Posted By: ubercuda
Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/11/08 01:42 AM
Anyone know for a fact what color the shaker bubble would be on a 70 cuda with B5 blue body color? Thanks.
Shaker Bubble Color?
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/11/08 01:47 AM
99.9% chance it was Argent Silver.
Posted By: ubercuda
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/11/08 01:55 AM
Thanks Scott.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/12/08 05:26 PM
............. just recieved a phone call concerning my post so I'll clearify my answer.
"Silver" was the term I chose as opposed to Black Organosol or body color which were the other possibilities, not the actual name or shade of the color which is another can of worms entirely.
*This is an NOS bubble, as you can see the color is darker than what most would call a true "Silver"
"Silver" was the term I chose as opposed to Black Organosol or body color which were the other possibilities, not the actual name or shade of the color which is another can of worms entirely.
*This is an NOS bubble, as you can see the color is darker than what most would call a true "Silver"
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/12/08 08:39 PM
Light Textured Argent. this is what it looks like "new" before it fades (ages) 
Posted By: Ludington1
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/12/08 09:37 PM
Scott, is that bubble really selling for that price? 
Darren
Darren
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/12/08 10:04 PM
Wouldn't surprise me, Chris Brown owns it, he has allot of very rare/nice NOS stuff on the market right now. As far as an original NOS bubbles value, I would say 2-3K would not surprise me, few realize how unique an original is compared to any reproduction example, it's easy to spot anything not original. Plus originals were very fragile and most cracked just from regular use, getting one repaired and painted (properly!) can be quite costly. If I had an Original big dollar E-body car I'd pay the bucks for one like Chris's, worth it in the long run.
Posted By: ECS
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/13/08 05:27 AM
Hi Scott,
You may already know this but there is a gentlemen in Canada that is selling perfect reproductions of these for $300-400. I have bought them through a 3rd party. They have the correct white composite makeup and all of the correct markings. They are also made in the original molds that "found" their way out of the manufacturing facility. This might be an accurate alternative to the NOS pieces that need some type of work done to them in order to look like new again.
You may already know this but there is a gentlemen in Canada that is selling perfect reproductions of these for $300-400. I have bought them through a 3rd party. They have the correct white composite makeup and all of the correct markings. They are also made in the original molds that "found" their way out of the manufacturing facility. This might be an accurate alternative to the NOS pieces that need some type of work done to them in order to look like new again.
Posted By: quick77rt
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/13/08 05:56 AM
If they are from the org molds wouldnt they be NORS???? or ???
Wouldnt ma chrysler have an issue with this considering even a repop part has to get there blessing and there cut????
Wouldnt ma chrysler have an issue with this considering even a repop part has to get there blessing and there cut????
Posted By: HEMICUDA
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/13/08 06:59 AM
Quote:
Light Textured Argent. this is what it looks like "new" before it fades (ages)
Is that an original or one you painted? So what you're saying is, over time, light argent darkens? That's interesting since the bubble on my one owner 3k mile 100% survivor shaker cuda looks darker like the one Scott shows and this car hadn't seen the light of day since 1972. Fact is my grille must had darkened at the exact same rate since it matches the bubble exactly.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/13/08 01:59 PM
Quote:
Hi Scott,
You may already know this but there is a gentlemen in Canada that is selling perfect reproductions of these for $300-400. I have bought them through a 3rd party. They have the correct white composite makeup and all of the correct markings. They are also made in the original molds that "found" their way out of the manufacturing facility. This might be an accurate alternative to the NOS pieces that need some type of work done to them in order to look like new again.
No Dave, I have not heard of those or seen them for sale. I would like to see one however, how does he handle getting them painted the correct color? Are you certain they are made of the same material as original? IMO that would be a tall order, I'm very familiar with the injection molding/RIM molding process, that would be quite a task even if you owned the original tooling and had access to the right size molding machine (large!) and could get small runs made. Does the guy openly sell them or do you need a secret password to contact him
On a side note I did buy one from a guy in Canada about 5 years back, he was selling it as "NOS" on ebay but it was not painted, just bare plastic. I found enough differences to think that it wasn't, or maybe that it was a rejected part that was never painted and sold to MOPAR and maybe stashed away by a production worker. The raw material type and color looked exact, however I noticed that it weighed slightly less than another original I had and when I placed it on a flat surface it would wobble as if it were slightly warped, no original I ever owned did that. I have allot of photos of it, I'll post a couple.
Posted By: mccannix
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/13/08 02:06 PM
Some bare ones surfaced a few years back from B.C and more recently from la belle Province claiming to be original.....neither were.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/13/08 02:20 PM
This is a series of pics of the bubble I described above. As I mentioned, it looked like the correct material, it looked old, and it looked original, but it differed enough to make me HIGHLY skeptical of it being a true NOS part. I returned it to the seller with no problems, now I wish I would have kept it as an example of something odd if nothing else.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/13/08 02:22 PM
2
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/13/08 02:22 PM
3
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/13/08 02:27 PM
4
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/13/08 02:28 PM
Ever see an original or NOS one with untrimmed mold flash?
Posted By: ECS
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/13/08 03:42 PM
Hi Scott,
I used one on my Hemi car. They are not the ones that you described that must have been on ebay. Keep in mind that there is nothing that cannot be made today especially if you have the original tooling. There is probably a better chance that things can be duplicated easier in the year 2008 than back in 1970. It has been 4 years since I have looked into this. I will see if they are still out there. Thank God for the ongoing development of technology!
I used one on my Hemi car. They are not the ones that you described that must have been on ebay. Keep in mind that there is nothing that cannot be made today especially if you have the original tooling. There is probably a better chance that things can be duplicated easier in the year 2008 than back in 1970. It has been 4 years since I have looked into this. I will see if they are still out there. Thank God for the ongoing development of technology!
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/13/08 03:47 PM
Quote:
Is that an original or one you painted? So what you're saying is, over time, light argent darkens? That's interesting since the bubble on my one owner 3k mile 100% survivor shaker cuda looks darker like the one Scott shows and this car hadn't seen the light of day since 1972. Fact is my grille must had darkened at the exact same rate since it matches the bubble exactly.
It is an original shaker off a 15K original car that i sprayed back in 1986 when i first found the 100% original NOS factory packed original formula. If your grille and shaker match and its a 70 car highly unlikely the grille and bezels match the shaker color!
post a pic Mike, cause something is wrong with that sceneraio as stated.
Grille and shaker colors are not the same. Dark-Dk/med Textured Argent and Light Textured argent are night and day Different.
If your grille matches that NOS bonnett Scott posted, your grille is WRONG!
Mike
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/13/08 04:32 PM
here is another sprayed at same time but shown in natural light (the one above is under lights for the dsiplay pictures).
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/13/08 04:36 PM
here is a pic of the light textured argent after aging, you can see the shade of gray it ages to
Posted By: HEMICUDA
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/13/08 04:42 PM
Quote:Quote:
Is that an original or one you painted? So what you're saying is, over time, light argent darkens? That's interesting since the bubble on my one owner 3k mile 100% survivor shaker cuda looks darker like the one Scott shows and this car hadn't seen the light of day since 1972. Fact is my grille must had darkened at the exact same rate since it matches the bubble exactly.
It is an original shaker off a 15K original car that i sprayed back in 1986 when i first found the 100% original NOS factory packed original formula. If your grille and shaker match and its a 70 car highly unlikely the grille and bezels match the shaker color!
post a pic Mike, cause something is wrong with that sceneraio as stated.
Grille and shaker colors are not the same. Dark-Dk/med Textured Argent and Light Textured argent are night and day Different.
If your grille matches that NOS bonnett Scott posted, your grille is WRONG!
Mike
Mike,
I've known this car for thirty years and it hasn't let the original owners garage since 1972 until it came to mine. It's a whole lot more likely that a 15k mile car had it's bubble painted than an absolutely untouched original with 3,900 miles one. Is it possible that you are right? Sure it is. Is it possible that my bubble is original? I'll bet on it. The problem is anyone that thinks they know the absolute when it comes to mopars is either naive or very foolish.
Mike
I'm not going to get into a pissing contest with anyone.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/13/08 04:48 PM
Quote:
This is a series of pics of the bubble I described above. As I mentioned, it looked like the correct material, it looked old, and it looked original, but it differed enough to make me HIGHLY skeptical of it being a true NOS part.
Scott, A unique point about this shaker is: it has the exact same curvature on the passenger side of the scoop opening divider that all original shakers have (it's flawed when compared to the D/S of the divider which has a better line).
M
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/13/08 04:57 PM
Quote:
Keep in mind that there is nothing that cannot be made today especially if you have the original tooling. There is probably a better chance that things can be duplicated easier in the year 2008 than back in 1970.
Yes Dave, technology has come a long way for sure, and having the original tooling would be the easiest way to get the part shape dead on, but the raw materials used 40 years ago are nothing like what's used today (todays are far superior in most ways) which is why getting a dead on match to the original material would be so difficult. Impossible no, but VERY challenging in this case. The other factor is run size. Just the set up to run that tool in the appropriate size molding machine would cost a ton, then running a short run (say for 1,000 or so parts) would be very expensive, and that's if you could get a custom injection molder to interupt normal production in order to set up the bubble tool for such a short run (some tools run for weeks or months, even years on end without being pulled from machines) anyway, I'm sure you get the picture. Not saying it would be impossible, just costly and very challenging to say the least.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/13/08 05:00 PM
Quote:
Scott, A unique point about this shaker is: it has the exact same curvature on the passenger side of the scoop opening divider that all original shakers have (it's flawed when compared to the D/S of the divider which has a better line).
M
I agree Mike, and that's why I commented that it MIGHT be an original production line "NOS" unit that was a reject or something, the molded shape is very accurate.
Posted By: mccannix
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/13/08 05:04 PM
As stated the dividers are flawed on originals as well as the one Scott had, but I have seen that on many of the repros also, since usually an original was used to pull a mold for any repros out there.
As for the tooling, I was told it was sent for scrap in 1982.
I visited Fram enough times from 1982-83 to believe this to be true.
I was even given the name of the salvage company in London, Ontario that received the molds.
After writing Chrylser in 1982 about saving it, I was sent a response on official letterhead, pretty blue/white stationary which I still have, stating they were not interested in the old car hobby at this time and invited me to try their new K-car.
As for the tooling, I was told it was sent for scrap in 1982.
I visited Fram enough times from 1982-83 to believe this to be true.
I was even given the name of the salvage company in London, Ontario that received the molds.
After writing Chrylser in 1982 about saving it, I was sent a response on official letterhead, pretty blue/white stationary which I still have, stating they were not interested in the old car hobby at this time and invited me to try their new K-car.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/13/08 05:11 PM
Quote:
Mike,
I've known this car for thirty years and it hasn't let the original owners garage since 1972 until it came to mine. It's a whole lot more likely that a 15k mile car had it's bubble painted than an absolutely untouched original with 3,900 miles one. Is it possible that you are right? Sure it is. Is it possible that my bubble is original? I'll bet on it. The problem is anyone that thinks they know the absolute when it comes to mopars is either naive or very foolish.
