1970 Door VIN Tag

Does the door printed VIN tag on a vehicle match the month that the fender tag says it is supposed to be built in, or the actual month of the day it was built. For example if the build date on the fender tag says 929, would the door tag say September or October when the car was actually built?

Thanks,

Jeff

The Mylar door sticker was one of the very last items to go on the car before leaving the plant.

It shows the actual build month.

The fender tag date is not a 'supposed to', it is the SPD (scheduled production date) which is when they hoped to build the car when the order was first entered into the system.

My 1970 Valiant is a good example, it has a SPD of 403 for April 3rd, but the door sticker shows March.

So for some reason it was built earlier than 'hoped for'.

Multiple other examples exist, some early & some late.

Shouldn't the door tag match the VIN tag on the dash, and also the vin on the last part of the fender tag?

Thanks Barry! As with all things mopar, its about as clear as mud... lol

What would you do? My mylar tag is missing...

Yes the complete VIN should match the dash tag. Above it is the month and year of production on the door sticker.

If I could find another example around my VIN that would really help...

It happens.

Yes, the VINs should match, but the month may not.

Do you have a broadcast sheet for it?

No broadcast sheet.

Not really.

They were built so far out of VIN order at times that another close VIN with a date is not enough.

Have ESC make you a new sticker and use the SPD or if you really think it's a month off look at the date code on your K frame. Rumor is that it is the date closest to when your car was built.

I'll have to check the date on the K-frame. I am leaning towards October, but some of the sheetmetal stamps like on the inner fender says 9/29/69.

without a broadcast sheet - plant & car model would help to answer the question

Hamtramck assembly line #1: I have info for 929 "SCHEDULED" cars built 2-days early thru 10/7 a week + late.

Lynch Rd. K-frame dates are a great clue, but it appears the same assembly procedures were not used at Hamtramck

Have you found any dated components with October dates that appear original to the car?

Hi Dan, we spoke a little about the car before. 1970 Super Bee WM23V0A136175. Lynch road car. I didn’t take the car apart, and it is missing some of its original components. So it is kind of difficult to tell. I can check the k frame and possibly the wiper motor. Any other good clue areas?

The date on the k-frame is right in the center on the front correct? I’ll have to clean some paint off

Jeff

That's the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (FMVSS) label and has nothing to do with a fender tag Scheduled Production Date or any broadcast sheet SPD. The date on it is the ACUTAL month and year that it rolled off the assembly line or actually left the factory headed to the dealership or lot pickup, and ALL Federally mandated safety items were installed and in place and the entire vehicle was in Federal Safety Standards compliance........"on the date above".

what's that label called again?

WM23V0A136175 w/929-SPD

OCTOBER (10-1969) "In Plant/In Process" at least 2-weeks LATE

One of my 70 Sixpack Bees has a SPD of 10/6/69 and the mylar sticker is 10/69

not the perfect example, but .....
Superbird RM23V0A171644 w/B30-SPD ("restored" in the '90s w/~60K miles on it)
based on the assigned VIN sequence it should have had a C01-SPD

all believed to be original to the car:

power steering box casting date 9299 = Monday 9/29/69
LH lower control arm stamped 301/921 = 301st day, Tuesday 10/28/69 (shift 2 line 1)
K-frame stamped 3229 1 = 322nd day, Tuesday 11/18/69 (shift 1)

car arrived at Clairpointe from Lynch Rd. Friday 11/28/69
car left Clairpointe Monday 12/1/69

Brennan Cook - SUPERBIRD pages

door sticker 12/69

That is very interesting that the sticker reflects when it left Clairpointe rather than Lynch Rd. Would never have guessed that.

they were not "finished" when they left for Clairpointe, therefore NO door sticker - YET

Dan that's a GREAT example of how that FMVSS label works!!!!! You are amazing!!

MikeR

Throwing superbirds in to this topic might create a bit of confusion since they all had B30 as their SPD on the fendertag
even though they were built in October November and December .
Much like the 69 1/2 A12 cars all had only two SPDs on their fender tags

Greg

Not really as it shows the FMVSS Federal safety label did not get issued or applied until all of the mandatory safety items were installed, whether they were installed after the main assembly line by a contracted company or safety components were delayed by a vendor or function failure/quality issue.

If the dated coded FMVSS label would have been a 1969 required label and my '69 GTX with a C16 - Dec 16th 1968 SPD would have been built on schedule C13 but the head restraints ("headrests") were delayed, the car would have put off to the side until the arrival of the head restraints. If they arrived before the end of December 1968 it would not have been an issues and they could have shipped the car maybe even without them and sent them to the dealer. But as of January 1, 1969 is was a mandatory Federal law that they had to leave Chrysler's manufacturing facility and control with ALL of the mandatory safety items in place or be fined for non-compliance. That dated FMVSS label was an admission and legal statement by the manufacture of compliance with the Federal Law and not to be taken lightly. Any deaths or injuries with any missing safety components that were not installed are big problems even then as today. That label still exists to this day and ECS makes good money supplying legal reproduction FMVSS labels with the CORRECT DATE OF MANUFACTURE. It's as important as a VIN plate or Emission VECI label, (DAMHIK)

MikeR

Holy Cow! Woke up to a wealth of information! Thanks Guys!!! I will get the wiper motor number, K-frame number, and steering box number.


