Original or repro fendertag RM21V0A

Hello,


Im helping a friend with a 70 RR.

I want your opinion on this tag.. im saying its a repro..

Sorry for the poor pictures.. i cant get any better for now.


Thanks
Nicklas

REPRODUCTION,

Maybe not !!

Yes Bill maybe not but first gut feeling there's just something that makes me think reproduction. Just my opinion. At this point 50/50,

Mmmm

I certainly don't know enough about RR's to comment on the orientation or spacing, but the letters for 1970 certainly appear correct. I wish it weren't shot so heavy with paint, maybe thats part of whats making everyone on edge.

Are there any pictures of the tags before the restoration?
After stripping the original paint?

I keep very detailed pics of my car's tag, prior, in process, and finished for this very reason, in case someone ever questions it.

I'll be curious to see what others will say

Is it me or does the 1 seem a little off?

Here’s the Lynch rd tag from my former 70 rr and notice the top right corner inspection stamp that I’m not seeing on the above tag.
I just noticed only three days apart SPD

...

FYI, even some reproductions are showing up with the inspection marks now

Mike,all reproductions tags I have seen have the top row of letters about half the distance to the rib on top of tag compared to an original,but thats just me.

One thing no one should ever do is point out details on fake tags.

The guys that make them lurk here & they are eager to learn so they can try to make more 'believable' fakes to help unscrupulous sellers rip off those that do not know details when the car sells.

No truer words spoken........the tag makers have been lurking here (probably over the years the most informed resto forum online IMO) for decades. I've seen some of there work and will leave it at that The bummer now is even if it is an exact copy of the original the fact that it is a reproduction still throws too much shade on the car and will sometimes hurt the image and value of it. There was an example this at this past BJ's with a tag that was declared by the seller as a reproduction of the original......but with some made up info.

I lean toward being real as not all tags got an inspection stamp

Spacing between individual letters & numbers seems funky

Isn't the fender tag lifted (bent) up in one corner to facilitate painting underneath and then folded down? One screw painted body color and one a bare plated screw? Don't see any bend marks.

Based on the 4 examples posted by 70440+6bbl I'd say you cannot declare it fake by this statement

Then the best thing to do here would be as some of the other forum rules,no fender tag discussion !

baloney!!!! education is the answer. you are not going to stop anything by with holding information. As I said before the best defence is a good offence. Its better to help someone "NOT LOSE THEIR SHIRT " than try prevent a suspected forger at getting better. If you truly believe that "fake tags " are that wide spread , and that this is your "true" calling then should you do everything in your power to educate everyone you can so they may determine for them selves if its real or fake.
It seams as though some of you forgot that this a hobby/ business and you forgotten about the hobby side,"helping each other ". What good is it to have all the info and not share it with anyone. Others have helped you by volunteering their info (fender tags, broadcast sheets , and other info) for you to build your data base. Imagine if they were to take the same approach as you are, where would you be then? help the guy out he's obouvisly trying not to be swindled.

Which brings up the question: Why do some people block out part of the VIN when showing their tag(s)? I've had people take photos of my VIN tag and data plate at car shows, photos of copies of my broadcast sheets and original window sticker, etc. Is this some kind of protection?
Terry

I agree with Little Detroit. I looked into this subject to learn something. Better to post a list of cars that are known frauds, then try to limit knowledge. If there is a broad cast sheet that tells you far more than the data tag anyway. Most guys won't even buy a car, let alone pay top dollar for one without it.

If you spend enough time on this forum, you learn who the most informed are for spotting fake tags. They are very helpful in pointing out whether a tag is fake or not. That information alone is helpful enough for the OP. That doesn't mean they have to explain exactly what is wrong, and YES make it easier for the dishonest people to make more convincing tags. I side with Barry on this.

If you know just say fake or real. You do not have to say whats wrong with it. Barry what about the BO29 tag you never said anything about that one.