Mike
I'm not going to get into a pissing contest with anyone.
Mike, Thats fine, I dont know all there is to know about it, but i know enough about it that when i see it i can tell what's what.
I also am not interested in a pissing match. On the contrary, it is simply for documention and confirmation of that which you are stating..
when that 15k bonnet was restored, it had never been touched, and had been faded and feather down to bare bonnet, showing all 3 orignal layers of primer sealer and paint (red gray argent) as they all do.
Just a note: If you take another look at the pic of the NOS one Scott posted it appears you can see some of under colors bleeding thru.. now look at the pic of the grande coupe i posted see how it's bleeding thru too.
so all I am asking is to see a picture of the 3900 mile grille and shaker colors for documentaion/confirmation.
but on the "pissing" match side of it (if that's is what you want to call it), i will ask you this: since you sprayed your repro cuda griles with what appeared to be a correct shade and texture of argent and your 3900k mile grille is not closer to those in shade then it comes back to my questioning it being wrong.
If it is going to come to down it being believed that just because you say it is what it is, and we as collective (ie the readers) are to take it to be gospel simply because of who you are in the market VS who i am in the market then pictures will reveal that about who thinks they knows what about what.
its no different than when DW (ECS) debunks the "guru" mentality thought to be gospel elsewhere...
there will be controversy...
M
Posted By: MLR426
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/13/08 05:21 PM
Quote:
4
Scott the part numbers are very crisp and look original in your
photo, your right you should have held onto it. I bought one 3 years ago at the nationals
that was suppose to be made from the original mold and the guy is from canada. The part numbers and penastar on the one I bought were not as crisp but were very readiable and clear to make out.
I'll look at it again when I get home but I believe it was made of a light grey material.
I also have a repo from Gene Gregory and the 2 parts in many ways are totally different.
I do know where Gene has his done and it's not canada. What is the weight of original ? I can
get a weight on repop Gregory and repop canada.
Logan426
Posted By: cataclysm80
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/13/08 05:25 PM
Tav
Posted By: UCUDANT
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/13/08 05:33 PM
Quote:
This is a series of pics of the bubble I described above. As I mentioned, it looked like the correct material, it looked old, and it looked original, but it differed enough to make me HIGHLY skeptical of it being a true NOS part. I returned it to the seller with no problems, now I wish I would have kept it as an example of something odd if nothing else.
That looks like a good bubble, nothing weighs quite like the real deal.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/13/08 05:46 PM
Quote:
That looks like a good bubble, nothing weighs quite like the real deal.
Define "Good"? Usable, yes, original? MAYBE.... But keep in mind, it was lighter than the original I had on hand, enough that you didn't have to weigh them to tell, just holding them, one in each hand, it was apparent.
Logan, all original bubbles I've ever seen were the color of the one I posted in series, a light "bone" color / slightly off white yellowish color. If you had a grey one, you had a reproduction.
Posted By: ErikR
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/13/08 05:47 PM
Quote:
After writing Chrylser in 1982 about saving it, I was sent a response on official letterhead, pretty blue/white stationary which I still have, stating they were not interested in the old car hobby at this time and invited me to try their new K-car.
Obviously this is why some like me have such disdain for the company when they attempt to drag out the old nameplates, colors and decals. Remember even recently just prior to the Charger launch there were quotes attributed to T.Creed saying retro is dead. Yeah the new Challenger is cool, but not as much as the old iron. Rant off - sorry for the sidebar.
Posted By: MLR426
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/13/08 05:51 PM
Their is no doubt I know the one I bought was a
repo but it is of a much better quality than the
Gregory one in my opinion. I noted the color
because Dave mentioned the canadian maker and I
knew that was the one I bought.
Logan426
Posted By: HEMICUDA
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/13/08 05:58 PM
Quote:Quote:
Mike,
I've known this car for thirty years and it hasn't let the original owners garage since 1972 until it came to mine. It's a whole lot more likely that a 15k mile car had it's bubble painted than an absolutely untouched original with 3,900 miles one. Is it possible that you are right? Sure it is. Is it possible that my bubble is original? I'll bet on it. The problem is anyone that thinks they know the absolute when it comes to mopars is either naive or very foolish.
Mike
I'm not going to get into a pissing contest with anyone.
Mike, Thats fine, I dont know all there is to know about it, but i know enough about it that when i see it i can tell what's what.
I also am not interested in a pissing match. On the contrary, it is simply for documention and confirmation of that which you are stating..
when that 15k bonnet was restored, it had never been touched, and had been faded and feather down to bare bonnet, showing all 3 orignal layers of primer sealer and paint (red gray argent) as they all do.
Just a note: If you take another look at the pic of the NOS one Scott posted it appears you can see some of under colors bleeding thru.. now look at the pic of the grande coupe i posted see how it's bleeding thru too.
so all I am asking is to see a picture of the 3900 mile grille and shaker colors for documentaion/confirmation.
but on the "pissing" match side of it (if that's is what you want to call it), i will ask you this: since you sprayed your repro cuda griles with what appeared to be a correct shade and texture of argent and your 3900k mile grille is not closer to those in shade then it comes back to my questioning it being wrong.
If it is going to come to down it being believed that just because you say it is what it is, and we as collective (ie the readers) are to take it to be gospel simply because of who you are in the market VS who i am in the market then pictures will reveal that about who thinks they knows what about what.
its no different than when DW (ECS) debunks the "guru" mentality thought to be gospel elsewhere...
there will be controversy...
M
Here you go Mike. So what do the experts say?
Posted By: UCUDANT
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/13/08 05:59 PM
Good, as in looks like one I would use. Sometimes I wish I would have kept all that original Shaker stuff, except for maybe the hood.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/13/08 06:04 PM
Quote:
except for maybe the hood.
Yea, you did alright on that thing trust me! Want it back
Posted By: MLR426
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/13/08 06:06 PM
Quote:Quote:Quote:
Mike,
I've known this car for thirty years and it hasn't let the original owners garage since 1972 until it came to mine. It's a whole lot more likely that a 15k mile car had it's bubble painted than an absolutely untouched original with 3,900 miles one. Is it possible that you are right? Sure it is. Is it possible that my bubble is original? I'll bet on it. The problem is anyone that thinks they know the absolute when it comes to mopars is either naive or very foolish.
Mike
I'm not going to get into a pissing contest with anyone.
Mike, Thats fine, I dont know all there is to know about it, but i know enough about it that when i see it i can tell what's what.
I also am not interested in a pissing match. On the contrary, it is simply for documention and confirmation of that which you are stating..
when that 15k bonnet was restored, it had never been touched, and had been faded and feather down to bare bonnet, showing all 3 orignal layers of primer sealer and paint (red gray argent) as they all do.
Just a note: If you take another look at the pic of the NOS one Scott posted it appears you can see some of under colors bleeding thru.. now look at the pic of the grande coupe i posted see how it's bleeding thru too.
so all I am asking is to see a picture of the 3900 mile grille and shaker colors for documentaion/confirmation.
but on the "pissing" match side of it (if that's is what you want to call it), i will ask you this: since you sprayed your repro cuda griles with what appeared to be a correct shade and texture of argent and your 3900k mile grille is not closer to those in shade then it comes back to my questioning it being wrong.
If it is going to come to down it being believed that just because you say it is what it is, and we as collective (ie the readers) are to take it to be gospel simply because of who you are in the market VS who i am in the market then pictures will reveal that about who thinks they knows what about what.
its no different than when DW (ECS) debunks the "guru" mentality thought to be gospel elsewhere...
there will be controversy...
M
Here you go Mike. So what do the experts say?
Red is way off on 440-6 ?? Just joking.
logan426
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/13/08 08:08 PM
Mike, that is light textured argent... and is in much better shape than the NOS shaker picture shows.
If you have 3900 mile original rallye center caps (those two colors (shaker and centers) should match in pigment and texture.. IE Light Textured Argent Silver), now compare them to the grille...
so how about one of the 3.9K grille, which is what my statement was about... you stating the grille and shaker matched?
However, they are 2 different pigments (night VS day), (silver VS charcol/gray)...
This is Dk/med Textured Argent (original formula BTW)
If you have 3900 mile original rallye center caps (those two colors (shaker and centers) should match in pigment and texture.. IE Light Textured Argent Silver), now compare them to the grille...
so how about one of the 3.9K grille, which is what my statement was about... you stating the grille and shaker matched?
However, they are 2 different pigments (night VS day), (silver VS charcol/gray)...
This is Dk/med Textured Argent (original formula BTW)
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/13/08 08:14 PM
this is NOS Light Textured Argent from a 35+ year year old factory pack can (looks just like your shaker).
Posted By: HEMICUDA
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/13/08 08:49 PM
Quote:
Mike, that is light textured argent... and is in much better shape than the NOS shaker picture shows.
If you have 3900 mile original rallye center caps (those two colors (shaker and centers) should match in pigment and texture.. IE Light Textured Argent Silver), now compare them to the grille...
so how about one of the 3.9K grille, which is what my statement was about... you stating the grille and shaker matched?
However, they are 2 different pigments (night VS day), (silver VS charcol/gray)...
This is Dk/med Textured Argent (original formula BTW)
I wish I had the rallye wheels instead of the plain Jane 15" steel wheels, I think some guys call them the 450 wheel or something like that. At least all the original rubber looks showroom new.
Posted By: beepbeep
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/13/08 09:09 PM
Light and Medium textured argents.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/13/08 11:02 PM
Beepbeep, whats the sample from?
M
M
Posted By: beepbeep
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/14/08 02:56 AM
Mike,
Those are production line parts. Tail panel is 10/69. Center caps 12/69.
Those are production line parts. Tail panel is 10/69. Center caps 12/69.
Posted By: HEMICUDA
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/14/08 08:06 AM
Quote:
Mike,
Those are production line parts. Tail panel is 10/69. Center caps 12/69.
Mike,
I didn't mean to get you going, but, I can tell you the bubble argent absolutely is not light argent on my car and you can take it to the bank it's original. Is it dark argent? Probably not, my bet is on medium argent. Am I saying all bubbles were that shade and never was light argent? Nah, with how these cars were built back in the day anything goes.
Posted By: beepbeep
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/14/08 08:34 AM
Mike
There is no such thing as "Dark" argent, only Light and Medium. The sample I posted of the medium is probably a bad example as the color is actually considerably darker than the picture shows it to be.
Another shot of the same piece.
There is no such thing as "Dark" argent, only Light and Medium. The sample I posted of the medium is probably a bad example as the color is actually considerably darker than the picture shows it to be.
Another shot of the same piece.
