEM inspection markings, etc..
Do you have pics of the factory underside inspection marks you found that were left on this very clean original car??
Um, I don't think I said that it was very clean but I'm pretty sure I did say that it was covered with extremely thick undercoating.
Sorry, in underside I meant front and rear suspension, rear springs, center section...
They covered everything with the undercoating and I mean everything. I'll bet they had to clean the tires off before the car would roll again when they were done. The first guy who did an oil change afterwards must have needed a chisel. So, no.
Posted By: 70440+6bbl
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 09/28/09 02:31 AM
Did the guy buy this Cuda out of NC?
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 09/28/09 03:07 AM
Looks good... should of used a steam pressure washer and been done with under coating removal in one day and had better results. You would have been able to see the factory finish and markings.
Posted By: autoxcuda
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 09/28/09 07:17 AM
Quote:
Looks good... should of used a steam pressure washer and been done with under coating removal in one day and had better results. You would have been able to see the factory finish and markings.
Yes and I would think the massive undercoating would actually preserve the finish and paint markings even better. 
Posted By: anlauto
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 09/28/09 09:57 AM
I notice he's priming right over small items such as the rear axle rebound bumpers. Do small items generally just get left on and painted over? I'm certain they will get removed and detailed, but wouldn't it make sense to remove them before priming? Just curious.
Posted By: quick77rt
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 09/28/09 02:10 PM
I guess I will post what others seem to be thinking but not saying on this post and pictures.
Your work looks to fall in line with what alot of do in there own small shops on there own cars.
Your 25k resto price seems to fall in line with driver quality resto work which most can do at home.
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 09/28/09 02:23 PM
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Looks good... should of used a steam pressure washer and been done with under coating removal in one day and had better results. You would have been able to see the factory finish and markings.
Yes and I would think the massive undercoating would actually preserve the finish and paint markings even better.
Maybe ours doesn't have enough pressure but it wouldn't budge the undercoating.
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 09/28/09 02:25 PM
Quote:
I notice he's priming right over small items such as the rear axle rebound bumpers. Do small items generally just get left on and painted over? I'm certain they will get removed and detailed, but wouldn't it make sense to remove them before priming? Just curious.
This coat is just a quick sealer over the bare metal. The rebound bumpers are being replaced and everything will be ultimately coated in something a little tougher than etching primer. There are also a few dents and scrapes that still have to be attended to.
But truthfully, yes.
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 09/28/09 02:37 PM
Quote:
I guess I will post what others seem to be thinking but not saying on this post and pictures.
Your work looks to fall in line with what alot of do in there own small shops on there own cars.
Your 25k resto price seems to fall in line with driver quality resto work which most can do at home.
Don't you think it might be a little early to make that observation?
Certainly anyone can tear down a car and strip paint and undercoating at home in their own garage. There's no question about that.
Can "most" anyone heat shrink 51 dents so they don't need any filler, etc? I know that I can't but I know my partner can and did. I think "a few" is more accurate.
We never said we are the only ones who can restore a car. We do as good a job as any and usually it's a much better price. Have I not been clear about that?
There are clearly two debates going on here at Moparts. There's the one side that says we can't do a quality job for $25k and the other side that says anyone can do it for less. I guess both sides are going to be upset no matter what.
Posted By: anlauto
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 09/28/09 02:43 PM
Quote:
Your work looks to fall in line with what alot of do in there own small shops on there own cars.
Your 25k resto price seems to fall in line with driver quality resto work which most can do at home.
I agree with this statement and I see nothing wrong with AMCR going after the people who don't have the means to DYI at home. With their $25K max I don't think people should expect a OE Gold winner....but maybe as you said, a nice clean driver. 
Heck if three guys have already put 4 weeks into this 70 Cuda that adds up to 480hrs of labour and they're still not finished. 
I'm certain the end product will be nice and speak for itself....We all need to just wait before we judge! 
P.S. You should remove the rebound bumpers and get some primer/sealer under where the new ones will go. 
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 09/28/09 03:26 PM
Checkout my 74 challenger project. Pay special attention to my posting dates and hours posted.
Yes the car is not done and no I didn't run into any problems making the panels fit. I just got onto other projects and took a break from this car. It's on my mind almost everyday, but have remodeled my whole house in the past year.
If your gonna try to duplicate the factory finishes then steam pressure washing is the best way to remove the dirt, road tar and ALL undercoating in a fraction of the the time it takes for any other methods and does a superior job. I have less than 150 hours into this car at this point and all work was done by me with no help at all.
web page
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 09/28/09 04:05 PM
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Looks good... should of used a steam pressure washer and been done with under coating removal in one day and had better results. You would have been able to see the factory finish and markings.
Yes and I would think the massive undercoating would actually preserve the finish and paint markings even better.
Maybe ours doesn't have enough pressure but it wouldn't budge the undercoating.
It's not pressure that does the job, it's water volume and temp. Steam is right about 210 degrees and some gasoline to soften up the undercoating. Gas not anything else. Here's the machine I use. 4+ gpm about 1500 psi and will turn the water to steam.
How can you do a factory oe refinish/rebuild for 25K?
Posted By: 340dart4spd
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 09/28/09 05:59 PM
Quote:
Checkout my 74 challenger project. Pay special attention to my posting dates and hours posted.
Yes the car is not done and no I didn't run into any problems making the panels fit. I just got onto other projects and took a break from this car. It's on my mind almost everyday, but have remodeled my whole house in the past year.
If your gonna try to duplicate the factory finishes then steam pressure washing is the best way to remove the dirt, road tar and ALL undercoating in a fraction of the the time it takes for any other methods and does a superior job. I have less than 150 hours into this car at this point and all work was done by me with no help at all.
web page
Great job... Looks like they had a sale on Panel clamps "Vise Grips"
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 09/28/09 06:32 PM
Quote:
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Checkout my 74 challenger project. Pay special attention to my posting dates and hours posted.
Yes the car is not done and no I didn't run into any problems making the panels fit. I just got onto other projects and took a break from this car. It's on my mind almost everyday, but have remodeled my whole house in the past year.
If your gonna try to duplicate the factory finishes then steam pressure washing is the best way to remove the dirt, road tar and ALL undercoating in a fraction of the the time it takes for any other methods and does a superior job. I have less than 150 hours into this car at this point and all work was done by me with no help at all.
web page
Great job... Looks like they had a sale on Panel clamps "Vise Grips"
Thanks, I wish they were on sale.
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 09/28/09 09:41 PM
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Your work looks to fall in line with what alot of do in there own small shops on there own cars.
Your 25k resto price seems to fall in line with driver quality resto work which most can do at home.
I agree with this statement and I see nothing wrong with AMCR going after the people who don't have the means to DYI at home. With their $25K max I don't think people should expect a OE Gold winner....but maybe as you said, a nice clean driver.
Heck if three guys have already put 4 weeks into this 70 Cuda that adds up to 480hrs of labour and they're still not finished.
I'm certain the end product will be nice and speak for itself....We all need to just wait before we judge!
P.S. You should remove the rebound bumpers and get some primer/sealer under where the new ones will go.
Sorry guys, I didn't know that every word I mistyped would be critiqued. I should have known but I didn't.
It's been 4 weeks elapsed time. There is 160 man hours on the car in these photos with the body work done and there is no expectation of it being an OE Gold winner. It will be a great rotisserie resto at a great price. It's going to be well less than our max price as indicated above.
FYI, the rebound bumpers have already been removed, cleaned underneath and primered.
I don't see how any machine could be powerful enough, hot enough or whatever enough to remove 1/2 inch thick undercoating but somehow not remove inspection markings.
I see at one of the posts above, they recommend softening the undercoating with gasoline. Our regs are pretty minimal here in GA but using gasoline as a chemical solvent is one thing that we can't do. We don't screw around with the EPA here. The guy we bought the shop from had such heavy EPA fines that the government got all of the money from the sale.
Posted By: PAINT IT BLACK
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 09/28/09 10:18 PM
This tear down of my car (less engine/trans), strip, panel fitment/reworking, minor lower patch, repaint, and reassembly, cost me about $10K and it is a work of art. NO shortcuts. Beautiful black paint job with AAR black out treatment.
I am sure if the car needed quarters and a trunk, it would have added a couple grand. But $25k for a top shelf rotisserie job on a moderately rusty/dinged/heavily undercoated/whatever car seems pretty doable without parts.
Am I missing something? Was the claim made that the entire resto would cost $25K including parts??? If so, I will join in with skepticism.
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 09/28/09 10:27 PM
Quote:
This tear down of my car (less engine/trans), strip, panel fitment/reworking, minor lower patch, repaint, and reassembly, cost me about $10K and it is a work of art. NO shortcuts. Beautiful black paint job with AAR black out treatment.
I am sure if the car needed quarters and a trunk, it would have added a couple grand. But $25k for a top shelf rotisserie job on a rusty car seems pretty doable without parts.
Am I missing something? Was the claim made that the entire resto would cost $25K including parts??? If so, I will join in with skepticism.
We'll take yours as a vote of support.
We are a shop that advertises a $25k Max labor cost on a complete rotisserie restoration.
There are three schools of thought on Moparts.
1) The individuals, who do their own work say it is too expensive.
2) The shop owners, who do rotisserie restos for a living say that a good job can't be done that inexpensively.
3) Our customers, who love our work and are glad we are doing it.
Posted By: DAYCLONA
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 09/28/09 10:52 PM
Tim,.....what do I get for the $25K, basically, body in paint?, roller?, driveline?, what exactly?
Thanks
Mike
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 09/28/09 11:39 PM
Quote:
I don't see how any machine could be powerful enough, hot enough or whatever enough to remove 1/2 inch thick undercoating but somehow not remove inspection markings.
I would love to show you someday. 
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 09/28/09 11:42 PM
Quote:
Tim,.....what do I get for the $25K, basically, body in paint?, roller?, driveline?, what exactly?
Thanks
Mike
Thanks for asking Mike. We have a whole thread dedicated to that subject in the Hot Deals section of Moparts.
In short, we will do a complete rotisserie restoration for you from start to finish and $25k is the maximum amount of labor that you will pay. (That's tear-down, rust repair, body, paint, mechanical rebuild, re-assembly through test drive and tuning.)
You'll pay for all parts and materials AND the following items that we have to sub out:
Transmission work, machine work on engine, plating, rear end chunk rebuilding, tire mounting, balancing and a front end alignment when finished.
There are extra charges only if there is either extensive undercoating to be removed and/or framerail rot. Everything else labor-wise is included in the $25k max labor cost.
If you want us to assemble the car using date coded NOS parts, junk yard parts or reproduction parts, that is up to you. We don't charge to help you find parts as long as you pay for them. And we'll do the research and refinish any painted surface properly. Parts that tend to tarnish or rust will be clear coated if the owner desires.
We get discounts from AMD, Goodmark, Sherman, Legendary and more and we pass discounts on to our customers.
If your car doesn't need everything, then your restoration will cost less, like the one in this thread.
If you have a rusty hemi car that you found in a junk yard, (as I like to do) - you can plan on spending the full $25k on labor, buying all of the parts and materials plus the things we sub out above and you'll be able to drive the car home when we are done.
I'll be happy to answer any and all questions in as much detail as possible if I've missed anything.
Thanks again,
Tim
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 09/28/09 11:51 PM
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I don't see how any machine could be powerful enough, hot enough or whatever enough to remove 1/2 inch thick undercoating but somehow not remove inspection markings.
I would love to show you someday.
If I'm ever in your area, I'd love to stop by.
I've looked at your postings and I'm very impressed. But, with all due respect, you can't possibly believe that your work is average and that just "anyone" can do what you or we are doing.
You have to be one of the best home resto guys around. Every comment in your thread talks about how fast and great your work is.
That alone should tell you that not just "anyone" can do this at home. If they could, nobody would comment on your postings or mine. In fact, there would be no need for a Moparts board. 
Posted By: biginchmotor
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 09/28/09 11:53 PM
Tim, I look forward to the progress pictures on the resto you are working on. I enjoy these posts on Mopars being taken down and built back up. Thanks for taking us along and posting the pictures, John.
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 09/29/09 12:20 AM
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I don't see how any machine could be powerful enough, hot enough or whatever enough to remove 1/2 inch thick undercoating but somehow not remove inspection markings.
Hey Thanks for the compliments,
When you said you were gonna refinish it like they did at the factory, that peaked my interest.
I was only trying to convey the usefulness of a steam cleaner for getting the car clean fast for inspection and blasting. I have been able to remove all the undercoating and not disturb the paint and dipping marks. You can't really do that any other way that I know of.
I've been using a pressure washer like in my picture for over 20 years at work on everything you can imagine, mainly trucks, oil trucks. Greasey and oilly trucks.
But anyway it's a great deal that your offering for sure. Good luck to you.
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 09/29/09 12:37 AM
Not to hijack your post but checkout what these pressure washers can do. These are the doors on my gold 71, they had two red paint jobs on top of the original GY8.
I blasted them with my steam cleaner and removed two layers of paint from all nooks and crevis.
Took less than a hour and these doors are stripped.Used a steam pressure washer, blew the 2 repaints off and left the primer on the outer doors and took it down to the original dip and GY8 paint on the jams. A little scuff pad action and the jams are ready for paint. There on my 71 below.
I wouldn't dream of refinishing a car without one.
That's all the paint that came off.
Posted By: chrisf
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 09/29/09 12:43 AM
2500, 25000 or 250000 the moparts bandwagon members are going to crawl all over you in no time and hack every detail.
bandwagons rolling...all aboard!!
Posted By: mopargem
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 09/29/09 12:49 AM
That alone should tell you that not just "anyone" can do this at home. If they could, nobody would comment on your postings or mine. In fact, there would be no need for a Moparts board.
Personally I have been doing a lot of the the resto work on my cars myself over the years and have learned a lot and enjoy it for the most part but I know a lot of car guys that either dont have the desire, time or skill level to do this stuff themselves. For a low overhead shop,I dont see 25k max labor as being too high at all. Theres still plenty more to spend on parts. I mean, how much do you really think most of these cars are really worth. Not everyone has a Hemi that needs an Aloha restoration. Dont know you Tim, but man, what the heck is up, all you wanted to do is post some progress pics and you got attacked!
Posted By: PAINT IT BLACK
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 09/29/09 01:19 AM
Quote:
We'll take yours as a vote of support.
We are a shop that advertises a $25k Max labor cost on a complete rotisserie restoration.
There are three schools of thought on Moparts.
1) The individuals, who do their own work say it is too expensive.
2) The shop owners, who do rotisserie restos for a living say that a good job can't be done that inexpensively.
3) Our customers, who love our work and are glad we are doing it.
$25K is definitely realistic. The shop that is doing my car did this one and to my knowledge the labor cost was under that amount. The car is AMAZING. The painted billboards are perfect, and the finish is like glass. It was your average 'Cuda before the build.
http://paintshop101.com/ps101_050.htm
The question here is not "can you do the job for under $25K". It is "How nice is is going to be"?
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 09/29/09 01:30 AM
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Not to hijack your post but check this out. These are the doors on my gold 71, they had two red paint jobs on top of the original GY8.
I blasted them with my steam cleaner and removed two layers of paint from all nooks and crevis.
Took less than a hour and these doors are stripped.Used a steam pressure washer, blew the 2 repaints off and left the primer on the outer doors and took it down to the original dip and GY8 paint on the jams. A little scuff pad action and the jams are ready for paint. There on my 71 below.
I wouldn't dream of refinishing a car without one.
That's all the paint that came off.
Holy Moley!!! If it strips paint that well, I'm definitely getting one!!!
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 09/29/09 01:32 AM
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The question here is not "can you do the job for under $25K". It is "How nice is is going to be"?
AGREED 100% - That's why we're posting the whole resto right here on this thread!!!
Posted By: Dartcuda
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 09/29/09 01:34 AM
Do you have a collection pit for the run-off from your steam cleaning ?
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 09/29/09 01:36 AM
Yup and a oil/water separator too.
Posted By: DaytonaTurbo
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 09/29/09 02:01 AM
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The question here is not "can you do the job for under $25K". It is "How nice is is going to be"?
I think the real question is how nice do you need it to be. If you're a guy who gets anal about the trivial things like the correct color shade of annodized coatings on your hood latch, well then I'm thinking a shop like this is not for you. However if you want a clean, nice car that 99.9% of people would think is perfect, well then I could see 25k in labor covering it. Keeping in mind the total including parts and subbed out work would be much higher than that.
Posted By: anlauto
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 09/29/09 04:19 AM
I think what Tim is offering is a great deal....
However, most people like myself get our panties in a bunch because of the simple fact that a correct complete restoration usually adds up to about 1000 man hours, meaning these guys are only paying themselves $25/hr.\, or they're spending a lot less time turning out a complete car.
What's great is that they're happy with that...Heck each guy only works 14hrs a WEEK!
I'd be happy too
To completly dis-mantle a car 100% and attend to every single nut and bolt takes time. If the actual "working man hours" comes in less then 1000 on a COMPLETE restoration then most people, myself included, would conclude that corners are being cut.
When I think of the time it takes to dismantle just the heater box and correctly restore it, or the front suspension and brake assembly....or restoring the gauge cluster, carefully cleaning and detailing each gauge....There's just no way...
However as I stated, I'm certain they're putting out a good quality = price product, and I can certainly appreciate that cause a lot of the people I do work for want me to keep the price as low as possible, with the quality as high as possible
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 09/29/09 12:53 PM
Thanks for reminding me. We sub the gauges out too. I'm sure there are other things I've forgotten as well but they'll be covered as we continue to post on this resto.
We do have other work too so, we actually put in a few more than 14 hours each per week. But, at our stage in life, we don't want to overdo.
Truthfully, we only take in three customer cars at a time. The rest in the shop are ours. We don't have any interest in expanding.
Posted By: 340dart4spd
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 09/29/09 01:13 PM
Just wonder how a Weed Eater comes into play.....JK looks great!!
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 09/29/09 02:00 PM
Quote:
Just wonder how a Weed Eater comes into play.....JK looks great!!
It kept cars from driving up the driveway and running over my junk!
Posted By: Crocker
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 09/29/09 02:03 PM
Wow!! Tough room!!
If your work if your work is average back yard garage driver resto, then the average joes work I've seen must be borderline mentally challenged, riveted, bondo'd, fiberglassed paint roller crap....(which it's not)....I'm obviously missing something
Man, I wish I was closer. I'd gladly hand over my 70 gran coupe for a respray and some detailing
Glenn C
Posted By: SomeCarGuy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 10/03/09 01:38 AM
If they are subbing all this stuff out, they are just doing R&R and a paint/body job. So 25K isn't a bad deal on the shop end.
Think about taking your car to the body shop and then having them take it all on down instead of just masking it off. This makes sense.
And yes, the EPA will be all over you if you are stripping paint like that and they see it. At a shop anyway, house, might not be fooled with but don't count on it.
Posted By: belv2vert66
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 10/03/09 04:29 PM
It's been a week or so..... any updated pics ?
Posted By: gomangoRTSE
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 10/04/09 03:03 AM
I don't see how any machine could be powerful enough, hot enough or whatever enough to remove 1/2 inch thick undercoating but somehow not remove inspection markings.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would love to show you someday.
_____________________________________________
Challenger 1, I followed your restoration for a period of time, and I think you did a truely wonderful resto. You have noted several times that you can remove your undercoating with a high pressure wash. I see you have a high quality pressure washer with the ability to get hi temperature spray. I borrowed a friends super high pressure washer (he spray washes tractor and trailers for a living). My California built Challenger must have had extremely thick undercoated as the high pressure washer scarcely removed a damn thing. I had to come back and use can stripper and straight edge blades and plastic scrapers to remove the undercoating.
I have no doubt of your claim, but did you do something to soften the undercoat B4 you used the high pressure washer???????
Posted By: gomangoRTSE
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 10/04/09 03:09 AM
2500, 25000 or 250000 the moparts bandwagon members are going to crawl all over you in no time and hack every detail.
bandwagons rolling...all aboard!!
________________________________________________
Yes it is unfortunate but I completely agree. There are 25000 hacks here. So many know it alls who will argue with you over every detail, and they will dog your restoration out over every marking, part, what was considered correct, accurate yada yada yada. I see this everytime someone wants to showcase their talent or wish to make a living for themselves or even simply show pride over their work.
In the end dont let so many derail you into defending your work. The more you feel you must answer every critic the more they will try to put you in your place.
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 10/04/09 12:29 PM
Quote:
I don't see how any machine could be powerful enough, hot enough or whatever enough to remove 1/2 inch thick undercoating but somehow not remove inspection markings.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would love to show you someday.
_____________________________________________
Challenger 1, I followed your restoration for a period of time, and I think you did a truely wonderful resto. You have noted several times that you can remove your undercoating with a high pressure wash. I see you have a high quality pressure washer with the ability to get hi temperature spray. I borrowed a friends super high pressure washer (he spray washes tractor and trailers for a living). My California built Challenger must have had extremely thick undercoated as the high pressure washer scarcely removed a damn thing. I had to come back and use can stripper and straight edge blades and plastic scrapers to remove the undercoating.
I have no doubt of your claim, but did you do something to soften the undercoat B4 you used the high pressure washer???????
Yes I used gasoline spray to soften it up, only on the toughest parts. Most comes off the first time around with just heat, then I use a little gas on the second time around.
But I never said it was easy, to hold a wand at 200+ degrees 1" away or less and doing every square inch is not easy. It took 3 1/2 hours non stop just to do the bottem, but it was done with no scrape marks or gouges anywhere. It was completely clean ready for very light sand blasting so it didn't stress the metal. Check out these old threads if you haven't already.
And I'm NOT using the spray tip we use to wash trucks, I use the narrowest tip, not the one with just a hole in it. I think it's a 15 degree one, it would blow off paint if you tried it on your paint on your truck. My pressure washer has a steam valve that really get's it hot, hotter than 200 which is what does the job.
I'm only using light gasoline which evaporates very quickly with the steam and it does not kill my grass, been doing it for over 20 years in my back yard and all my grass is still alive. And I'm not breathing any bad fumes like you do with a torch and scraper.
To the OP: How is using a chemical stripper less intrusive to the enviroment and yourself than a little gas that evaporates before it goes anywhere? web page
web page
Posted By: anlauto
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 10/04/09 12:44 PM
It's the temperture of the water and steam that does it, not the pressure. A normal high pressure washer won't do it.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 10/05/09 01:11 PM
It seems i had the same undercoating on my 69 road runner as in your pics, the car looks great!
I decided that if it kept the body that nice after 40 years i'd leave it on. If it lasts another 40 i'll be 99.
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 10/05/09 07:32 PM
Quote:
It's been a week or so..... any updated pics ?