Also,as far as the complete vin being posted,if not there would be no registry's !

to mr. butterscotch ta . you are correct you don't "have too" teach or explain anything to anybody. however if you don't want help someone understand the differences then why bother calling someone out for a fake tag. the OP probably doesn't know you any better or Bullwinkle , so why should trust a guy that says "trust me" but wont show why its a fake. there are a thousands of reasons and analogies to educate people, but only two reasons to not.

Come on everyone.. back to the topic.

"Usually" the other plants except or "usually" Lynch Road Assembly bent the fender tag right to left with the left screw in place. The Lynch Road fender tags were hanging (supposedly by a paperclip) somewhere inside the passenger's compartment maybe by the sun visor, mirror mount or steering column. So NO crease or fold mark on LR tags.

EDIT, EDIT

"ALL" & "NEVER" usually don't belong in any Mopar discussions

IMO the tag is "NOT AUTHENTIC". nothing I see specifically on the tag "rats" it out - is there any other documentation for the car?

I'll split this up some, just to cover a few points mentioned from my perspective.




I answer people emails asking if fender tags are fake or real all the time - for free.

I have three websites with my contact information available, so I am not hard to find.



It is a hobby for some & a business for some. A few different places make fake tags, why provide information to help them help their clients with better fakes?



Thousands of people have trusted me with their car data over the years. I use it to do good. If I started using what I have learned over the last 30 plus years to 'help' the dishonest people make fakes, I would lose the trust of thousands.



The OP asked about a Lynch Road tag, they are outside my area of study.

I do have a lot of 1970 Lynch Road information filed though. But the photo the OP posted has part of the VIN blocked. So is it worth taking any time to try to look up? I file everything by VIN, so why try to look anything up based on a hidden VIN?

1968 Hamtramck?

Again outside my area of study.

I study 1970 LA & Hamtramck coding.

If you would like to know pm me and I will tell you so you have that info also.

Paint is a little thick but looking at it from the back, fonts, spacing and line spacing all seem to be the same as the originals pictured above? There is also some sign of pitting or aging on the back. Is anyone on here really expert enough to declare it a reproduction?

OPINION JD just an opinion. So on the flip side "Is anyone on here really expert enough to declare it an original"....no but we're allowed to state an OPINION I think from now on I'm not going to state an opinion on any fender tags.


Mike

Remade.

One should never guess.

Me neither!

This discussion makes me realize that there ARE innocent people on death row! LOL!

Mike,maybe like this below,maybe yes,maybe no,may never know !!


Major HEMI car stach found in Conn!!!!!!!!
( 1 2 3 ...17 18 19 )
by hemi-itis

Barry doesn't use the PM system. You need to either email or snail mail him.

Thanks for all input. I will hopefully inspect the tag "live"soon when my friend send it over..

I dont want to show the full VIN when its not my car.

Do yourself a favor and take along some paint stripper.

Yes if im doing a live inspection i sure will.

I found this one saved to my computer. Very close car.

For anyone who wants to compare the one above to the one posted by the op.

Not sure if it is MANDATORY that every fender tag on a particular mopar left the assembly plant with an inspection mark. My gut says it is legit due to the appearance of pitting from corrosion on the bottom side.. Usually reproductions are nice and smooth everywhere on the tag......

my

Don't be fooled, I actually have a die plate stamp that embosses random pits on to fender tags before they're stamped, one comment from someone that I aged a repro tag for commented "now that tag looks really OLD"....

You mean like this !!

As someone previously mentioned, 1970 Lynch Road built B-bodies did not have the tag secured to the inner fender when the car was painted. It was hanging from the upper roof rail or similar area. That means they did not get more than a dusting of paint on them. They were then secured with screws to the inner fender after the car was dry. They don't have the typical bend up because an inspector didn't have to do that to punch a stamp in it (if it even got one). Well since there is hardly any paint on the bare steel tag they were very susceptible to rust. Plenty of years of humidity exposure to be sure is going to degrade that tag. I'd be very suspect of one that that is smooth.

I guess you need to look for a Broad cast sheet as part of the deal, if not one. Price accordingly.