Posted By: HEMICUDA
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/14/08 09:52 AM
Quote:
Mike
There is no such thing as "Dark" argent, only Light and Medium. The sample I posted of the medium is probably a bad example as the color is actually considerably darker than the picture shows it to be.
Another shot of the same piece.
Perfect!! Than we know that medium argent bubbles were done since it definately isn't light argent.
Posted By: beepbeep
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/14/08 02:27 PM
Mike,
I have to respecfully disagree, the bubble you posted is light argent.
I have to respecfully disagree, the bubble you posted is light argent.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/14/08 04:51 PM
Quote:
Mike
There is no such thing as "Dark" argent, only Light and Medium. The sample I posted of the medium is probably a bad example as the color is actually considerably darker than the picture shows it to be.
Another shot of the same piece.
Hello Joe, Actually in factory literature, the way the paint is described/listed is as follows:
Light Textured Argent Silver (pt number): A factory packed original formula, not a mix that one could get mixed up at the paint store.
and
Dark/ Med textured argent (pt number), an actual formula that was derived from one of many that were available as a variant of the base toner/ factory packed Lt Textured argent silver (BTW, none of the others were used by chrysler only these 2).
These colors (any of the textured paints) were the paint MFg's first line of custom finishes (i forget the line brand name at the moment).
So Back to mopar argent, The variances of the paints we see on NOS to production line parts are variants of:
the day of mix if Dk/med textured argent (ie year or batch), how they were sprayed (thinner evap, vs first spray of the mix, to last spray of the mix in the gun, etc). To the later sprayed NOS replacement parts, to succession of of a revision to the base toner (ie year of batch), or what is known as light textured argent, to a change in the size of metal used in the mix....
So, now that I know which part that sample swatch is from (i knew what the center cap was)... I understand it should be darker than what the picture shows and actually would be more like the headlight bezels of a NON R/T Challenger if a production line part.
The NOS Parts (the SE tail panel) varied so much from batch to batch it is not a good part to match if one was to use it for their base for doing an eye match reproduction as it would limt that repro to that version of spray technique, formula mix, etc. (i'll post a pic in bit of one that just came in that is "wrong").
Any way, back to the shaker color: Yes later NOS sprayed parts have been found to be DK/Med textured argent (these are what one restorer must have used to base his formula on as to what and how they should be sprayed so that has what has become to be "guru gospel").
Mike (hemicuda) you did not get me going, (maybe me emphasizing wrong with caps is misunderstood?), and i think if you were to coompare your two parts in discussion the night and day differences of the pigments would be clear providing the grille is original to the car (i am not question you about it, just the comparison of color and what you are seeing vs the shaker).... As you can see when joe overlayed the swatches on the shaker.
Mike
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/14/08 05:03 PM
this is also the color the cuda grilles.
Joe is that how much darker yours is in person?
Joe is that how much darker yours is in person?
Posted By: beepbeep
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/14/08 05:55 PM
Yes it is.
I am not doubting the nomenclature as you have way more experience with the paints than I do, I just have never seen the refernce to dark.
Not to get off subject, but the tail panels did vary, at least the ones I have seen from the 80's, same with the headlight bezels. They seem to be missing the metallic "pop" that the production line ones had. Same holds true for the blacks.
I am not doubting the nomenclature as you have way more experience with the paints than I do, I just have never seen the refernce to dark.
Not to get off subject, but the tail panels did vary, at least the ones I have seen from the 80's, same with the headlight bezels. They seem to be missing the metallic "pop" that the production line ones had. Same holds true for the blacks.
Posted By: mccannix
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/14/08 07:11 PM
Thanks to Mike for the acknowledging the factors that come into play on original argent shaker colors...day of mix, actual batch mix and how they were sprayed.
Shaker scoops, all manufactured in Toronto, Ontario, were, in 1969 sent to Fram bare, and were initially hand painted by one employee in a small booth.
I am by no means a painter and may have some of the terminology wrong as I'm going by memory here, but the following is an account of what that employee told me when when I first met him at Fram in Chatham, Ontario in 1982.
The initial scoops received were required to be painted Chrylers' FE5 automotive red enamel right on to the bare scoop.
Because of the composition of the scoop, the paint would not initially adhere to the scoop. The scoop would resist it.
Scoops were then washed with mineral spirits or vinegar first and paint was applied, sometimes working, sometimes not.
Red primer was used but the paint reacted terribly to it.
The grey primer ( perhaps sealer in reality) was added and the process seemed to work better.
There was a rush to get some red scoops painted for some "suits" from Detroit who had come up and were taking them back with them.
When they saw the first couple red ones, they did not want those.
They stated the orange peel by the nameplate was unacceptable, anywhere else on the scoop was OK but not around the nameplate area.
Several were finally accepted and they left with them assembled.
This would lead me to believe these were going on the first red cars for press release, etc. and the scoops had to have near perfect paint.
Fram was not a paint shop, they manufactured all the steel components for the shaker and assembled the complete system, but painting the initial scoops was thrust upon them for a period of time.
The argent ones, which my friend referred to as "electrolite silver" proved just as much trouble, clogging nozzles, uneven flow, etc.
An electric static process was tried whereby the scoops were grounded and shorted out so as to neutralize, similar to a powdercoat process, but the short would move the paint to where it wanted, in some cases it would fly back.
After more experimentation, they could usually get the argent to stick better to an already red painted scoop, which they would spray directly over. A few were done this way.
As production requirements for shaker assemblies increased, the paint process of all scoops was farmed out and they arrived at Fram painted argent, and later black, for final assembly.
I have yet to have it confirmed, but the vendor of 70 and 71 Cuda grills, North American Plastics in Wallaceburg, Ontario was possibly the vendor who painted the scoops as well and returned them to Fram.
They were 20 miles away and already using an argent for grills. NAP and the Fram facilities have been closed for decades.
So, some argent scoops having been painted by hand, some over top of red and some by a another facility may account for some different shades.
Shaker scoops, all manufactured in Toronto, Ontario, were, in 1969 sent to Fram bare, and were initially hand painted by one employee in a small booth.
I am by no means a painter and may have some of the terminology wrong as I'm going by memory here, but the following is an account of what that employee told me when when I first met him at Fram in Chatham, Ontario in 1982.
The initial scoops received were required to be painted Chrylers' FE5 automotive red enamel right on to the bare scoop.
Because of the composition of the scoop, the paint would not initially adhere to the scoop. The scoop would resist it.
Scoops were then washed with mineral spirits or vinegar first and paint was applied, sometimes working, sometimes not.
Red primer was used but the paint reacted terribly to it.
The grey primer ( perhaps sealer in reality) was added and the process seemed to work better.
There was a rush to get some red scoops painted for some "suits" from Detroit who had come up and were taking them back with them.
When they saw the first couple red ones, they did not want those.
They stated the orange peel by the nameplate was unacceptable, anywhere else on the scoop was OK but not around the nameplate area.
Several were finally accepted and they left with them assembled.
This would lead me to believe these were going on the first red cars for press release, etc. and the scoops had to have near perfect paint.
Fram was not a paint shop, they manufactured all the steel components for the shaker and assembled the complete system, but painting the initial scoops was thrust upon them for a period of time.
The argent ones, which my friend referred to as "electrolite silver" proved just as much trouble, clogging nozzles, uneven flow, etc.
An electric static process was tried whereby the scoops were grounded and shorted out so as to neutralize, similar to a powdercoat process, but the short would move the paint to where it wanted, in some cases it would fly back.
After more experimentation, they could usually get the argent to stick better to an already red painted scoop, which they would spray directly over. A few were done this way.
As production requirements for shaker assemblies increased, the paint process of all scoops was farmed out and they arrived at Fram painted argent, and later black, for final assembly.
I have yet to have it confirmed, but the vendor of 70 and 71 Cuda grills, North American Plastics in Wallaceburg, Ontario was possibly the vendor who painted the scoops as well and returned them to Fram.
They were 20 miles away and already using an argent for grills. NAP and the Fram facilities have been closed for decades.
So, some argent scoops having been painted by hand, some over top of red and some by a another facility may account for some different shades.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/14/08 09:10 PM
interesting read Terry.
From all the units i have restored (from NOS balck or argent, to nice used originals to not so nice used originals), It appears that whenever they finally got the paint to stck was after they went to a red oxide primer, with gray sealer, then color black or argent. The shades of red oxide and gray sealer did not vary between a black or argent colored part. I have never had the opp to see what was under an original red one.
Joe, yes all the mopar internal specs on blue prints, etc. reference the terms your last pic presented. It's when you get into the paint mfg system paint charts/ formulas and other literature the colors were called what i refer to them as.
When researching the paint codes chrysler provides on spec sheets, to the paint mfg codes and formulas, they come down to the 2 base formulas.
Maybe (and i am speculating), the term medium argent on a spec sheet was a spec to spray/mix it differently per application??
However, As mentioned previously i dont know all there is to know about it... as some info i have runs into dead ends that the paint mfg can't even explain.
But having the 2 main OE formulas i can match just about anything someone wants to throw at me after having experienced the variations and superceded toners over the years.
M
From all the units i have restored (from NOS balck or argent, to nice used originals to not so nice used originals), It appears that whenever they finally got the paint to stck was after they went to a red oxide primer, with gray sealer, then color black or argent. The shades of red oxide and gray sealer did not vary between a black or argent colored part. I have never had the opp to see what was under an original red one.
Joe, yes all the mopar internal specs on blue prints, etc. reference the terms your last pic presented. It's when you get into the paint mfg system paint charts/ formulas and other literature the colors were called what i refer to them as.
When researching the paint codes chrysler provides on spec sheets, to the paint mfg codes and formulas, they come down to the 2 base formulas.
Maybe (and i am speculating), the term medium argent on a spec sheet was a spec to spray/mix it differently per application??
However, As mentioned previously i dont know all there is to know about it... as some info i have runs into dead ends that the paint mfg can't even explain.
But having the 2 main OE formulas i can match just about anything someone wants to throw at me after having experienced the variations and superceded toners over the years.
M
Posted By: UCUDANT
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/15/08 02:43 PM
Quote:
Quote:
except for maybe the hood.
Yea, you did alright on that thing trust me! Want it back
Yeah sure
"My old man is a television repairman, he's got the ultimate set of tools...I can fix it"
Posted By: VCODE
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/15/08 04:18 PM
I would like to contribute some info but can't post the pictures,they are to big.Can someone make them smaller for me?
Thanks Bob
Thanks Bob
Posted By: VCODE
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/16/08 06:21 PM
Quote:
I would like to contribute some info but can't post the pictures,they are to big.Can someone make them smaller for me?
Thanks Bob
Mike,
thanks for resizing the pictures
Bob
I am just posting some pictures for all to see.
I don't know much about paint, but will leave that for the more experienced.
