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66 Hemi block

Posted By: cudaman1969

66 Hemi block - 07/14/20 12:53 AM

If the block has no numbers stamped anywhere would it be considered a ‘warrenty’ block?
Posted By: SNK-EYZ

Re: 66 Hemi block - 07/14/20 05:56 AM

I'm no expert, but I thought that they didn't even stamp a VIN number in the block until the 68 model year.

They were still using 66 casting date blocks into 68, or at least that's what I've been told.

66 and 67 model year cars wouldn't have the VIN stamped into the block, just machining dates I believe.
Posted By: gtx6970

Re: 66 Hemi block - 07/14/20 11:11 AM

Just guessing here, but if there are no numbers on the top machined pad. Im thinking over the counter block . Or what some call a warranty block

And , Yes there are no VIN numbers stamped in till 1968 vehicles
Posted By: 6PakBee

Re: 66 Hemi block - 07/14/20 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by cudaman1969
If the block has no numbers stamped anywhere would it be considered a ‘warrenty’ block?


I agree with gtx6970, it's an over the counter or service block. All the warranty engines I've ever seen have been a minimum of a short block and have the warranty tag riveted over one of the casting plug holes. This is NOT a Hemi block but it would be similar,



Attached picture six pack tag.jpg
Posted By: Cuda340

Re: 66 Hemi block - 07/14/20 03:26 PM

Didn't they put numbers around where the bellhousing mates to the block on the topside in some cases?
Posted By: 6PakBee

Re: 66 Hemi block - 07/14/20 03:57 PM

Originally Posted by Cuda340
Didn't they put numbers around where the bellhousing mates to the block on the topside in some cases?


I believe you are referring to the early '68 VIN location.

Attached picture 5605835-68HemiVINstamp.jpg
Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: 66 Hemi block - 07/14/20 07:36 PM

Originally Posted by gtx6970
Just guessing here, but if there are no numbers on the top machined pad. Im thinking over the counter block . Or what some call a warranty block

And , Yes there are no VIN numbers stamped in till 1968 vehicles


Could someone have milled the top China rail and removed original numbers?

Unintentionally or intentionally?

I mean people do all kinds of crazy stuff to Hemi blocks.


Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: 66 Hemi block - 07/14/20 08:45 PM

This it ???

Attached picture ED0ED781-0838-4F8D-A2B6-192045536B10.jpeg
Posted By: 6PakBee

Re: 66 Hemi block - 07/14/20 09:41 PM

Originally Posted by autoxcuda
Could someone have milled the top China rail and removed original numbers?

Unintentionally or intentionally?

I mean people do all kinds of crazy stuff to Hemi blocks.



Possible. If it is a '66 casting and there is no VIN stamped on the top rear, then I would think had the engine been in a car it would had to have been either a '66 or '67. If so the pan rail should have the build date stamped on it. When the OP said there were no numbers "anywhere" I took this to mean the pain rail was not stamped also. But that is an assumption on my part.

Attached picture Hemi Build Date.JPG
Posted By: cudaman1969

Re: 66 Hemi block - 07/15/20 03:25 AM

After cleaning the pad found these. Where are those numbers on your block?

Attached picture image.jpg
Posted By: 6PakBee

Re: 66 Hemi block - 07/15/20 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by cudaman1969
After cleaning the pad found these. Where are those numbers on your block?


Pan rail "ear", rear, starter side. The "WT" is for water test, the "F", don't have a clue.
Posted By: cudaman1969

Re: 66 Hemi block - 07/15/20 02:23 PM

Thanks, only this. As you can see ear was broke off at one time, I’ll cut and weld back correct.

Attached picture image.jpg
Posted By: mattsmopars

Re: 66 Hemi block - 07/15/20 02:59 PM

The WT stamp on the top pad is more common on blocks used in cars after 1967. Blocks from 1966 year model cars were stamped BH 426 on the top pad, Blocks used in 67 year model cars stamped CH426. Beginning is 1968 the top pad was mostly only stamped with the WT and that seemed to continue through the end of production. That being said what is the casting date of the block? With no hemi blocks cast in 67. Some late 66 casting were used in early build 66 cars. From my knowledge the first run of new hemi casting would be 1-15-68 blocks so anything built before most likely got a 66 casting block.
Look on the rear of the bell housing flange as was mention for a 68 partial vin, it will be close to the oil pressure sending unit location. It could also be an over the counter block too, with no Julian date code stamp for the machining date. Any more pictures of the block would be great.
Matt
Posted By: cudaman1969

Re: 66 Hemi block - 07/15/20 04:41 PM

1/27/66 date on block. No numbers on the bell housing lip like my 68 block has. Went over the whole thing with a magnifying glass. I’ve had warranty blocks it has no rivet hole for the blue tag. So I’m guessing an over the counter block. Bad part it’ll have 2 sleeves and punched .060
Posted By: 6PakBee

Re: 66 Hemi block - 07/15/20 07:08 PM

Originally Posted by mattsmopars
The WT stamp on the top pad is more common on blocks used in cars after 1967.