My 83 y.o. dad broke his hip and I've been out dealing with all of that. The resto is progressing but I'm the only one who knows how to work the computer.
I'll be back posting as soon as time allows.
Sorry.
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 10/05/09 07:37 PM
Quote:
To the OP: How is using a chemical stripper less intrusive to the enviroment and yourself than a little gas that evaporates before it goes anywhere?
To answer your question, I have no idea which is better or worse. We don't make the rules, we just follow them or get screwed badly by The Man.
If you ever had to deal with an EPA or OSHA inspection, you wouldn't even ask. 
Posted By: belv2vert66
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 10/05/09 10:43 PM
Quote:
Quote:
It's been a week or so..... any updated pics ?
My 83 y.o. dad broke his hip and I've been out dealing with all of that. The resto is progressing but I'm the only one who knows how to work the computer.
I'll be back posting as soon as time allows.
Sorry.
No problem Tim.....Sorry to hear about your Dad. Broken hip at that age is pretty tough business.
Posted By: anlauto
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 10/05/09 10:46 PM
Yes Tim, sorry to hear about your Dad....
How about the car's owner...Does he plan to chime in now, during the restoration, or share his experience only when the car's finished?
That's part of your deal correct?
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 10/05/09 11:26 PM
Quote:
Man.
If you ever had to deal with an EPA or OSHA inspection, you wouldn't even ask.
Tim,
Wow so sorry to hear about your Dad. Family comes first, way before any dang car. 
FYI I'm part owner with my brother and sister of a local oil company here in town with 24 employees. We are building a new under ground bulk plant as I type this. The only underground one in Cincy. We just replaced 2 30000 and 2 20000 gals tanks and have 2 more to go,6 total.
web page
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 10/06/09 03:04 PM
Quote:
Yes Tim, sorry to hear about your Dad....
How about the car's owner...Does he plan to chime in now, during the restoration, or share his experience only when the car's finished?
That's part of your deal correct?
Thanks to all of the well wishers.
All of the progress has been forwarded to the owner by photos so far. He is coming in person the end of this week to verify accurate colors, finishes, etc. and quality of work.
I'll ask him to give us a posting of anything he wants to say after he has seen the car in person.
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 10/11/09 07:10 PM
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 10/11/09 07:20 PM
Guys, this what we started with before I disassembled 80% of the car and sent it to Tim.
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 10/11/09 07:22 PM
Ill try uploading this pic again
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 10/11/09 11:38 PM
Hey Welcome to Moparts!!
Your car is in good hands, please keep us updated!
Resize your pictures to around 460x600 and it should work.
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 10/12/09 12:25 AM
also, I highly recommend Jim Ridge over at Dixie Restorations for alternator restos. His communication and restoration work are second to none.
Posted By: migsBIG
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 10/13/09 06:36 PM
Quote:
also, I highly recommend Jim Ridge over at Dixie Restorations for alternator restos. His communication and restoration work are second to none.
That's fine, but since this is cloneguy post and clone guy doing the work, well leave him to posting the outside sources.
I'm eagerly watching this post tim and look forward to seeing this car done and driving. How your pops is doing? better better I hope. Keep up the good work!
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 10/13/09 06:42 PM
Quote:
Quote:
also, I highly recommend Jim Ridge over at Dixie Restorations for alternator restos. His communication and restoration work are second to none.
That's fine, but since this is cloneguy post and clone guy doing the work, well leave him to posting the outside sources.
I'm eagerly watching this post tim and look forward to seeing this car done and driving. How your pops is doing? better better I hope. Keep up the good work!
But it's his car.
Posted By: anlauto
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 10/14/09 03:43 AM
Tim has already stated that this particular car is going to come in under the $25K max and it seems the owner has done quite a bit of work himself getting the componets done elsewhere, so I can see how it would.
If I were a potential future customer, I would want more detailed info on 1)cost 2)time frame 3)quality/correctness
Are these three things being met?
Posted By: QuickSilver
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 10/14/09 11:58 AM
Well it is a good thing that you included "quality" of the job your paying these guys to do in there. This much I know, if I had turned over my really nice and solid cuda or whatever the car may be, and saw pictures of a guy standing there with an acetylene torch in one hand heating each and every dent until it was bright red and then quenching it with a wet rag in the other hand I would be horrified and the job would have stopped right then and there. That is not proper body work in my book. Oh yeah and then there's the filing every one of them hard spots down until my once beautiful deck lid is now paper thin. I wasn't very impressed with using the needle scaler for the undercoating removal either. Looks like it pretty much ruined the guys floor pan too. I wish the customer the best of luck since he definitely decided to get a lot of his own parts done right! My two
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 10/14/09 02:50 PM
this moparts page is vicious. the bottom line is that I have to look at this car for the rest of my time owning it, not any of you. I made the decision to send it to Tim because I needed a rotisserie paint job and to fix the minor imperfections in the body. SInce all of the other components were done either by myself or sent out the price seemed fair. I sent pics to a very well known MOPAR resto place in PA and he said $40,000 without even looking at the car. And this quote was for the best case scenario after paint removal.(no panel replacement, etc..) I am looking forward to this project being done and being able to drive this B7 Cuda once again.
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 10/14/09 03:05 PM
Posted By: hotairballoonpilot
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 10/14/09 05:40 PM
interesting very interesting......
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 10/14/09 08:13 PM
Quote:
Well it is a good thing that you included "quality" of the job your paying these guys to do in there. This much I know, if I had turned over my really nice and solid cuda or whatever the car may be, and saw pictures of a guy standing there with an acetylene torch in one hand heating each and every dent until it was bright red and then quenching it with a wet rag in the other hand I would be horrified and the job would have stopped right then and there. That is not proper body work in my book. Oh yeah and then there's the filing every one of them hard spots down until my once beautiful deck lid is now paper thin. I wasn't very impressed with using the needle scaler for the undercoating removal either. Looks like it pretty much ruined the guys floor pan too. I wish the customer the best of luck since he definitely decided to get a lot of his own parts done right! My two
I suppose this guy prefers bondo to having dents shrunken back to the state they were in before the metal was stretched.
The file is used as a "slap hammer" the cross hatching in it helps the metal shrink back to the way it was. The metal never raises above the original height. There is no filing or fillers and the metal is no thinner than it was when it was new.
As for the needle scaler, it does nothing to the metal whatsoever, not even a scratch. It's not a jack hammer. When set on low, it removes only the film left behind from the previous undercoat and chemicals.
Yes Mike, this is a tough place to show off what we do. Sometimes I wonder why we try. As long as you are happy, so are we.
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 10/14/09 08:22 PM
Quote:
Quote:
also, I highly recommend Jim Ridge over at Dixie Restorations for alternator restos. His communication and restoration work are second to none.
That's fine, but since this is cloneguy post and clone guy doing the work, well leave him to posting the outside sources.
I'm eagerly watching this post tim and look forward to seeing this car done and driving. How your pops is doing? better better I hope. Keep up the good work!
True. The recommendation was made by the owner of the car who is providing nearly all of the coatings we are using.
It's his car and we are using what he wants us to use. We are not tied to any certain brands or processes AND the coatings ARE the best we've ever used. In the future, whenever anyone want this type of restoration, we'll use the same sources.
Finally, thanks to all for the kind thoughts about my Dad. He is finally doing much better and nearly ready to go back home.
A word to the wise. If you are older and something bad happens to your health, don't be in GA. The medical people we worked with at "the best" places around here would have never gotten the job done. They seemed to be dragging everything out to be sure they used up all of his insurance benefits. He is in a good place in FL with my sister and his improvement is staggering.
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 10/14/09 08:38 PM
OK guys, we're back in the saddle now! Mike and Hubert have been working on the car and it is going in the booth for color!
I'll have all of the progress photos available soon, as the flooding rains we've been getting knocked out the internet in the shop area. (I'm not at the shop this week.)
The bottom is done in the correct factory primer color. The car has been hand blocked to as close to perfect as humans can do and then sealed with the correct red sealer before shooting.
Next week, we're moving on to all of the small parts and starting the reassembly. I'll post photos of everything as soon as I can.
We expect to have the whole job wrapped up in about another 5-6 weeks.
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 10/14/09 09:02 PM
Quote:
Tim has already stated that this particular car is going to come in under the $25K max and it seems the owner has done quite a bit of work himself getting the componets done elsewhere, so I can see how it would.
If I were a potential future customer, I would want more detailed info on 1)cost 2)time frame 3)quality/correctness
Are these three things being met?
So far, Yes, Yes and Yes.
1) When we give a quote, we stick to it unless the customer adds something unexpected to the job. We foresee no reason to go over budget on this job.
2) We are actually quite a bit ahead of the original schedule because one of our scheduled jobs was postponed until 11/15. (In my prior life, I ran projects with hundreds to thousands of steps, multiple contingencies and variable critcal paths. Scheduling and managing the two or three cars we typically work on at a time is child's play compared.)
3) The customer viewed the car, in person, prior to the final blocking and sealing stage and authorized us to proceed to paint. So far, so good.
I'll post pictures of all of the details of the work we do. The owner has done all of the coatings procurement but we are applying them to all but the dash and transmission. We are saving all of the original mechanical parts by rebuildng them where possible and the owner has bought correctly restored, dated parts wherever necessary, i.e. exhaust. He sent the gauges, alternator and wiper motor out himself and we'll install them when they come back in.
IMHO the owner is doing everything right by going OE where possible but having us do show quality 21st century slick paint.
This is going to be one sweet ride that any of us would be proud to own. We have documented and will certify that this car is 100% original metal.
When the car leaves us, it will be a tuned and running car capable of leaving under it's own power.
Posted By: RJS
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 10/14/09 09:30 PM
This sounds like a great deal and a great experience for the customer!! Glad to hear your father is on the road to recovery!! And lastly this is one tough crowd as always!!
Posted By: gregsrt
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 10/14/09 10:02 PM
Quote:
Quote:
also, I highly recommend Jim Ridge over at Dixie Restorations for alternator restos. His communication and restoration work are second to none.
That's fine, but since this is cloneguy post and clone guy doing the work, well leave him to posting the outside sources.
It's posts like this that make people leave Moparts or post very little. I'm doing a backyard resto on a 69 Satellite and never post any progress pictures because of ignorant posts like this. It takes the fun out of posting. lighten up a bit, all he did was recommend some places he had good results from.
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 10/15/09 12:03 AM
Posted By: FJ6AAR
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 10/17/09 10:37 PM
This has been a great post to follow. I am looking forward to seeing the final product as well. One question for you; My 6 barrel 'Cuda is an LA car as well and I just took the car off the rotisserie about a month ago after blasting it and priming the undercarriage in the original LA color, which was black/dark gray, not the more common light gray - what color was your car after you stripped of all the undercoating and what color did you go with on the final coating? Here is a photo of mine before blasting and right after cleaning the undercarriage with mineral spirits in order to take some documentation photos. Just curious if your LA car was the same color on the undercarriage? Thanks, Rob
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 10/18/09 12:41 AM
Quote:
This has been a great post to follow. I am looking forward to seeing the final product as well. One question for you; My 6 barrel 'Cuda is an LA car as well and I just took the car off the rotisserie about a month ago after blasting it and priming the undercarriage in the original LA color, which was black/dark gray, not the more common light gray - what color was your car after you stripped of all the undercoating and what color did you go with on the final coating? Here is a photo of mine before blasting and right after cleaning the undercarriage with mineral spirits in order to take some documentation photos. Just curious if your LA car was the same color on the undercarriage? Thanks, Rob
Rob,
Definitely Dark Gray, just like yours. I'll be posting pictures the first of the week.
This one is getting the OEM overspray treatment but with show quality paint on top so, stay tuned for correct primer/sealer and paint colors.
Hey, the owner of the car we are doing is from LI too. You guys will be the unbeatable duo at your local shows.
Tim
Posted By: FJ6AAR
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 10/18/09 12:45 AM
Quote:
Quote:
This has been a great post to follow. I am looking forward to seeing the final product as well. One question for you; My 6 barrel 'Cuda is an LA car as well and I just took the car off the rotisserie about a month ago after blasting it and priming the undercarriage in the original LA color, which was black/dark gray, not the more common light gray - what color was your car after you stripped of all the undercoating and what color did you go with on the final coating? Here is a photo of mine before blasting and right after cleaning the undercarriage with mineral spirits in order to take some documentation photos. Just curious if your LA car was the same color on the undercarriage? Thanks, Rob
Rob,
Definitely Dark Gray, just like yours. I'll be posting pictures the first of the week.
This one is getting the OEM overspray treatment but with show quality paint on top so, stay tuned for correct primer/sealer and paint colors.
Hey, the owner of the car we are doing is from LI too. You guys will be the unbeatable duo at your local shows.
Tim
I'm looking forward to following this thread to the end, especially since I might be able to see the finished product in person. I'll need to contact the owner one of these days. Rob
Posted By: Mopar-Al
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 10/22/09 03:24 AM
Any updates yet? been enjoying the read
Posted By: cloneguy
Finally more updates! - 10/23/09 05:03 PM
OK guys and gals, here's Hubert blocking the Cuda.
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: Finally more updates! - 10/23/09 05:06 PM
Cutting through the guide-coat.
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: Finally more updates! - 10/23/09 05:07 PM
B7 inside the car.
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: Finally more updates! - 10/23/09 05:09 PM
Correct LA built primer on the bottom, without flash.
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: Finally more updates! - 10/23/09 05:11 PM
LA built primer with flash. The color is actually somewhere in between in person. We never claimed to be good photographers.
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: Finally more updates! - 10/23/09 05:14 PM
How about some factory colored sealer?
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: Finally more updates! - 10/23/09 05:15 PM
Sealer on the other side...
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: Finally more updates! - 10/23/09 05:16 PM
Now for some B7 base...
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: Finally more updates! - 10/23/09 05:17 PM
B7 on the other side...
Posted By: anlauto
Re: Finally more updates! - 10/23/09 06:24 PM
Hey...Where the rear axle rebound bumpers go....LoL
Just busting your chops !
Looks great, but I have one question...
Why is the factory type sealer a orangey/red colour? Wouldn't stone chips stand out more? I can understand the factory using red oxide, but most shops today using tintable primers choose a colour close to the base colour...Don't they?
Also you should have taken two minutes to remove the leftside exhaust hanger bracket and the rear flex hose bracket. Neither one of these items were installed at the factory prior to paint. FYI
Posted By: jrwoodjoe
Re: Finally more updates! - 10/23/09 07:00 PM
B7 is a pretty color, looking forward to some pics in sun.
Joe
Posted By: burdar
Re: Finally more updates! - 10/23/09 07:31 PM
Quote:
Also you should have taken two minutes to remove the leftside exhaust hanger bracket and the rear flex hose bracket. Neither one of these items were installed at the factory prior to paint. FYI
Isn't the rear brake hose bracket welded to the floorpan in 1970? I thought I remember seeing a pic of that in Dave's OE Challenger thread.
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: Finally more updates! - 10/23/09 07:32 PM
Quote:
Hey...Where the rear axle rebound bumpers go....LoL Just busting your chops !
Looks great, but I have one question...
Why is the factory type sealer a orangey/red colour? Wouldn't stone chips stand out more? I can understand the factory using red oxide, but most shops today using tintable primers choose a colour close to the base colour...Don't they?
Also you should have taken two minutes to remove the leftside exhaust hanger bracket and the rear flex hose bracket. Neither one of these items were installed at the factory prior to paint. FYI
This is the first LA built car that we have restored although we do have another LA built Cuda parts car in inventory.
This is todays catalized version of the red sealer used on LA cars. Actually, the bright lights in the booth and the flash make it look a lot brighter than it really is. Look at the roof for a closer color tone.
I'm a little out of my area of expertise here but we were told that this was the correct color seal to use with the paint to assure that the B7 actually ended up being B7 when we were finished. When compared to our color chart, the B7 is as exact as I can see with the naked eye.
I'm not the painter so it's what I understand that Roger Gibson told Mike to use. I'm pretty sure I have the story right.
Thanks for the heads up on the left exhaust bracket. We missed that since the right one is welded on, as is the flex hose bracket on the customer's car and our parts car. Would they have welded those on after painting? That seems strange.
I have pics of the car cleared inside and out in the sun but not yet buffed. I'll be posting those soon.
Posted By: anlauto
Re: Finally more updates! - 10/23/09 07:36 PM
Quote:
Isn't the rear brake hose bracket welded to the floorpan in 1970? I thought I remember seeing a pic of that in Dave's OE Challenger thread.
Yep...BRAINFART.....Been working on too many 71-up E Bodies....My appoligies!
Good info on the base colour for B7...I'm restoring a V code 70 Runner that's B7 in the near future
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: Finally more updates! - 10/23/09 07:44 PM
Quote:
Yep...BRAINFART.....Been working on too many 71-up E Bodies....My appoligies!
Good info on the base colour for B7...I'm restoring a V code 70 Runner that's B7 in the near future
Also, the paint formula for 1970 B7 is different from 1971 B7.
Posted By: biginchmotor
Re: Finally more updates! - 10/24/09 03:47 AM
Looks great, keep the pictures coming, John.
Posted By: moparply
Re: Finally more updates! - 10/24/09 08:53 AM
Cloneguy, nice tip on the correct sealer color, the car looks great.
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: Finally more updates! - 10/24/09 12:57 PM
Nice job!!!
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: Finally more updates! - 10/24/09 04:39 PM
Here we are after the clear coat.
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: Finally more updates! - 10/24/09 04:43 PM
Wet sanding down to 2000 grit. You'll have to wait for reassembly to see it buffed out.
Stay tuned!
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: Finally more updates! - 10/24/09 04:49 PM
Next Week - Suspension.
Posted By: DAYCLONA
Re: Finally more updates! - 10/24/09 05:03 PM
Looks great Tim!,.......just curious how you guys may have handeled the roof skin/rear qtr transition, or seam, as this is usually a "curse" on E bodies, usually bludgeing on Cuda's and cracking on Challengers, even on "tight" rustfree, structualy sound cars,.....are you guys leading the seams, or using "plastic" media?
Thanks
Mike
Posted By: anlauto
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 10/24/09 05:19 PM
How long will re-assembly take? Roughly how many hours?
You're making it turn key correct?
When will the owner get the car back? and what will the total time frame be?
Posted By: Iceman01
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 10/24/09 09:11 PM
Quote:
How long will re-assembly take? Roughly how many hours?
You're making it turn key correct?
When will the owner get the car back? and what will the total time frame be?
Market research on the competition Alan?
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 10/25/09 01:01 AM
Quote:
How long will re-assembly take? Roughly how many hours?
You're making it turn key correct?
When will the owner get the car back? and what will the total time frame be?
The reassembly isn't that bad. I do the suspension, tank, brakes, lines, wiring, powertrain, etc. and Mike and Hubert do the body, glass, interior, lights, bumpers, grille, etc.
The customer sent the gauges out and bought new harnesses, so that should be a snap. I've fixed so many original harnesses that I cringe when it's time to troubleshoot them. I often wonder if half of the stuff worked even when it was new.
All in all it will take us about 100 man hours to get it back together. We would have it back to the customer in two to three weeks but the transmission will hold us up about a week. It won't be back from the builder that the customer sent it to until about week three.
The car arrived on August 21 and we budgeted 400 man hours over six months. We're ahead of the delivery date because another car we had scheduled to restore is now not being delivered until mid November.
Turn key running, driving and tuned, yes. But, the customer is doing his own interior reinstallation.
Keep in mind all of the following:
1) We took it apart.
2) We bagged and tagged everything after cleaning it.
3) Everything is like new or restored.
4) We don't charge for head scratching, mistake fixing, paint drying, etc.
Honestly, we'll go about 20 hours over our budget but the customer will not pay more than the price we agreed to upfront.
Finally, if we had one of those steam/pressure washers that some of you other guys have, we would have been right on budget. The undercoating on this car was twice as heavy as I've ever seen and it frankly kicked out butts!
We would have done better if the car had been rusty. We kick butt on panel replacement!
To the guy teasing Alan, I think we're a little too far away to be considered competition but we'll work with anyone from anywhere!
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 10/25/09 04:50 PM
I have posted my two cents every once in a while regarding my B7 CUDA that Tim is doing for me. Everything has been a good experience so far. The car was sent to Tim with no motor, trans, interior, glass. etc... He had to disassemble the front and rear suspension and steering column to mount on his rotisserie. My motor was already done and my trans is getting looked over now before being sent to Tim for installation. I will be sending him the motor when his shop is ready to mount it on the restored front suspension. Off the subject, Ssnake Oyl did a great job restoring my seat belts.
Posted By: JDMopar
Re: Finally more updates! - 10/25/09 05:45 PM
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 10/25/09 06:03 PM
Quote:
Clear coat at 12:39....and wet sanded by 12:43! 
I'm thinkin you must have used the fast thinner 
I think those are the times I posted the photos. 
The owner is obviously correct. We didn't take the interior and power train apart but are putting the power train back in and getting her road ready. I think we're as excited as he is!
Posted By: anlauto
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 10/25/09 07:22 PM
The last car I did for a customer was a FJ5 AAR clone.
The owner had the transmission and engine rebuilt by another shop BEFORE he brought the car to me. The engine was never fired, nor was the car ever driveable.
I made 100% certain that the owner knew I would get it running and driveable for him as per his request, BUT I was in no way going the take any responsibilty for the drivetrain.
I was a good thing because the engine had lots of issues...MAJOR oil leak, Oil pump failure, decelleration back firing, timing issues, etc...etc...
I offered to help him out, but I recommended he take it back to the engine builder....
I did get it running and driveable, however I never heard back from him as to whether or not he got all the problems fixed.
I'm in no way saying that this might happen here, I'm just adding this so that anybody considering to take their car somewhere to be restored should have a good insight as to each parties responsiblities
when outsourcing any componets...
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 10/26/09 01:44 AM
That's a good point, thanks for making it.
In this case the customer outsourced the trans for a build but he drove the car with the rebuilt engine in it before bringing the car to us. So, we don't expect too much in the way of difficulties.
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 10/26/09 09:41 PM
Tim,
I hope I have made this a smooth resto for you guys, except for that undercoating, LOL
Mike
Posted By: Mr. Dodge
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 10/27/09 04:03 AM
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 10/31/09 06:47 PM
Sorry guys, no update this week due to H1N1. Mike and Hubert are down right now and I'm staying away.
We'll be back on it next week, we hope.
Posted By: D/U R/T
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 11/01/09 08:29 AM
I wish you were comming to Australia for holiday.Be nice to have a quote from you guys.
Posted By: anlauto
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 11/01/09 02:38 PM
Quote:
I wish you were comming to Australia for holiday.Be nice to have a quote from you guys.
