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What is the correct/original carb for a 71 383 4spd

Posted By: lakerism

What is the correct/original carb for a 71 383 4spd - 07/31/09 11:18 PM

'N' code not 2bbl 'L' code, also what's the CFM and is it vacuum or a double pumper?
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms

Re: What is the correct/original carb for a 71 383 4spd - 07/31/09 11:41 PM

All were vacuum secondaries but you'll need to offer allot more info on the cars other options to nail down which one, there were several.
Posted By: lakerism

Re: What is the correct/original carb for a 71 383 4spd - 08/01/09 12:07 AM

Thanks for the reply, so they're all vac even the 4spd? The broadcast sheet says "48" for carb.
Posted By: 6bblgt

Re: What is the correct/original carb for a 71 383 4spd - 08/01/09 12:12 AM

yes, all vacuum secondaries, don't know of any double pumper single 4bbl MOPAR used carbs

48 is part# 3512 848

Holley model 4160 list number R4667A

383 4bbl 4-spd w/o N96 on B & E-bodies
Posted By: lakerism

Re: What is the correct/original carb for a 71 383 4spd - 08/01/09 12:17 AM

You rock 6bblgt! So what is the CFM for this carb and what would you recommend as a stock replacement (aftermarket)? Thanks
Posted By: m46rat

Re: What is the correct/original carb for a 71 383 4spd - 08/01/09 04:54 AM

That R4667 was either never built or all the manufactured ones, once built were all destroyed. They do not exist. The carb that you want is an R6191 which is a Holley 4bbl for a manual trans car, three speed or four speed. BTW there is no such carb for a 70 or 71 E Body with a manual trans and 2bbl. They were never offered or made for an E Body.
Posted By: cataclysm80

Re: What is the correct/original carb for a 71 383 4spd - 08/01/09 02:09 PM

I think I've got a lot to learn about carbs. Which options affect which carb you get? (engine/trans/fresh air what else?)

Tav
Posted By: lakerism

Re: What is the correct/original carb for a 71 383 4spd - 08/01/09 04:31 PM

Ok, so if I want to replace the missing original with an aftermarket Holley which one to use and what CFM? Thanks
Posted By: ademon

Re: What is the correct/original carb for a 71 383 4spd - 08/01/09 04:59 PM

600 cfm vacuum secondary, BTW i removed this off a 71 superbee N96 about 20 years ago, i'm sure it was original to the car

Attached picture 5390696-May09076.jpg
Posted By: ademon

Re: What is the correct/original carb for a 71 383 4spd - 08/01/09 05:04 PM

Forgot 383 4-speed No A/C 3.55 gear carb# 4749 engine was completely stock
Posted By: twodoorpost

Re: What is the correct/original carb for a 71 383 4spd - 08/01/09 05:20 PM

1971 FSM lists a Holley, R-6193A for a 383, manual transmission, with Fresh AIr.

Attached picture 5390726-6193.jpg
Posted By: 6bblgt

Re: What is the correct/original carb for a 71 383 4spd - 08/01/09 05:24 PM

Quote:

600 cfm vacuum secondary, BTW i removed this off a 71 superbee N96 about 20 years ago, i'm sure it was original to the car




& the list number is ???
Posted By: 6bblgt

Re: What is the correct/original carb for a 71 383 4spd - 08/01/09 05:29 PM

Here's a 4668 ('71 383 4bbl auto w/o N96)



Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms

Re: What is the correct/original carb for a 71 383 4spd - 08/01/09 05:46 PM

twodoorpost, what idle stop solenoid # is on that one?Nice looking carb, is it restored or NOS?
Posted By: ademon

Re: What is the correct/original carb for a 71 383 4spd - 08/01/09 05:47 PM

Quote:

Quote:

600 cfm vacuum secondary, BTW i removed this off a 71 superbee N96 about 20 years ago, i'm sure it was original to the car




& the list number is ???