Hope this will help.The Bubble is off a 1970 340 Shaker cuda
Bob
Posted By: VCODE
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/16/08 06:22 PM
#2
Posted By: VCODE
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/16/08 06:23 PM
#3
Posted By: VCODE
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/16/08 06:24 PM
#4
Posted By: VCODE
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/16/08 06:26 PM
last one
Posted By: mccannix
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/16/08 07:06 PM
Thats a nice looking original scoop Mike, obviously a low mileage original.
Here's an NOS one, one from a batch of the darker shaded ones.
Here's an NOS one, one from a batch of the darker shaded ones.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/16/08 07:32 PM
Quote:
Thats a nice looking original scoop Mike, obviously a low mileage original.
Hi Terry, that scoop above is from Bob's car, i believe he said it was 15K original miles. Looks just like Mike Ross's even in the pics, Especially the "last One", and the one's I posted...
Notice how it is sprayed differently on the under side compared to the NOS one Scott posted...
That NOS one you just posted is definetely the DK/med Textured Argent... (same as use on the grilles).
Do you think that was sprayed by NAP or was someone else doing them by that time?
M
Posted By: mccannix
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/16/08 08:10 PM
Sorry I meant attribute to that scoop to Bob, got some names mixed there.
Mike, it would seem there were only two different facilities that came to paint these.
Fram first painted some, and then farmed the procedure to a vendor more capable of quality finished product.
NAP would seem the logical one because they were 1/2 hour away, and already set-up and using argent.
Problem is thats nearly 40 years ago and not many ex-employees around to get answers or who would even remember.
I may be missing something here but where is the picture Scott shows of the underside overspray.
Are his pictures not of a bare scoop before anything was done.
Mike, it would seem there were only two different facilities that came to paint these.
Fram first painted some, and then farmed the procedure to a vendor more capable of quality finished product.
NAP would seem the logical one because they were 1/2 hour away, and already set-up and using argent.
Problem is thats nearly 40 years ago and not many ex-employees around to get answers or who would even remember.
I may be missing something here but where is the picture Scott shows of the underside overspray.
Are his pictures not of a bare scoop before anything was done.
Posted By: moparo
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/16/08 08:19 PM
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh! thats a nice one
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/16/08 08:40 PM
Quote:
I may be missing something here but where is the picture Scott shows of the underside overspray.
Are his pictures not of a bare scoop before anything was done.
the one he posted of the NOS scoop (the very first one) was on ebay.
here is the underside.
Posted By: mccannix
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/16/08 10:15 PM
Thanks Mike....I've got a bunch of pictures of undersides, NOS and used, but they somehow grew and I need them downsized to post them...I used to know how..
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/16/08 10:24 PM
Terry and gang, FWIW. I restored an original red painted bubble last year, it has original paint when I recieved it. It was badly damaged and needed significant repairs so it wa stripped. It had only the red oxide primer under the red paint, no gray sealer. Sorry no pics.
Also not mentioned on this thread is the over spray patterns on the undersides. The methods used to primer/seal the bubbles involved hanging them on hooks bottom side to bottome side like a big clam, front of the scoops towards the ceiling.
Since the holes the hooks passed through were off center the two bubbles overlapped [Edited by Moparts - Keep it clean] eyed just a little and masked one another from overspray but not entirely due to the slightly [Edited by Moparts - Keep it clean] eyed offset. You can see this patern quite clearly on the upside down samples posted above. So, if you want to paint a bubbe to abslute OE perfection you'll need to simulate this process to get the over spray patterns right on the underside. Of course being painted at two different facilities likely varied the outcome, this prcess may not have been used at both but I'll bet it was used for the majority of them as every one I've seen other tha the red one looked that way.
*The NOS example shown above was painted differently than every production line unit I've seen, most likely primed and painted using a different process
Also not mentioned on this thread is the over spray patterns on the undersides. The methods used to primer/seal the bubbles involved hanging them on hooks bottom side to bottome side like a big clam, front of the scoops towards the ceiling.
Since the holes the hooks passed through were off center the two bubbles overlapped [Edited by Moparts - Keep it clean] eyed just a little and masked one another from overspray but not entirely due to the slightly [Edited by Moparts - Keep it clean] eyed offset. You can see this patern quite clearly on the upside down samples posted above. So, if you want to paint a bubbe to abslute OE perfection you'll need to simulate this process to get the over spray patterns right on the underside. Of course being painted at two different facilities likely varied the outcome, this prcess may not have been used at both but I'll bet it was used for the majority of them as every one I've seen other tha the red one looked that way.
*The NOS example shown above was painted differently than every production line unit I've seen, most likely primed and painted using a different process
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/16/08 10:38 PM
Quote:
The NOS example shown above was painted differently than every production line unit I've seen, most likely primed and painted using a different process
The one off Bobs' 15k is the only one i havever seen withat much lopsided red overspray, the way i have seen them is: it is fairly even and not as noticeable mid shaker...
Which hole/ or where was the hanging hook located on the NOS one posted above, and where was it on Bobs scoop?
M
Posted By: mccannix
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/16/08 10:53 PM
The scoops were hung from the mounting holes on the outer side of each drain hole opening, probably facing each other as mentioned.
That is where you see a gap in the primer/sealer
That is where you see a gap in the primer/sealer
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/16/08 11:08 PM
As Terry posted, here's a marked up example. The red lines point to the bolt holes, it appears that one or the other was used to hang the bubble, not both at once (guesswork, it might have varied). The blue arrows point to areas of over spray that indicate which part of the "masking" bubble was overlapping, the arrows point at "stenciled" areas which are the same shapes of the holes in the masking bubbles flange (gray ovals and such) the the drivers side bubble bolt boss being mostly red indicates a close connection of the two parts when the grey was sprayed keeping the flat surface free of gray sealer. The side which is pretty much clean is unusual as Mike pointed out, I guess that particular bubble overlap masked it off fairly well is all. The free hanging bubbles moved around a bit as they were primed so the red and gray coverage/over spray pattern usually varied a bit between them. I have more (clear) pics of this on other examples I can post if needed.
Posted By: mccannix
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/16/08 11:12 PM
I could be wrong Scott but it would appear both holes were used at once so as to keep the scoops balanced against each other.
Here is a shot of the other side of the same NOS scoop with the break indicating hanging location, thus one on each side of this one.
Here is a shot of the other side of the same NOS scoop with the break indicating hanging location, thus one on each side of this one.
Posted By: mccannix
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/16/08 11:29 PM
Regarding the red scoop Scott mentioned having only red oxide primer on it, here is a shot of the underside of one.
Only red oxide primer showing, no grey sealer.
This would in all probability be one of the first scoops.
Notice no break in the primer for hanging...done by hand in a booth perhaps?
Only red oxide primer showing, no grey sealer.
This would in all probability be one of the first scoops.
Notice no break in the primer for hanging...done by hand in a booth perhaps?
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/16/08 11:34 PM
Regarding the hooks Terry, I woudn't doubt it a bit, it's even more likely that it varied depending on the guy doing the work. I wouldn't be surprised to find that some were hung from the drain holes rather than the bolt holes as well, some of seen looked as if that were the case. Here's a pic of a red one (not the one I restored), it looks to have just gray sealer but hard to tell, I was told this is original paint but I can't confirm that.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/16/08 11:36 PM
This is a 71 production line piece (it was a black Organosol bubble in original paint). Looks like two hooks hung this one as well.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/16/08 11:39 PM
Another original production line 71 Black Organosol bubble
Posted By: mccannix
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/16/08 11:51 PM
Interesting pics Scott.
Regarding the underside of Chris' scoop, I have never seen an overspray pattern like that underneath one....looks like someone got trigger happy.
That one was in the trunk of E-body in Tennessee where it had been stored for years, and it had come from MI before that.
It may have been tweaked along the way.
Here's a picture of one that I mentioned earlier having been painted red at Fram initially and then argent over top.
Regarding the underside of Chris' scoop, I have never seen an overspray pattern like that underneath one....looks like someone got trigger happy.
That one was in the trunk of E-body in Tennessee where it had been stored for years, and it had come from MI before that.
It may have been tweaked along the way.
Here's a picture of one that I mentioned earlier having been painted red at Fram initially and then argent over top.
Posted By: mccannix
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/16/08 11:58 PM
closer shot of the red under the argent....This is untouched since 1973 when the shaker hood and complete assembly was purchased off a sassy grass 383 Cuda wreck in a yard in upstate NY....$175.00 for everything...those were the days
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/17/08 12:27 AM
Quote:
Regarding the underside of Chris' scoop, I have never seen an overspray pattern like that underneath one....looks like someone got trigger happy
check out the spray pattern of the NOS argent scoop bottom (CB's), to that of the OE red one Scott posted. Similar spray pattern location/saturation etc. Done by same guy?
Guess if i had to spray a 1000 of them a hanging system would be the way to go, but it sure looks like a lot of inconsistency from one to another. (yes i have never done one that way so guess mine arent "OE" correct, except in colors, The one on the left is an untouched NOS black scoop)).
One more thing to add to the issca (??) judging standards.
M
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/17/08 01:25 AM
Quote:
Guess if i had to spray a 1000 of them a hanging system would be the way to go, but it sure looks like a lot of inconsistency from one to another. (yes i have never done one that way so guess mine arent "OE" correct, except in colors, The one on the left is an untouched NOS black scoop)).
One more thing to add to the issca (??) judging standards.
M
I wasn't pointing fingers concerning your work meeting OE standards Mike, (hopefully you know I've always given your work high praises) just trying to get them to the next level which it appears to me there is a little room for.
As far as ICCA "standards" there are none really, it's an ever evolving set of guidlines which changes as new information is obtained and added. In the case of the details on the undersides of Shaker bubbles, yes, they are scrutinized by at least 2 judges and decisions about correctness are made.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/17/08 02:39 AM
Quote:
I wasn't pointing fingers concerning your work meeting OE standards Mike, (hopefully you know I've always given your work high praises) just trying to get them to the next level which it appears to me there is a little room for
Thx Scott i was dogging myself...
i agree there is a lot of "room" based on this knowlegde, but i doubt there is the room for the difference in price vs the time, etc...
now if I start seeing every OE judged shaker come my way... then it wouldnt be that hard to get "sloppier" with the red primer....
M
Posted By: ECS
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/17/08 06:37 AM
Quote:
they are scrutinized by at least 2 judges and decisions about correctness are made.
Excuse me for being a little off topic Scott but the above quote reminded me of a couple of instances that were expressed by two different customers of mine. Both guys (different shows and didn't know each other) had said that their voltage regulators were given deductions in the ICCA judging. These were two totally unrelated situations keep in mind. One gentleman said his regulator had been given a deduction because it was too nice and did not exhibit the "necessary raw" appearance of those that were factory or NOS.