I would question that.

Attached picture 1966 Hemi Top Pad.JPG
Attached picture 1967 Hemi Top Pad.JPG
Posted By: mattsmopars

Re: 66 Hemi block - 07/27/20 02:05 PM

I guess what I was really saying is the WT stamp by itself with no other stamping to show the year cars it was used. Both the blocks you show do have the WT but also have the BH426 and CH426 so 66 and a 67 block with the WT stamp. After those, the WT is all that is found on the top pad so nothing to specify the year car it was used in. Hopefully that better clarifies what I was saying.
Matt
Posted By: dragon slayer

Re: 66 Hemi block - 07/27/20 02:44 PM

That WT does not look original to me. There were plenty of 66 block over the counter for racing in that time frame. I also have seen several BH 426 block with WT stamps. Random placement on pad, not neat and in line like the picture. But who knows for sure.
Posted By: 6PakBee

Re: 66 Hemi block - 07/30/20 12:38 AM

Originally Posted by mattsmopars
I guess what I was really saying is the WT stamp by itself with no other stamping to show the year cars it was used. Both the blocks you show do have the WT but also have the BH426 and CH426 so 66 and a 67 block with the WT stamp. After those, the WT is all that is found on the top pad so nothing to specify the year car it was used in. Hopefully that better clarifies what I was saying.
Matt


up
Posted By: cudaman1969

Re: 66 Hemi block - 07/30/20 09:58 PM

Found the rivot that held the warranty tag

Attached picture 600CE9DA-C77E-4CE5-85CB-21B6F205C1B4.jpeg
Posted By: hemicar1971

Re: 66 Hemi block - 08/09/20 02:44 PM

On the bottom of the pan rail it is clean with no Machining Number or Assembly Number or year Identification Letter, i would be looking for the rivit or the rivit hole to see if it was a Warrenty Block. No Year Identification on the top pad also make one thing to look for the rivit or rivit hole.
Posted By: cudaman1969

Re: 66 Hemi block - 08/09/20 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by hemicar1971
On the bottom of the pan rail it is clean with no Machining Number or Assembly Number or year Identification Letter, i would be looking for the rivit or the rivit hole to see if it was a Warrenty Block. No Year Identification on the top pad also make one thing to look for the rivit or rivit hole.


In the picture above you see the rivet, a joy to find that. I just stuck a extra blue tag, I had laying around, there for reference.
A gentleman who worked at the St Louis plant claimed the factory recalled and replaced all the early bad main cap Hemi‘s poured in early 65 (August). My car has a shipping date of Jan 66 (before the new batch Hemi’s where built) so this engine would be a perfect fit. Can’t prove anything but makes me satisfied.
Posted By: hemicar1971

Re: 66 Hemi block - 08/10/20 03:43 AM

Never heard of bad blocks in any early Hemi. I have a casting date of 4-4-64 hemi block that went in to a 1965 B Body, and a BH 1966 Hemi block that is now in my Challenger. Never heard of any problems with the early motors, blocks and both these blocks have seen a vast amount of drag racing over the years.
Posted By: cudaman1969

Re: 66 Hemi block - 08/10/20 04:18 AM

It was in the Direct conection books, those first blocks had caps made wrong and where breaking under load. Parting line was on the side not on top.

Attached picture image.jpg
Posted By: cudaman1969

Re: 66 Hemi block - 08/10/20 04:22 AM

More, what the guy was talking about

Attached picture image.jpg
Posted By: hemicar1971

Re: 66 Hemi block - 08/10/20 10:09 AM

Reading the article I have never come across those Main caps but do remember some print on them now, I also have never come across a 1964 Hemi Balancer that was a thin balancer, not many 1964 Hemis out there I think 271 blocks were cast, have what Chrysler built for 1964 some place. Maybe a thin balancer for 1964 went on Nascar Hemis. 1965 motors have the thin balancer, All three of my 1971 installed production hemis do not have these main caps and all came with the stock thick balancer. You would think if Chrysler knew about these main caps in the blocks they would have a breaking point to when these caps were installed in the blocks that got these. But like everything else they only deal with a problem after it happens not before it happens and hope your warranty runs out but just how much warranty did you get on a Hemi Engine in a vehicle. I will dig that old yellow book out and read the complete section...
Posted By: A727Tflite

Re: 66 Hemi block - 08/10/20 12:42 PM

Never heard of a recall.

The Tech Tip was calling out that some early blocks had those caps but I personally have never seen any, and I have never seen a Hemi break a cap either., at least a normally aspirated one.
Posted By: cudaman1969

Re: 66 Hemi block - 08/10/20 03:55 PM

Originally Posted by hemicar1971
Reading the article I have never come across those Main caps but do remember some print on them now, I also have never come across a 1964 Hemi Balancer that was a thin balancer, not many 1964 Hemis out there I think 271 blocks were cast, have what Chrysler built for 1964 some place. Maybe a thin balancer for 1964 went on Nascar Hemis. 1965 motors have the thin balancer, All three of my 1971 installed production hemis do not have these main caps and all came with the stock thick balancer. You would think if Chrysler knew about these main caps in the blocks they would have a breaking point to when these caps were installed in the blocks that got these. But like everything else they only deal with a problem after it happens not before it happens and hope your warranty runs out but just how much warranty did you get on a Hemi Engine in a vehicle. I will dig that old yellow book out and read the complete section...

