? body in white program ?

I looked at their website recently and the price seemed to go from $15,000 to $17,500 for the body in white program. However, I still swear I saw a Moparts ad here showing $15,000. The website shows several cars with detailed pictures. Many look like basket cases when they arrived and look good leaving. You may want to call and find out more about it. However, like you, I was anxious to hear a few pros & cons from someone who actually went through the program.

The pictures of the Super Bee on their web site look great. Once the cars are in primer it's hard to see the repairs thats for sure. I couldn't find before shots of the same car.
Finding a shop that will tackle major metal is a chore in it's self.
Things that I would question is panel alignment. They make no mention of fitting the trunk lid, doors, fenders etc...All these things are affect by major panel replacement. (ask me how I know)

Their firm price in advance is curious as well??? They tell you $17500 up front....that most likely breaks down to about 250 hours at $70/hr or 300hrs at $58...

What happens if they're right into it but running out of time? do they rush to get it finished in their time frame...or sucker you in to paying more to finish your now half-finished car???

The cars I've had done by Keith Sim started out as a ball park figure and then the clock starts. It's amazing what you find once you start into it...rust hides everywhere

They've up'd their price after only do two or three cars...that tells you something right there

At 17,500, unless a car needs rails also it seems a bit steep to me. But then again I am used to the shop rate I have here in economicly challenged western New York.

Uni-bodies are a pain in the ( o ) to fix.

I've done a trunk floor and quarters on an E-body and fixed little spots around the hood hinges.

Lots and lots of manual labor gettin' old rusty crusty metal straight again.

I gotta tell ya, even at $17,500 it sounds like a bargain!

On the one hand I think the price is high then on the other it might be ok. Rust is a tough thing to deal with, but if the car was blasted or dipped, then all the panels replaced with new metal, you would think a competent crew who does it routinely could do it rather quickly and efficiently. But if you have to fab up stuff, that could take some time.

I think that it's marketing. There's no way they would of done a car like Alan's cuda for $17500 out the door. Before I buy my cars I have to have a rust free car. My Coronet R/T tough me that lesson early. Spend the money on the original rust free car not on panel replacement.

Lots of speculation and interesting thoughts, maybe I can clear up some and answer a few questions.

We (US Car Tool) are a Mopar Only resto shop and have been doing this for 5 years. Building race cars, fabricating rollbars, replacing unibody panels has taught us a thing or two about mopar metal and it is definitely our "sweet spot", as we say in our tag line, We Don't Scare Easy!!

The 69 Superbee in the advertisement picture is a full rotisserie restoration and it is pretty similiar to the Body in White, we just did the dismantling and the reassembly - there are plenty of pictures of this car (368 of them!), before during and after on our web site. Check this link for lots of detail http://www.uscartool.com/img/69bee/index.html

With the recent introduction of replacement sheetmetal, OEM floors, quarters, roofs etc. we recognized that we could now predict the costs of most of the major rust repair that is needed on a mopar unibody. In the past, we spent countless hours chasing used sheetmetal, sometimes having to repair the replacement parts before it could be used.

Now we can understand the costs (to a greater extent than ever before possible) and we have a lot of expertise in removing and replacing unibody parts and fabricating parts that can not be found. We routinely built frame rails from scratch, repaired cowls and firewalls and patched together floors from various parts.

So with an understanding of the costs involved, we introduced the US Car Tool "Body in White" program at $15,000. This introductory price was raised to its present $17,500 after 6 months and 6 cars in the program.

The breakdown on costs is roughly, $2000 to have the unibody dipped and stripped to bare metal, $7,000 - $8,000 worth of repair panels (some are still not available and have to be sourced used or fabricated from scratch) and the remaining $7,500 for labor to remove / replace the panels. At our shop rate of $75 per hour, this is just about 100 hours of labor, but we care more getting the unibody correct than we do about hitting a number. To separate out the really bad cars, we charge a bit extra for replacing frame rails or a roof. We do frame rails for $250 plus the cost of the part, roofs for $500 plus the part cost.

We (US Car Tool) had a 1970 Challenger R/T at Carlisle on one of our rotisseries. This was the very first car to go through the "body in white" program and is still another 30 hours or so from being finished - needs all the finish detailing underneath, some more welding at the trunk floor extension to quarter and the wheelhouse to quarter panel attachments and lots of small brackets still to be reattached.

All the work in our shop is done in bare metal and we keep cars in bare metal until they are finished. The 1970 Challenger R/T customer wanted his car in epoxy prime, so it is now in primer, but there is zero (none) filler in the car. Check the over 600 pictures of this car on our web site at http://www.uscartool.com/img/70ChallengerRT/index.html

I also saw a question about panel alignment. I don't want to sound mean or anything, but we just aren't that new at this (grin!). Check pages 69 and 70 on the '70 Challenger R/T BIW and you will see it with fenders, doors, decklid and even a rear glass windshield. All to verify panel alignment.

I suppose the net is, we believe in offering a great value to the Mopar community and have absolutely nothing to hide. Our process is fully documented with pictures and the end results. Have a look and let me know what you think.

As always, Moparts Rocks!! Thanks Tom!!

Wow, thats some nice work John. The #60 through #70 pictures really show some quality work.

John, Is the price the same no mater how many hrs it takes or is that a starting point? I have a 74 challenger that "looks" like it needs very little metalwork. I know looks is the key word but it's a CA car. Would the "body in white" program be only for a car needing a lot of work? Steve

We spent today removing most of the bad metal from a 1970 RT/ SE Challenger that is in the Body in White Program.

This one is not for the squeemish, and keep in mind that we have already replaced the front clip on this one!

For the entire set of 250+ pictures follow this link http://www.uscartool.com/img/70ChallengerRtSeRick/index.html

Why can't there be somebody in California that can do that sort of work. I tried looking once and got nowhere.

What kind of jig do you use to put it together?

Wow! I wouldn't hesitate to do business with anybody who can take a mopar down to THAT and bring it back to life.

Great work!

( still has a some rust where the door hinges bolt on. Mine had that problem too.)

Tav

GULP!

do u guys pick the cars up and drop them off when there done??? and about how long does it take????

John, great explanation. I don't doubt the expertise of you or your crew. My only issue is (not being a rich man) is finding a quality way to do what needs to be done, as easy on my pocket book as possible. I know some of these guys on here won't even blink at the price tag, but for me it is tough to swallow. I guess it is just another indication of how this hobby has grown. I swear stuff is like double what it was 10 years ago but at the same time, 10 years ago most people wouldn't touch half our stuff. I look forward to seeing your stuff at the Nationals (if your going to be there) Been thinking about looking at rotisseries also. But I'm still poor. lol

Where's that buried Cuda again ?

Nice work, John. I'd love to stop in and see your projects the next time I'm in Raleigh.

Steve

www.clarkclassic.com

I think this "body in white" thing is a fantastic program.... Too bad the Barrelcuda is done... would have been a great project to publicize the program and Alan coulda gotten a deal... would have been a great stunt for both parties...

Now if I could just find a cheap rusty Hemicuda...