Moparts

A12 Idle solenoid TROUBLESHOOTING problem UPDATE!

Posted By: Anonymous

A12 Idle solenoid TROUBLESHOOTING problem UPDATE! - 03/15/09 08:40 PM

i need help resolving a electrical issue that just happened. i saw that my idle solenoid wasnt popping up when the key was in the on position so i pulled the blue solenoid wire and it grounded up against up the barrel and lost power to the wire, the problem is now i go and try to stsrt the superbee and it fires immediately then cuts out.
i thought i might have fried the ballast resistor but i put a jumper wire on the ballast resistor and it does the same thing.
the only way for me to keep the car running is a wire from the positive side of vthe coil to the positive side of the battery then i pull the wire off the battery and it stalls.
Im lost. what id wrong?
i think something is either fried or shorted out? i shorted out the blue solenoid wire briefly 4 or 5 times trying to get the stud of the solonoid back into the barrel, it popped out. pleae help thanks

Attached picture 5094918-115-1527_IMG.JPG
Posted By: Snoopy

Re: A12 Idle solenoid TROUBLESHOOTING problem - 03/15/09 08:51 PM

Check your fuses.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: A12 Idle solenoid TROUBLESHOOTING problem - 03/15/09 08:55 PM

Quote:

Check your fuses.



fuses are all good, i checked.
my question is where does the end of the idle solenoid blue wire go to? i think its shorting out the coil somehow.
Posted By: 1_WILD_RT

Re: A12 Idle solenoid TROUBLESHOOTING problem - 03/15/09 09:20 PM

Follow that wire back to it's source. by grounding it you burnt something, fuse, fusiable link..Something..The solinoid doesn't open the throttle when emnergized, it's not that powerful, but when the throttle has been opened slightly the plunger extends then it is powerful enough to keep the throttle open... Obviously it worked before cause the car wasn't stalling...

BTW Nice Car!! And Good Luck!!
Posted By: Snoopy

Re: A12 Idle solenoid TROUBLESHOOTING problem - 03/15/09 09:25 PM

I don't have a wiring diagram for an A12 car, but here is one for 69 Charger. Maybe someone can fill in the blanks.

Attached picture 5095026-69Charger4.jpg
Posted By: 62maxwgn

Re: A12 Idle solenoid TROUBLESHOOTING problem - 03/15/09 11:02 PM

Quote:

i think something is either fried or shorted out? i shorted out the blue solenoid wire briefly 4 or 5 times trying to get the stud of the solonoid back into the barrel, it popped out. pleae help thanks



The solenoid plunger extends when energized,it goes back by itself when it loses power.
Posted By: sixbbl69

Re: A12 Idle solenoid TROUBLESHOOTING problem - 03/16/09 01:26 AM

Quote:

Quote:

i think something is either fried or shorted out? i shorted out the blue solenoid wire briefly 4 or 5 times trying to get the stud of the solonoid back into the barrel, it popped out. pleae help thanks



The solenoid plunger extends when energized,it goes back by itself when it loses power.

and let me tell you what else you did.oh never mind you probably figured it out by now.
Posted By: A12

Re: A12 Idle solenoid TROUBLESHOOTING problem - 03/16/09 03:21 AM

Let's see the high idle solenoid has one wire that goes to the ballast resistor on the firewall and the solenoid is grounded by the solenoid case/bracket attached to the intake manifold. The ignition key is turned on and 12 volts positive is fed to the solenoid wire at the ballast resistor and because of the bracket ground the solenoid is activated. Any keyed 12v + power source would accomplish the same results of activating the solenoid and de-activating it when shut off. The solenoid plunger should stay out the entire time the engine is running or connected to a 12 v power source. Is this correct?

MikeR
Posted By: A12

Re: A12 Idle solenoid TROUBLESHOOTING problem - 03/16/09 03:23 AM

Is this the connection at the ballast resistor and is this a key activated 12 v power source?