Warranty was 12 12, 4 speeds had more limitations. Everything else 5 50
Posted By: cudaman1969

Re: 66 Hemi block - 08/10/20 04:00 PM

Originally Posted by Transman
Never heard of a recall.

The Tech Tip was calling out that some early blocks had those caps but I personally have never seen any, and I have never seen a Hemi break a cap either., at least a normally aspirated one.

From what the guy said only the first batch of street Hemi blocks (aug 65) had the problem. Second upgraded batch was late Jan 66. You know Chrysler trying to save a buck
My 68 Charger RT Hemi block broke one either before or after 7-8 came out the side, #4 , street car
Posted By: hemicar1971

Re: 66 Hemi block - 08/10/20 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by Transman
Never heard of a recall.

The Tech Tip was calling out that some early blocks had those caps but I personally have never seen any, and I have never seen a Hemi break a cap either., at least a normally aspirated one.


I dug that book out my revision is 1976. I do not know who wrote any thing in this book because both the front and back covers are half torn off. The book is just a book to read. The book is basically what was done back in 1972-3-4. Time really has passed this book behind. There are a lot of things that are not true also. Here is an example of this I do not like, if you are going to race a Hemi I would toss the stock connecting rods away and buy after market. Next take all the valves and toss those beside the rods. You want to lighten everything that moves in a Hemi. This is just a start with this book it is a good History lesson but not all things are correct. I always wondered why my 2017 Chevy truck takes more oil in its oil pan than a stock Hemi Oil pan does. These Hemis with a stock oil pump can suck the stock pan dry and what happens booooooom out the side of the block thank Chrysler for not putting a bigger pan on these hemi, but I did 10 Quarts. I use an accumulator that if the pressure drops past a certain pressure it pumps quarts of oil from the can into the motor hopefully solving the problem till I can get it stopped. There are plenty on moparts that know and have raced Hemis and these are the guys you need to talk to. Some raced in the parts and other raced in the past and still do. The 1965 also had a blower on it and never heard anything like a main cap. Not huge HP for the day but still a lot of power. I would like to see one of those caps or at least a picture of one. Makes you wonder how many rolled out this way, and yes another posted is correct, Chrysler trying to save a penny on your hard earned money when you buy a car.
Posted By: 6PakBee

Re: 66 Hemi block - 08/11/20 01:51 AM

Quoting from page 420 of the "Direct Connection Performance Book", "In the early production days of the street hemi, some cast iron caps were used, but these caps will break in today's highly stressed applications and should be thrown away. They can be identified by a parting line on each side of the cap. See Figure 1."
Posted By: A727Tflite

Re: 66 Hemi block - 08/11/20 02:44 AM

Originally Posted by hemicar1971
Originally Posted by Transman
Never heard of a recall.

The Tech Tip was calling out that some early blocks had those caps but I personally have never seen any, and I have never seen a Hemi break a cap either., at least a normally aspirated one.


I dug that book out my revision is 1976. I do not know who wrote any thing in this book because both the front and back covers are half torn off. The book is just a book to read. The book is basically what was done back in 1972-3-4. Time really has passed this book behind. There are a lot of things that are not true also. Here is an example of this I do not like, if you are going to race a Hemi I would toss the stock connecting rods away and buy after market. Next take all the valves and toss those beside the rods. You want to lighten everything that moves in a Hemi. This is just a start with this book it is a good History lesson but not all things are correct. I always wondered why my 2017 Chevy truck takes more oil in its oil pan than a stock Hemi Oil pan does. These Hemis with a stock oil pump can suck the stock pan dry and what happens booooooom out the side of the block thank Chrysler for not putting a bigger pan on these hemi, but I did 10 Quarts. I use an accumulator that if the pressure drops past a certain pressure it pumps quarts of oil from the can into the motor hopefully solving the problem till I can get it stopped. There are plenty on moparts that know and have raced Hemis and these are the guys you need to talk to. Some raced in the parts and other raced in the past and still do. The 1965 also had a blower on it and never heard anything like a main cap. Not huge HP for the day but still a lot of power. I would like to see one of those caps or at least a picture of one. Makes you wonder how many rolled out this way, and yes another posted is correct, Chrysler trying to save a penny on your hard earned money when you buy a car.

Larry Shepard from Direct Connection collected the info from all the engineers and complied the Tech Tips and eventually the “Bible”.

He made publishing errors like every one else - some were corrected and some not.

As for the caps, one would wonder if the first Hemis had good caps, then in an effort to reduce expense it was decided to use cheaper material or maybe a change in casting tooling was made then eventually corrected.

No way would a plain cast iron cap live in NASCAR racing.









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