# 4749
Posted By: m46rat

Re: What is the correct/original carb for a 71 383 4spd - 08/01/09 05:58 PM

ademon: If that carb were original to the four speed N96 equipped car, it would have solenoid and wiring included with it, that is standard equipment on all manual trans 383+4 carbs(as shown in the pictures of the 6193 carb). I would bet that the four digit date code stamped by the list number on the airhorn is not from the 1971 production year. Also, the airhorn is a different style than those used on 70 and 71 E and B body cars. 4749 cars were used on C Body cars.
Posted By: 6bblgt

Re: What is the correct/original carb for a 71 383 4spd - 08/01/09 06:26 PM

Quote:

....... 4749 cars were used on C Body cars.




not exactly .... it was a multiple year replacement carb (not factory installed)

R-4749AAS
- 4160
- 1967-70 Chrysler, 383 & 440 Eng.
- (W/REM. A.C.) & (MOD. C.)
- Emission A/M
Posted By: 72roadrunnergtx

Re: What is the correct/original carb for a 71 383 4spd - 08/01/09 06:29 PM

Pretty sure those 70-71’ 383HP 4160s with the 1 3/4” secondary throttle bores were rated at 650CFM and the 4404bbl 4160s (1 9/16” primary & secondary bores) came in rated just shy of 600cfm.

The 71’ FSM shows list numbers for with and without N96? Could someone post a pic of that 4160 specification page? Have heard the same thing about the 70’ carbs over the years, but nothing mentioned in the 70” FSM to that effect. If these N96 list numbered carbs exist, any one now what the physical differences are as compared to their non-N96 counterpart? Anybody have a picture of a N96 list numbered 4160 from 70’ or 71’?
Posted By: twodoorpost

Re: What is the correct/original carb for a 71 383 4spd - 08/01/09 06:39 PM

Scott,
It is a pic of an NOS carb that I sold a few years ago. I didn't record the idle stop numbers.
Posted By: ademon

Re: What is the correct/original carb for a 71 383 4spd - 08/01/09 06:46 PM

It could have been a replacement from factory, i don't remember a solenoid on it but that was a long time ago. This topic comes up a lot and i've had a few 71 chargers and bee's long ago and have never seen anything but the one i have posted a pic of, what was wrong with the original carb that the car left the factory with to make them just swap out to a #4749
Posted By: m46rat

Re: What is the correct/original carb for a 71 383 4spd - 08/01/09 07:38 PM

I think it needs to be pointed out that Chrysler back in the day was a carb. crazy company. As 6bblgt can attest, there were about 12 separate applications for Holley equipped E and B body cars in 1970. There are about six or more applications for 1971 E and B body 383+4 cars. They were made very specific for each individual application. Sooooo, to just decide on some cheap, replacement, generic carb. is really doing your car a great disservice. The right carb for the right application will always be the best choice for the performance that your car was designed for.
Posted By: ademon

Re: What is the correct/original carb for a 71 383 4spd - 08/01/09 10:23 PM

So is the 4749 carb ok for a resto since no one seems to have the originals, I can't give this carb away even for parts, i've had several guys with 71's ask about it but no one wants it, so i'm using it for parts.
Posted By: 70 buzz

Re: What is the correct/original carb for a 71 383 4spd - 08/02/09 01:13 AM

here is the original carb on my 70 super bee

Attached picture 5391509-carburetor003(3).jpg
Posted By: m46rat

Re: What is the correct/original carb for a 71 383 4spd - 08/02/09 01:43 AM

Quote:

here is the original carb on my 70 super bee



70 383+4 three or four speed carb. non air grabber. Your car has an SPD of either Nov. 69, Dec. 69 or Jan. 1970.
ademon, those carbs are hard to find but not anything close to impossible. I have two 6191 cars and also a 6193 and even some 70 383+4 N96 carbs. They are spares and available to cars needing orignal correct carbs.
Posted By: 70 buzz

Re: What is the correct/original carb for a 71 383 4spd - 08/02/09 03:52 PM

Quote:

Quote:

here is the original carb on my 70 super bee



70 383+4 three or four speed carb. non air grabber. Your car has an SPD of either Nov. 69, Dec. 69 or Jan. 1970. This car is a N-96 car there is a 36 in the carb box on the build sheet
Posted By: 72roadrunnergtx