Attached picture 5096101-IMG_4584rs.jpg
Posted By: A12

Re: A12 Idle solenoid TROUBLESHOOTING problem - 03/16/09 03:29 AM

Here is the Master Tech procedure on the "High Idle Speed Solenoid" and how it works. Curb High Idle speed #1
Posted By: A12

Re: A12 Idle solenoid TROUBLESHOOTING problem - 03/16/09 03:32 AM

and finally one more adjustment from the 69 Master Tech info: Curb high idle #2
MikeR
Posted By: Snoopy

Re: A12 Idle solenoid TROUBLESHOOTING problem - 03/16/09 03:53 AM

Mike,
The problem he is having is the result of shorting the solenoid wire to ground. He doesn't have any voltage to the ballast resistor.
Posted By: A12

Re: A12 Idle solenoid TROUBLESHOOTING problem - 03/16/09 04:15 AM

Quote:

Mike,
The problem he is having is the result of shorting the solenoid wire to ground. He doesn't have any voltage to the ballast resistor.



confused here.....one wire from the solenoid and if connected to a 12v source the solenoid with the housing/bracket to a (-) ground should work???? If you take that one (1) wire from the solenoid and connect it to a ground how is that "shorting" the solenoid and not just not having a 12v source??? Are both sides of the ballast resistor spade teminals (+) positive and one side is switched or one side a ground the other (+) ??????? The solenoid seems to simple and straight forward; one positive lead and the housing is the ground, touch the (+) positive to a ground and no damage to the solenoid??? Do I have this all screwed up
Posted By: Snoopy

Re: A12 Idle solenoid TROUBLESHOOTING problem - 03/16/09 04:25 AM

He shorted the solenoid wire to ground. From that point on he had no +12v to the ballast or the solenoid.
Posted By: A12

Re: A12 Idle solenoid TROUBLESHOOTING problem - 03/16/09 04:43 AM

Quote:

He shorted the solenoid wire to ground. From that point on he had no +12v to the ballast or the solenoid.



Got it, duh on my end So he needs to start backtracking from the ballast resistor to the.......X......then to.......Y.......then
Posted By: LYNCHROAD69.5

Re: A12 Idle solenoid TROUBLESHOOTING problem - 03/16/09 05:14 PM

Sounds like you may have accidently fried the voltage regulator...see warning on most voltage regulators "Warning do not short any terminals to ground". Also remember that solenoid wire goes directly to IGN side of voltage regulator. I believe there is a way to test voltage regulator but I don't know how to do that. I'm sure someone else will chime in.
Posted By: A12

Re: A12 Idle solenoid TROUBLESHOOTING problem - 03/16/09 11:16 PM

Quote:

Sounds like you may have accidently fried the voltage regulator...see warning on most voltage regulators "Warning do not short any terminals to ground". Also remember that solenoid wire goes directly to IGN side of voltage regulator. I believe there is a way to test voltage regulator but I don't know how to do that. I'm sure someone else will chime in.



looking at the above wiring schematic I guess that would be the first place to look......what about the dash charging gauge would it indicate that the voltage regulator was not working?
Posted By: sixbbl69

Re: A12 Idle solenoid TROUBLESHOOTING problem - 03/17/09 12:51 PM

in 69 i took my car to dealer because of left valve cover leak while car was under warranty. when mechanic replaced valve cover the plastic on plug was between valve cover and edge on head. he got all done started engine let it run to check for leaks when he saw amp gauge was all the way over.they replaced wire going to solenoid and one other thing. everything was OK.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: A12 Idle solenoid TROUBLESHOOTING problem - 03/17/09 10:44 PM

Quote:

in 69 i took my car to dealer because of left valve cover leak while car was under warranty. when mechanic replaced valve cover the plastic on plug was between valve cover and edge on head. he got all done started engine let it run to check for leaks when he saw amp gauge was all the way over.they replaced wire going to solenoid and one other thing. everything was OK.



my gut feeling is that i fried the ignition switch, going to check it wednesday afternoon with VCODE bob. hes a electric guru.
i am not getting any power in the run position.ill post the results tomorrow night,if fixed. thanks
Posted By: a12superbee

Re: A12 Idle solenoid TROUBLESHOOTING problem - 03/18/09 10:08 AM

I would be a tough trick to smoke the switch itself without melting half of the wiring right out of the car. I guess we'll know in a few hours though.
Not a poke, pure observation/conversation.
Posted By: jbc426

Re: A12 Idle solenoid TROUBLESHOOTING problem - 03/18/09 12:38 PM

If you do have a bad voltage regulator, I think FBO Ignitions had the converted stock looking electronic regulators that look like the old points ones.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: A12 Idle solenoid TROUBLESHOOTING problem - 03/19/09 12:10 AM

just an update to the problem, the J2 drk blue wire with tracer from ignition 1 that goes from the bulkhead in the engine compartment to the voltage regulator had a bad connection.
my good friend VCODE Bob came to my rescue with his little batman kit and saved the day. he has more knowledge than you want to know and a terrific guy.
he'll chime in and give the details but for now its fixed and running perfectly.