The other gentleman said his regulator was given a deduction because it had some scuffs on it (his unit was completely NOS) and was not in good enough condition. I thought that was a contrary, no win situation in the world of judging. Either one could have been exemplary of a factory original! I only bring this up because ANY part that is judged can express or represent a range of different variations and still be correct. Don't you think (as evident in my example above ) that only acknowledging a narrow acceptance or view towards a multi faceted subject, will only take away from examples that could be 100% correct? And what about the participant who DOES have a correct version but the judges knowledge hasn't reached that level of correct awareness?
Posted By: VCODE
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/17/08 11:38 AM
Quote:Quote:
Thats a nice looking original scoop Mike, obviously a low mileage original.
Hi Terry, that scoop above is from Bob's car, i believe he said it was 15K original miles. Looks just like Mike Ross's even in the pics, Especially the "last One", and the one's I posted...
Notice how it is sprayed differently on the under side compared to the NOS one Scott posted...
That NOS one you just posted is definetely the DK/med Textured Argent... (same as use on the grilles).
Do you think that was sprayed by NAP or was someone else doing them by that time?
M
Low miles but 34000 and a 418 SPD
Bob
Posted By: 70440+6bbl
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/19/08 12:44 AM
OEM bubble from B05 SPD 'Cuda. Only red primer, no grey sealer
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/19/08 04:54 PM
Quote:
OEM bubble from B05 SPD 'Cuda. Only red primer, no grey sealer
Hello, what color is the topside (black, argent, red)?
M
Posted By: 70440+6bbl
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/20/08 04:27 AM
Quote:Quote:
OEM bubble from B05 SPD 'Cuda. Only red primer, no grey sealer
Hello, what color is the topside (black, argent, red)?
M
Hey Mike,
It is Argent.
Posted By: ragtop
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/22/08 04:50 AM
What 1970 E-bodys got the black bubble? Also what color Argent were the 1970 Cuda rocker moldings?
Posted By: beepbeep
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/22/08 06:24 AM
Mike
Black top
Black top
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/22/08 10:27 PM
Quote:
Mike
Black top
a lot more overspray (both red and sealer) than my NOS one shown above.
Does it have have the hook marks like Scott showed in his pics?
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/22/08 10:33 PM
Quote:
What 1970 E-bodys got the black bubble?
the only rule of thumb i know of is after May of 1970.
It would be interesting to know what the build dates are of the cars these black shakers posted were.
Quote:
Also what color Argent were the 1970 Cuda rocker moldings?
same as rallye wheels: Argent Silver (Non Textured). The textures cast into the parts.
M
Posted By: ubercuda
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/23/08 12:47 AM
As far as the rocker molding is concerned. I bought my 70 Cuda in 1977 and the rockers were painted a satin black. I don't claim that was the original color but when I had them off I couldn't find a spec of silver on them. Besides with a black vinyl top I think they look better black so I left them that color. Does anyone know for sure if all 70 Cuda rocker covers left the factory argent silver? Thanks.
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/25/08 04:59 PM
In the near future, look for this info and more FACTS on REAL mopar argent silver here: www.moparargentsilver.com
Mike
Mike
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 08/19/08 02:37 PM
Quote:
Excuse me for being a little off topic Scott but the above quote reminded me of a couple of instances that were expressed by two different customers of mine. Both guys (different shows and didn't know each other) had said that their voltage regulators were given deductions in the ICCA judging. These were two totally unrelated situations keep in mind. One gentleman said his regulator had been given a deduction because it was too nice and did not exhibit the "necessary raw" appearance of those that were factory or NOS.
The other gentleman said his regulator was given a deduction because it had some scuffs on it (his unit was completely NOS) and was not in good enough condition. I thought that was a contrary, no win situation in the world of judging. Either one could have been exemplary of a factory original! I only bring this up because ANY part that is judged can express or represent a range of different variations and still be correct. Don't you think (as evident in my example above ) that only acknowledging a narrow acceptance or view towards a multi faceted subject, will only take away from examples that could be 100% correct? And what about the participant who DOES have a correct version but the judges knowledge hasn't reached that level of correct awareness?
Hi Dave,
No problem (off topic). I'll first say that as with any judging body, the ICCA is not perfect, nor does it claim to be. It's an ever evolving "living document". That's why I said above that there is no "standard" set for judging a Shaker bubble, the information used in judging any componant can change as more knowledge is gained and added to the judging manuals over time. Then there is the human error element that can come into play, even with two judges errors are possible.
As far as your cited example (voltage regulators) I don't know the details on those examples so it's difficult to comment further on those. I understand and concur with your concern for consistant and accurate judging, there is and will likely always be an element of subjectivity, many times it's a true "judgement" call. Believe me, nobody is more interested in improving the system than the ICCA judging body, continual improvement is always the goal and we welcome any help or suggestions in that effort.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 08/19/08 02:52 PM
Somone posted a while back asking about stripping paint from a Shaker bubble. The question pertained to safely using paint stripper as opposed to sanding the paint off.
I'm posting a recent example of one I am in the middle of restoring for a customer. The bubble had original paint, a small older repair, and a thick layer of rattle can Argant over the top of the original paint. There are other ways to use chemicals to strip paint (dipping, etc.) but I like good old hand applied paint stripper for small parts, it's messy but allows you to scrutinize the various paint layers as they come off and gives you some "history" on the part. When dealing with composit parts I like to avoid using media blasting or sanding as it can alter the original surface texture.
Although I've used "Aircraft" paint stripper (for use on all metals, etc.) in the past with no problems this time I used a "Fiberglass Safe" high quality stripper purchased at a local paint supply (see pic). The bubbles are not made of fiberglass but this stripper is likely a better choice on a composit material.
As you can see, this example had the factory primer (red) and the factory sealer(gray) the silver argent paint bubbled and lifted pretty easily but the sealer was stubborn requiring multiple applications of stripper and allot of extra scrapping and scrubbing to remove it completely, the gray sealer was especially tough.
I always try to avoid sanding a bare bubble at all costs because if you hit the white base material it changes it's shape forever, it's delicate stuff. It's better to strip them, fix isolated repair areas, sand only as required in those areas, then put down a protective layer of base coat primer before doing any finish sanding work in preparation for paint.
I'm posting a recent example of one I am in the middle of restoring for a customer. The bubble had original paint, a small older repair, and a thick layer of rattle can Argant over the top of the original paint. There are other ways to use chemicals to strip paint (dipping, etc.) but I like good old hand applied paint stripper for small parts, it's messy but allows you to scrutinize the various paint layers as they come off and gives you some "history" on the part. When dealing with composit parts I like to avoid using media blasting or sanding as it can alter the original surface texture.
Although I've used "Aircraft" paint stripper (for use on all metals, etc.) in the past with no problems this time I used a "Fiberglass Safe" high quality stripper purchased at a local paint supply (see pic). The bubbles are not made of fiberglass but this stripper is likely a better choice on a composit material.
As you can see, this example had the factory primer (red) and the factory sealer(gray) the silver argent paint bubbled and lifted pretty easily but the sealer was stubborn requiring multiple applications of stripper and allot of extra scrapping and scrubbing to remove it completely, the gray sealer was especially tough.
I always try to avoid sanding a bare bubble at all costs because if you hit the white base material it changes it's shape forever, it's delicate stuff. It's better to strip them, fix isolated repair areas, sand only as required in those areas, then put down a protective layer of base coat primer before doing any finish sanding work in preparation for paint.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 08/19/08 02:55 PM
First pic, just after applying stripper to half of the bubble and letting it soften for about 15 minutes. I choose to do one half at a time because it gives you a "dry" area which helps when handling a part covered in paint stripper.
Stripping can be MESSY and dangerous, find an area far away from anything nice (like your cars, parts, etc.) and always use full coverage clothing and eye protection along with good gloves. No matter how careful you are some will always splash where you don't want it to, and it burns your skin VERY quickly, not fun!
Stripping can be MESSY and dangerous, find an area far away from anything nice (like your cars, parts, etc.) and always use full coverage clothing and eye protection along with good gloves. No matter how careful you are some will always splash where you don't want it to, and it burns your skin VERY quickly, not fun!
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 08/19/08 03:00 PM
After the first layer was mostly scraped off, another layer of stripper is applied
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 08/19/08 03:02 PM
BTW, I only use wood or plastic scrappers when removing paint from a bubble, no metal scrapers, they can easily gauge the material.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 08/19/08 03:03 PM
Then the final application of stripper and a hand scub to clean off the remaining primer and sealer
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 08/19/08 03:05 PM
Then a final rinse and you have a half stripped bubble with no sanding scratches or other damage from stripper, it looks factory fresh once stripped and dry.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 08/19/08 03:08 PM
And here it is after the other side was stripped.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 08/19/08 03:11 PM
The underside will be adressed next, this shows original paint with a small amount of new silver over spray.
Posted By: A57_RT
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 01/20/12 05:47 PM
I know this is an old post but this may very well be a FE5 bubble as refered to with full coverage red then a thick coat of org argent right on the red, the thickest argent ive ever seen.
If this is the case I wonder how many got it like this???
Ive several pics of the backside with crazy anounts of factory primer as well, I will post if anyone want to see the things.
It has the "all done at the same time" look to it.
Scott do you still strip them that way? I know times change and have wondered what others do, one of the first things I get asked is, you dont use any solvents do you, and I dont but honestly dont know if it makes a difference or not other then many many hours of hand sanding.
If this is the case I wonder how many got it like this???
Ive several pics of the backside with crazy anounts of factory primer as well, I will post if anyone want to see the things.
It has the "all done at the same time" look to it.
Scott do you still strip them that way? I know times change and have wondered what others do, one of the first things I get asked is, you dont use any solvents do you, and I dont but honestly dont know if it makes a difference or not other then many many hours of hand sanding.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 01/20/12 06:08 PM
Quote:
Scott do you still strip them that way? I know times change and have wondered what others do, one of the first things I get asked is, you dont use any solvents do you, and I dont but honestly dont know if it makes a difference or not other then many many hours of hand sanding.
I am not sure what to make of most of your multi point question? Yes I strip bubbles using paint stripper, it gets them perfectly clean and doesn't harm them one tiny bit. Sanding on the other hand can remove some of the original material and finer details (which is much like hard chalk) and that's why I don't sand them unless they are already wearing new primer to protect the substrate.
Posted By: A57_RT
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 01/20/12 06:34 PM
Dont read too far into it Scott, I just get asked not to use any solvents as much as id like to.
I myself to a point dont understand why, that was the point of the question.
I myself to a point dont understand why, that was the point of the question.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 01/20/12 06:39 PM
Anyone telling you not to use solvents is not familiar with the materials that the bubbles are made of.
Posted By: A57_RT
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 01/20/12 07:14 PM
The org primer comes off very easy by hand and leaves the QC, workers marks on them???? whatever they are its like a black sharpe was used on the very top its always been one of three different letters and a few have had marks on the side.
The markings get left on and primed over, as I dont think I could sand them off whatever type of marker was used it dont come off, if ever restored again the org markings will still be on the bubble.