Quote's are simple....$25K MAX
Posted By: AdamR
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 11/01/09 04:56 PM
Quote:
Quote:
I wish you were comming to Australia for holiday.Be nice to have a quote from you guys.
Quote's are simple....$25K MAX
Plus tax and shipping and handling. Parts not included, some assembly required.
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 11/01/09 05:43 PM
Thanks for standing in guys.
$25k is the max on labor. That car doesn't look too rusty. If there's no rust and no undercoating, it would run about $20k plus parts and outsourcing. (If I didn't try to talk you out of that one for myself, that is.)
Mike's nephew has been working on making a website from scratch for us and it looks like he doesn't have enough time to work on it too much. So, since the shop is closed due to swine flu, I got some web site building software this week!
It will probably look like a kid made it but, my plan is to put up a website that has as much info as I can think of, including what our basic services cover and what they don't cover as well as how much we charge for each segment of the $25k rotisserie job.
That way if a guy wants to do part of his own job, he'll be able to get an idea of how much he'll save.
I know we're bucking against the trends here but that's why we're
REVOLUTIONARY!
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 11/15/09 03:35 PM
sorry guys that there have been no updates on my car. Tims crew have been sick. I think they got back to work this week on it. They are at the reassembly end of things now. Suspension, motor, etc...I think we are ahead of schedule on his end and the car should be back up north before December 1st for final assembly on my end. I know I keep pitching products that I have used and it has thrown the thread off sometimes. Here is another one. If you need an engine shipped somewhere use engineshipping.com. Very reasonably priced as long as it is crated properly. It was around $250 to send my engine to Tim from NY to GA with liftgate/pallet jack service on both ends. I look forward to seeing the final result just as much as you guys do.
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 11/16/09 04:18 PM
Yes, we're back now.
Seriously everyone, H1N1 is no Joke! We were down for a full two weeks and the third week everyone was still dragging around and coughing - unable to do very much.
My partner's wife went from H1N1 into pneumonia and is still down.
Get the vaccine. If it doesn't kill you, it's better than catching this strain of the flu.
Pics and updates to follow. The engine is being delivered today and we are prepping the K member and suspension to install from the bottom.
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 11/22/09 06:49 PM
Front suspension
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 11/22/09 06:50 PM
Engine by Customer...
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 11/22/09 06:52 PM
Waiting for transmission and a few other parts from customer and then she'll be put back together and on the road!
Posted By: anlauto
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 11/22/09 07:22 PM
You guys do all makes all models so I don't expect this to be one of those 100% correct Mopar restos...I realize the owner has done some work and outsourced other jobs.
And the work you do, I'm sure is of the highest quality, so I'm not going to question that...
HOWEVERYou should correct the major brake issue that has already been put into play....
On a 1970 Cuda and most other Mopars for that fact...The brake caliper mounts on the front side of the spindle.
In the picture posted above, you clearly have the right and left spindle assemblies switched.
Just so you know
Posted By: SteveA
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 11/22/09 07:30 PM
And the water pump goes toward the front of the car
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 11/22/09 09:24 PM
Quote:
You guys do all makes all models so I don't expect this to be one of those 100% correct Mopar restos...I realize the owner has done some work and outsourced other jobs.
And the work you do, I'm sure is of the highest quality, so I'm not going to question that...
HOWEVER
You should correct the major brake issue that has already been put into play....
On a 1970 Cuda and most other Mopars for that fact...The brake caliper mounts on the front side of the spindle.
In the picture posted above, you clearly have the right and left spindle assemblies switched.
Just so you know
"The parts store must of given me the wrong hoses"
When it comes time to install the brake hoses...
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 11/22/09 10:00 PM
Thanks for that tidbit of important info. Better to hear that now than when those "wrong" brake hoses show up!
Glad we didn't have the K member upside down.
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 11/23/09 12:41 AM
alan,
I think my car will be pretty damn good when it is done.
Posted By: anlauto
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 11/23/09 01:09 AM
Quote:
alan,
I think my car will be pretty damn good when it is done.
I'm sure it will....
I was only trying to help by pointing out an obivious error in assembly...
It's just as important in any restoration to have a correct, safe operable car as well as a nice looking car in my opinion.
Posted By: Chilort
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 11/23/09 01:28 AM
Looking nice. If I were staying in the area, I'd certainly consider you all for my '70 Bee. I was quoted $30k for a paint job from a shop a few years ago. I guess they wanted me to walk away because that's what I did. I've since learned how to do much of that work myself. I figured if I f'ed it up twice I'd still come out ahead.
If you need a good machine shop, a guy that's not afraid to touch a thing, I know a great guy over in Norcross.
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 11/23/09 05:41 PM
Quote:
Quote:
alan,
I think my car will be pretty damn good when it is done.
I'm sure it will....
I was only trying to help by pointing out an obivious error in assembly...
It's just as important in any restoration to have a correct, safe operable car as well as a nice looking car in my opinion.
And we do appreciate the help.
I'm pretty sure we would have caught that when it was time to install the K member and hook things up but it's much easier to fix it now. And it was the first thing we did this morning.
Posted By: anlauto
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 12/08/09 06:55 PM
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 12/09/09 02:32 AM
Alan,
I am waiting for my transmission to shipped to Tim. I think they are done with everything else that is why there have been no pics. Stay patient everyone, I am looking forward to the final assembly just as much as you are.
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 12/09/09 05:49 PM
Quote:
Oct.24 2009
Quote:
All in all it will take us about 100 man hours to get it back together. We would have it back to the customer in two to three weeks but the transmission will hold us up about a week. It won't be back from the builder that the customer sent it to until about week three.
Shouldn't this car be finished now?
Where's the updated progress pictures? Come on Tim, put down the wrenchs and take some pictures
Yes, we had hoped it would be done by now but honestly, we haven't done too much on it since the last posting.
The owner has done some stellar work on components he has resored himself which unfortunately had to be shipped via freight to us and that has taken some time. Some of the bigger components just arrived last week.
We are still waiting for the transmission and a few odds and ends. When everything is here, we'll jump back in and Get-R-Done.
Before you ask, yes there were things that could have been reinstalled but I'm sure you all know that it can be frustrating to start and stop and start and stop, etc....... 
You are all going to love this baby when it's done!!! Frankly, like most of the cars we do, I wish we could keep it for ourselves. 
I don't know about the rest of the guys in the business but, I have some pretty cool cars myself and they never seem to get worked on. 
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 12/10/09 04:54 PM
i hate to keep annoying everyone with my recommendations for people to use for component restoration but plumbeeper.com restored my steering wheel and did an excellent job.
Posted By: biginchmotor
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 12/10/09 11:01 PM
I do not get annoyed with your posts, keep them coming. Can not wait to see more progress pictures of the restoration. You should post some pictures of the services you have had done in another thread, John.
Posted By: SomeCarGuy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 12/11/09 01:00 AM
Anybody see the 12 per hour ad in MCG recently? Advertised they would do work on I think 62-65 stuff for that rate.
I figure if people are puzzled by this company's pricing, that will really get out the boo birds.
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 12/24/09 05:22 PM
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 12/28/09 07:37 PM
We got a little bit done last week. Santa slowed us down but we're getting back up to speed.
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 12/28/09 07:38 PM
Fuel lines...
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 12/28/09 07:41 PM
Trans...
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 12/28/09 07:44 PM
Engine and trans on the dolly...
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise *DELETED* - 12/28/09 09:01 PM
Posted By: Mike Mancini
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 12/28/09 09:05 PM
Frank Badalson did a great job on the transmission, nice!
Posted By: DAYCLONA
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 12/28/09 10:19 PM
Frank Badalson (richmond, va) did the extremely meticulous detailing and assembly.
Looks like it coming together nicely,....BTW, did Frank do an alternator for you?
Posted By: anlauto
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 12/28/09 10:21 PM
Quote:
Frank Badalson did a great job on the transmission, nice!
I hope he didn't charge too much 
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise *DELETED* - 12/29/09 11:30 PM
Organosol...
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise *DELETED* - 12/29/09 11:31 PM
More...
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise *DELETED* - 12/29/09 11:32 PM
Heater and insulation.
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise *DELETED* - 12/29/09 11:33 PM
Dash.
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 12/31/09 02:22 AM
it was not cheap but supposedly he is one of the best out there and since my motor was done already I wanted the trans to be as nice. the whole trans job cost around $2400 and yes I think it was a little expensive.
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 12/31/09 02:30 AM
frank did not do my alternator. he sent me to his alternator guy Jim Ridge from Dixie Restorations. Jim is a class act all the way from service to customer relations. Jim comes highly recommended from a lot of people in the MOPAR world and now comes recommended from me as well. When you send an alternator to Jim for restoration, he documents every last detail and sends it to you on a CD once the job is done. He is very careful with the alternators and he goes out of his way not to ruin date codes, etc. on the alts..
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 12/31/09 02:32 AM
Quote:
Dash.
Mike Mancini (Instrument specialties) restored my gauge cluster. Another homerun to deal with in the resto world.
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 12/31/09 02:38 AM
Quote:
Heater and insulation.
Guys, that heater box just needed a minor cleanup and resto which I was able to do in house. The original finish is still there and no cracked parts. Jules Daddio did my heater and windshield motors. The rest was carefully cleaned or light media was used on the parts. New, but correct rivets were used as well as necessary HW replated. The gasket set from Detroit Muscle Technologies was very helpful. I hope Tim can post a pic of the driver side airbox before it goes in. That also needed a minor reconditioning and came out great!
Posted By: anlauto
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 12/31/09 02:57 AM
Quote:
the whole trans job cost around $2400 and yes I think it was a little expensive.
I'm speachless.........
Posted By: DAYCLONA
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 12/31/09 04:52 AM
Quote:
Quote:
the whole trans job cost around $2400 and yes I think it was a little expensive.
I'm speachless.........
Was that tranny job, with, or without "lube" ....JK, I couldn't help myself after seeing that price!
Posted By: 340dart4spd
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 12/31/09 05:06 AM
Quote:
it was not cheap but supposedly he is one of the best out there and since my motor was done already I wanted the trans to be as nice. the whole trans job cost around $2400 and yes I think it was a little expensive.
WOW... I personaly think you could have had 3 of maybe even 4 at that price...... What did he replace every single piece in it.....
Posted By: MLR426
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 12/31/09 03:13 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
the whole trans job cost around $2400 and yes I think it was a little expensive.
I'm speachless.........
Was that tranny job, with, or without "lube" ....JK, I couldn't help myself after seeing that price!
The lube was added for free.
logan426
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 12/31/09 05:14 PM
I was not thrilled when i got the bill and there was no lube included
. LESSON LEARNED on my end. It was not even for a full rebuild either. I respect Frank and am not badmouthing him but i did not expect that job to be that much. i was figuring 800-1000.
Posted By: DAYCLONA
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 12/31/09 05:29 PM
Quote:
I was not thrilled when i got the bill and there was no lube included . LESSON LEARNED on my end. It was not even for a full rebuild either. I respect Frank and am not badmouthing him but i did not expect that job to be that much. i was figuring 800-1000.
Wow!,....so Frank "gave" it to you dry 
Posted By: MLR426
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 12/31/09 05:33 PM
Quote:
I was not thrilled when i got the bill and there was no lube included . LESSON LEARNED on my end. It was not even for a full rebuild either. I respect Frank and am not badmouthing him but i did not expect that job to be that much. i was figuring 800-1000.
Ask for qoutes and expect 10-15% more.
2,400 is just nuts.
logan426
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 12/31/09 05:56 PM
The K member is in place with engine and trans...
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 12/31/09 05:58 PM
Suspension in place...
Posted By: anlauto
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 12/31/09 06:27 PM
Again:- - - - Just helping out...
1)The Upper Control Arm bolts appear to be in wrong (pictures blurry, kinda hard to tell) The nut/lock washer should go on the engine compartment side and the bolt head should be on the suspension side.
2)Master cylinder should be painted black with the power booster.
3)On a big block the fuel pump also recieved orange overspray, if not completly painted orange.
You got ripped on the transmission rebuild bill for sure, but at least Tim's giving you cheap body and paint work and assembly work
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 12/31/09 07:45 PM
Thanks for the tips...
1) We'll double check. If nothing else, it seems like it would be easier to put in that way.
2) Thought this was the original master and had no signs of black paint but will double check.
3) Will let the owner decide if he wants us to spray the pump.
Thanks again.
Posted By: mickm
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 12/31/09 07:56 PM
Quote:
1)The Upper Control Arm bolts appear to be in wrong (pictures blurry, kinda hard to tell)....
yes, it's kind of hard to tell FROM SUCH A SMALL PICTURE
nudge nudge, wink wink, know what i mean? say no more, saaaaay no more!!!
Posted By: MLR426
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 12/31/09 08:09 PM
Quote:
Quote:
I was not thrilled when i got the bill and there was no lube included . LESSON LEARNED on my end. It was not even for a full rebuild either. I respect Frank and am not badmouthing him but i did not expect that job to be that much. i was figuring 800-1000.
Wow!,....so Frank "gave" it to you dry
Yes Mike it sounds like he got it back DRY, no lube.
logan426 
Scott this is my sign stop using it.
Posted By: RJS
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/01/10 04:26 PM
Could you list EXACTLY what was done to your trans to warrant that cost???
Posted By: 6bblgt
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/01/10 04:47 PM
Isn't that a drum brake master cylinder?
I could be wrong, but ....
1970
power drum brakes e-bodies had black painted boosters and "natural" master cylinders.
The drum brake master cylinder should have the bolt on cap NOT the bail-wire captured cap.
Posted By: THESHAKERPROJECT
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/01/10 04:50 PM
Quote:
Could you list EXACTLY what was done to your trans to warrant that cost???
I had Frank and his bodyman visit me last year for an estemate to finish my Challenger body (after the metalcrafting was done at another shop ) and to just finish the paint and bodywork he was talkin $45-$50k PLUS 6K to 7K for materials !! I have no idea where he gets his prices. In your case, he probally sent the tranny to Passons and detailed it when he got it back. Frank is great at getting the details correct but I doubt if he even touched the inside of your trans. That price is just stupid high. Next time send it to Brewers or Passons and do the detailing yourself. BTW, get out the vinigar and dip those front rotors already.
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/01/10 04:52 PM
When there is time, I will scan the receipts and you can all go to town on the fees that were incurred. The mechanical work itself was not expensive. The plating costs were out of control. The bottom line it was a hard lesson to learn but I am sure that Frank and his crew did everything correctly. Lets move on to a new topic with this resto, LOL....
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/01/10 04:54 PM
Quote:
Isn't that a drum brake master cylinder?
I could be wrong, but ....
1970 power drum brakes e-bodies had black painted boosters and "natural" master cylinders.
The drum brake master cylinder should have the bolt on cap NOT the bail-wire captured cap.
the car came stock with drums in the rear and discs in the front
Posted By: THESHAKERPROJECT
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/01/10 04:56 PM
Quote:
I could be wrong, but ....
1970 power drum brakes e-bodies had black painted boosters and "natural" master cylinders.
The master cylinder should have the bolt on cap NOT the bail-wire captured cap.
Is this not a disk brake car ? The master in the pic above looks like a drum brake master ??
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/01/10 04:56 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Could you list EXACTLY what was done to your trans to warrant that cost???
I had Frank and his bodyman visit me last year for an estemate to finish my Challenger body (after the metalcrafting was done at another shop ) and to just finish the paint and bodywork he was talkin $45-$50k PLUS 6K to 7K for materials !! I have no idea where he gets his prices. In your case, he probally sent the tranny to Passons and detailed it when he got it back. Frank is great at getting the details correct but I doubt if he even touched the inside of your trans. That price is just stupid high. Next time send it to Brewers or Passons and do the detailing yourself. BTW, get out the vinigar and dip those front rotors already.
When you have national notoriety on these restos like he does, I guess that means you can charge whatever you want., LOL. Again and again, lesson learned.
Posted By: anlauto
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/01/10 05:01 PM
Ok...I won't question the cost, or even the level of detail. I'm a hugh fan of Frank/Roger's work.
However:
What "plating" are we talking about on a 4 spd transmission?
Here's a picture of one I did awhile back...
It cost about $700 to have a new brass & seal kit installed by a reputable tranny shop, and then I detailed it my self.
.JPG "5703076-RestoredTransmission(1).JPG")
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/01/10 05:15 PM
Quote:
Again and again, lesson learned.
Hello,
Lesson learned should be, "never to disclose what it costs on Moparts or to anyone".
lol
Your car will be very nice when done! Congrats
Posted By: Snoopy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/01/10 05:45 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Isn't that a drum brake master cylinder?
I could be wrong, but ....
1970 power drum brakes e-bodies had black painted boosters and "natural" master cylinders.
The drum brake master cylinder should have the bolt on cap NOT the bail-wire captured cap.
the car came stock with drums in the rear and disc's in the front
You have the wrong master cylinder. You need one for disc brakes, casting number should be 2229171.
Courtesy of Mastershake340.
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/01/10 06:30 PM
Quote:
Ok...I won't question the cost, or even the level of detail. I'm a hugh fan of Frank/Roger's work.
However:
What "plating" are we talking about on a 4 spd transmission?
Here's a picture of one I did awhile back...
It cost about $700 to have a new brass & seal kit installed by a reputable tranny shop, and then I detailed it my self.
alan,
this is why i have to upload the receipts so you can nickel and dime this thing to death. i appreciate your info when it comes along. Obviously you can do it cheaper because restorations are your living. (I assume). Now that I have this knowledge, I can do this differently next time when I start the next one. Frank did not send the trans to Passons or Brewers. It went to Performance Counts Automotive in Virginia.
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/01/10 06:35 PM
The Moparts jury is still out on some of the details here but in defense of the owner, I want to state the following:
1) This is an LA built car and I think we've all seen some discrepancies on those cars.
2) The current owner is still in touch with the original owner, who has great info as to what is and is not original on this low mile car.
3) The owner has detailed photos of everything before the car was disassembled.
4) Almost everything, even the hoses were original on this car when the resto began.
5) Right or wrong, we believe this is the original master that this car was built with and it wasn't the black one.
6) The original fuel pump did not have overspray.
7) Everything might not be per spec but it is being restored, to the best of our abilities, they way we believe it was originally built.
8) THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT.
If he decides he wants us to overspray the fuel pump or install a diferent master, we'll do it at no extra charge.
Posted By: 6bblgt
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/01/10 06:43 PM
Anyone have pics of Mel Major's "survivor" '70 LA built 440 4bbl car? I think his car is a 4.10 car & would have PDBs. I'm sure I have a magazine here with it somewhere.
Posted By: anlauto
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/01/10 07:44 PM
One important fact to remember when restoring anybody's 70 Cuda is that these are 40 year old cars. Parts got changed out all the time reguardless of how many owners it had or how many pictures were taken.
In the case of where an item is different then the norm (by that I mean the normal ones found and generally accepted by the judging public) without some sort of ROCK BOTTOM evidence (ie: pictures taken when the car was BRAND NEW)then it's in the best interest of the person(s) restoring the car to follow the norm.
For example...Lets say the previous owner had a picture of this car taking in 1971 and it clearly had that style of master cylinder on it, and to the best of his 40 year old memory, he can't remember it ever being changed.....THAT DOES NOT MAKE IT CORRECT.
I cannot argue that it's not correct as much as he can not argue that is is.
THEREFORE: The best option is to use the master cylinder that all the parts books say is correct and all the people viewing or judging the car say is correct and paint it the way that is most accepted as being correct.
As far as my understanding goes the crimpped style booster (midland ross I believe) all arrived assembled at the factory with the master cylinder and check valve, the entire unit was painted black together as an assembly.
When I state that things are "wrong" ...I'm referring to things being against the "norm" I'm sure there're variables
I'm only trying to help Tim and his gang restore the best Cuda they can.
Posted By: gomangoRTSE
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/01/10 10:20 PM
Quote:
Quote:
it was not cheap but supposedly he is one of the best out there and since my motor was done already I wanted the trans to be as nice. the whole trans job cost around $2400 and yes I think it was a little expensive.
WOW... I personaly think you could have had 3 of maybe even 4 at that price...... What did he replace every single piece in it.....
_________________________________________________
Frank or no Frank thats absolutely ridiculous unless you you specifically asked for an all out competition transmission. I mean Geezus I know who to avoid. (mental note made here)
Posted By: 340dart4spd
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/01/10 10:28 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
it was not cheap but supposedly he is one of the best out there and since my motor was done already I wanted the trans to be as nice. the whole trans job cost around $2400 and yes I think it was a little expensive.
WOW... I personaly think you could have had 3 of maybe even 4 at that price...... What did he replace every single piece in it.....
_________________________________________________
Frank or no Frank thats absolutely ridiculous unless you you specifically asked for an all out competition transmission. I mean Geezus I know who to avoid. (mental note made here)
Who are you refering to in this post.. his or mine
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/01/10 10:29 PM
Quote:
One important fact to remember when restoring anybody's 70 Cuda is that these are 40 year old cars. Parts got changed out all the time reguardless of how many owners it had or how many pictures were taken.
In the case of where an item is different then the norm (by that I mean the normal ones found and generally accepted by the judging public) without some sort of ROCK BOTTOM evidence (ie: pictures taken when the car was BRAND NEW)then it's in the best interest of the person(s) restoring the car to follow the norm.
For example...Lets say the previous owner had a picture of this car taking in 1971 and it clearly had that style of master cylinder on it, and to the best of his 40 year old memory, he can't remember it ever being changed.....THAT DOES NOT MAKE IT CORRECT.
I cannot argue that it's not correct as much as he can not argue that is is.
THEREFORE: The best option is to use the master cylinder that all the parts books say is correct and all the people viewing or judging the car say is correct and paint it the way that is most accepted as being correct.
As far as my understanding goes the crimpped style booster (midland ross I believe) all arrived assembled at the factory with the master cylinder and check valve, the entire unit was painted black together as an assembly.
When I state that things are "wrong" ...I'm referring to things being against the "norm" I'm sure there're variables
I'm only trying to help Tim and his gang restore the best Cuda they can.
And we do appreciate the help!
I still get a chuckle about those brakes now and then and probably will every time we do another front end!
Posted By: gomangoRTSE
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/01/10 10:37 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
it was not cheap but supposedly he is one of the best out there and since my motor was done already I wanted the trans to be as nice. the whole trans job cost around $2400 and yes I think it was a little expensive.
WOW... I personaly think you could have had 3 of maybe even 4 at that price...... What did he replace every single piece in it.....