Re: What is the correct/original carb for a 71 383 4spd - 08/02/09 04:19 PM

So for the 70’ 383HP manual trans 49-state car, the R-4367A would be correct for N96? What then is the 4160 list number for a non-fresh air equipped 383HP manual trans car?
Posted By: lakerism

Re: What is the correct/original carb for a 71 383 4spd - 08/02/09 05:32 PM

Ok this is getting confusing, so would a Holly 670 Street Avenger be a good choice for a slightly over stock 383 4spd?
Posted By: 6bblgt

Re: What is the correct/original carb for a 71 383 4spd - 08/02/09 06:01 PM

1970

383 manual - E & B-body - with ECS (N95)
orange HP engine 335hp
---------- Holley R4217-A ---------- part number 3418 537 on b'cast 37
383 manual - E & B-body - w/o ECS
orange HP engine 335hp engine on b'cast 084 with A/C & 087 w/o A/C
---------- Holley R4367-A ---------- part number 3418 536 on b'cast 36
383 manual - E & B-body - w/o ECS & with "fresh air" (N96).
orange HP engine 335hp
---------- Holley R4736-1A ---------- part number 3512 964 on b'cast 64
383 manual - E & B-body - with ECS (N95) & with "fresh air" (N96).
orange HP engine 335hp
---------- Holley R4738-1A ---------- part number 3512 974 on b'cast 74

383 automatic - E, C & B-body - w/o A/C & w/o ECS
blue engine 330hp
---------- Carter 4736S ---------- part number 3418 538 on b'cast 38
383 automatic - E, C & B-body - with A/C (H51) & w/o ECS
blue engine 330hp
---------- Carter 4732S ---------- part number 3418 540 on b'cast 40
383 automatic - E, C & B-body - with ECS (N95)
blue engine 330hp
---------- Carter 4734S ---------- part number 3418 541 on b'cast 41

383 automatic - E & B-body - w/o A/C & w/o ECS
orange HP engine 335hp engine on b'cast 088
---------- Holley R4368-A ---------- part number 3418 542 on b'cast 42
383 automatic - E & B-body - w/o A/C & with "fresh air" (N96).
orange HP engine 335hp engine on b'cast 088
---------- Holley R4737-1A ---------- part number 3512 965 on b'cast 65
383 automatic - E & B-body - with ECS (N95)
orange HP engine 335hp
---------- Holley R4218-A ---------- part number 3418 543 on b'cast 43
383 automatic - E & B-body - with A/C (H51) & w/o ECS
orange HP engine 335hp engine on b'cast 089
---------- Holley R4369-A ---------- part number 3418 562 on b'cast 62
383 automatic - E & B-body - with ECS (N95) & with "fresh air" (N96).
orange HP engine 335hp
---------- Holley R4739-1A ---------- part number 3512 975 on b'cast 75

1971

383 manual - E & B-body
orange HP engine
---------- Holley R4667A ---------- part number 3512 848 on b'cast 48
383 manual - E & B-body - with "fresh air" (N96).
orange HP engine
---------- Holley R4734A ---------- part number 3512 849 on b'cast 49

* some sources show the following manual trans carbs w/same part numbers

* 383 manual - E & B-body
* orange HP engine
* ---------- Holley R6191A ---------- part number 3512 848 on b'cast 48
* 383 manual - E & B-body - with "fresh air" (N96).
* orange HP engine
* ---------- Holley R6193A ---------- part number 3512 849 on b'cast 49

383 automatic - C-body
blue engine
---------- Carter 6125S ---------- part number 3512 844 on b'cast 44

383 automatic - E & B-body
orange HP engine
---------- Holley R4668A ---------- part number 3512 830 on b'cast 30
383 automatic - E & B-body - with "fresh air" (N96).
orange HP engine
---------- Holley R4735A ---------- part number 3512 842 on b'cast 42
Posted By: cataclysm80

Re: What is the correct/original carb for a 71 383 4spd - 08/02/09 06:03 PM

Thank You Dan, that's much easier to read!