Ive a couple of my own, and im gonna try some stripper to see how much time it cuts off the whole mess
The markings get left on and primed over, as I dont think I could sand them off whatever type of marker was used it dont come off, if ever restored again the org markings will still be on the bubble.
Ive a couple of my own, and im gonna try some stripper to see how much time it cuts off the whole mess
Posted By: 1cuda
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 02/08/12 03:10 PM
i`ve got some pics to add to this thread-firstly i would like to ask a question on the argent color. was it the same as the 70 cuda grille?
all the best
frank
all the best
frank
Posted By: 1cuda
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 02/08/12 03:14 PM
if you had to reproduce the back of a shaker then you actually need two to get the oversprays of the primers right. primered back to back as mentioned earlier. all the shakers i saw had red oxide with med/dark grey primer on them.
all the best
frank
.jpg "7060215-20120129002650(2).jpg")
all the best
frank
Posted By: 1cuda
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 02/08/12 03:18 PM
and another-yes these are not the same shaker.
Posted By: 1cuda
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 02/08/12 03:26 PM
scoop inserts were semi gloss black with made in canada stamped on the back-yes another.
all the best
frank.
all the best
frank.
Posted By: gtx6970
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 02/08/12 03:46 PM
Not sure if this is the right thread to post these.But there was thread a while back trying to determine bubble color in relation to ext body color with or without rubber bumpers
Either way - here goes.
This was a 1970 Cuda 440-6 4 speed car I looked at a LOOOOOONG time ago.( he wanted $4500 - I offered $3500 should tell you something)
FE5 Red, black vinyl top, black int no console. I want to say it had a rear rubber bumper but can't remember for 100% certian if it did or not.
I'll guarantee this car was 100% factory original paint.
And the best I can tell is the shaker is ever so slightly lighter in color than the grille.
But I could be wrong and it's just the angle of the sun making the grille look darker.
Either way I can't go back and ck, this car was sold many many years ago, and I have no idea where it ended up.
#1
Either way - here goes.
This was a 1970 Cuda 440-6 4 speed car I looked at a LOOOOOONG time ago.( he wanted $4500 - I offered $3500 should tell you something)
FE5 Red, black vinyl top, black int no console. I want to say it had a rear rubber bumper but can't remember for 100% certian if it did or not.
I'll guarantee this car was 100% factory original paint.
And the best I can tell is the shaker is ever so slightly lighter in color than the grille.
But I could be wrong and it's just the angle of the sun making the grille look darker.
Either way I can't go back and ck, this car was sold many many years ago, and I have no idea where it ended up.
#1
Posted By: gtx6970
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 02/08/12 04:23 PM
2
Posted By: PaddleOn
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 02/08/12 10:47 PM
Quote:
But I could be wrong and it's just the angle of the sun making the grille look darker.
You are not (wrong), and it (the sun), isnt!
M
Posted By: musclecarfinders
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 02/11/12 02:19 AM
So the shaker for this car wasn't red?
Posted By: 1cuda
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 02/11/12 02:48 AM
i have a 70 440-6 cuda in fe5 red built nov 15th and we also have a dec fe5 hemicuda here and i have tried to find out about red shakers on red cars and i beleive mine and the hemi were both argent as we have 8 shakers here and none of them have any signs of red on them. frank badalson once said to me very few fe5 cars had red shakers. we will be restoring both to argent.
all the best
frank.
all the best
frank.
Posted By: A57_RT
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 02/11/12 07:34 AM
i have a 70 440-6 cuda in fe5 red built nov 15th and we also have a dec fe5 hemicuda here and i have tried to find out about red shakers on red cars
I know of two org 440-6 Fe5-s with the org red bubbles, ive a pic of one of the cars tag and older pics of both, I will get the build dates...
The 3rd FE5 shaker in doing now I was told came off a challenger, dont know whats up with that but it appears to be one that was sent back and reshot argent, its about 3x the normal amount of paint on most oems and slopped on very well.
I know of two org 440-6 Fe5-s with the org red bubbles, ive a pic of one of the cars tag and older pics of both, I will get the build dates...
The 3rd FE5 shaker in doing now I was told came off a challenger, dont know whats up with that but it appears to be one that was sent back and reshot argent, its about 3x the normal amount of paint on most oems and slopped on very well.
Posted By: A57_RT
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 02/11/12 07:35 AM
Same bubble..
Posted By: A57_RT
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 02/11/12 07:38 AM
Soon to be NOS laq, not repop crap. Its funny the big dogs sell repop and keep the NOS org laq. for themselves.
![Attached picture 7065237-DSC00517[1].JPG](https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/upload2/7065237-DSC00517[1].JPG "7065237-DSC00517[1].JPG")
Posted By: gtx6970
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 02/11/12 04:06 PM
Quote:
So the shaker for this car wasn't red?
Nope
I remeber a thread where it was discussed a while back trying to correlate the red shaker - red car thing. But I don't remember the outcome.
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 02/11/12 04:52 PM
Right, if you REALLY want to duplicate every detail of a shaker bubble paint over spray you need 2 bubbles (or a mask that duplicates a second one). They were hung from some type of hook to be painted, they were hooked through one of the smaller forward bolt holes with with what appears to me wires or hooks and the front of the scoops facing the cieling. The two hanging together would have resembled a giant clam and the two would have been slightly askew due to the drain holes being off center. You can also see that the under spray was blown in past the longer drain tubes and the tubes themselves shielded thier own back sides from paint. You can also see that since these same tubes extend down they held the two bubbles appart in the front allowing more over spray than at the rear where the two bubbles flanges started to touch together. Some examples show more of the pattern than others so the process likely varied during production. Here are some marked up photos I took a few years back.
.jpg "7065624-PaintMaskBubble(2).jpg")
Posted By: faud88
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 02/11/12 04:57 PM
Where can I get the bast matching argent for my Shaker??
Paul
Paul
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 02/11/12 05:07 PM
As far as argent color goes, while various parts colors may have varied somewhat when compared side by side (grilles vs bubbles, etc.) there were only two factory colors of argent, light and dark. The bubbles were dark argent. There is no such thing as "medium" argent. Argent paint varied in shade, most likely becaue of variables in miixing by the various vendors who applied it. Fram painted the bubbles, another company painted the grilles, etc. There are litterally dozens of vendors selling and proclaiming thier argent to be "correct". The problem is that it all boils down to a judgement call as there is no true set standard to measure by. In my opinion the best off the shelf mail order paint match is the product Frank Badelson sells (sixpackfrank@aol.com). However there are people whom do not sell paint, but will paint your bubble with what remains of the factory NOS paint (or a blend of NOS and new paint) that they have stashed away. This mix will likely get you a bit closer to what I would call "factory correct" than any other option out there.
Posted By: A57_RT
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 02/11/12 11:06 PM
Scott, would you consider that pic the norm but not as "gospel"?
Ive got 3 here, one looks close, the other two really not even close with alot of red oxide overspray on the bottoms that does look the same/equal.
The FE5 im doing now that seems to of been one of the reshot in argent when new as well as my friends org FE5 Red thats still red shows the oxide primer shot from several diff directions, id question it but both the offenders have the same equal overspray patterns.
So would it be safe to say the pic you posted was the norm after a system got put into place?
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 02/11/12 11:24 PM
Ok....."The Norm"
At this stage of the game I'd say that no true "Norm" has been established, with so few surviving original paint examples to reference we simply do not have enough data (collectively) to know enough to assign one IMO. A lot depends on when your car was built, what color the car was (red etc.) and other production model year and time of year related variables.
What we do know is that the some of the early 1970 bubbles were first painted red, then at some point that changed to light argent and during that transition some already painted red bubbles were painted dark argent right over the red. After the color transition from red to dark argent was completed they seemed to be remain fairly consistent in the way they were painted (overspray patterns etc.) based on the larger number of these examples that I have seen.
I have noticed that some bubbles only had red primer and some had both grey and red primer (one is a sealer?) and this was probably another poorly documented process change that took place during production to cure a problem such as solvent or color bleed? Or it could have been as simple as a different person at Fram doing the painting and either had his own way of doing things or just flat screwed up?
Then for the 71 production the change was made to go from light argent to Organosol black. When this transition took place they must have had some leftover dark argent bubbles in stock and simply painted over the argent as I’ve seen a couple that were original this way. I have also seen original examples of Organosol bubbles with either both grey and red primer/sealer, and only red primer.
So what was the “Norm”? The norm was whatever your car had. If you don’t know which yours had I’d go to the next best guess which in the case of a mid to late year 1970 vehicle would have likely been a red & grey primer sealer covered in Dark Argent using the pattern my example has. Basically because that is the most commonly seen version (at least in my experience).
At this stage of the game I'd say that no true "Norm" has been established, with so few surviving original paint examples to reference we simply do not have enough data (collectively) to know enough to assign one IMO. A lot depends on when your car was built, what color the car was (red etc.) and other production model year and time of year related variables.
What we do know is that the some of the early 1970 bubbles were first painted red, then at some point that changed to light argent and during that transition some already painted red bubbles were painted dark argent right over the red. After the color transition from red to dark argent was completed they seemed to be remain fairly consistent in the way they were painted (overspray patterns etc.) based on the larger number of these examples that I have seen.
I have noticed that some bubbles only had red primer and some had both grey and red primer (one is a sealer?) and this was probably another poorly documented process change that took place during production to cure a problem such as solvent or color bleed? Or it could have been as simple as a different person at Fram doing the painting and either had his own way of doing things or just flat screwed up?
Then for the 71 production the change was made to go from light argent to Organosol black. When this transition took place they must have had some leftover dark argent bubbles in stock and simply painted over the argent as I’ve seen a couple that were original this way. I have also seen original examples of Organosol bubbles with either both grey and red primer/sealer, and only red primer.
So what was the “Norm”? The norm was whatever your car had. If you don’t know which yours had I’d go to the next best guess which in the case of a mid to late year 1970 vehicle would have likely been a red & grey primer sealer covered in Dark Argent using the pattern my example has. Basically because that is the most commonly seen version (at least in my experience).
Posted By: big-block-dave
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 02/13/12 08:20 AM
Red bubble.
Posted By: 1cuda
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 02/13/12 12:08 PM
just adding that there is another moparts member here with a challenger shaker registry and his own b5 blue 71 challenger was built with an argent shaker as he has pics dated back to early seventies. the build date on his challenger is may 10th 1971 and the build date of my 71 440-6 cuda is may 11th-my shaker was black. i also know of an argent shakered fe5 71 440-6 cuda and also frank badalson`s 71 hemicuda has an argent shaker-sorry don`t know the build date of that one.
all the best
frank
all the best
frank
Posted By: ScottSmith_Harms
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 02/13/12 03:05 PM
Yes there was some 70/71 argent/organosol crossover near the end of the 1970 model year. There is not ryme or reason to which cars got which, I believe it was simply a suppy issue, they used what they had one the shelf and there was no first in/first out inventory control so a silver one may have hidden on the shelf and used after the black production change had been made etc.