_________________________________________________
Frank or no Frank thats absolutely ridiculous unless you you specifically asked for an all out competition transmission. I mean Geezus I know who to avoid. (mental note made here)
Who are you refering to in this post.. his or mine
_____________________________________________
No, I was referring to the outrageous price for rebuilding the transmission. Ridiculous, and even if the case and/or linkages were correctly coated (plated) I dont see the value. Im not afraid to say it. I guess you pay $1600 or more for reputation nowadays. Buyer beware when the repairman and customer are not on the same page with a written estimate. Lesson learned to the rest of us.
Posted By: anlauto
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/08/10 01:54 PM
This thing done yet Tim....
Where's some pictures of the whole car?
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/08/10 04:31 PM
Quote:
This thing done yet Tim....
Where's some pictures of the whole car?
Patience Alan.
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/08/10 04:37 PM
I'll post more photos today.
Unfortunately, it's not quite done. We're still jumping through hoops getting a few misc parts.
BUT MOSTLY, you snow guys up north have conspired against us and sent in weather that's 30-40 degrees below normal. We're real "he men" when it comes to working in the heat but we're like a bunch of little girls with this cold weather! We have heat pumps down here. They are air conditioners that work in reverse during the winter and they can't keep up when it's this cold. The other day, we walked into the shop and it was 16 degrees f inside. We ran back to Mike's house like the place was on fire.
Please pray that we survive.
More soon...
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/08/10 04:41 PM
Posted By: anlauto
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/08/10 09:55 PM
Quote:
Patience Alan.
What's the problem?
Dec. 1st 2009 : 
Posted By: anlauto
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/08/10 09:56 PM
Jan 1st 2010: 
Only one guy....Me
Posted By: Mastershake340
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/08/10 10:28 PM
That master cylinder couldn't have been on the car when it was new......it's an aftermarket piece! And as previously noted by several here, it is a drum brake master cylinder, so it is not only incorrect but also could be dangerous on a disc brake car if you let the fluid get low.
Check the casting number on the bottom, I'm thinking it is 5 numbers starting with 29xxx. Which would make it Raybestos, my old work.
And a correct Bendix disc brake MC will be painted black.
Posted By: AZ_A12_BEE
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/08/10 10:30 PM
Quote:
Jan 1st 2010:
Only one guy....Me
I suspect you have some clones somewhere.
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/08/10 11:21 PM
You missed my posting on the bottom of page 5. Brrr.
Plus we're storing it for the owner until it warms up now so we took a break to work on another car.
A few odds and ends (parts) still aren't here yet. We're actually doing a little more of an "OEM Like" resto than originally planned so the parts hunting has gotten a little more involved.
That Chally looks great! What was the tab on that job?
Posted By: MrNormsTA
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/08/10 11:25 PM
Quote:
You missed my posting on the bottom of page 5. Brrr.
Plus we're storing it for the owner until it warms up now so we took a break to work on another car.
A few odds and ends (parts) still aren't here yet.
That Chally looks great!
Pssst, it's a cuda.
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/08/10 11:27 PM
Quote:
Quote:
You missed my posting on the bottom of page 5. Brrr.
Plus we're storing it for the owner until it warms up now so we took a break to work on another car.
A few odds and ends (parts) still aren't here yet.
That Chally looks great!
Pssst, it's a cuda.
It's so F'n cold here my eyes are frozen!!! LOL
Posted By: MrNormsTA
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/08/10 11:30 PM
Come on Tim, how cold can Georgia get?
Pee freezes before it hits the ground here, and my eyes are fine.
Just busting.
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/08/10 11:32 PM
It's almost as cold here as it is there. ALMOST.
But it's usually about 50 degrees here about now.
Posted By: AZ-Nick
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/09/10 04:03 AM
Quote:
Come on Tim, how cold can Georgia get?
Pee freezes before it hits the ground here, and my eyes are fine. Just busting.
Posted By: rtmike
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/09/10 04:09 AM
My nose hairs start to freeze at -5F, so that to me is the start of cold. We are still playing basketball outside at 16 degrees.
Posted By: hotairballoonpilot
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/09/10 03:23 PM
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/10/10 05:39 PM
This could be my last entry as I'm starting to lose control of my fingers.
We can't flush the toilet because the water pipes are frozen. That's not good when coffee is the only thing keeping us alive!
The town is paralyzed due to the 1/2 inch of snow we recieved last Thursday. There are no beer sales on Sunday so we would be in for a slow, painful death even if we could get to the store.
Darn those uninsulated roll up doors!!!
If we can just hang on one more day, it's supposed to get back above freezing!
Wish us luck.
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/10/10 05:49 PM
Here are a few more details:
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/10/10 05:50 PM
Close up
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/10/10 05:51 PM
Hub
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/10/10 05:52 PM
Brake lines done
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/10/10 05:53 PM
Hey, should this tranny mount be yellow????
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/10/10 05:59 PM
We still have to double check everything and add the inspection marks. But after the exhaust is on, the bottom will be pretty much done.
We actually don't have very many hours in what we've done and the owner is having us keep the car until the weather breaks. So, we're not going to bust our knuckles until it gets above freezing again. (meow!)
We bought that double sided aluminum heat (cold) wrap to put over our roll up doors. Once we get that up there, maybe the heat pump will have a chance.
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/10/10 06:06 PM
Quote:
Hub
Drum?
I don't think paint show be around the studs. When built they worried the paint could allow the wheels to become loose? That's what I was told??
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/10/10 06:44 PM
Yes drum. I still have brain freeze.
The instructions that came with the paint said to paint around the studs but not the studs. When the wheels are put on, they will rub off the area around the studs.
We'll see.
Posted By: Snoopy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/10/10 07:35 PM
Red drum instructions.
Posted By: anlauto
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/10/10 07:41 PM
How long did it take you to get the torsion bars in place?
...'cause now you have to take them out and install the rubber boots then put the torsion bars back in.
I'm glad you don't charge the owner for doing things twice, you would need a $50k max
Again, just helping out
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/10/10 07:46 PM
Quote:
How long did it take you to get the torsion bars in place?
Good eye...I knew something looked different in that picture, but I was too worried about the rear drums.
Posted By: hotairballoonpilot
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/10/10 08:25 PM
Posted By: DAYCLONA
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/10/10 09:04 PM
Quote:
Red drum instructions.
........also if disc equipped (front) just the caliper got a "smear" of red across the side of the caliper that would show thru the wheel vents IIRC?,.....also I thought this was only for car with roadwheels only (magnums) and not ralleys? ......I didn't think this was done for 70 and up cars?
Posted By: Snoopy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/10/10 09:51 PM
"With Styled Wheels Only"
Was the Magnum the only styled wheel available in 69?
Posted By: 6bblgt
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/10/10 10:17 PM
There were also "recall wheels" in '69.
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/10/10 10:33 PM
Fortunately, the torsion bars aren't loaded or cliped. They still slide in and out easily. That one surprised me. I should have caught it myself.
As for the drums, we're going only by what we have to go by. Clearly the one in the factory photo we have had paint behind the wheel when it was put on. We'll probably take off the paint inside of the studs though.
This is the first car we've done to this level of detail and we certainly do appreciate the help.
We are swapping out the master, to follow up on that subject.
Does anyone have a definitive answer on the tranny mount above?
BTW Alan, you must have missed our question above. I'd really like to know how much you as an expert charge for the assembly work you did in a month on that very nice Cuda. We've shown and told all. It's your turn.
Posted By: anlauto
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/10/10 11:37 PM
Quote:
BTW Alan, you must have missed our question above. I'd really like to know how much you as an expert charge for the assembly work you did in a month on that very nice Cuda. We've shown and told all. It's your turn.
I just read over the owner's invoices for December 2009 and January 2010....My total hours for the assembly for those two months were 54.5.
54.5hrs X $35/hr = $1907.50 CDN
I had a friend install the windshield, backglass and help with the headliner and vinyl top.(ok so I lied when I said I was only one guy).That took him one day.
Keep inmind I work a full time 40hr/week job in a factory which I did not get any holidays until Dec 23rd. I go back tomorrow
Posted By: jrwoodjoe
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/11/10 12:42 AM
Alan, are you saying you can assemble a complete car for around 2K?
Posted By: anlauto
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/11/10 01:00 AM
Quote:
Alan, are you saying you can assemble a complete car for around 2K?
Assembling a complete car usually takes 50 -100 hours so the answer is yes. $1750 -$3500 depending on how many parts are ready to bolt on. Installing the windshield/back glass is additional.
So send me a complete car already painted and all the parts, a voila....Your car will be done before your very own eyes...it's magic....
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/11/10 01:12 AM
Posted By: anlauto
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/11/10 01:25 AM
Quote:
With the current exchange rate, we'll be right about where you are cost wise on the reassembly. And, we've learned enough this time to actually make money next time.
BUT , you are a serious he-man doing that on top of a full time job in the freezing cold!
My garage has a 30,000 btu gas radiant heater mounted on the ceiling, you can fry eggs in there all year round. T shirt weather...
Posted By: MLR426
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/11/10 01:13 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Alan, are you saying you can assemble a complete car for around 2K?
Assembling a complete car usually takes 50 -100 hours so the answer is yes. $1750 -$3500 depending on how many parts are ready to bolt on. Installing the windshield/back glass is additional.
So send me a complete car already painted and all the parts, a voila....Your car will be done before your very own eyes...it's magic....
I applaud you, it appears you charge for actual hours working and getting things done on the job your doing and not for hours thinking about what your going to do next. People don't mind being charged for actual work but the problem is being charged for work and seeing no progress.
logan426
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/11/10 03:18 PM
I just want to thank everyone that have been helping with the micro details of this resto. It has helped a lot. Better to catch it now then later when everything is back together.
Tim, sorry for the headaches. You guys have given me 110% on this project.
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/30/10 04:01 PM
Sorry there has not been any postings for a while. We got held up on some parts hunting and are slowly getting back on track. The car is about 80% assembled. Remember that when the final pics are posted from Tim, it will not be 100% done yet because I have a number of details to take care of when it comes home. We are not rushing on it anymore because of the parts holdup and weather. As for Tims guarantee on a time frame of getting this done he was on schedule until we got held up with waiting for some things to arrive which was on my end and not his fault. Thanks for understanding.
Posted By: anlauto
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 02/10/10 10:41 PM
Where's the update
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 02/10/10 11:14 PM
This one is a little different.
The owner has had us go corner to corner looking for anything that might not pass muster in the OEM circuit.
We've found a few items that need some attention and we're waiting for some parts that will be swapped out. Additionally, we are stripping and redoing the brake drums per spec. And, there are a couple of brackets that are in the process of being redone in correct yellow zinc plating.
As I indicated in another posting, for those vendors who ignore the owner's request to ship to the shop and not the bill to address, I want a middle finger button on my keyboard.
Anyway, this isn't the ECS Challenger but it's going to be as close as we can make it within our capabilities.
No, we are not charging more to redo the few details I've mentioned above. We already agreed to store the car until spring at no additional charge and this isn't hurting us any.
Alan, thanks for the bump.
Posted By: RJS
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 02/11/10 12:00 AM
I really love following this build-up. Wish i knew about you guys 5 years ago!!
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 02/11/10 02:26 AM
Thanks!
We'll be here for your next restoration.
Posted By: MRVCODE
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 02/11/10 03:37 AM
Quote:
Quote:
This tear down of my car (less engine/trans), strip, panel fitment/reworking, minor lower patch, repaint, and reassembly, cost me about $10K and it is a work of art. NO shortcuts. Beautiful black paint job with AAR black out treatment.
I am sure if the car needed quarters and a trunk, it would have added a couple grand. But $25k for a top shelf rotisserie job on a rusty car seems pretty doable without parts.
Am I missing something? Was the claim made that the entire resto would cost $25K including parts??? If so, I will join in with skepticism.
We'll take yours as a vote of support.
We are a shop that advertises a $25k Max labor cost on a complete rotisserie restoration.
There are three schools of thought on Moparts.
1) The individuals, who do their own work say it is too expensive.
2) The shop owners, who do rotisserie restos for a living say that a good job can't be done that inexpensively.
3) Our customers, who love our work and are glad we are doing it.
Well said!! I enjoy reading this post, it's a pleasure to see a company like yours doing quality work without bleeding their customers dry...you did hit it right on the head regarding the school of thoughts on Moparts( 1 & 2). #3 is what really counts!
Posted By: 70plymA34
this is what we started with *DELETED* - 02/19/10 04:51 PM
Post deleted by 70plymA34
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: this is what we started with - 02/20/10 04:09 PM
This (fellow members) example is more along the lines of how the factory painted the red on the drums, it was done on the "fast & loose" schedule with a brush, usually brush marks were evident and the edges were sloppy accordingly.
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: this is what we started with - 02/20/10 08:20 PM
Thanks Scott. That's one of the things we are redoing. I'll have another update soon.
Posted By: 67plymouthman
Re: this is what we started with - 02/20/10 10:42 PM
Great Job Guys!!! How's the 69 Coronet coming?
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: this is what we started with - 02/21/10 06:35 PM
It's coming along too. I haven't been doing my job of posting photos very well.
Next weekend I plan to get both threads caught up.
Thanks for asking.
Posted By: sawdust
Re: this is what we started with - 02/21/10 09:40 PM
Tim,
Car looks to be coming along good, here is another picture of the drums, also link to post on projects forum....
Probably should have posted it here in the restoration forum.
hemicuda
Posted By: 70440+6bbl
Re: this is what we started with - 02/23/10 05:10 PM
Read paint on the '71 U-code 4-spd GTX I just sold... Very sloppy
Posted By: 70plymA34
Hang in their everyone! - 03/28/10 06:10 PM
Ladies and Gentlemen. I am sorry there have been no posts on my car recently but we are at a standstill right now. A few more odds and ends and American Muscle Revolution will call this project DONE! Then the car heads home and final assembly begins on my end. I would assume that Tim will update this forum once he and the crew are done. Stay tuned.......
Posted By: anlauto
Re: Hang in their everyone! - 03/28/10 07:18 PM
You mean that car's not finished yet? I thought I must have just missed the ending....
One thing for sure...no matter who's fault it was they certainly didn't hit the posted time frame...
Posted By: anlauto
Re: Hang in their everyone! - 04/11/10 02:54 PM
Any Updates? It's been almost 2 months since the last updates...should be almost finished now...shouldn't it?
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: Hang in their everyone! - 04/11/10 03:00 PM
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: Hang in their everyone! - 04/11/10 04:46 PM
There have been a few bumps in the road on this one and it's my fault that I haven't posted more photos.
Some of you might recall that my father broke his hip a while back. He's doing fine now but we had to put him in a Memory Care facility where my mom could still be in Independant/Assisted Living. After a great deal of research, I highly recommend the Presbyterian Village. They have very high quality care with all the comforts of home. My father thinks he is on vacation at a resort and he really loves it.
Anyway, the car owner decided to have us go back and do a little more work getting the car more to OEM standards.
We've located and installed many date correct, properly numbered parts. Thanks to everyone who pointed out the issues on the master cylinder, etc.
Frankly, I was surprised at how much effort was required to find some of the correct parts for this car. It's an early 1970 so I guess that cut down on how many they made that would work with the dates, etc.
We found everything the owner wanted us to find and the effort was included at no charge. Of course, he paid for the parts directly and had them shipped to us. No thanks to the few vendors who would only ship to the bill-to address.
At this point, everything is done except for some of the detail work.
I'll get caught up on the photos as soon as time allows. I still have to get my parents settled in but rest assured that Mike and Hubert are still working at a frantic pace on this and other cars.
We'll be documenting the resto of a '70 Roadrunner Convertible next!
Posted By: 340dart4spd
Re: Hang in their everyone! - 04/11/10 07:52 PM
Quote:
There have been a few bumps in the road on this one and it's my fault that I haven't posted more photos.
Some of you might recall that my father broke his hip a while back. He's doing fine now but we had to put him in a Memory Care facility where my mom could still be in Independant/Assisted Living. After a great deal of research, I highly recommend the Presbyterian Village. They have very high quality care with all the comforts of home. My father thinks he is on vacation at a resort and he really loves it.
Anyway, the car owner decided to have us go back and do a little more work getting the car more to OEM standards.
We've located and installed many date correct, properly numbered parts. Thanks to everyone who pointed out the issues on the master cylinder, etc.
Frankly, I was surprised at how much effort was required to find some of the correct parts for this car. It's an early 1970 so I guess that cut down on how many they made that would work with the dates, etc.
We found everything the owner wanted us to find and the effort was included at no charge. Of course, he paid for the parts directly and had them shipped to us. No thanks to the few vendors who would only ship to the bill-to address.
At this point, everything is done except for some of the detail work.
I'll get caught up on the photos as soon as time allows. I still have to get my parents settled in but rest assured that Mike and Hubert are still working at a frantic pace on this and other cars.
We'll be documenting the resto of a '70 Roadrunner Convertible next!
Enough Idle Chatter ...lets see the car....JK
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: Hang in their everyone! - 04/11/10 11:21 PM
Tim is 100% right. He advised me of certain things that I did not pick up on that his years of experience did. I figured we have gone this far with detail why not go the extra mile to finish this thing right. For example, the carb did not have the correct Avs choke that connects to the top of the intake manifold. It took a while to find an NOS one but we did. Stuff like that held us up. Also many people helped as well with their eye for detail (yes you Alan from Canada) Believe me, we are working on this thing at both ends so when it gets back to me the assembly goes smoothly. I know we are out of the time frame that was originally discussed. Stay with us, the light is at the end of the tunnel.
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 05/09/10 07:07 PM
It's going to take me a while to get this thread fully updated. To make a long story short, we noticed a few items here and there and some of you guys pointed out a few more. Those items, combined with the owner's recollection that some of the engines internal components might not be factory stock, gave him the idea that we should go ahead and redo as much as we could to make everything right.
So, we dug back in deep. We pulled the engine, swapped the cam, stripped the paint and resquirted the engine with the correct color.
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 05/09/10 07:08 PM
Have I really gotten bald and fat from doing this line of work? Nah, this car is just lower to the ground than the last one.
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 05/09/10 07:13 PM
Now we're talking date coded exhaust system!!!
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 05/09/10 07:15 PM
Going back together pretty well...
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 05/09/10 07:17 PM
Correct brake master this time? I'd say so...
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 05/09/10 07:19 PM
Everything on the bottom looking good too...
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 05/09/10 07:45 PM
Quote:
Have I really gotten bald and fat from doing this line of work? Nah, this car is just lower to the ground than the last one.
Wow, you really did "dig in deep". I bet your getting to know cudas pretty well now.
I noticed no blackout on the radiator support, did cudas get that treatment?
Car is looking great! Great job.
Posted By: anlauto
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 05/09/10 08:47 PM
PCV valve, grommets, hose fittings, etc...should have all been painted orange with the engine.
The four bolts that hold the transmission cross member to the frame are in backwards
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 05/09/10 08:58 PM
Thanks for the tips!
I'll be fixing those items and more in the photos that come next. I also have to paint the transmission mount yellow.
Posted By: JulesdaWiperman
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 05/09/10 11:07 PM
Shouldn't the master cylinder be round at the front and flat at the back?
Jules
Posted By: moparo
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 05/09/10 11:21 PM
Alan
You forgot the fuel pump should have been painted.
And your favorite the sway bar is upside down.
Posted By: RJS
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 05/09/10 11:50 PM
You'll need to get a properly plated throttle cable hold-down and nut also not sure but didn't think the choke assembly was painted. You also need to get body color on the battery tray... Ron
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 05/10/10 12:18 PM
Quote:
You'll need to get a properly plated throttle cable hold-down and nut also not sure but didn't think the choke assembly was painted. You also need to get body color on the battery tray... Ron
Ron,
that choke assembly was the old one. we do have a mint Carter NOS one that will go back on the intake that will remain unpainted. Alan, as usual thanks for your eye for detail. Everyone else thanks for your help as well. Tim, dont sweat the small stuff. This has been learning experience for all of us. Keep up the good work. We are almost there. This delay has given me the perfect amount of time to get alot done on my end.
Posted By: anlauto
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 05/10/10 12:30 PM
Sway bar is correct in my books
...I don't like the plating on the sway bar links, but we're not going OE gold here....Are we?
Posted By: 70440+6bbl
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 05/10/10 01:23 PM
Quote:
Correct brake master this time? I'd say so...
Nope, still wrong...
Posted By: 70440+6bbl
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 05/10/10 01:31 PM
Here is the real deal...
Posted By: gygeneral
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 05/10/10 01:41 PM
Quote:
Sway bar is correct in my books
I agree, I always try to remember this.
It should be frowning and not smiling when it comes to the front sway bar.
Posted By: 2fast4yourBrain
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 05/10/10 02:51 PM
don't forget to paint some of the neg. battery cable while it's bolted on!
Lookin' good!
Odd Master Cylinder for sure!
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 05/10/10 03:23 PM
Thanks again guys. We'll be spraying a little more paint here and there later today and yes, I did leave the old choke actuator on for the paint job. I'll install the correct NOS part when the overspray clears. I was anxious to break in the new cam and make sure everything else was working well.
That is an odd master but the owner has the really correct one coming to us next.
No, we're not going for OE gold but we're learning a lot and we're doing our best to do as much as we can correctly so, I'm going to look into all of the tips you guys give us.
Tim
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 05/10/10 07:35 PM
Quote:
don't forget to paint some of the neg. battery cable while it's bolted on!
Lookin' good!
Odd Master Cylinder for sure!
the master that you see was an aftermarket one we were going to use temporarily until i could find a 2229171 to replace it. the correct one will be on the car soon. thanks for all your tips
Posted By: CudaJames
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 05/11/10 01:01 PM
Hey very nice car . When you get it back can you post when you'l be bringing it out or shoot me an email . I'm in queens & would like to see it . I'm sure the pictures don't do it justice .
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 05/12/10 02:30 PM
Here's a little bit of the correct color grille...
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 05/12/10 02:32 PM
Headlight buckets...
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 05/12/10 03:35 PM
Rocker Gills... Here's a detail that many people miss.
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 05/12/10 04:14 PM
TWINS!!!
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 05/12/10 07:00 PM
Paint slick enough for you?
This is only after the first cutting and buffing.
There are two more passes including a finishing glaze and final hand glaze.
Stay tuned for the final product, coming your way soon!
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 05/12/10 07:01 PM
One more...
Posted By: 70 buzz
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 05/12/10 07:31 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Sway bar is correct in my books
I agree, I always try to remember this.
It should be frowning and not smiling when it comes to the front sway bar.
how can you tell from a smile to a frown.?
Posted By: anlauto
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 05/13/10 03:50 AM
Can we see a picture of the whole car?
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 05/13/10 03:04 PM
Quote:
Can we see a picture of the whole car?
Patience is a virtue my good friend...
You don't read the last chapter of a good book before you get to the end do you???
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 05/13/10 03:26 PM
Tim,
Nice job on the rocker moldings. We are getting there, the light is at the end of the tunnel.....