Attached picture 5103031-A12SUPERBEEWITHWHEELDISCS002.JPG
Posted By: VCODE

Re: A12 Idle solenoid TROUBLESHOOTING problem - 03/19/09 12:43 AM

Hey Chris (mr lucky)

This one gave me a run for the money
It was the J2 DBL/W wire at the firewall bulkhead.We found a bad connection.The wire was not making good contact where the wire is crimped to the male blade terminal inside the 8 wire connector.The J2 goes from the Ignition switch to the bulkhead then feeds the Regulator which in turn feeds the resistor,coil,alt,and solenoid.
Hope this helps someone
Posted By: LimeliteAero

Re: A12 Idle solenoid TROUBLESHOOTING problem - 03/19/09 01:07 AM



GOOD NEWS!

Now take off those silly wheel disks.
Posted By: A12

Re: A12 Idle solenoid TROUBLESHOOTING problem - 03/19/09 02:05 AM

Quote:

Hey Chris (mr lucky)

This one gave me a run for the money
It was the J2 DBL/W wire at the firewall bulkhead.We found a bad connection.The wire was not making good contact where the wire is crimped to the male blade terminal inside the 8 wire connector.The J2 goes from the Ignition switch to the bulkhead then feeds the Regulator which in turn feeds the resistor,coil,alt,and solenoid.
Hope this helps someone



So was it caused by the shorting of the solenoid wire, a bad connection or a combination of both?


MikeR
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: A12 Idle solenoid TROUBLESHOOTING problem - 03/19/09 02:14 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Hey Chris (mr lucky)

This one gave me a run for the money
It was the J2 DBL/W wire at the firewall bulkhead.We found a bad connection.The wire was not making good contact where the wire is crimped to the male blade terminal inside the 8 wire connector.The J2 goes from the Ignition switch to the bulkhead then feeds the Regulator which in turn feeds the resistor,coil,alt,and solenoid.
Hope this helps someone



So was it caused by the shorting of the solenoid wire, a bad connection or a combination of both?


MikeR



my feeling is that the wire got hot and did something to the connector.i think the wire connector fitment might have been iffy to begin with and this just added to the problem.its a repro a12 wiring engine harness.

Attached picture 5103407-115-1543_IMG.JPG
Posted By: Snoopy

Re: A12 Idle solenoid TROUBLESHOOTING problem - 03/19/09 02:36 AM

Quote:

its a repro a12 wiring engine harness.




Do you know who made the harness?
Posted By: a12superbee

Re: A12 Idle solenoid TROUBLESHOOTING problem - 03/19/09 08:50 AM

Quote:



GOOD NEWS!

Now take off those silly wheel disks.



I was thinking the more I see them the more I like them.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: A12 Idle solenoid TROUBLESHOOTING problem - 03/19/09 11:18 AM

Quote:

Quote:



GOOD NEWS!

Now take off those silly wheel disks.



I was thinking the more I see them the more I like them.



its funny you said that as i was looking at the car yesterday and they are reall growing on me.
Even VCODE Bob thought they looked pretty cool.
only 1 company makes the A12 engine wiring harness.
Posted By: hemi-itis

Re: A12 Idle solenoid TROUBLESHOOTING problem - 03/19/09 02:24 PM

Posted By: Snoopy

Re: A12 Idle solenoid TROUBLESHOOTING problem - 03/19/09 03:43 PM

Quote:

only 1 company makes the A12 engine wiring harness.




There are at least two companies that make the engine bay harnesses.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: A12 Idle solenoid TROUBLESHOOTING problem - 03/19/09 07:48 PM

Quote:

Quote:

only 1 company makes the A12 engine wiring harness.