Posted By: Stewpar
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 02/19/12 08:54 PM
Started stripping my bubble today, thank god it's a labor of love! My bubble was painted black right over the original argent with two coats of primer inbetween. Half of it took me over three hours, pics later............. 
Posted By: Stewpar
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 02/20/12 12:22 AM
My fingers hurt, 4 1/2 hours plus clean-up and I am only half done.......... 
Posted By: Stewpar
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 03/11/12 01:11 AM
Stripped, Repaired and ready for primer...... 
Posted By: CHALLENGERN96
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 03/11/12 03:16 AM
Mine is a black bubble looked like semi gloss had car since it was bought in 71 dont remember it ever having that speckled paint on it it is a early 71 seq.1449 made for 71 challenger
Posted By: Stewpar
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 03/17/12 02:17 AM
Applied a plastic adhesion promoter along with a few coats of white high build primer. In eager anticipation of the NOS argent silver paint that is on it's way from the great white north....... Alaska!
Created an off white satin for the underside to best match the bubbles original color.....
Created an off white satin for the underside to best match the bubbles original color.....
Posted By: A57_RT
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 04/20/12 08:47 AM
You dont have to goto Alaska to get it...
![Attached picture 7172119-DSC08790[1].JPG](https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/upload2/7172119-DSC08790[1].JPG "7172119-DSC08790[1].JPG")
Posted By: A57_RT
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 04/20/12 08:52 AM
Why use white primer vs the norm?? Oem type color. Just a ? But Why paint the underside when it seems to have had a natural finish from the mold with just overspray from the painting.
Posted By: A57_RT
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 04/20/12 09:11 AM
Maybe one here might remember the car, in 1984 a fella named Kurt Bremer? in northern Indiana sold at the same time a 70 V code GTX and a 70 V code FE5 cuda, with red bubble.
He was asking 7500 for the GTX, 6500 for the cuda, my one friend bought the GTX, spun a rod bearing on way home.
My other friend bought the Cuda, in 84 it was freshly ???? restored if thats what you would call in then but it was when everyone was freaking over the NS1 term.
There was a secret to the cuda I never get let in on...vin tag was rived on with std rivs due to a dash change we were told, didnt know if it was a real v code 4 speed car or not, we found a u code 4 speed lime cuda for 600 bucks and robbed the Dana and trashed the rest.
The car was top notch, but the lack of the dana, driving lights, vin rivited on already in 84 has always made me wonder....and so why was the GTX priced 1k more???
The car was nice enough and I know the buyer after my friend was the long term keeper type....dam I wish I paid more attention back then.
He was asking 7500 for the GTX, 6500 for the cuda, my one friend bought the GTX, spun a rod bearing on way home.
My other friend bought the Cuda, in 84 it was freshly ???? restored if thats what you would call in then but it was when everyone was freaking over the NS1 term.
There was a secret to the cuda I never get let in on...vin tag was rived on with std rivs due to a dash change we were told, didnt know if it was a real v code 4 speed car or not, we found a u code 4 speed lime cuda for 600 bucks and robbed the Dana and trashed the rest.
The car was top notch, but the lack of the dana, driving lights, vin rivited on already in 84 has always made me wonder....and so why was the GTX priced 1k more???
The car was nice enough and I know the buyer after my friend was the long term keeper type....dam I wish I paid more attention back then.
Posted By: Stewpar
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 04/21/12 12:31 AM
Quote:
Why use white primer vs the norm?? Oem type color. Just a ? But Why paint the underside when it seems to have had a natural finish from the mold with just overspray from the painting.
If you look at the bubble prior to stripping, it was custom painted black with an air brush theme on it. They also painted the underside black as well, which created even more work for me unfortunately.
I emailed you a few months ago to see if you had any NOS left, but never got a return email?
Posted By: A57_RT
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 04/21/12 03:37 AM
That makes sense on the bottom, thanks for explaining wasnt being critical just courious...sorry about the email if I even seen it windows 7 blows imo.
People complained about $150 a pint which some current auto paints cost alot more so I offered a gallon up for $600 to a couple guys with no sale which was about 1/3 the asking price for the "last gallon on earth" a good while back on the bag so I said screw it.
I can do a few now and then as a hobby and really when I add up the actual time/labor im just as happy to use the paint on my own stuff.
The textured argent cut to black with organosol make an awsome blackout on any car as it shade shifts from silvers to blacks.
I did the whole blackout on my car with less then a pint before being reduced and it just freaks everyone out. Ive many gallons between the two, hell the inside of my trunk is NOS text argent...It makes exe rock guard paint on the lower rockers and such...
People complained about $150 a pint which some current auto paints cost alot more so I offered a gallon up for $600 to a couple guys with no sale which was about 1/3 the asking price for the "last gallon on earth" a good while back on the bag so I said screw it.
I can do a few now and then as a hobby and really when I add up the actual time/labor im just as happy to use the paint on my own stuff.
The textured argent cut to black with organosol make an awsome blackout on any car as it shade shifts from silvers to blacks.
I did the whole blackout on my car with less then a pint before being reduced and it just freaks everyone out. Ive many gallons between the two, hell the inside of my trunk is NOS text argent...It makes exe rock guard paint on the lower rockers and such...
Posted By: A57_RT
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 04/21/12 03:38 AM
Six Pack lids look nice too...
Posted By: Stewpar
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/03/12 05:38 PM
Ahhhhh, 41 yr old virgin Light Argent Silver. Not easy to work with, but turned out great.
Posted By: Stewpar
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/03/12 05:39 PM
These pictures were taken in very bright direct sunlight................
Posted By: slimert
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/05/12 02:52 PM
Very interesting thread! Don't have much to add but this cool picture.
I've had this early e-body ad framed for some time now. It's an ad showing a HemiCuda and a 440 sixpack Challenger with color keyed shakers.
"A HemiCuda and a 440 sixpack Challenger head into the marketplace, late but prepared"
I was told the color painted shakers caused glare so they changed to the argent. Maybe it was bacause of paint issues?
Mike
I've had this early e-body ad framed for some time now. It's an ad showing a HemiCuda and a 440 sixpack Challenger with color keyed shakers.
"A HemiCuda and a 440 sixpack Challenger head into the marketplace, late but prepared"
I was told the color painted shakers caused glare so they changed to the argent. Maybe it was bacause of paint issues?
Mike
Posted By: A57_RT
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/06/12 01:45 AM
Looks nice Stewpar, if I could pick your mind a bit but can you share how much paint you used and how much you reduced it and what type of gun and tip size.
Probably the camera but even when I shoot the light ext, the texture and flake in the sun is alot more a perdominate?
I really do like the light argent paint myself as in photos it shows more white to me and the flake blends in a bit more.
Ive a nice NON ebody grille in which I used light argent and it really photographs white with the flake looking crystal like.
Anyways looks great
I love the old paints, put me near base/clear and a hvlp gun and im lost.
Probably the camera but even when I shoot the light ext, the texture and flake in the sun is alot more a perdominate?
I really do like the light argent paint myself as in photos it shows more white to me and the flake blends in a bit more.
Ive a nice NON ebody grille in which I used light argent and it really photographs white with the flake looking crystal like.
Anyways looks great
I love the old paints, put me near base/clear and a hvlp gun and im lost.
Posted By: A57_RT
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/06/12 01:46 AM
One more....dark...I will dig out a light unit.
Posted By: Stewpar
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/08/12 03:46 AM
Quote:
Looks nice Stewpar, if I could pick your mind a bit but can you share how much paint you used and how much you reduced it and what type of gun and tip size.
Probably the camera but even when I shoot the light ext, the texture and flake in the sun is alot more a perdominate?
I really do like the light argent paint myself as in photos it shows more white to me and the flake blends in a bit more.
Ive a nice NON ebody grille in which I used light argent and it really photographs white with the flake looking crystal like.
Anyways looks great
I love the old paints, put me near base/clear and a hvlp gun and im lost.
Mark:
1 pint, 150%, 1.6mm tip! I can't seem to take a really good picture of it, the sun is always in an awkward position I guess?
Yours seem to be more "Vibrant" than mine for sure though..........
Posted By: A57_RT
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/08/12 01:08 PM
Thanks for explaining that Stew, and I agree 100% I can take 50 pics of the same bubble and they all 50 will look a bit different.
On top of Scotts many skills a good while back he schooled me a bit on some ways to photo them and other parts and how a camera is setup by default and what background to use.
Do I do it, no..have I forgot a word of it? no. One day I will take the time to do so though.
As I mentioned the lighter argent to me shows alot different then the dark in any light, and ive no doubts your bubble pops like crazy in the sunlight.
I ask Scott alot of questions, on here some might sound critical but there not and some carry over from old phone convos.
I do like to ask Scott certain questions as he is considered an "expert" by many and so like many in a skilled field, they get the harder questions tossed at them.
I asked how you sprayed your bubble for a reason and it wasnt to be critical, it was for myslef to try to learn more.
Here is what I have know and done with all high solids and esp the text argent and why. And this might apply to your bubble or here again it may not.
I shoot all the older high solids with a 2.3 tip with the better version of the HF siphon gun with the tip drilled out.
There 15$ gun looks very much like the high end guns back in the day and ive a pic of one for $169 that looks like a direct copy from the mid 70-s.
For me the text argent like the big tip, pull the trigger and it spits it out.
Here is what I have found is the result of using a 1.6 std tip vs a 2.3 and also depending on what part of the gallon I use, no matter how well shook the amount of flake seems never to be consistant if I break it down into pints so I feel some bubbles will get more flake then others.
Now to the tip...in a pinch I needed to spray one of my parts and my good gun was down at the shop so I fiured id run the out of the box 1.6 gun....the pic below is what was left in the pot after shooting the part, I dumped it on a shop rag and you can see what didnt get shot and more or less was pulled from the mix since it was not used.
My part turned out well but I was bothered to see what I didnt use on the 1.6 tip gun vs a 2.3. Both the pics are of what was left after I couldnt shoot no more and just rinsed the pot out with a lil laq. and let it dry.
Ive seen it posted written to reduce the 150% but some of the same ditzler paint seems thicker then others, Acme also made some of the text argent used and its so thick in the can its nuts and can be cut enough to shoot 4 bubbles from one pint.
But here in the pics shows my results on using a 1.6 tip vs a 2.3. or whats left over...
On top of Scotts many skills a good while back he schooled me a bit on some ways to photo them and other parts and how a camera is setup by default and what background to use.
Do I do it, no..have I forgot a word of it? no. One day I will take the time to do so though.
As I mentioned the lighter argent to me shows alot different then the dark in any light, and ive no doubts your bubble pops like crazy in the sunlight.
I ask Scott alot of questions, on here some might sound critical but there not and some carry over from old phone convos.