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 05/14/10 02:06 PM
Quote:
Tim,
Nice job on the rocker moldings. We are getting there, the light is at the end of the tunnel.....
I take that back, i mean OUTSTANDING job on the rocker moldings.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 05/14/10 06:57 PM
Did you paint the rocker mouldings with textured argent or silver paint?
Posted By: HEMICUDA
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 05/14/10 08:30 PM
Quote:
Did you paint the rocker mouldings with textured argent or silver paint?
Come on Scott, you're setting him up.
Posted By: moparply
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 05/14/10 09:04 PM
Looks like silver paint.
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 05/14/10 10:39 PM
Quote:
Did you paint the rocker mouldings with textured argent or silver paint?
I purchased the rocker molding paint through frank badalson. i hope that answers your question. in fact all of the different silver paints were gotten through badalson as well. real nice stuff to use.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 05/14/10 11:28 PM
It doesn't really answer my question, Frank sells high quality paint for allot of applications (good stuff too!).
I asked because it looks like textured argent paint in the pics.
The original rocker mouldings were manufactured with the texture already formed into the surface so they did not recieve the textured argent paint, they recieved a non textured silver paint and the backsides of the gills were masked off and painted black (as yours are).
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 05/15/10 03:39 PM
Quote:
It doesn't really answer my question, Frank sells high quality paint for allot of applications (good stuff too!).
I asked because it looks like textured argent paint in the pics.
The original rocker mouldings were manufactured with the texture already formed into the surface so they did not recieve the textured argent paint, they recieved a non textured silver paint and the backsides of the gills were masked off and painted black (as yours are).
There was no texture in the paint so the texture you see is whatever the factory put in the rockers. These rockers were as good as new when we started with them and I was nervous every time we touched one.
Just in case anyone was wondering, there are 75 gills on each one and it takes lots of masking and an exacto knife to mask off each one invividually.
Mike and Hubert are both still cursing the designer of that part!!!
Scott, this is an example of what I wrote to you in another thread. Frank & Roger as well as Dave Walden and David Wise have been really helpful to us in every way. That's before the fact that we post everything on here and get comments from all of the helpful people on Moparts, especially Alan.
Truly, we don't know everything about doing an OEM job but we're learning on every single part we restore AND we have so many people willing to help us, that I really think we do a pretty good job.
We're the "average guy's" restoration shop.
We're not taking any business from any of the big guys and they aren't worried about us. We're just offering a service at a price that more people can afford.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 05/15/10 03:44 PM
Sounds like you got it right then. I agree, detailing those is no walk in the park, I'm sure a large one piece mask was used by the manufacturer (as opposed to individually masking them).
Posted By: Snoopy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 05/15/10 05:12 PM
There was some talk about the gills being painted black and the silver was applied at an angle to shield the desired black effect.
Posted By: anlauto
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 05/15/10 06:07 PM
Quote:
There was some talk about the gills being painted black and the silver was applied at an angle to shield the desired black effect.
That way works well...
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 05/15/10 09:07 PM
There's always more than one way to skin a cat. Leave it to us to do it the hard way!
We were pretty sure these were original and they had a pretty crisp line between the black and the silver. The only way could could duplicate the clean break that was on there originally was by doing it the way we did.
Let it never be said that we take short-cuts!
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 05/17/10 03:30 PM
Quote:
There's always more than one way to skin a cat. Leave it to us to do it the hard way!
We were pretty sure these were original and they had a pretty crisp line between the black and the silver. The only way could could duplicate the clean break that was on there originally was by doing it the way we did.
Let it never be said that we take short-cuts!
Yes, they are the original moldings.
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 06/12/10 02:25 AM
Ladies and Gentlemen,
I know it has been a long while since any updates on my Cuda but the odds and ends are being finished now. we had a slight break in work but Tim and the crew are BACK and we are winding this project down once and for all!!!! I am sure he will post when he gets a chance. Thank you all for following this thread.
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 06/12/10 02:51 AM
Posted By: shakerjoe
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 06/12/10 12:23 PM
looking forward to more info and seeing your 'cuda hit the scene here on LI Mike - been a good read so far - Joe
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 07/06/10 10:16 PM
Ladies and Gentlemen,
I know this has kind of drifted to more of a dead thread for the past month or so. I just want to say "stay with us". The light at the end of the tunnel is rapidly approaching and some photos will be uploaded soon.
Posted By: shakerjoe
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 07/07/10 03:21 AM
having now met 70plymA34 and speaking at length on more than 1 occasion, I'm sure this is going to be well worth the wait - we all know how these things get sidetracked and held up, but sounds like it is going to as promised by the AMCR crew, even with some of the slips and corrections and tips provided by the moparts crew - I'm looking forward to seeing this end result, and it's not even my car ! And friending another moparts member is pretty cool too, every tip helps the next guy - Joe
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 07/09/10 11:18 PM
i dont mean to sidetrack this resto, but i would like to show you guys some of the stellar work that has been done by myself and others to add to the great work AMCR is doing.
This is the original air cleaner after light plastic media, sensors had to be replaced on snorkels, lucked out and found NOS ones, original hoses cleaned up and the assembly powdercoated in black wrinkle finish. The inside was finished in a low luster black which I got from Instrument Specialties. Stickers from ECS and NOS pie pan. Damn, how could i forget, to finish this off right, Mitchell Mopar had a NOS seal for the lid
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 07/09/10 11:22 PM
bottom
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 07/09/10 11:24 PM
Looks really nice, great work by AMCR.
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 07/09/10 11:26 PM
Two words to describe the resto of the original alternator. JIM RIDGE!!!!. Great guy!!!! oops thats 4 words.
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 07/09/10 11:28 PM
back.
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 07/09/10 11:35 PM
Take a guess who brought the original wiper motor back to life. I ll give you a hint his initials are JD!!!
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 07/09/10 11:36 PM
couldnt stop at the wiper motor now. he also did the arms as well!!
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 07/09/10 11:38 PM
now we could not just stop there, how bout these too!! Thanks Jules for everything. Not only did he do some of the components, he also gave me priceless advice as well for a lot of the items I did myself. Merci Jules Daddio!!!!!
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 07/09/10 11:40 PM
the final compliment to the wiper assembly, a mint set of NOS ANCO 16" Red Dot wipers.
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 07/09/10 11:43 PM
thats all folks for now. this is just an appetizer of the work that has been done on the cuda. More to come!!
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 07/10/10 02:02 AM
Alright, one more detail until Tim posts some photos from his shop of the car. These are the restored road lamps which I did myself. They were stripped of their crusty silver paint, primed and reshot with PPG DAR Rallye Wheel paint. I used 2 drops of flattening agent to knock the gloss down and these were as close as I could match the original color. Also the original brackets were treated to satin/semi gloss black. All hardware replated and original bezels rechromed. I got the silver paint from Frank Badalson.
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 07/10/10 02:03 AM
Roadlamp housings not complete until I got the bulbs. Got em right off Moparts!
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 07/10/10 02:06 AM
Backside of Road Lamp Housing with wiring installed.
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 07/10/10 02:07 AM
Front of RL's with bulb and bezel installed.
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 07/10/10 02:08 AM
Original road lamp when I took it off car. Just wanted to show that I tried to match the color as best i could. The flattening agent helped somewhat with sheen.
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 07/10/10 02:10 AM
ok, thats really it for now, LOL..
Posted By: JulesdaWiperman
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 07/10/10 11:13 AM
Very nice work.
You're welcome and thank you for the compliments.
Jules
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 07/12/10 11:50 PM
thanks Jules again. Here is another item we discussed that your advice helped make it come out perfect. This was another PPG DAR paint sold thru Frank Badalson. It is called "Jack Gray". It is actually a little darker than the pics show but needless to say, excellent paint. Frank your paints are excellent and easy to use! ECS supplied the repro sticker.
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 07/12/10 11:51 PM
here is a better pic to show the color.
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 07/12/10 11:54 PM
here is a pic of it before restoration to show how close franks color matches the original.
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 07/15/10 11:49 PM
Here is a pic of the original driver side airbox. Another in house project. The entire assembly was taken apart. Door was replated, housing cleaned, new gasket by DMT, hardware replated and new correct rivets installed.
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 07/15/10 11:50 PM
restored assembly
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 07/15/10 11:55 PM
Ok its heater box time. Since the box overall was in good conditon and the usual damage was not present. Keep in mind the original stampings are still intact. Box was completely disassembled, parts cleaned and light media used. replating, new correct rivets, DMT gasket set. JULES did the heater motor.
Heater Box before
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 07/15/10 11:56 PM
after minor resto
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 07/15/10 11:57 PM
backside
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 07/15/10 11:59 PM
the restored motor done by Jules D!
Posted By: scatcity
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 07/17/10 01:59 AM
Mike, All the components you jazzed up yourself looks sweet. All of us Long Island, New York MoPar freaks are looking forward for your debut. Tommy
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 07/17/10 02:10 AM
thanks Tommy. I appreciate it. One more thing and I promise, thats it until Tim posts some pics of the Jamaica Blue Bandit!! Another one day DIY project was the rallye dash bar that was done inhouse, with the exception of media cleaning. These are the before pics.
Bottom
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 07/17/10 02:11 AM
Top (unrestored)
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 07/17/10 02:15 AM
here comes the fun part. entire assembly was stripped down. Extreme caution and a grinding bit for a dremel helped get those rivets out without damaging the lenses. The original part# label was carefully removed. Front side was primed, inner lens housing were shot with some omni brand white. Exposed metal was treated to a special non gloss clear.
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 07/17/10 02:16 AM
front
Posted By: MrNormsTA
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 07/17/10 02:17 AM
You guys ever going to show us a car or just every nut and bolt and every component that was restored.
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 07/17/10 02:19 AM
assembly carefully taped and TOTALLY AUTO Black Suede applied to one side of the housing. The Totally Auto paint is very nice and easy to use. They actually have the PPG paint canned in a spray. Also new correct rivets to install the delicate lenses back on the housings.
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 07/17/10 02:22 AM
Here is the other side with original wiring and label installed. Does anyone know if ECS makes the wiring label? I did not remove the original one.
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 07/17/10 02:26 AM
Alright, thats really it. Sorry for sidetracking. I hope everyone has enjoyed this resto so far. More pics to come.
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 07/17/10 02:31 AM
Quote:
You guys ever going to show us a car or just every nut and bolt and every component that was restored.
Mr. Norm, if you read my previous post, i mentioned that the component pics were a diversion until Tim got a chance to post some pics of the car. The thread was sitting idle for to long, that is why I started to post other pics. Sorry. 
Posted By: 70RT27N
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 07/17/10 03:32 AM
Quote:
Door was replated, housing cleaned, new gasket by DMT, hardware replated and new correct rivets installed.
Heater box looks great!! What do you use for the rivets?
Cheers.
Posted By: hotairballoonpilot
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 07/17/10 04:18 AM
Quote:
Quote:
You guys ever going to show us a car or just every nut and bolt and every component that was restored.
Mr. Norm, if you read my previous post, i mentioned that the component pics were a diversion until Tim got a chance to post some pics of the car. The thread was sitting idle for to long, that is why I started to post other pics. Sorry.
I see no problem with it just wondering when he will post pics of the car, Seems like he was very up front saying they didn't mess around and got stuff done. I know what it like to be side tracked on jobs but I try not to say it that way I don't eat my words. I am sure it looks great but I was affraid when he started posting that he'd eat his words that it would be done very fast. Seems like you don't see anything from him so I bet others are wondering what is going on. Alan I am sure would love to know.
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 07/17/10 04:19 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Door was replated, housing cleaned, new gasket by DMT, hardware replated and new correct rivets installed.
Heater box looks great!! What do you use for the rivets?
Cheers.
Thanks, to answer your question about the rivets. When they were removed I brought them to Rapid Rivet and they matched them up. I had to get a hand rivet squeezer tool to install them. They are hollow rivets. When I get a chance I will get you a pic of the tool.
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 07/17/10 04:35 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
You guys ever going to show us a car or just every nut and bolt and every component that was restored.
Mr. Norm, if you read my previous post, i mentioned that the component pics were a diversion until Tim got a chance to post some pics of the car. The thread was sitting idle for to long, that is why I started to post other pics. Sorry.
I see no problem with it just wondering when he will post pics of the car, Seems like he was very up front saying they didn't mess around and got stuff done. I know what it like to be side tracked on jobs but I try not to say it that way I don't eat my words. I am sure it looks great but I was affraid when he started posting that he'd eat his words that it would be done very fast. Seems like you don't see anything from him so I bet others are wondering what is going on. Alan I am sure would love to know.
I am sure Alan would love to know whats going on. The truth is that the big delay was on my end and Tim is not to be blamed. The car was painted months ago. We were waiting on parts and that was a big holdup during assembly. The car was actually done, then I wanted them to reshoot the bottom of the car in the more correct LA black primer. This caused a lot of extra work and I am sorry to Tim and the crew for the change but they came through and did it right. Everything came off the bottom including the engine because they did not want to go back and touch things up if overspray occured. As of today, suspension and motor are back in the car. They are taking care of some last minute details so be on the lookout for some updates.
Posted By: Barnabas_Kriss
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 07/17/10 06:15 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Door was replated, housing cleaned, new gasket by DMT, hardware replated and new correct rivets installed.
Heater box looks great!! What do you use for the rivets?
Cheers.
Moparts member 1970mopar also sells the correct rivets. I bought several sets from him before.
Posted By: scatcity
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 07/17/10 11:26 AM
Mike, without having to re-read 9 pages of this post, I'm just curious as to what gear ratio you're running out back on your Super Track Pak 'Cuda ?
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 07/17/10 12:23 PM
Quote:
Mike, without having to re-read 9 pages of this post, I'm just curious as to what gear ratio you're running out back on your Super Track Pak 'Cuda ?
Tom,
It was fun driving the car with 4.10 but when going 30 mph at 4000rpms, LOL, I decided either put an 8 speed in or change the gears. I went with the lowering the gear with a Dana 3.54 ring and pinion. See you tonite at BK.
Mike
Posted By: 70RT27N
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 07/17/10 02:42 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Door was replated, housing cleaned, new gasket by DMT, hardware replated and new correct rivets installed.
Heater box looks great!! What do you use for the rivets?
Cheers.
Moparts member 1970mopar also sells the correct rivets. I bought several sets from him before.
Thanks Barnabas
Posted By: hotairballoonpilot
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 09/02/10 05:20 AM
news?
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 09/03/10 03:12 PM
soon. my apologies to all that are still hanging on. i cant make anymore promises as to when this car will be showcased here on moparts. keep checking in every once in a while..
Posted By: anlauto
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 09/03/10 03:31 PM
That's crazy amount of time to be waiting...
I hope for Tim's sake that he's keeping busy with other projects, otherwise he's not going to have too many takers on his $25K deal if it take years to turn out a car !
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 09/03/10 03:40 PM
Wow, I wonder what the storage bill will be?
Posted By: moparply
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 09/03/10 06:13 PM
Quote:
That's crazy amount of time to be waiting...
I hope for Tim's sake that he's keeping busy with other projects, otherwise he's not going to have too many takers on his $25K deal if it take years to turn out a car !
I just spoke with a Moparts member who wanted to get his car into Tim's shop, he said he recently talked with Tim and there is a waiting list, sound's like Tim is very busy!
I believe this project ended up taking much longer then originally planned because the level of the restoration was raised/changed during the restoration by the owner. More correct OE and NOS parts were decided to be used instead of more readily available reproduction parts, also some corrections were made during the restoration/changing the bottom primer color to the more accepted LA dark gray primer. All of these changes added a lot of time to the restoration.
Posted By: hotairballoonpilot
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 09/03/10 10:10 PM
I know what it is like to have the directions change on a resto too. Parts waiting for,change of this or that or bad parts ect ect ect. Those things happen more times than not. The thing that upsets me is that usually the ones to be blamed are the shops. The old body shop prison story. I am sure things are going good for Tim and I wish him the best of luck. I hope he comes on here and does some PR work or what he said before about things flying through in a timely manor will come back to haunt him in the end.
Good Luck
Oh and how are the updates on the R/T and the runner convertible going too?
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 09/04/10 12:19 AM
moparaply is correct. this car probably would have been back home a month or so. I did make a last minute change which I do regret now back in June. My Cuda was heavily undercoated at the dealership when new. We went ahead and originally used a dark gray primer which Roger Gibson gave us the formula for. I then discovered a pic of the primer clearly being black right above the gas tank and a few other areas. I figured to keep it accurate, we would go with the black primer which made the LA cars unique. Right now it has the correct black primer with B7 overspray and the undercoating in the wheel wells.
To Alan, this car has been at the shop since August of 09 so, we are at a little over a year now. Again, at this point in time I will not make any speculations as to when this ride will be unleashed on MoParts for the bandwagon to attack every last detail on it. Stay tuned.........
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 09/04/10 12:58 AM
Hello again! I'm very sorry for staying away so long.
In short, as the customer wrote above, the car was virtually finished months ago when we agreed to redo the bottom in the darker primer.
What we didn't fully realize at the time was that the car would have to come all the way back apart in order to do it properly.
As some of you already know, it takes about 10x longer when you are pulling off all new or reconditioned/refinished parts and don't want to mess them up. Well guess what? They get messed up anyway and most have to be refinished again. Ever try to remove NOS, dated exhaust after it's been freshly clamped into place? Hint - it has to come off in one piece.
Then you have to cut the primer in every crevace before recoating in the darker color. Finally you get to put everything back together.
Well, no matter that we took every precaution, we still dinged up a few pieces.
As of today, Mike found a scratch on the fender while doing the final, final hand glazing.
No big deal, just mask the entire car and take it back to the paint booth for another fun week.
One thing is for sure, we'll never do this again. The customer has been great and we really don't mind swapping parts until we get the right ones. But it has taken us longer to "redo the primer on the bottom" than it did to do the full restoration on the car.
Yes, we now have more work than we can handle but part of that is because Hubert snuck off and got married to a woman 30 yrs his junior. He used to run Mike and I around in circles with his high energy but now that energy is spent on something else.
For the most part, our Moparts customers have been Moparlicious. This one is almost done. The RR is coming along and the R/T is going home unfinished due to a change in priorities by the customer.
On the other hand, our recent experiences tell us that Chevy and Ford guys tend to run out of money mid-stream, even though we are working on a fixed bid with scheduled payments that we are almost always late requesting. Also, in our experience, 100% of Pontiac customers get thrown in jail for a year right in the middle of a resto.
We've been fortunate enough to enter into contracts with some guys from Brazil. These guys know how to make decisions, commit the total investment in advance - no, that doesn't mean they pay in advance but it does mean that they have all of the money up front and agree not to spend it on someting else like vacations and parts that cost more than the car.
Between the good customers we now have and the cars that I have to be restored and ultimately sold,
we are not taking any new customers at this time or in the forseeable future. I'm way off the subject now but we'll continue to post Mopar restos here AND I'll offer the cars I'm selling first to our established customers, then on Moparts before finally taking them to Mecum auctions, from which, they will not return.
These are the only places my cars will be sold and we're doing Hemi cars first.
Thanks to all for your understanding and support.
Posted By: hotairballoonpilot
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 09/04/10 04:00 PM
Quote:
Hello again! I'm very sorry for staying away so long.
In short, as the customer wrote above, the car was virtually finished months ago when we agreed to redo the bottom in the darker primer.
What we didn't fully realize at the time was that the car would have to come all the way back apart in order to do it properly.
As some of you already know, it takes about 10x longer when you are pulling off all new or reconditioned/refinished parts and don't want to mess them up. Well guess what? They get messed up anyway and most have to be refinished again. Ever try to remove NOS, dated exhaust after it's been freshly clamped into place? Hint - it has to come off in one piece.
Then you have to cut the primer in every crevace before recoating in the darker color. Finally you get to put everything back together.
Well, no matter that we took every precaution, we still dinged up a few pieces.
As of today, Mike found a scratch on the fender while doing the final, final hand glazing.
No big deal, just mask the entire car and take it back to the paint booth for another fun week.
One thing is for sure, we'll never do this again. The customer has been great and we really don't mind swapping parts until we get the right ones. But it has taken us longer to "redo the primer on the bottom" than it did to do the full restoration on the car.
Yes, we now have more work than we can handle but part of that is because Hubert snuck off and got married to a woman 30 yrs his junior. He used to run Mike and I around in circles with his high energy but now that energy is spent on something else.
For the most part, our Moparts customers have been Moparlicious. This one is almost done. The RR is coming along and the R/T is going home unfinished due to a change in priorities by the customer.
On the other hand, our recent experiences tell us that Chevy and Ford guys tend to run out of money mid-stream, even though we are working on a fixed bid with scheduled payments that we are almost always late requesting. Also, in our experience, 100% of Pontiac customers get thrown in jail for a year right in the middle of a resto.
We've been fortunate enough to enter into contracts with some guys from Brazil. These guys know how to make decisions, commit the total investment in advance - no, that doesn't mean they pay in advance but it does mean that they have all of the money up front and agree not to spend it on someting else like vacations and parts that cost more than the car.
Between the good customers we now have and the cars that I have to be restored and ultimately sold, we are not taking any new customers at this time or in the forseeable future.
I'm way off the subject now but we'll continue to post Mopar restos here AND I'll offer the cars I'm selling first to our established customers, then on Moparts before finally taking them to Mecum auctions, from which, they will not return.
These are the only places my cars will be sold and we're doing Hemi cars first.
Thanks to all for your understanding and support.
Interesting post. To me it sounds like you are having issues with customers stiffing you for work and then you keeping the cars for the lost payments. Is that true? If so you talk about a contract. Is that part of the contract in they don't pay you get the car? Kind of like a mechanics lien? I know what you are talking about having people taking awhile to pay. Thankfully we have never gotten stiffed on a bill and hope to never be. As far as the feelings on the furd,cheby and potyake owners sorry that has happened to you. In our area the only ones we ever have had problems with has been menanites that have left the farm or are still on the farm but still have that mind set of they set the prices on everything. Thankfully they are just been small fender benders and we set tha price just the same as other street jobs. If they want the work done by us then great if not we are better to let them go take it to someone else who will cut thier living to make a few bucks. Not us. I don't do this work for the health of it. If any of us did then there would be hardly any bodymen left in the world!
Good luck in the future on where the road leads your business.
corey
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 09/06/10 03:48 AM
No, no and heck no!
We don't hold cars for ransom and we don't want anyone else's cars.
I know I wasn't clear in my post that I own a bunch of cars that need to be restored, as many as forty but, I'm not sure I came close to implying that we were lien selling customer cars either. The fact is that I own so many, I'll never be able to get them all done in my lifetime.