There are at least two companies that make the engine bay harnesses.



thats true but only bill and rose evans sells the A12 engine wire harness.
Posted By: Snoopy

Re: A12 Idle solenoid TROUBLESHOOTING problem - 03/19/09 07:55 PM

So does Year One.

Engine harness, 1969 Plymouth and Dodge B-body 440 6-pack models, reproduction.

Ballast resistor wire for 1969-1/2 440+6 Road Runner and Super Bee models
Posted By: Snoopy

Re: A12 Idle solenoid TROUBLESHOOTING problem - 03/19/09 07:58 PM

I have read numerous posts on Moparts over the years concerning loose connections on some of the wiring harnesses built by Evans, that's why I asked the question.
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: A12 Idle solenoid TROUBLESHOOTING problem - 03/19/09 08:03 PM

Quote:

I have read numerous posts on Moparts over the years concerning loose connections on some of the wiring harnesses built by Evans, that's why I asked the question.



Yes , same here , I have an Evans harness and some of the connections pulled off . Plus the Evans harness does not duplicate the factory A12 harness .
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: A12 Idle solenoid TROUBLESHOOTING problem - 03/19/09 08:04 PM

Quote:

Is this the connection at the ballast resistor and is this a key activated 12 v power source?



Mike, the connection on the ballast resistor is for the COIL , the idle solenoid is connected to the voltage regulator .
Posted By: Snoopy

Re: A12 Idle solenoid TROUBLESHOOTING problem - 03/19/09 08:13 PM

John,
Doesn't the idle solenoid plug into the special connector on the coil wire that plugs into the regulator?
Posted By: gtx6970

Re: A12 Idle solenoid TROUBLESHOOTING problem - 03/19/09 08:26 PM

Quote:

thats true but only bill and rose evans sells the A12 engine wire harness.



Sorry, But Frank Badalson/Roger Gibson also makes it and I've never heard any complaints about theres
Posted By: HPMike

Re: A12 Idle solenoid TROUBLESHOOTING problem - 03/19/09 08:35 PM

Quote:

Quote:

thats true but only bill and rose evans sells the A12 engine wire harness.



Sorry, But Frank Badalson/Roger Gibson also makes it and I've never heard any complaints about theres



It's the only correct one to my knowledge.
Posted By: Snoopy

Re: A12 Idle solenoid TROUBLESHOOTING problem - 03/19/09 08:48 PM

I think you will find that Year One supplies the harnesses to Frank Badalson/Roger Gibson and they are made by M&H.

Having said that, it looks like he has added the label and seems to have a lower list price than Year One.

69EH This is the only correct 69 ½ engine harness available. Correct modifications unique
to the 1969 ½ 440-6 cars only. Furnished with correct part number tag $105.00
69EHS ………………….with solenoid wire……………………..$130.00
69EHSB ……….with ballast resistor to coil wire…………………….$140.00
Posted By: I go fast

Re: A12 Idle solenoid TROUBLESHOOTING problem - 03/19/09 09:19 PM

Quote:

I think you will find that Year One supplies the harnesses to Frank Badalson/Roger Gibson and they are made by M&H.

Having said that, it looks like he has added the label and seems to have a lower list price than Year One.

69EH This is the only correct 69 ½ engine harness available. Correct modifications unique
to the 1969 ½ 440-6 cars only. Furnished with correct part number tag $105.00
69EHS ………………….with solenoid wire……………………..$130.00
69EHSB ……….with ballast resistor to coil wire…………………….$140.00



You are correct,they don't make them,they sell them.
Posted By: JohnRR

Re: A12 Idle solenoid TROUBLESHOOTING problem - 03/20/09 12:24 PM

Quote:

John,
Doesn't the idle solenoid plug into the special connector on the coil wire that plugs into the regulator?



There is a plug just like the one in the picture above on that ballast resistor , it's on the other side of the regulator, you just can't really see it in that picture but it's there .

I bought both the separate wires that Badalson sells to add them to the NOS 69 engine harness I have when I had an A12 , still have the harness and the wires just not the car. I used one of the wires to power the choke on my ebrock carb
© 2024 Moparts Forums