I do like to ask Scott certain questions as he is considered an "expert" by many and so like many in a skilled field, they get the harder questions tossed at them.
I asked how you sprayed your bubble for a reason and it wasnt to be critical, it was for myslef to try to learn more.
Here is what I have know and done with all high solids and esp the text argent and why. And this might apply to your bubble or here again it may not.
I shoot all the older high solids with a 2.3 tip with the better version of the HF siphon gun with the tip drilled out.
There 15$ gun looks very much like the high end guns back in the day and ive a pic of one for $169 that looks like a direct copy from the mid 70-s.
For me the text argent like the big tip, pull the trigger and it spits it out.
Here is what I have found is the result of using a 1.6 std tip vs a 2.3 and also depending on what part of the gallon I use, no matter how well shook the amount of flake seems never to be consistant if I break it down into pints so I feel some bubbles will get more flake then others.
Now to the tip...in a pinch I needed to spray one of my parts and my good gun was down at the shop so I fiured id run the out of the box 1.6 gun....the pic below is what was left in the pot after shooting the part, I dumped it on a shop rag and you can see what didnt get shot and more or less was pulled from the mix since it was not used.
My part turned out well but I was bothered to see what I didnt use on the 1.6 tip gun vs a 2.3. Both the pics are of what was left after I couldnt shoot no more and just rinsed the pot out with a lil laq. and let it dry.
Ive seen it posted written to reduce the 150% but some of the same ditzler paint seems thicker then others, Acme also made some of the text argent used and its so thick in the can its nuts and can be cut enough to shoot 4 bubbles from one pint.
But here in the pics shows my results on using a 1.6 tip vs a 2.3. or whats left over...
Posted By: A57_RT
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/08/12 01:09 PM
Here is what I end up with left with a 2.3 tip in the same gun...
Posted By: A57_RT
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/08/12 01:22 PM
So I think myself I left alot on the table with the 1.6 tip, but that was my trip with the smaller tip gun.
Your results could of been way different then mine or others.
As hard headed as I am, since this is the resto section, im more then open for corrections/opinions ect.
What I find cool about these bubbles is the fact that wne made they were just a cool option on a car, if the same person painted each one the same way more would be the same.
Maybe not word for word but Scott put it in good perspective for me long ago...in addition to whats been recently said, "correct is what came on your car" I think he said you could take 10 oem org bubbles painted at different times, different people, ect and all might show a hair different, but all are still correct.
No I dont swing on Scotts nuts, he will tell ya that, but he has helped me alot with some correct info and isnt afraid to tell it like it is.
I will probably catch some flack for this post
At the end of the day im just trying to learn what to do and what not to do for my own personal use.
Your results could of been way different then mine or others.
As hard headed as I am, since this is the resto section, im more then open for corrections/opinions ect.
What I find cool about these bubbles is the fact that wne made they were just a cool option on a car, if the same person painted each one the same way more would be the same.
Maybe not word for word but Scott put it in good perspective for me long ago...in addition to whats been recently said, "correct is what came on your car" I think he said you could take 10 oem org bubbles painted at different times, different people, ect and all might show a hair different, but all are still correct.
No I dont swing on Scotts nuts, he will tell ya that, but he has helped me alot with some correct info and isnt afraid to tell it like it is.
I will probably catch some flack for this post
At the end of the day im just trying to learn what to do and what not to do for my own personal use.
Posted By: Stewpar
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/09/12 03:00 PM
Quote:
So I think myself I left alot on the table with the 1.6 tip, but that was my trip with the smaller tip gun.
Your results could of been way different then mine or others.
As hard headed as I am, since this is the resto section, im more then open for corrections/opinions ect.
What I find cool about these bubbles is the fact that wne made they were just a cool option on a car, if the same person painted each one the same way more would be the same.
Maybe not word for word but Scott put it in good perspective for me long ago...in addition to whats been recently said, "correct is what came on your car" I think he said you could take 10 oem org bubbles painted at different times, different people, ect and all might show a hair different, but all are still correct.
No I dont swing on Scotts nuts, he will tell ya that, but he has helped me alot with some correct info and isnt afraid to tell it like it is.
I will probably catch some flack for this post
At the end of the day im just trying to learn what to do and what not to do for my own personal use.
I agree with you 100% Mark! If I went back at it with the larger tip, do you think I would be OK or would it lift?
Posted By: A57_RT
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/09/12 09:35 PM
Hmmm thats a tough question, I myself would not be afraid to fog one good equal coat on the dry side so it would flash really quick but my humidity level is 16% today.
I used to bone up alot on the paint nazi-s lit and others and some have said on the last coat, back up bit and fog it and for me it seems to work, as here again on the dry side all the flake and texture ends up on the bubble.
Some add a lil laq to the bottom of the pot and that works to from a foot and a half away...I made the mistake one time of trying to go at it strait on from the top and dropped one drop of laq dead center.....repaint.
If you feel this is in your scope of painting I dont see why not.
I myself have never had any pull and even have sprayed over a non laq base with super light dusting and letting it flash.
I think you might ask Scott as his use of the correct paints is extensive in most areas, as much as id like to say "Sure Stew, get it done" im not going to step out there.
I just got a bubble in to repaint, someone used Frank B,s repop paint but it seems they sprayed it wrong.
Now the crazy part is, for almost 5 years, in addition to the NOS paint ive had a mix that can all be had from your local paint store and id be happy to let one try it out, but the texture is more correct imo, and the flake I add is org ditzler.
Im on the fence about posting the mix munbers so alot of the do it yourselfers can take a stab at it.....the only thing is in bulk the componets? are costly so if you were not going to do volume Franks is cheaper (maybe, im not sure of the cost) but when at times I have trouble trying to remember which is NOS and which is repop. Ive got to loook really close to the texture. Two simple parts, bright silver and course met. in toner form mixed with x amount of clear and flake.
But back to the org paint, after im done I will let it sit a day, use a spray bottle with a drop of dish soap and a new paint brush and clean the bubble and hose it off, and at the same time use my hand, lighty to knock the edge off everything and the water washes any overspray off and poof im done.
I have not found a rag/cloth that will not leave part of the material on the bubble.
And on that note, ive one ugly unit Ive got to go start on.
I used to bone up alot on the paint nazi-s lit and others and some have said on the last coat, back up bit and fog it and for me it seems to work, as here again on the dry side all the flake and texture ends up on the bubble.
Some add a lil laq to the bottom of the pot and that works to from a foot and a half away...I made the mistake one time of trying to go at it strait on from the top and dropped one drop of laq dead center.....repaint.
If you feel this is in your scope of painting I dont see why not.
I myself have never had any pull and even have sprayed over a non laq base with super light dusting and letting it flash.
I think you might ask Scott as his use of the correct paints is extensive in most areas, as much as id like to say "Sure Stew, get it done" im not going to step out there.
I just got a bubble in to repaint, someone used Frank B,s repop paint but it seems they sprayed it wrong.
Now the crazy part is, for almost 5 years, in addition to the NOS paint ive had a mix that can all be had from your local paint store and id be happy to let one try it out, but the texture is more correct imo, and the flake I add is org ditzler.
Im on the fence about posting the mix munbers so alot of the do it yourselfers can take a stab at it.....the only thing is in bulk the componets? are costly so if you were not going to do volume Franks is cheaper (maybe, im not sure of the cost) but when at times I have trouble trying to remember which is NOS and which is repop. Ive got to loook really close to the texture. Two simple parts, bright silver and course met. in toner form mixed with x amount of clear and flake.
But back to the org paint, after im done I will let it sit a day, use a spray bottle with a drop of dish soap and a new paint brush and clean the bubble and hose it off, and at the same time use my hand, lighty to knock the edge off everything and the water washes any overspray off and poof im done.
I have not found a rag/cloth that will not leave part of the material on the bubble.
And on that note, ive one ugly unit Ive got to go start on.
Posted By: A57_RT
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 06/18/12 12:09 AM
Stewpar,
As ironic as it is, ive never had paint lift, I shot a bubble that was to be sent out sat, I found one thumb sized area when I was going to place the unit in its crate that I didnt like, so I thoguht....well that sucks, just mix a bit and give it one more nice top coat....FAIL.
Im not bothered ive got to sand off the one top coat, Im not bothered ive got to use a bit more paint, Im so so upset with myself that for some reason I jacked it.
I always spray on the dry side, I switcehd up due to 84 degrees and 16% humidity.
I suspect it might of been the primer sealer I used as thats the only thing ive changed up.
But in reality if it is due to the primer/sealer or? Im glad I caught it vs the owner of the unit.
I think I know what I did wrong, just dont want to admit it.
As ironic as it is, ive never had paint lift, I shot a bubble that was to be sent out sat, I found one thumb sized area when I was going to place the unit in its crate that I didnt like, so I thoguht....well that sucks, just mix a bit and give it one more nice top coat....FAIL.
Im not bothered ive got to sand off the one top coat, Im not bothered ive got to use a bit more paint, Im so so upset with myself that for some reason I jacked it.
I always spray on the dry side, I switcehd up due to 84 degrees and 16% humidity.
I suspect it might of been the primer sealer I used as thats the only thing ive changed up.
But in reality if it is due to the primer/sealer or? Im glad I caught it vs the owner of the unit.
I think I know what I did wrong, just dont want to admit it.
Posted By: JRepucci
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 07/19/13 08:14 PM
As far as I can tell this is an original cuda' FE5 red bubble. Whats strange is the lack of red and grey primer/sealer over spray on the inside.
Posted By: JRepucci
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 07/19/13 08:15 PM
2
Posted By: JRepucci
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 07/19/13 08:15 PM
3 minimal red oxide primer/sealer
Posted By: JRepucci
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 07/19/13 08:16 PM
4
Posted By: JRepucci
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 07/19/13 08:17 PM
5 grey primer
Posted By: kidmopar
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 07/19/13 08:55 PM
Jason , Looks original to me
Was probably originally "Organsol" ( silver )
My I had Scott Smith ( Harm's Auto ) do mine few years ago .... Looks AWESOME! 
Was probably originally "Organsol" ( silver )
My
I had Scott Smith ( Harm's Auto ) do mine few years ago .... Looks AWESOME!
Posted By: JRepucci
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 07/19/13 09:10 PM
Was probably originally "Organsol" ( silver )
Why do you say that? There is no argent anywhere!
Posted By: kidmopar
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 07/19/13 09:14 PM
Sorry 
'looked' like a bit of argent under the red?
'looked' like a bit of argent under the red?
Posted By: JRepucci
Re: Shaker Bubble Color? - 07/19/13 09:22 PM
Understandable... its smooth grey primer.
Compared to the FE5 red bubble shown with almost as much FE5 paint on the bottom as on the top... this one has almost none and very little primer; red or grey.
Compared to the FE5 red bubble shown with almost as much FE5 paint on the bottom as on the top... this one has almost none and very little primer; red or grey.