We are in the enviable position of needing very few customers, actually none if we restore my cars to sell, and we have decided to take advantage of that.
We're still finishing the restos we have for the people with financial difficulties, once they can afford to resume. And, we're keeping the quick paying customers who have a need for multiple restorations. We might also take new customers if they are referred by our repeat customers.
Posted By: hotairballoonpilot
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 09/06/10 03:58 AM
ok I guess I think I follow were you are going with this. Interested what others take on this.
Posted By: Hamtramck
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 09/06/10 11:54 AM
Quote:
"We're still finishing the restos we have for the people with financial difficulties, once they can afford to resume. And, we're keeping the quick paying customers who have a need for multiple restorations. We might also take new customers if they are referred by our repeat customers."
So basically unless we're from Brazil and know the right people (your customers) we're ---- out of luck?
This is the same company who came on here saying we'll do this we'll do that just try us out and see how good we are?
How things change..... 
Posted By: A0M397X
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 09/06/10 02:18 PM
Quote:
ok I guess I think I follow were you are going with this. Interested what others take on this.
My take reading these last comments is based on experience. Salesman in every business never tell the truth. When they say things are great, more business than we can handle, they usually are in finicial trouble and fold the tent in short order. I can't tell you how many times I have heard this line just before the end. I haven't a clue where this guy is at, but don't be surprised.
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 09/06/10 03:20 PM
Quote:
Quote:
"We're still finishing the restos we have for the people with financial difficulties, once they can afford to resume. And, we're keeping the quick paying customers who have a need for multiple restorations. We might also take new customers if they are referred by our repeat customers."
Quote:
So basically unless we're from Brazil and know the right people (your customers) we're ---- out of luck?
This is the same company who came on here saying we'll do this we'll do that just try us out and see how good we are?
How things change.....
It's very tough doing restorations, noboddy said it was easy.
It's even tougher to get paid nowadays.
And then have customers change there minds about things.
Then have customers supply aftermarket parts, they want you to engineer to work on your car is very tough to say the least.
All this is very tough, if it was so easy everybody would be doing it.
Give the guy a break, he lost Hubert who must of done most of the body work. Good luck to you Tim.
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 09/06/10 07:22 PM
Quote:
Quote:
ok I guess I think I follow were you are going with this. Interested what others take on this.
My take reading these last comments is based on experience. Salesman in every business never tell the truth. When they say things are great, more business than we can handle, they usually are in finicial trouble and fold the tent in short order. I can't tell you how many times I have heard this line just before the end. I haven't a clue where this guy is at, but don't be surprised.
I really hope thats not the case and most of all it better not happen with my car still there!!!!!
Posted By: hotairballoonpilot
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 09/07/10 03:14 AM
My feelings from the time Tim you came on here saying that you would have aset price that that was the wrong thing. To many variables in my book to set a price. That is why we have been doing an excell program and logging the work we do. We don't use a time clock and I know that there are hours/minutes that don't get logged but that is just the nature of the business and that we don't add hours either just to cya. We are honest with the local guys we are doing the work for and they are happy with that. We don't send out bills just make sure that the customer comes in and we keep them informed on the amount of the bill and they pay accordingly. I know that the posts about you going down are i hope just people thinking out loud and NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS WISH THAT ON YOU! I know that for my shop we are very comfortable with the work load we have. If we had more then we would have to hire more people and with todays market not worth it to hire someone to fill a postition in hope that you will need them for along time then take a chance that in 6months to a year they are let go. I hope that is where you guys are at and that you are using your heads and looking not just 6 months but years ahead. To me that is the sign of a good solid business.
Good luck and I hope all turns out for the best for you.
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 09/09/10 11:16 PM
Quote:
Quote:
"We're still finishing the restos we have for the people with financial difficulties, once they can afford to resume. And, we're keeping the quick paying customers who have a need for multiple restorations. We might also take new customers if they are referred by our repeat customers."
So basically unless we're from Brazil and know the right people (your customers) we're ---- out of luck?
This is the same company who came on here saying we'll do this we'll do that just try us out and see how good we are?
How things change.....
All, I don't understand why everything has to turn into such a big deal on here.
The simple facts are as follows:
1) We have done very well with a lot of the credit to go to people from right here on Moparts. In fact well enough that our offer to everyone IS off of the table.
2) We are a small shop. We have had good customers and bad. As stated in the begining, we have no interest in expanding.
3) We've made a decision not to take any new customers without a reference from those who we know and trust because WE DON'T NEED TO.
4) Like any business, we are not obligated to work for anyone. Likewise, no customer is obligated to patronize us.
In the beginning, we would have worked on anyone's car and done our best to satisfy them.
Some people are not satisfied no matter what. Others blow their money on stupid things and run out in the middle of the job keeping us from finishing. We no longer wish to to work with people who fall into those categories because WE DON'T HAVE TO.
It is wrong for all of this BS to be traded back and forth on Mike's thread. He has been a fine customer and, while we've had some rework and overruns, I have no doubt that he will be 100% satisfied.
I don't know about everything posted and quoted above but the fool who wrote it is most certainly "out of luck" and, we are not interested in having him as a customer. One final time, WE DON'T HAVE TO. We would have in the beginning when we offered our services to everyone. Now, we won't. What is so hard to understand?
Bringing the thread back to where it never should have left, we scratched Mike's fender while reassembling the car the second time and we have to repaint it. It's our fault and he isn't being charged for it. It will be done shortly.
If anyone wants to debate the issue of us not accepting any new customers, please open a new thread as I won't darken Mike's thread any further with off topic arguments.
When the job is done, Mike will make his own truthful comments. He is in no way obliged to give us a good review nor is he estopped from giving us a bad one.
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 09/09/10 11:29 PM
Quote:
Quote:
ok I guess I think I follow were you are going with this. Interested what others take on this.
My take reading these last comments is based on experience. Salesman in every business never tell the truth. When they say things are great, more business than we can handle, they usually are in finicial trouble and fold the tent in short order. I can't tell you how many times I have heard this line just before the end. I haven't a clue where this guy is at, but don't be surprised.
Just to be clear, I'm not a salesman and we are not closing the doors to everyone, just the ones we don't want to work with.
We own the shop, the land under it and all of our tools. I personally own several six pack and hemi Mopars.
In my experience, people who are in financial trouble take in as many jobs as they can get in order to rip people off - that's the exact opposite of what we are doing.
I challenge you to find anyone who's job we haven't finished and who was not 100% satisfied, excluding the few who ran out of money and could not afford to have their jobs finished.
We only had three guys to start with and we were right up front about that. Now there are only two of us and I personally can't do paint and body. Does it sound like we should be taking on more work or be able to do it faster now?
Posted By: hotairballoonpilot
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 09/10/10 12:09 AM
sorry to open a can of worms on this thread. Good luck!
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 09/10/10 03:34 AM
Tim is right. Once they are done with my car and I have it back in my possession again, I will do a write-up of this whole experience.
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 10/08/10 06:02 PM
Last week I took a trip down south to see my Cuda. The car looks great. There is a couple of odds and ends that have to be fixed.(nothing major). When I have a chance I will post some pics. Thank you to all that have followed this thread and most of all thank you for your patience. Like I stated previously, there are no more speculations as to when this is going to be done. Check up on this thread weekly.
Posted By: shakerjoe
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 10/08/10 08:56 PM
Mike - good to hear that all seems to be coming to fruition - even if a little late for both parties involved and more than a few nerves getting a twist - happens in big projects sometimes - missed you the last few outings - Tommy has been keeping me informed - looking forward to the finished product - hang in there buddy
- Joe
Posted By: hotairballoonpilot
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 10/10/10 04:49 PM
beat allan to it.
Posted By: MrNormsTA
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 11/06/10 05:03 AM
Quote:
Last week I took a trip down south to see my Cuda. The car looks great. There is a couple of odds and ends that have to be fixed.(nothing major). When I have a chance I will post some pics. Thank you to all that have followed this thread and most of all thank you for your patience. Like I stated previously, there are no more speculations as to when this is going to be done. Check up on this thread weekly.
Any updates, would love to see some pics.
Posted By: hotairballoonpilot
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 11/06/10 03:21 PM
yeah been wondering about this too. any news tim?
Posted By: SteveA
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 11/08/10 11:06 PM
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 11/09/10 10:55 PM
I did say I was going to post some pics of my Cuda. I have decided not to. Since this is AMCR's restoration, they should promote this car with their own pics of the recent work.
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 11/09/10 11:00 PM
Quote:
I did say I was going to post some pics of my Cuda. I have decided not to. Since this is AMCR's restoration, they should promote this car with their own pics of the recent work.
Is it done yet?? Do you have the car yet???
Posted By: anlauto
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 11/09/10 11:34 PM
Quote:
I did say I was going to post some pics of my Cuda. I have decided not to. Since this is AMCR's restoration, they should promote this car with their own pics of the recent work.
Ouch....What happened there ?
Reguardless of who posts updated photos, we're all curious as heck to see the finished product....how close is it ? ....
Posted By: RJS
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 11/09/10 11:37 PM
Quote:
I did say I was going to post some pics of my Cuda. I have decided not to. Since this is AMCR's restoration, they should promote this car with their own pics of the recent work.
WOW!!! That's an odd response??????
Posted By: badblack68
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 11/10/10 02:41 AM
Seems to me that human nature is show off when your happy with something so others can share in your joy and happiness. Sounds to me like someone here isn't too happy or they would be bragging by either showing pictures or talking about their expirience... Leads me to believe the old saying that if you don't have anything nice to say it's better to say nothing at all.
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 11/10/10 03:09 AM
I knew there was way too much smoke being blown at the beginning of this thread. My
Posted By: anlauto
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 11/10/10 03:47 AM
Lets not jump to conclusions guys...From day one the cars owner has had nothing but praise for Tim and his crew...He also took responsibility for some of the delays...
I just can't believe it's taking so long when Tim stated his turn-around was real quick....I guess that black Super Bee isn't going to be finished either...
Maybe someone new will step up so Tim can have a good chance at showing off his work with the 25K max and quick turn around...
Posted By: hotairballoonpilot
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 11/10/10 05:25 AM
WOW! interesting response. I also wonder where tim is. see he has posted for sale adds but nothing more. Did the cars owner get burned? has he had the car for some time?
Posted By: SomeCarGuy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 11/10/10 12:59 PM
Posted By: LimeliteAero
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 11/10/10 03:17 PM
happy or sad, good, bad or indifferent we deserve a nugget here just for dealing with this thread.
if not just throw a lock on this beach.
Posted By: flypaper
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 11/10/10 04:09 PM
Quote:
I knew there was way too much smoke being blown at the beginning of this thread. My
you think?????
i'm still trying to figure out
what he exactly does
"Just to be clear, I'm not a salesman and we are not closing the doors to everyone"
"Now there are only two of us and I personally can't do paint and body."
Posted By: DPelletier
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 11/10/10 06:44 PM
Quote:
Lets not jump to conclusions guys...From day one the cars owner has had nothing but praise for Tim and his crew...He also took responsibility for some of the delays...
I just can't believe it's taking so long when Tim stated his turn-around was real quick....I guess that black Super Bee isn't going to be finished either...
Maybe someone new will step up so Tim can have a good chance at showing off his work with the 25K max and quick turn around...
Perhaps Tim is a good guy and perhaps his shop does good work but I avoided commenting on this thread for quite some time because I knew 2 things;
- 1) a resto NEVER goes exactly according to plan. A shop should be very careful when giving a firm schedule, especially when it is overly optimistic.
- 2) The $25k "max labour" thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth because frankly it has little to do with the final completed resto costs of the car. By the time you factor in the materials and work that was farmed out, I'd bet that the REAL and TOTAL resto cost was far closer to the figures that myself and others have put forward from time to time.
I hope the owner is happy with his car and can now enjoy it, but I'm not naive enough to think he spend anywhere near $25k.
Dave
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 11/10/10 09:53 PM
Hi Everyone,
I haven't been watching the thread because I thought the owner had taken it over. I didn't realize that he had opted out. No problem, I'm going to give the long and the short of this job. I'm sure I won't remember everything in this posting and I'll add more later when I do.
We learned a lot on this job, good and bad. We learned what we are good at, what we are bad at and just about everything in between. For those wondering about the bottom line on cost, we have no idea how much the owner spent on parts and restorations of parts that we didn't do.
We had communications issues on this job that will never happen again. We started with a slick show and go quality driver with correct colors and markings that evolved into as much an OEM resto as we were capable of doing. There was no change in cost to the customer.
The most frustrating problems we had were with aftermarket parts that were either incorrect or just plain didn't fit. We spent an obsurd amount of time re-engineering and/or repeatedly replacing parts until we got the correct ones, all at no charge to the customer. This was an expensive lesson for us as the customer provided all parts. If anyone ever tries to give me another YearOne wiring harness, I pledge to choke them with it.
The owner came to inspect the car some time ago and gave us a punch list most of which is done. The door and hood hinges are currently out being rebuilt. After we repaint them and reinstall them, we will redo the overspray on the underside of the tops of the quarter panels inside of the trunk to the owner's taste and be finished.
People change their minds and we do our best to work with them. I would have to say that this car required more than the average amount of changes.
The car is being picked up with some problems with the parts we had no responsibility to purchase or rebuild. We just don't have the ability to fix everything.
What are we going to offer in the future? We don't know for sure. Our ideal scenario would be if we had someone like Alan to work with so we could do nothing but body and paint. We can fix anything in the way of metal work and make it look like it's never been touched. We can paint as well as anyone and still keep the prices fair. We also enjoy engines and suspensions.
If you go back in this thread and look at the pace we kept for body and paint, you'll see that is where we soar.
We're not going away but we are taking a look at what services we offer.
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 11/10/10 10:00 PM
Here's a pic from last July when it was "almost" finished.
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 11/10/10 10:07 PM
Here's another... I almost forgot how to load pics!
Posted By: DPelletier
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 11/10/10 11:59 PM
Tim,
Thanks for the post. I'm sure the owner is going to be very happy with his car and it looks like you've done a great job.
A year or so ago, Alan, myself and some others posted in a thread regarding resto costs and I took exception to your comments that the figures I (and others) quoted were excessive. Your $25k max labour tagline and "revolutionary pricing" were bandied about in a manner that I found a tad arrogant. Several people jumped on the band wagon and commented that other resto shops were quoting $40k or so for this type of work with the insinuation that such an amount was way too high.
Now, after looking back over the entire thread and realizing that the car was "80% dissassembled" when it arrived in your shop and that it would be leaving sans interior and that the engine and various other sub-assy's and components were done by others or by the owner, I would suggest that the total resto cost was well over double the max labor figure and probably much more than that. In fairness, I know you never said what the total costs would be. I also noticed that your re-examination of your services and the noted "expensive lessons" that were learned undoubtably mean that you didn't do so well on your labor cap.
Between unforeseen damage, delay on parts and other providers, accounts payment difficulties, illnesses, weather and owner's expectations, perhaps it is easier to see why most other shops are reticent to give a firm quote and also that the final bill is typically more than $25k for labor.
I'm not trying to rub salt in any wounds or to say I told you so as much as to try to point out the true costs of a restoration to anybody considering it. Nobody benefits from a half completed project and an empty bank account. As you have stated, it would appear that metal work and paint and body are your shop's forte (or it was before the older fella left?) but Alan was right on the money when he said a complete resto with all components included is a 1000 hour job and I was right on the money when I said a business would have difficulties living with $25/hr.
I wish you the best with whatever choices you make regarding your company and it's services and to both you and the car's owner; beautiful car, beautiful job.
respectfully,
Dave
Posted By: b54406barrel
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 11/11/10 12:37 AM
Quote:
Hi Everyone,
I haven't been watching the thread because I thought the owner had taken it over. I didn't realize that he had opted out. No problem, I'm going to give the long and the short of this job. I'm sure I won't remember everything in this posting and I'll add more later when I do.
We learned a lot on this job, good and bad. We learned what we are good at, what we are bad at and just about everything in between. For those wondering about the bottom line on cost, we have no idea how much the owner spent on parts and restorations of parts that we didn't do.
We had communications issues on this job that will never happen again. We started with a slick show and go quality driver with correct colors and markings that evolved into as much an OEM resto as we were capable of doing. There was no change in cost to the customer.
The most frustrating problems we had were with aftermarket parts that were either incorrect or just plain didn't fit. We spent an obsurd amount of time re-engineering and/or repeatedly replacing parts until we got the correct ones, all at no charge to the customer. This was an expensive lesson for us as the customer provided all parts. If anyone ever tries to give me another YearOne wiring harness, I pledge to choke them with it.
The owner came to inspect the car some time ago and gave us a punch list most of which is done. The door and hood hinges are currently out being rebuilt. After we repaint them and reinstall them, we will redo the overspray on the underside of the tops of the quarter panels inside of the trunk to the owner's taste and be finished.
People change their minds and we do our best to work with them. I would have to say that this car required more than the average amount of changes.
The car is being picked up with some problems with the parts we had no responsibility to purchase or rebuild. We just don't have the ability to fix everything.
What are we going to offer in the future? We don't know for sure. Our ideal scenario would be if we had someone like Alan to work with so we could do nothing but body and paint. We can fix anything in the way of metal work and make it look like it's never been touched. We can paint as well as anyone and still keep the prices fair. We also enjoy engines and suspensions.
If you go back in this thread and look at the pace we kept for body and paint, you'll see that is where we soar.
We're not going away but we are taking a look at what services we offer.
I read the first couple pages of this post & could see where it was going & I'm sure not going to bother to read the rest. First, because paint dabs & such is not my thing but mainly because there seems a lot of hostility from some of the posters. Don't understand why but no matter. I will say based on when the thread started to when you were buffing clear went pretty darn quick & based on the last few pictures on final page, came out very nicely. Truly good body/paint shops are few & far between. I hope you stay around & continue to offer good quality work for a reasonable price.
Posted By: SomeCarGuy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 11/11/10 01:47 AM
People are usually surprised to hear how cheap labor is here where I'm at. So I pitched a job like this to one of my body shop owner friends and he said "No dice".
He immediately cited owners switching what they want midstream as a big problem with that approach. Another big problem is that even the most minor of imperfections in paint or body cause the most problems. Cars like this tend to be owned by guys who want it better than perfect. He told me the extra time it would take and material costs if something has to be redone would just blow a 25K budget out of the water.
He has had his shop open since '71 and has worked in body and paint longer than that. You have to know him to get an old car done, but he does them. I think Tim learned a lot by doing this one.
The owners last comment is pretty strange though.
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 11/11/10 01:56 AM
Quote:
Tim,
Thanks for the post. I'm sure the owner is going to be very happy with his car and it looks like you've done a great job.
A year or so ago, Alan, myself and some others posted in a thread regarding resto costs and I took exception to your comments that the figures I (and others) quoted were excessive. Your $25k max labour tagline and "revolutionary pricing" were bandied about in a manner that I found a tad arrogant. Several people jumped on the band wagon and commented that other resto shops were quoting $40k or so for this type of work with the insinuation that such an amount was way too high.
Now, after looking back over the entire thread and realizing that the car was "80% dissassembled" when it arrived in your shop and that it would be leaving sans interior and that the engine and various other sub-assy's and components were done by others or by the owner, I would suggest that the total resto cost was well over double the max labor figure and probably much more than that. In fairness, I know you never said what the total costs would be. I also noticed that your re-examination of your services and the noted "expensive lessons" that were learned undoubtably mean that you didn't do so well on your labor cap.
Between unforeseen damage, delay on parts and other providers, accounts payment difficulties, illnesses, weather and owner's expectations, perhaps it is easier to see why most other shops are reticent to give a firm quote and also that the final bill is typically more than $25k for labor.
I'm not trying to rub salt in any wounds or to say I told you so as much as to try to point out the true costs of a restoration to anybody considering it. Nobody benefits from a half completed project and an empty bank account. As you have stated, it would appear that metal work and paint and body are your shop's forte (or it was before the older fella left?) but Alan was right on the money when he said a complete resto with all components included is a 1000 hour job and I was right on the money when I said a business would have difficulties living with $25/hr.
I wish you the best with whatever choices you make regarding your company and it's services and to both you and the car's owner; beautiful car, beautiful job.
respectfully,
Dave
Dave, Just a follow up for clarity's sake.
-"80% disassembled" might have been a "slight" over statement.
-$25k was our MAX labor charge. The resto contract on this build was $18k.
-The customer did a lot of his own excellent restoration on many parts, as he showed in this thread.
-The customer was quoted $75k (if I understood correctly) to do the whole job by another Moparts member.
It is our belief that he saved a lot of money going with us regardless of the other restoration costs.
Still, we learned a lot and will never be responsible to fix other vendors mistakes, inaccuracies or inferior products in the future.
We were not "responsible" on this job but we tried our best and we couldn't fix all of the issues anyway. We did everything we could do to help the customer at no extra charge in order to live up to the reputation we wanted to build. If you ask me, that's pretty Revolutionary!
We still have no problem giving firm quotes for body and paint, engines and suspensions and will continue to do so. All of our jobs are fixed bid.
Everyone says the rest is the easy part so, we're going to leave "the rest" to everyone else (at least until we get better at it).
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 11/11/10 04:16 PM
Tim is right, some of the aftermarket stuff like the weatherstrip had to be modified. We had some trouble with the rallye gauge cluster (fuel, temp, oil). I truly believe the newer sending units are causing the problem. Down the road I will restore the original harnesses and put them back on the car. Most of the other headaches came from the other smaller details as well. I dont want to get into that right now because I have all the issues resolved and they will be corrected when the car is home. Tim did try to fix the gauge situation but he did not rebuild them so no blame can be put on them.
Obviously most of you hit the nail on the head. This car to restore cost way more than Tims fixed price. EIther way it has been a tremendous learning experience. I did what I could do in house, AMCR did what they could do and the rest went all over the place (SMS, Jules, Instrument Specialties, F Badalson, Nassau Chromium, SWD plating, Action Pwdr Ct, Ssnake Oyl, Dixie Restorations, etc..) Then there is the list of places I had to get NOS parts, paints, dyes and other misc stuff. This adds up big time. Even when this car comes home, I still have a ton of work to do on it.
For the comment about Tim posting further pics. It was not meant to get on his case. I just felt that he should post pics of the shops work and I will show the rest as you can see by the other pages on this thread. I understand everyone has their two cents to add either positive or negative. If you have negative, you are wasting space on this thread because I dont care what you think. For the people that have added a positive note to help and they know who they are, my thanks go out to you. Every little bit helps and I plan to help others with the info that was passed to me. Stay tuned....
Tim you guys are getting some real experience with B7 cars, you should post pics of the B7 roadrunner. When I was down there I had chance to see it. Very nice!