Tav
Posted By: 6bblgt

Re: What is the correct/original carb for a 71 383 4spd - 08/02/09 06:06 PM

Quote:

Would a Holley 670 Street Avenger be a good choice for a slightly over stock 383 4spd?




Since this thread took a original/factory correct twist, try the above question over on the Q&A forum.
Posted By: 72roadrunnergtx

Re: What is the correct/original carb for a 71 383 4spd - 08/02/09 07:16 PM

Thanks for posting 6bblgt, can I ask what the source of this info is? Any idea why the 70’ list numbers R4736-1A, R4737-1A, R4738-1A, and R4739-1A shown are not in the 1970 FSM?
Posted By: lakerism

Re: What is the correct/original carb for a 71 383 4spd - 08/02/09 08:02 PM

Since this thread took a original/factory correct twist, try the above question over on the Q&A forum.




Well I started the post so I think this is a good place to ask, yes? no?
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms

Re: What is the correct/original carb for a 71 383 4spd - 08/02/09 08:31 PM

Well yes & no, you were asking what was correct/original for your car (and your question was answered), not what would work in the place of a correct carb.

Quote:

Ok this is getting confusing, so would a Holly 670 Street Avenger be a good choice for a slightly over stock 383 4spd?




The answer? Probably. Will it hook up and work in place of an original with no customized linkage etc.? Probably not, most take some small custom parts to work in place of a stock carb. Sure, the size is in the ball park for a "stockish" 383, but is it the best choice for your application? If anyone says yes to you they are either selling you something, assuming, or flat out guessing, there's no way to know without putting your engine on a dyno and comparing it to other carbs on YOUR specific engine under the same exact same controlled conditions.


Posted By: 72roadrunnergtx

Re: What is the correct/original carb for a 71 383 4spd - 08/02/09 08:51 PM

OP, with the thread titled as a question “What is the correct/original carb for a 71 383 4spd?” and placed in the “Moparts Restoration & A12 Forum” could it have taken any other direction. Reading back through your early posts, maybe you were looking for carb recommendations? Not so much original to your car?
Posted By: lakerism

Re: What is the correct/original carb for a 71 383 4spd - 08/02/09 08:56 PM

It's cool guys, I guess I was asking for both...what's original if obtainable and if not what's a good alternative. Great info, thanks guys
Posted By: 340cpe

Re: What is the correct/original carb for a 71 383 4spd - 08/04/09 02:52 AM

I have been going through the same thing with my car. 71 383 four speed Bee without fresh air. The number that is in the parts book just does not exsist at least I have never seen one or talked to anyone that has. Was even speaking with Bill Rolik who said he had several 6193A carbs years ago but has never laid eyes on a 4667A. So the correct carb as far as I am concerned is a 6191A. Now my original was missing, and am currently looking for one, but I put a Holley 6515 on the car which is supposed to be a replacement for the 6191A,4668A holleys. The carb bolted right up with no fabrication at all and it does seem to work extremely well but am still looking for the 6191A. Also I have the original distributor for the car and am going back to points. Is there a short wire that goes between the vac. advance and the solenoid? There has to be something as the wire on the solenoid and the wire on the advance have the same ends. If anyone had a picture of this I would appreciate it. Someone was looking for the solenoid part#here it is 3438777. Thanks
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms

Re: What is the correct/original carb for a 71 383 4spd - 12/12/09 03:44 AM

So,

Nobody here has ever seen a 4667 in the flesh?
Posted By: 440beep

Re: What is the correct/original carb for a 71 383 4spd - 12/12/09 02:32 PM

Quote:

I have been going through the same thing with my car. 71 383 four speed Bee without fresh air. The number that is in the parts book just does not exsist at least I have never seen one or talked to anyone that has. Was even speaking with Bill Rolik who said he had several 6193A carbs years ago but has never laid eyes on a 4667A. So the correct carb as far as I am concerned is a 6191A. Now my original was missing, and am currently looking for one, but I put a Holley 6515 on the car which is supposed to be a replacement for the 6191A,4668A holleys. The carb bolted right up with no fabrication at all and it does seem to work extremely well but am still looking for the 6191A. Also I have the original distributor for the car and am going back to points. Is there a short wire that goes between the vac. advance and the solenoid? There has to be something as the wire on the solenoid and the wire on the advance have the same ends. If anyone had a picture of this I would appreciate it. Someone was looking for the solenoid part#here it is 3438777. Thanks




ido have 71 383 2bbl one but the wire is a long one iwill post a pic for you
Posted By: flypaper

Re: What is the correct/original carb for a 71 383 4spd - 12/12/09 09:45 PM

Quote:

1970

383 manual - E & B-body - with ECS (N95)
orange HP engine 335hp
---------- Holley R4217-A ---------- part number 3418 537 on b'cast 37
383 manual - E & B-body - w/o ECS
orange HP engine 335hp engine on b'cast 084 with A/C & 087 w/o A/C
---------- Holley R4367-A ---------- part number 3418 536 on b'cast 36
383 manual - E & B-body - w/o ECS & with "fresh air" (N96).
orange HP engine 335hp
---------- Holley R4736-1A ---------- part number 3512 964 on b'cast 64
383 manual - E & B-body - with ECS (N95) & with "fresh air" (N96).
orange HP engine 335hp
---------- Holley R4738-1A ---------- part number 3512 974 on b'cast 74

383 automatic - E, C & B-body - w/o A/C & w/o ECS
blue engine 330hp
---------- Carter 4736S ---------- part number 3418 538 on b'cast 38
383 automatic - E, C & B-body - with A/C (H51) & w/o ECS
blue engine 330hp
---------- Carter 4732S ---------- part number 3418 540 on b'cast 40
383 automatic - E, C & B-body - with ECS (N95)
blue engine 330hp
---------- Carter 4734S ---------- part number 3418 541 on b'cast 41

383 automatic - E & B-body - w/o A/C & w/o ECS
orange HP engine 335hp engine on b'cast 088
---------- Holley R4368-A ---------- part number 3418 542 on b'cast 42
383 automatic - E & B-body - w/o A/C & with "fresh air" (N96).
orange HP engine 335hp engine on b'cast 088
---------- Holley R4737-1A ---------- part number 3512 965 on b'cast 65
383 automatic - E & B-body - with ECS (N95)
orange HP engine 335hp
---------- Holley R4218-A ---------- part number 3418 543 on b'cast 43
383 automatic - E & B-body - with A/C (H51) & w/o ECS
orange HP engine 335hp engine on b'cast 089
---------- Holley R4369-A ---------- part number 3418 562 on b'cast 62
383 automatic - E & B-body - with ECS (N95) & with "fresh air" (N96).
orange HP engine 335hp
---------- Holley R4739-1A ---------- part number 3512 975 on b'cast 75

1971

383 manual - E & B-body
orange HP engine
---------- Holley R4667A ---------- part number 3512 848 on b'cast 48
383 manual - E & B-body - with "fresh air" (N96).
orange HP engine
---------- Holley R4734A ---------- part number 3512 849 on b'cast 49

* some sources show the following manual trans carbs w/same part numbers

* 383 manual - E & B-body
* orange HP engine
* ---------- Holley R6191A ---------- part number 3512 848 on b'cast 48
* 383 manual - E & B-body - with "fresh air" (N96).
* orange HP engine
* ---------- Holley R6193A ---------- part number 3512 849 on b'cast 49

383 automatic - C-body
blue engine
---------- Carter 6125S ---------- part number 3512 844 on b'cast 44

383 automatic - E & B-body
orange HP engine
---------- Holley R4668A ---------- part number 3512 830 on b'cast 30
383 automatic - E & B-body - with "fresh air" (N96).
orange HP engine
---------- Holley R4735A ---------- part number 3512 842 on b'cast 42




this info should be moved
right into the tech section..
Posted By: Ronnman

Re: What is the correct/original carb for a 71 383 4spd - 12/13/09 04:10 PM

lakerism - To answer your question, yes you can use the 670 or 750 holley carburetors without any issues as long as they have vacuum operated secondaries. This is because the secondary butterfly plates will open as needed determined by engine speed and load. Also, you can purchase a tuning spring kit which has several different tension springs to vary the opening point of the secondaries diaphagm.
Ron
Posted By: ademon

Re: What is the correct/original carb for a 71 383 4spd - 12/13/09 06:26 PM

so where does the #4749 that i pulled off a couple 71 383 4- speed N96 cars come into play?