Posted By: DPelletier
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 11/11/10 08:31 PM
Thanks for the reply and clarification Tim. As I said the car looks great. you absolutely went above and beyond.
Most shops, especially with all paid employees just can't afford to eat those excess costs....or at least not for long! I have a pretty good idea of the final costs (unfortunately!) for a resto like this, though to be perfectly honest, this car is restored far more correctly than my own.(I overrestored mine on purpose and didn't pay any attention to paint daubs and correct suspension coatings (or lack thereof)). Still, I had much the same work done by many of the same Vendors and though I'm extremely happy with most of the work, it certainly does add up!
To the Owner; it'd be great to see some finished pics when she's all done.
Dave
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 11/12/10 02:13 AM
Quote:
Thanks for the reply and clarification Tim. As I said the car looks great. you absolutely went above and beyond. Most shops, especially with all paid employees just can't afford to eat those excess costs....or at least not for long! I have a pretty good idea of the final costs (unfortunately!) for a resto like this, though to be perfectly honest, this car is restored far more correctly than my own.(I overrestored mine on purpose and didn't pay any attention to paint daubs and correct suspension coatings (or lack thereof)). Still, I had much the same work done by many of the same Vendors and though I'm extremely happy with most of the work, it certainly does add up!
To the Owner; it'd be great to see some finished pics when she's all done.
I will definetely post pics when I am done with everything.
Posted By: hotairballoonpilot
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 11/12/10 09:15 PM
On a side note. I have to deal with the bad resto parts and that sort of thing. We don't charge for the extra work even if the customer brings in the part. We did a 58 T-bird that the dash pad was junk but all that you could get at the time. My boss and I had hours into reworking it to get it to look even nice. We never added hours to his bill or charged him extra. Just made him understand that we aren't happy with it but without it the car isn't done and we don't get the word out of our work. Kinda a pay it forward thing. Hope it works out for both parties.
Posted By: badblack68
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 11/14/10 06:55 PM
The car isn't finished yet?
Posted By: 68KillerBee
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 11/15/10 09:18 AM
Quote:
The car isn't finished yet?
off topic... my dad just bought some front shock bushings on ebay from u tonight. i knew the "peps parts" looked familiar, then just spotted your name on here and put it all together. the end
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 12/07/10 04:19 PM
Just a quick update to whoever is still left following this thread, LOL. I took a trip down to the shop a week back for a final inspection of the car. For the most part everything came out real nice. As soon as I get some pics uploaded I will post them. We got some nice outside shots of the car. The only bad part of the trip was that we brought the NY weather to Georgia. Car should be home soon and then my winter project shall begin. Looking forward to it.
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/06/11 03:37 AM
This is the moment most of you have been waiting for. Photos of the actual car. Keep in mind I still have to do a lot of detaling and assembly when it comes home. Here is the Cuda out in afternoon sun last month when I was down south. Sorry for the delay. Enjoy.
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/06/11 03:38 AM
another
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/06/11 03:39 AM
more
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/06/11 03:40 AM
last one for now
Posted By: shakerjoe
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/06/11 03:55 AM
Looks good Mike
really like the color - can't wait to see it in person
MT'S look like they really fill up the rear - what size are they
Posted By: anlauto
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/06/11 03:57 AM
Looks fantastic...Please be very careful drilling the holes for the belt molding NOW that the car is painted...
One "pet peeve" I can never understand why people install the dash without first completing the assembly 100%
It's so much easier to work on it on the bench then when it's in the car....again just a personal peeve...
Have fun this Winter
Posted By: anlauto
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/06/11 04:02 AM
When can we expect the "FULL REVIEW" of your experence of American Muscle Car Revolution ?
Posted By: 70440+6bbl
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/06/11 05:43 AM
Quote:
Looks fantastic...Please be very careful drilling the holes for the belt molding NOW that the car is painted...
One "pet peeve" I can never understand why people install the dash without first completing the assembly 100%
It's so much easier to work on it on the bench then when it's in the car....again just a personal peeve...
Have fun this Winter
Early '70 'Cudas typically did not have the door belt moldings. I can't remember what the SPD of this car was (I looked ino buying it before the present owner picked it up).
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/06/11 01:07 PM
Wow...you have long way to go. Disappointing to me considing how long this has been going on.
Someone hasn't done this before judging by what I see.
Good luck with it...
Posted By: biginchmotor
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/06/11 01:21 PM
Looks great, thanks for the pictures. Keep at it.....John.
Posted By: anlauto
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/06/11 01:24 PM
Quote:
Early '70 'Cudas typically did not have the door belt moldings. I can't remember what the SPD of this car was (I looked into buying it before the present owner picked it up).
I've never heard this before...interesting
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/06/11 01:28 PM
Quote:
Looks fantastic...Please be very careful drilling the holes for the belt molding NOW that the car is painted...
One "pet peeve" I can never understand why people install the dash without first completing the assembly 100%
It's so much easier to work on it on the bench then when it's in the car....again just a personal peeve...
Have fun this Winter
Alan, the car never came with the belt moldings. I have a pic of it when it was brand new and they were not on the car then. Again, I have a lot of work to do, and the dash may have to come out again. Your right, it should not have been installed without having everything on it. Thank you all for the comments.
To answer the most important question. My final write up for AMCR will happen as soon as the car is home. Then we can conclude this thing once and for all and move on to someone elses thread, LOL..
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/06/11 01:30 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Looks fantastic...Please be very careful drilling the holes for the belt molding NOW that the car is painted...
One "pet peeve" I can never understand why people install the dash without first completing the assembly 100%
It's so much easier to work on it on the bench then when it's in the car....again just a personal peeve...
Have fun this Winter
Early '70 'Cudas typically did not have the door belt moldings. I can't remember what the SPD of this car was (I looked ino buying it before the present owner picked it up).
Supposed SPD of this car is 10/10/69
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/06/11 01:35 PM
Quote:
Wow...you have long way to go. Disappointing to me considing how long this has been going on.
Someone hasn't done this before judging by what I see.
Good luck with it...
Agreed. I do have a long way to go. I am not going to rush to put it back together. I will make sure everything is done right. These thing always take longer than expected. The redo of the bottom was what dragged this thing on and that there was one person working on this car most of the time.
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/06/11 01:38 PM
Quote:
Looks good Mike really like the color - can't wait to see it in person MT'S look like they really fill up the rear - what size are they
To big, LOL. They are coming off and the 15X7 rallyes w/ polyglas are going on. If anyone wants those tires when they come off, let me know. They have about 100 miles on them.
Posted By: gtx69
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/06/11 04:20 PM
What size are the tires?
Posted By: b54406barrel
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/06/11 05:55 PM
They look identical to my 30-some year old, 'new' m/t g-60's.
Car looks great!
Posted By: 6bblgt
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/06/11 05:56 PM
There are a number of 'Cudas with SPDs during the first part of October '69 that had broadcast sheets that were printed on '69 forms.
For some reason these 'Cudas DID NOT have M31 - "belt mouldings" installed or codes stamped on fender tags.
This would be the first LA assembled car that I've seen with this issue.
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/06/11 06:33 PM
i took a look at the fender tag and it does have M31 on it, however and I know this next comment could start another thread. When Galen did the decode on my tag, he made a note on the sheet about the M31 and it said something about them missing on some cudas.
Posted By: DPelletier
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/06/11 06:53 PM
Car looks good, love the color and the paint looks nice.
Dave
Posted By: domingo
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/07/11 05:49 PM
Nice color.
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/08/11 07:29 PM
She's on her way back to NY so, I thought I'd post a few final pics from our end.
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/08/11 07:31 PM
Here's a shot of the roof showing off the paint.
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/08/11 07:32 PM
Side View...
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/08/11 07:33 PM
Front end...
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/08/11 07:34 PM
Corner shot...
Posted By: anlauto
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/08/11 09:47 PM
Get rid of the "blue" hood pop up spring !
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/08/11 10:21 PM
If that's all you see wrong at this point, I'm happy. We learned a lot on this car but we still don't know everything.
Posted By: badblack68
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/09/11 01:03 AM
The car still isn't finished???
Posted By: hotairballoonpilot
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promise - 01/09/11 07:01 AM
Quote:
The car still isn't finished???
ouch.......
on a side note car does look nice in the pics.
Posted By: bomber1965
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 01/09/11 07:58 AM
(quote)
I don't see how any machine could be powerful enough, hot enough or whatever enough to remove 1/2 inch thick undercoating but somehow not remove inspection markings.
I see at one of the posts above, they recommend softening the undercoating with gasoline. Our regs are pretty minimal here in GA but using gasoline as a chemical solvent is one thing that we can't do. We don't screw around with the EPA here. The guy we bought the shop from had such heavy EPA fines that the government got all of the money from the sale.
Dry Ice Blasting Principles
Cleaning with dry ice! This new development is quickly expanding around the world. One system uses small rice size pellets of dry ice shooting them out of a jet nozzle with compressed air. It works somewhat like sandblasting or high-pressure water or steam blasting, with superior results. The frigid temperature of the dry ice -109.3°F or -78.5°C "blasting" against the material to be removed, causes it to shrink and loose adhesion from its sub surface. Additionally when some of of dry ice penetrates through the material to be removed, it comes in contact with the underlying surface. The warmer sub surface causes the dry ice to convert back into carbon dioxide gas. The gas has 800 times greater volume and expands behind the material speeding up its removal. Paint, oil, grease, asphalt, tar, decals, soot, dirt, ink, resins, and adhesives are some of the materials removed by this procedure. Only the removed material must be disposed of, as the dry ice sublimes into the atmosphere.
Posted By: clownin mopar
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 01/09/11 07:07 PM
Your car looks great so far, sorry to hear it's not done.
I'm not sure American Muscle Car Revolution knew how difficult correct restorations would be! With the amount of real time involved in doing these, the 25k labor charge is un-realistic to me. I'm not here to criticize their work, only to point out some lessons for others.
Everyone seems to say the top shops in the country charge to much, but going by this thread it doesn't seem to be so. Why? EXPERIENCE
At this point you have invested all this money, and time, in a car that is still far from done & driving. You have gotten hosed some horribly inflated prices, like the Frank Badalson trans job! A pro shop could have done this in house for $500.00.
You have had to do a lot of research, and a lot of things have had to be redone on this car that should have been done correctly in the first place. A top shop could have had this done already, correct in the details, running & driving delivered to you and for $50-75k, parts & labor. If that sounds like a lot of money, how much is your time & sanity worth??
I hope your car gets done soon, it's very nice! Good luck
Posted By: Paul Jacobs
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 01/09/11 07:14 PM
Quote:
Your car looks great so far, sorry to hear it's not done.
I'm not sure American Muscle Car Revolution knew how difficult correct restorations would be! With the amount of real time involved in doing these, the 25k labor charge is un-realistic to me. I'm not here to criticize their work, only to point out some lessons for others.
Everyone seems to say the top shops in the country charge to much, but going by this thread it doesn't seem to be so. Why? EXPERIENCE
At this point you have invested all this money, and time, in a car that is still far from done & driving. You have gotten hosed some horribly inflated prices, like the Frank Badalson trans job! A pro shop could have done this in house for $500.00.
You have had to do a lot of research, and a lot of things have had to be redone on this car that should have been done correctly in the first place. A top shop could have had this done already, correct in the details, running & driving delivered to you and for $50-75k, parts & labor. If that sounds like a lot of money, how much is your time & sanity worth??
I hope your car gets done soon, it's very nice! Good luck
I try to tell every potential customer those exact words, but the initial dollar figure of $50-75k sometimes scares people to death. When the expense is drawn over a 2-3 year period that helps a lot. Plus, sometimes people just want to drop off a car, knowing when they get it back, it's correct and has over 200 road miles on it, ready to go-with no headaches to them!
You will have a beautiful car, don't fret!
Posted By: 67plymouthman
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 01/09/11 07:23 PM
I think the customer probably received a pretty good value. I know several body shop owners that will do restorations when the business is a little slow. I have seen some shops take up to 4 or 5 years. Anytime you take a car to a shop you never know what you will get back or if the shop even finishes the project. Of course you can spend 50-100k on a restoration but who can afford those? And I don't think Tim is marketing OE Gold restorations. I wonder how many hours Tim and his crew have into this project and. I bet when it is all said and done their shop will be lucky to have earned $50-60/hr.
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 01/09/11 08:30 PM
Quote:
I think the customer probably received a pretty good value. I know several body shop owners that will do restorations when the business is a little slow. I have seen some shops take up to 4 or 5 years. Anytime you take a car to a shop you never know what you will get back or if the shop even finishes the project. Of course you can spend 50-100k on a restoration but who can afford those? And I don't think Tim is marketing OE Gold restorations. I wonder how many hours Tim and his crew have into this project and. I bet when it is all said and done their shop will be lucky to have earned $50-60/hr.
To get the full picture on this resto, you have to go back a few pages and read forward. The long and the short of it are that the customer had a change of heart when the car was almost done so, we ended up doing a whole lot of work twice.
IMHO, we restored the car twice for far less money than many shops would have charged to do it once. We did more than the customer asked us to do, did our best to troubleshoot problems with other people's parts and work that we had no part of and we think we made the customer happy. We'll see when he gets the car home and does his posting here.
We learned a whole lot on this one and other cars we've done went a lot smoother. Yes, it took much, much longer than it was supposed to but the job changed completely between the start and finish and there were huge delays sometimes in getting correct parts. We make no excuses for working on other cars to pay the bills at times while this one had to sit as a result. I personally believe that there are many shops that would not have kept their word as we did. I've heard a thousand stories about guys having to pick up their cars when shops gave up working on them. That has never happened with us, regardless of the cost, and it never will.
I know that the whole thread is cumbersome, but you can't just read the last part and make judgements. I also know that not everyone will agree but I don't believe that anyone on here or anywhere else would have done the amount of work we did at the level of quality we provided for the price we charged.
$50-$60 per hour? Not even close. Maybe 50-60 Pesos per hour.
Will we still do cars for a $25k MAX? Yes, we're much better at it now!
BUT, we know it will take longer than we want it to. Hubert retired early at only age 71 so he could marry a 40 year old and now uses all of his energy on her.
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 01/09/11 09:11 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Your car looks great so far, sorry to hear it's not done.
I'm not sure American Muscle Car Revolution knew how difficult correct restorations would be! With the amount of real time involved in doing these, the 25k labor charge is un-realistic to me. I'm not here to criticize their work, only to point out some lessons for others.
Everyone seems to say the top shops in the country charge to much, but going by this thread it doesn't seem to be so. Why? EXPERIENCE
At this point you have invested all this money, and time, in a car that is still far from done & driving. You have gotten hosed some horribly inflated prices, like the Frank Badalson trans job! A pro shop could have done this in house for $500.00.
You have had to do a lot of research, and a lot of things have had to be redone on this car that should have been done correctly in the first place. A top shop could have had this done already, correct in the details, running & driving delivered to you and for $50-75k, parts & labor. If that sounds like a lot of money, how much is your time & sanity worth??
I hope your car gets done soon, it's very nice! Good luck
I try to tell every potential customer those exact words, but the initial dollar figure of $50-75k sometimes scares people to death. When the expense is drawn over a 2-3 year period that helps a lot. Plus, sometimes people just want to drop off a car, knowing when they get it back, it's correct and has over 200 road miles on it, ready to go-with no headaches to them!
You will have a beautiful car, don't fret!
Thanks for the comments. I am not giving up on anything. This car will always be a work in progress even when its 100% back together. As I find more detail parts, it will add to this project. You have to understand thats it will never see the Mopar Nats or even local shows. I did it because I love these Mopars and they represent a special part of automotive history. Its also kind of a challenge to hunt parts down and the people you meet along the way have educated me quite a bit. Some really good people and in some cases not so good people.
The Badalson issue is long resolved. Lesson learned but there wont be a next resto so a lesson to all. Frank is a very knowledgeable person on these cars and I will continue to buy his resto products as I need them.
Anyway, when the car comes home and I start working on it, i will post some updated pics every once in a while.
In the next week or two, I will give a thorough write up on my experience with AMCR. Stay tuned........
Posted By: rayztoy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 01/09/11 09:52 PM
Mike,
The car is looking very nice! Take your time on finishing details. Keep the pix coming!
Tim,
You have the patience of a Saint! All and all, job well done!!
Posted By: Dodge
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 01/10/11 01:06 AM
Very nice car Mike!!! Any chance the original owner has a pic of the car when new?
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 01/10/11 04:57 AM
Quote:
Very nice car Mike!!! Any chance the original owner has a pic of the car when new?
Here is the car when brand new. This was taken in late November of 69. The car was ordered from the now defunct Farland-Buell Chrysler/Plymouth out of Denver, CO. Sorry its a B&W pic. I do have some color shots from the early 70's. I have to dig them up. Again, thanks for the comments.
Posted By: anlauto
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 01/10/11 12:54 PM
I dare ya to go with the same wheel/tire combo
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 01/10/11 03:23 PM
the original owner said the car did not handle well with the a34 package and those 14" rims. He had the rear rims widened shortly after getting the car. Here is another pic. This one is circa 71-72 when the orig owners brother got a fairly new Challenger. The options were similar to the Cuda. I am glad there were some pics for this car. Unfortunately they were probably taken on junk Ektachrome instead of Kodachrome film.
Posted By: Dave Watt
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 01/10/11 03:28 PM
Your Cuda looks fantastic. The B7 blue really shines in the sun.
Hopefully you'll be
this summer.
Posted By: FJ5_Fish
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 01/26/11 05:54 PM
Quote:
Everyone seems to say the top shops in the country charge to much, but going by this thread it doesn't seem to be so. Why? EXPERIENCE
At this point you have invested all this money, and time, in a car that is still far from done & driving. You have gotten hosed some horribly inflated prices, like the Frank Badalson trans job! A pro shop could have done this in house for $500.00.
I hope your car gets done soon, it's very nice! Good luck
Mr. Clownin Mopar
Frank and Roger have done a lot of work for me over the years with great results and a fair price. They are two of the most honest people I know in this car hobby. I saw this and called Frank. What was not discussed or revealed about the price was all the extra work that was done. Maybe you can get a rebuilder to do a tortured 4-speed trans for $500.00 (good luck with that). To rebuild and properly restore a 4-speed is a different story. What you end up with is a painted up generic trans. Not mentioned was the proper rebuild using premium internals, set-up, proper restoration of the case, the extra plating of the externals included ancillary items such as NOS boots, plating of the clutch fork and brackets, correct ink and paint stampings/marks etc. and the fabication of the cradle and the crate for shipping. There were also other extra's the customer wanted as well.
It's easy to sit here behind a screen name and blast away - especially without knowing all the facts.
I am not writing this because anyone asked me to - I am writing this because I think the integrity and reputation of good hobby people was being questioned and shot at wrongly.
If you want to have something that is 100% OE correct and have zero worries about the performance, durability and no excuses having to be made.....quality and craftsmanship costs more. There are rebuilders and there are restorers.
Posted By: moparo
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 01/26/11 08:24 PM
Here we go I hear this all the time " you could have paid less going this way" Yep you are correct to bad all those people that do it that way end up going the expensive route after the work they got done SUCKS.
Hey why don't you post picture of the trans job for $500 bucks.
I bet it looks and runs like the one I had to take out of a car of for a customers AAR (He had the trans done on his own mind you).
I personally know what it takes to get a trans to look OE and just the cleaning and case prep cost more than $500.
If you paid for an OE job and got a cast iron painted piece of crap back then something is going really wrong here.
Posted By: anlauto
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 01/26/11 08:41 PM
Did the owner of this Cuda in question post pictures of his finished transmission, if so I missed it...
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 01/26/11 08:47 PM
The transmission in question is on my car and it came out real nice. A while back, a number of people jumped ugly when I mentioned the price of the job. I did not mention it to start a mele. With some of the comments made, it made me think something was up. Frank and I talked in length about the restoration process and the issue was resolved. Like I said in my posts a few pages back, I was just surprised how much this type of work went for. I am sure there will be no issues with his work.
Posted By: Dave Watt
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 01/26/11 08:48 PM
Quote:
Did the owner of this Cuda in question post pictures of his finished transmission, if so I missed it...
Here it is:
Posted By: Dave Watt
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 01/26/11 08:48 PM
Bolted to engine:
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 01/26/11 08:52 PM
Quote:
Did the owner of this Cuda in question post pictures of his finished transmission, if so I missed it...
page 4 alan
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 01/28/11 10:01 PM
**********AMERICAN***MUSCLE*CAR***REVOLUTION**********
**********PART***ONE**********
-PAINT & BODY REVIEW-
______________________________________________________________________________________
Ladies & Gentlemen, this is the moment a lot of you have been waiting for. This is part one of my experience with Tim D's American Muscle Car Revolution. This review will cover all paint and body work done on my 1970 Plymouth Cuda by AMCR. Basically they had a really good solid car to work on. Part two will be in a few weeks and that will cover the mechanical/suspension work AMCR did on my car. Since the carb had to be sent out again I cant really make a review for this end of the project yet because I have not driven the car thoroughly yet. So far so good. Stay tuned...
______________________________________________________________________________________
-------------------BACKGROUND--INFO---------------------
______________________________________________________________________________________
When I started this project three years ago, I was only planning to do a repaint back to the original B7 color (the second owner had it repainted to 71 B7). When I bought the Cuda, the original motor had been through a minor but incorrect rebuild and the original transmission had some minor problems. I had the original 410 gear removed and replaced with a more street friendly 3.54. The rotisserie idea was not in my mind yet because the car was pretty intact and the extremely heavy dealership undercoat was preserving the car pretty well on the underside. The usual spots had some minor surface rust and all the original sheetmetal was intact except a the front driver side fender which was replaced in the early 70's. The original owner that had the car for 31 years clarified that and obviously left it garaged or covered during ownership. I am the third owner of the car.
______________________________________________________________________________________
------------THE-SEARCH------------
_____________________________________________________________________________________At first I wanted to keep the car in NY at a local shop. Estimates were gotten from several decent autobody shops. The prices ranged from $14K to 45K. Most did not even look at the car thoroughly and threw prices out there and said these were the best case scenarios (no panel replacement, just strip outer shell to bare metal, fix imperfections, prime & repaint. Granted, I had to do the disassembly to get these great prices,LOL. The overall vibe that I got was that they did not want to do it because these are long term jobs take space from the usual quick money fender benders that they do.
A friend eventually pointed me in the direction to a shop on the north shore that did a nice job repainting his impala. After a few visits and detailed conversations of the work I wanted done, we struck a deal, I took the car apart bagging and tagging everything and had the car towed to the shop. Now he promised a 6 month turnaround because he claimed the winter was slow. Needless to say 4 months passed, the car was moved from one side of the shop to the other and nothing was done. I kept getting the runaround as to why nothing hsa been done yet. I am glad they did not touch the car at all because I would've been going through a 2nd resto when I retire, LOL... This time delay proved to be valuable for two reasons. One, it freed up space and two it bought me time to research other shops outside of NY. I knew of moparts for a while before I started this project and i figured it would be a good place to start looking for a shop. It was during a search that I found AMCR's advertisement and I was shocked at what they were offering.(Everyone else seemed shocked as well,LOL). Rotisserie resto work for a set price. I was thinking to myself of the great condition of the car and all the parts coming off and figured this would now be a candidate for an all out rotisserie job. After a few conversations with Tim of the work to be done and looking through his shops portfolio, I decided to use them for this job. The portfolio was impressive and the paint and body guy had been doing this work for 30+ years. He could handle any job thrown his way. Some of the rotted wrecks in the portfolio were basically brought back to life with a whole lot of master fab and metal work. Also, the fact that they had space to start this job ASAP was another plus.
______________________________________________________________________________________
----------GEORGIA-BOUND-----------____________________________________________________________________________________
When the car arrived at the shop in august of 09, they started on it immediately and had the thing hand stripped to bare metal within a week or two. and mounted on the rotisserie They sent pics of the work as they billed and luckily there was no severe body damage just a few small dents,nick and dings covered by the second repaint. Everything was fixed and I went to look at the car in person and was pleased with the work that had been done.
Next phase was the paint. My big fear was not their skills with body work but whether or not these guys could match that b7 perfectly. Its one of Chryslers nicest colors but also hard to match. That was my worry from the start but Tim reassured me that they would match it. Since they never did a B7 car, I pointed them in the direction of Roger Gibson if they needed any guidance with the color. Apparently he never did one either. Roger did help out with some other things. There was a lot of research from which paint to use down to the primers to LA style darker primer to use underneath it.
There was a slight delay before I approved the test panel, they shot for me.
In the end, I decided on the factory process which used a red oxide primer underneath the base coat. Pros, the color ended up matching, cons, hopefully no chipped paint. The closest match 70 B7 was 2020 Shopline by PPG. Believe it or not the Global was not an exact match. However we used a high quality clear over the base. I could have done a single stage, but I wanted a more durable paint job. During the paint process, all non B7 color parts were shot during this period. (suspension, master cyl, torsion bars, dana, etc..). Again, pictures were constantly emailed to update on the work. Keep in mind the progress was not as rapid because they got two more cars in so they had to divide their time between three (70 RR vert, Charger RT and my Cuda). Assembly took a while because of several delays on my end waiting on parts to be finished. They wont be brought up because they have nothing to do with AMCR. This dragged reassembly out a few extra months.
Now, here comes my only regret of the project. The infamous redo of the bottom of the car. Basically in april or may of 2010, all the big stuff was back on the car. After looking through pics that Tim sent, the dark gray primer was not sitting well with me. I found some clear shots above the gas tank of black primer. This change when the car was almost done cost several months extra headaches for the shop. I do apologize over and over and wish I never did this at this phase. Also a reduced staff didnt help progress either. Eventually, the second reassembly was completed around the starting and finishing of some other projects. My second to last visit to the shop was in October 2010 to inspect the car. There was a few minor things to be addressed. Another thing that held up the project in the end and I am annoyed I did not think of it sooner was a hood and door hinge rebuild by SMS(EXCELLENT WORK). Obviously this required more paint work when they came back. Fast forward to a cold ass morning late december/early january 2011 when the Cuda arrived via Passport Auto. The fun begins!!!!!
__________________-----REPORT--CARD-----_________________________
Here it is folks, the long awaited paint/body report card for AMCR
Overall paint & body grade A (outstanding with the exception of a few small issues)
Customer Service- A+
Professionalism and not giving up when the bandwagon attacked- A+
Execution of 2nd redo of bottom- A+++++
Besides Tim who has been great during this whole experience, I want to point the spotlight on an unsung hero that will get a moparts standing ovation. His name is Mike Snyder. He is the master paint/body and all around great guy at AMCR. This man is one of the best paint/body guys out there. He is a perfectionist and tries his hardest to make all parties happy. HIs 30+ years of experience show on my car and the others he has done. He is not really on the computer much nor a member of this site but I felt he deserved a great deal of recognition as well. MIke, "THIS BUDS FOR YOU"!...
Like stated previously, part two writeup and conclusion is coming soon and then we can bring this thread to a close.
Posted By: dan9
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 01/28/11 11:51 PM
When you say the Global b7 paint didn't match, what didn't it match?
Posted By: anlauto
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 01/29/11 12:14 AM
Great review for sure but the score card is incomplete.
When shopping for a body shop or restoration shop, there are
THREE major criteria to be met.
1) QUALITY
2) TIME FRAME
3) FINAL COST
vs ESTIMATE
Now by reading this thread about your car, and seeing other posts by AMCR I think I can answer the first two with some certainty, however I will speak for most people when I ask... Did AMCR stick to their estimated cost? With the extra work that YOU ask for, I can understand being charged extra, but did they ever raise the cost of the project or go over their famous "$25K MAX labour special" for reasons that they discovered?
...and a question for TIM....If you did indeed stick to your estimated price....Did you "make money" or lose your shirt...by that I mean taking the total amount charged divided by the total hours spent...are you making minimum wage?
...Again a question for Tim...has a project like this made you rethink your $25K deal OR or quite contrary did it reaffirm your offer?
Posted By: EV2AAR
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 01/29/11 02:57 AM
I have enjoyed this whole process and want to give KUDOS to AMCR.
The owner appears to be completely happy based on his grading of Tim and his crew.
There are a number of posters on here waiting for you to fail so they can steer people to their services.
Good job Tim and AMCR. I would not hesitate to send you my AAR !
Posted By: FJ5_Fish
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 01/29/11 03:35 AM
Truth is - It is almost impossible to quote a price up front on a restoration. No one is 100% sure what lies ahead until they find all the trouble spots. I have seen many people (and friends) lose their ass sticking to quotes.
Posted By: anlauto
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 01/29/11 04:14 AM
Quote:
Truth is - It is almost impossible to quote a price up front on a restoration. No one is 100% sure what lies ahead until they find all the trouble spots. I have seen many people (and friends) lose their ass sticking to quotes.
That's exactly correct and that's why many people who have either done restorations or had restoration done gave Tim a very hard time when AMCR introduced their $25K MAX Special, on any job, on any car...
In the last year or so, with a couple of cars posted Tim is starting to prove themselves, and I wish them the best of luck.
I certainly, don't want, or don't need any of his potential business...we live a Country apart... 
I borrowed this years ago from Roger Gibson's web site and it's written on my "policy" too..
• It is impossible to estimate the exact cost of a restoration at the beginning of a job. A general figure, a high and low, can be given based on previous similar jobs. If a written estimate is required, expect them to be high enough to cover any possibilities. Restorations are performed as economically as possible without compromising the finished quality.
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 01/29/11 09:50 PM
Quote:
Great review for sure but the score card is incomplete.
When shopping for a body shop or restoration shop, there are THREE major criteria to be met.
1) QUALITY
2) TIME FRAME
3) FINAL COST vs ESTIMATE
Now by reading this thread about your car, and seeing other posts by AMCR I think I can answer the first two with some certainty, however I will speak for most people when I ask... Did AMCR stick to their estimated cost? With the extra work that YOU ask for, I can understand being charged extra, but did they ever raise the cost of the project or go over their famous "$25K MAX labour special" for reasons that they discovered?
...and a question for TIM....If you did indeed stick to your estimated price....Did you "make money" or lose your shirt...by that I mean taking the total amount charged divided by the total hours spent...are you making minimum wage?
...Again a question for Tim...has a project like this made you rethink your $25K deal OR or quite contrary did it reaffirm your offer?
Big thanks to Mike Scala for the review! We really enjoyed working on your car.
As I indicated originally, we are never going to get rich doing what we do for the prices we charge. We made enough money to live and that's all we ever try to do. We live and work in a country setting and our overhead is nothing compared to most other shops.
Yes, we stuck to our bid(s). We had a communications error on the redo of the bottom and we still stuck to our word. Mike, being the classy guy he is, gave us a nice gratuity over and above the amount of the price we charged him.
We take responsibility for taking longer to do the job on the points that are our responsibility and the owner has taken responsibility for the delays that were his. All in all, no harm, no foul.
Will we do more $25k max jobs? Yes, the shop is full of them. And I get new requests for bids often. I never finished the web site and never posted pictures so it's 100% from these postings and word of mouth.
I will say this though. We would much rather do the $18k max partial jobs like we did on Rich's RR vert. And, if you lived here Alan, it's all we would do. We would send you everything else.
Will we do work at these low prices forever? Heck no. We could probably raise them by $10k and still be just as busy just because people want a fixed bid.
I don't want to cause a debate here and I won't respond to any trash talk on Mike's thread. But, we know our capabilities. My partner Mike Snyder can replace metal and do body work better than any human I've ever known. He is the one who gets all of the credit for us being able to do work at fixed bids. It's not surprising to me that others are afraid to simply because they don't have the level of experience he does. In order to cover overhead, many shops have to work on several cars at once and therefore have one real journeyman body man or painter and several people with much less experience. All we have is Mike, Hubert is back part time and me for mechanical.
When we started this journey, we were referred to several experts for help. When it comes to welding, body and paint, some of the same experts now call Mike Snyder for advice. I won't mention names but I think you'd be surprised.
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 01/30/11 04:58 PM
Quote:
Great review for sure but the score card is incomplete.
When shopping for a body shop or restoration shop, there are THREE major criteria to be met.
1) QUALITY
2) TIME FRAME
3) FINAL COST vs ESTIMATE
Now by reading this thread about your car, and seeing other posts by AMCR I think I can answer the first two with some certainty, however I will speak for most people when I ask... Did AMCR stick to their estimated cost? With the extra work that YOU ask for, I can understand being charged extra, but did they ever raise the cost of the project or go over their famous "$25K MAX labour special" for reasons that they discovered?
...and a question for TIM....If you did indeed stick to your estimated price....Did you "make money" or lose your shirt...by that I mean taking the total amount charged divided by the total hours spent...are you making minimum wage?
...Again a question for Tim...has a project like this made you rethink your $25K deal OR or quite contrary did it reaffirm your offer?
Alan, your two cents during this thread has been like 25 cents. LOL. You are on everyones threads, LOL......
You bring up 3 criteria to be met for this project. All were met. Quality was met, Time frame would have been met. There were several delays on my end that held this thing up. In reality this probably would have been home in May of 2010. Keep in mind that there were some non resto imperfections that had to be fixed before coming home. These small issues would have been there with or without the redo of the bottom. As for price, they did stick to it. First off, my car was never one of their 25K jobs so even if we did hit the mark, it was for some non paint related issues which will be brought up in part 2 mechanical review which will be posted in about 2 weeks.
Posted By: anlauto
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 01/30/11 05:24 PM
Quote:
Alan, your two cents during this thread has been like 25 cents. LOL. You are on everyone's threads, LOL......
You bring up 3 criteria to be met for this project. All were met. Quality was met, Time frame would have been met. There were several delays on my end that held this thing up. In reality this probably would have been home in May of 2010. Keep in mind that there were some non resto imperfections that had to be fixed before coming home. These small issues would have been there with or without the redo of the bottom. As for price, they did stick to it. First off, my car was never one of their 25K jobs so even if we did hit the mark, it was for some non paint related issues which will be brought up in part 2 mechanical review which will be posted in about 2 weeks.
Is that a good thing or bad thing?
I think it seems that Tim and AMCR have more then proven themselves, and I wish them all the success in the world.
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 01/30/11 06:40 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Alan, your two cents during this thread has been like 25 cents. LOL. You are on everyone's threads, LOL......
You bring up 3 criteria to be met for this project. All were met. Quality was met, Time frame would have been met. There were several delays on my end that held this thing up. In reality this probably would have been home in May of 2010. Keep in mind that there were some non resto imperfections that had to be fixed before coming home. These small issues would have been there with or without the redo of the bottom. As for price, they did stick to it. First off, my car was never one of their 25K jobs so even if we did hit the mark, it was for some non paint related issues which will be brought up in part 2 mechanical review which will be posted in about 2 weeks.
Is that a good thing or bad thing?
I think it seems that Tim and AMCR have more then proven themselves, and I wish them all the success in the world.
It's very good thing Alan. I can't thank you enough for all of the help you gave us on this build. There were so many details you helped with that I lost count.
I don't know if you saw it or not but, in another posting, I wrote that you were my hero. I understand that you are on it full time now and I think that's great. But, at the time, you were putting in 8 hours a day at work and still pumping out quality restos at an unbelievable pace. You are like a restoration super hero!
(You don't happen to wear tights and a cape while you are working, do you?) 
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 01/30/11 08:40 PM
Quote:
(You don't happen to wear tights and a cape while you are working, do you?)
Posted By: 70runner
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 01/31/11 12:06 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Truth is - It is almost impossible to quote a price up front on a restoration. No one is 100% sure what lies ahead until they find all the trouble spots. I have seen many people (and friends) lose their ass sticking to quotes.
I borrowed this years ago from Roger Gibson's web site and it's written on my "policy" too..
• It is impossible to estimate the exact cost of a restoration at the beginning of a job. A general figure, a high and low, can be given based on previous similar jobs. If a written estimate is required, expect them to be high enough to cover any possibilities. Restorations are performed as economically as possible without compromising the finished quality.
Having done a couple restos, I'll readily acknowledge the surprises that can and often do surface, and the corresponding impact on work/cost elements. Having said that, I believe there is some plowable ground between an impossible and exact cost estimate, estimate being the operative word. Such an estimate would be based on a specified amount of work, with sufficient contingency detail to satisfy both restorer and customer.
Case in point: USCarTool advertises a body-in-white restoration for a set price. (Disclaimer: I don't work for them nor am I endorsing their service.) They specify the following (borrowed from their website):
Quote:
For $17,500 - We will completely refurbish your Mopar Unibody and return it to you in bare steel. All rust will be removed, all damaged panels replaced or repaired as needed. Send us your ugly, rusty damaged Mopar Unibody and you will receive back a bare steel, straight, refurbished Unibody. Your Mopar Unibody will be ready for final body and paint. All Mopar Unibody's are stripped to bare metal - all paint, rust, seam sealer etc. is 100% removed. Any panels that are rusted or dented beyond repair are replaced, unavailable panels are fabricated and repaired to better than OEM, all patches utilize fully butt welded seams. Rusted or pitted floors are replaced, rusted or damaged quarter panels are replaced, rusted trunk floors and extensions are replaced. Rusted frames are repaired (damaged or complete frame replacement, roof replacement or A-pillar replacement are extra cost items)
With the following disclaimer for deviations:
Quote:
Convertibles, roof replacement, frame damage or special circumstances (wing cars, fire damage etc.) will of course cost extra.
Admittedly "special circumstances" could cover a substantial area of deviations beyond typical panel repair/replacement. Assuming your mopar didn't contain special circumstances, their cost would represent an exact estimate. It would be interesting to know how many of their jobs come in at the specified cost.
ACMR is of course the other example, tailoring their exact labor estimate to mutually understood conditions of the car and final product requirements. In my case the contract specified what essentially was a body-in-white product with paint and minor reassembly.
From a customer perspective (mine only), the "high enough" element of the high-low estimate model in the Gibson quote often constituted a financial show stopper. A middle ground model could pose an estimate based on a mutually agreed specification of work, with cost contingencies based on (a) suspected deviations, (b) commonly encountered deviations, and/or (c) unanticipated deviations, all documented in a written estimate. Unanticipated deviations would of course remain indeterminate (until discovered) though could be addressed within the contract as a work-cost adjustment trigger. The Gibson quote alludes to (b) with the "previous similar jobs" language.
Posted By: anlauto
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 01/31/11 12:38 AM
Thanks Tim...I've been know to wear.....oh never mind...
I find it fairly easy to estimate a job on an E Body or something that I'm very familiar with...Lately I'm getting into B Bodies and have found, although quite similar, there's also a lot of differences...
Perfect example happened this afternoon...I just got a new customer with a 70 Super Bee. I've never owned or restored on before...We're in the early stages and he brought me some parts to restore today...Two of the pieces look really strange to me and I asked him where they go on the car, his response was
"I was hoping you could tell me"which means this one little example will take me extra research time (that's where Moparts comes in) just to figure out where and what they are....No big deal time wise, but it's extra time that's no usually charged...
Also I give a quote on what we first discuss, then always the project escalates during...and the price goes up and up..."guy says...why is the total $50K ...you told me $40K?"...then I say...remember you wanted to add that 6 pack to your 440 and that Shaker hood ?...Those things add up
Posted By: gtx6970
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 01/31/11 02:05 AM
To further deviate this thread from where it started but is seemingly being to be allowed to go.
I'll jump in here.
I'll admit I am intrigued by and would like to commened AMCR on this fixed price what ever you want to call it.
Also, Positive customer feedback is what we all strive for. And ultimately is the advertising we all need. Remember,,, Good news travels fast. But bad news travels at supersonic speeds.
So, Based on this positive customer feedback.
Would I use AMCR? Yes, but only after an in person visit.
Remember ,, one persons version of mint is just as easily another persons version of trash. So I for one refuse to give good or bad reviews based solely on pictures.
I have 3 cars in process right now. None of which requires any major exterior body and paint on my end.
I'll be the 1st to admit , I am first and foremost a mechanic. Although I can and will do some paint work in areas such as the undercarriage, trunk or engine compartments. (obviously with advise from someone more knowledgeable than myself in this area) But I insist any exterior body - paint work be done by someone more qualified to do so.
I have potentially 2 high profile cars in the wings and will be/am shopping for a competant body/paint facility thats capable of doing the work I demand.
Posted By: Scatransit
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 01/31/11 04:15 AM
Regarding Mopar-specific resto shops: Once you've restored a few Mopars, you know what rusts, you know how stuff comes apart & goes back together, you know who the best vendors are for a specific need, etc, etc, etc...
I applaud AMCR (and USCarTool) for finally "packaging" the process!
The only real issue then, becomes the quality of the work...
Posted By: 70runner
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 01/31/11 07:13 AM
Quote:
I find it fairly easy to estimate a job on an E Body or something that I'm very familiar with...
A good point. Familiarity with a body style/model, that is, knowing what to ask/look for, the likely contingencies, and such should add precision to the work/cost estimate. This was an element of my decision to select ACMR - Mike has substantial experience with B bodies (and others), plus at least one 70B derelict outside his workshop.
When I reflect on the canvassing I did for my resto, the mopar oriented shops were generally more precise with cost estimates compared to the multi-make shops. This is not meant to be critical of multi-make restoration shops, only to reinforce the value of familiarity in developing cost estimates.
Posted By: cloneguy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 02/01/11 04:22 PM
Hey! Be nice Rich.
That's my 70B out there and I think it's beautiful!
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 04/16/11 05:49 PM
If anyone is still left following this thread, hang in there. Very soon the Cuda will be started and i can finish the final part of my review for AMCR. I have spent countless hours on this car since it has been home redoing things and restoring components that were not addressed while the car was at the shop (pedal assy's, etc..). no blame to amcr on those components. they were not discussed in the resto. the dash came out again, steering column went through another resto. carb had to go to scott smith over at harms because Year Ones carb service sucks. the list is endless. a word of advice to all looking for a car. Buy one that is already done, LOL. No regrets, I knew this was going to be a big undertaking, I just hope it is going to be worth it in the end. STAY TUNED.
Posted By: Shoozy
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 04/16/11 06:51 PM
Also for anyone interested, check the thread on the General Forum as Tim is reported to be critically ill as of today and not expected to pull through.
to him and his family.
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 04/17/11 02:09 AM
Thanks for the heads up.
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 04/17/11 09:53 PM
Quote:
Very soon the Cuda will be started and i can finish the final part of my review for AMCR.
Kinda pointless and tacky now, let it be. imo
Posted By: AZ_A12_BEE
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 04/17/11 11:45 PM
I wonder what happens with all the cars/deals in progress?
Posted By: 70runner
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 04/17/11 11:53 PM
The way they allocated the work, Tim (RIP) was the front man and did engine stuff, Mike is the body/paint man. Since Mike isn't internet savvy, Tim handled that aspect. They had a third guy who helped intermittently. Last I spoke with Tim they were taking some cars from Brazil IIRC.
Posted By: Stewpar
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 04/18/11 02:59 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Very soon the Cuda will be started and i can finish the final part of my review for AMCR.
Kinda pointless and tacky now, let it be. imo
He posted that 8 hours prior to finding out about his condition......................
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 04/18/11 02:32 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Very soon the Cuda will be started and i can finish the final part of my review for AMCR.
Kinda pointless and tacky now, let it be. imo
He posted that 8 hours prior to finding out about his condition......................
I am sorry for posting. I didnt find about Tims condition until after I posted the thread. At this point, I am going to end any further review of AMCR's work since I dont know what the future will hold for the business. I will do my best to post updates every once in a while. To all that have followed this from day 1, thank you. It has been quite a journey.
Posted By: hotairballoonpilot
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 04/18/11 06:56 PM
Class act. Very respectful of you to do so. Maybe you can get it in the members rides survivors section section where you can keep it updated there.
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Very soon the Cuda will be started and i can finish the final part of my review for AMCR.
Kinda pointless and tacky now, let it be. imo
He posted that 8 hours prior to finding out about his condition......................
I am sorry for posting. I didnt find about Tims condition until after I posted the thread. At this point, I am going to end any further review of AMCR's work since I dont know what the future will hold for the business. I will do my best to post updates every once in a while. To all that have followed this from day 1, thank you. It has been quite a journey.
Posted By: 70plymA34
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 04/22/11 02:22 AM
This is going to be my last post on this thread. I am posting a pic of better times. This pic is appropriate to bring this thread to a close. This was taken in October of 2008, the day I went to see the car in person. I am holding the B7 test panel they shot for me to approve. The test panel was approved and the car was painted two days later.
Pictured L to R: Myself, TIM D (RIP), Hubert, Mike Snyder. I will continue uploading pics on projects/survivor thread.
THATS ALL FOLKS.
RIP Tim (1961-2011)
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: American Muscle Car Revolution Resto Job as Promised. - 04/22/11 02:35 AM
Quote:
This is going to be my last post on this thread. I am posting a pic of better times. This pic is appropriate to bring this thread to a close. This was taken in October of 2008, the day I went to see the car in person. I am holding the B7 test panel they shot for me to approve. The test panel was approved and the car was painted two days later.
Pictured L to R: Myself, TIM D (RIP), Hubert, Mike Snyder. I will continue uploading pics on projects/survivor thread.
THATS ALL FOLKS.
RIP Tim (1961-2011)
Off the topic, Happy Holidays to all!