Attached picture 5665106-ebay(Small).jpg
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms

Re: What is the correct/original carb for a 71 383 4spd - 12/13/09 06:29 PM

ademon, what's the date code? My guess is that it will be after 1971 and likely 1973 or later. That is listed as a standard replacement carb for any 68-71 383/400 engine.
Posted By: ademon

Re: What is the correct/original carb for a 71 383 4spd - 12/13/09 06:34 PM

I forgot, i just sold it a few days ago.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms

Re: What is the correct/original carb for a 71 383 4spd - 12/16/09 10:40 PM

Well here it is, for those whom have never seen one, the "Bigfoot" of the carb world has finally surfaced, it's real, it exists. I seriously don't believe many, if any, ever got put on production cars, this may be a prototype or from a pilot car (notice the early date code) but it's now proven to be at least a possibility.

Attached picture 5671952-Carb1.JPG
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms

Re: What is the correct/original carb for a 71 383 4spd - 12/16/09 10:41 PM

Here's a few more shots

Attached picture 5671955-Carb2.JPG
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms

Re: What is the correct/original carb for a 71 383 4spd - 12/16/09 10:42 PM

3

Attached picture 5671956-Carb3.JPG
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms

Re: What is the correct/original carb for a 71 383 4spd - 12/16/09 10:42 PM

4

Attached picture 5671957-Carb4.JPG
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms

Re: What is the correct/original carb for a 71 383 4spd - 12/16/09 10:42 PM

5

Attached picture 5671959-Carb5.JPG
Posted By: ademon

Re: What is the correct/original carb for a 71 383 4spd - 12/17/09 06:18 AM

Scott, maybe its the 5 hours of sleep i get a night, but are the sec larger than the primary plates?
Posted By: big-block-dave

Re: What is the correct/original carb for a 71 383 4spd - 12/21/09 06:40 AM

My friend has a '71 Cuda 383, 4spd, non fresh air hood, with A/C. I've been looking for many years for the rite carb for him. It's been so long, i think it's supposed to be a 4667. So basically he should find something else?
Posted By: hemi68charger

Re: What is the correct/original carb for a 71 383 4spd - 12/21/09 01:42 PM

I have to go upstairs in my attic now.. I have a lot of those Holley OEM carbs.......

Nice thread...
Posted By: big-block-dave

Re: What is the correct/original carb for a 71 383 4spd - 12/21/09 07:59 PM

Ok, i just looked in my GG book that i marked for my friends carb. His build sheet has the "48" so it is the R4667 carb. Is it safe to say we should look for a R6191???? Is that the correct logical choice??......This "kid" (maybe 30ish yrs old) has had the car since he started driving! Loaded car and i mean loaded with options. Stuff like plum crazy, color key grill, A/C, 4spd. I forget all the rest but he had GG do window stickers for him and it took 2 sheets! I think the car was over $5k new? Thanks, Dave
Posted By: m46rat

Re: What is the correct/original carb for a 71 383 4spd - 12/21/09 08:43 PM

If the car has a super early production date, he might be able to scare up a 4667, if the car is not a super early car, then a 6191 is probably his only option, at least as far as originality is concerned. I think Scott has a couple of 6191's in stock, you should contact him and find out.
Posted By: 340cpe

Re: What is the correct/original carb for a 71 383 4spd - 10/06/10 04:12 AM

My car's production date is 8-7-70 should this car have been built with the R4667A carb or the service manual list number of R6191A. Thanks for any help.
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