Where is the EXACT location where the FMVSS label should be placed?

Jeff

Jeff

Since my car is very close to yours I can get you a photo if you don't mind waiting until tomorrow.

Morty

right around here another 929-SPD "SIX PACK BEE" built a couple days after yours (2 weeks + LATE)

Cool!! Thanks Dan! Looks like October it is.

Sure... Thanks Morty

The steering box is super greasy I have to clean it up. The wiper motor is 2659-S, and the k-frame is 2729-1.

Here are the manual steering box numbers 2537349-2.

And stamped on the to is E06024G.

Can anyone decipher these and validate that the steering box is from my car?

272 9 = 9/29/69

265 9 = 9/22/69

Thankfully I don't have to deal with this nonsense as my grandfathers car was built in 68 for the 69 model year. Since I had to call up ECS yesterday to order some more stuff, I had Charlie put me in contact with Dave there since he does the VIN stickers to see what he said being he does this for a living.

Here is what he had to say about it......He got a chuckle at the direction this talk was headed. He said the date listed on the tag had more to do with NHST 49 CFR 567 - certification and US Law. He said you guys try to define your entire research with Chrysler related parts and internal certification and it really has nothing to do with the standards set by the factory. Every manufacturer has to comply with the standards set by the SAE & NHTSA requirements. (hope I got that alphabet soup in the right order) You have to know use the DMV & SAE Laws in conjunction with factory protocol otherwise you're just guessing.

Like I said, either way it doesn't matter to me as it does not apply to my vehicle since my car was exempt from this standard so I have no dog in the fight but it was nice to get the inside scoop on how the stuff was done.

Dave is not fully correct or you may have misquoted what Dave said, Dave is rarely if ever incorrect. As for your '68 build '69 model the main difference with the label is the label wording and requirement of the date "IN EFFECT ON THE DATE OF MANUFACTURE SHOWN ABOVE". The 1966 mandated Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards had a multiple year phase-in period that for the most part concluded with the 1970 model "year" vehicles. As you can see from a 1968 model year Monroney Label/"Window Sticker" the NHTSA FMVSS components and vehicle design were starting to be put in place or complied with. This '68 / '69 model YEAR FMVSS label is the predecessor to the '70 onward label that is still used to this day........less the date. And "IN EFFECT ON THE DATE OF MANUFACTURE SHOWN ABOVE" means when the vehicle is complete. An example of how the "date of manufacture" would have had a bearing on a safety item had it been in place for your '68 build '69 model would have been the FMVSS head "restraint" requirement as of January 1, 1969. Had your car been delayed to being COMPLETED on the '68 Scheduled Production Date and finalized on or after January 1, 1969 your car for sure would have had to have the mandatory head restraints (aka headrests) even if the broadcast sheet didn't call for them. The FMVSS door label on the '70 model year vehicles was one of if not the final label to go on the car when the car was actually complete. Don't mess with the Feds DAMHIK

It doesn't seem that DaveW actually read this thread? Did he? No one here is actually trying to pinpoint the date on the label but trying to help a member to not put a date on it that is so far off of what it might be. Chrysler as manufactures to this day build vehicles on what was the "JIT" method or deliveries of components to the assembly line "Just in Time" for production as we all know. If the majority of the date coded components are within line of the member's SPD for his car then it narrows the window of what that label's date MIGHT be. There is little chance that the label's date would be months or even one month before the majority original component date codes and Scheduled Production Date. Dave would or might even ask a customer that does not know the actual date some of the very same questions as being asked here. Dave now has the advantage of current computer based documentation and support of the manufactures and NHSTA on exact production dates per the VIN that he can reproduce his excellent current labels correctly. I'm not betting that Dave has read this thread and really knows what is being discussed.

MikeR

It seems that the dated parts of a car have nothing to do when the decal was affixed to the door. I have heard of where cars have been held on the line because they had an electric top installed or door glass broke and the car didn't get the VIN placed on it until it was ready to leave the Factory. This thread seems like people were trying to use dated parts to determine when a VIN label would have a date printed and the has nothing to do with anything. My grandfathers car has parts that were dated 7 months before the car left the line which would have no impact on the time frame that the VIN label was affixed to his car, should his car been applicable to receiving the VIN sticker. From what I am gathering, the label was about the last thing to go on the car after it was complete and didn't go on until it was ready to leave the plant and be shipped.

A couple searches on the internet found this.......(no, I didn't write it all out.... just copied and pasted for everyones reading pleasure)

§ 567.4 Requirements for manufacturers of motor vehicles.
(a) Each manufacturer of motor vehicles (except vehicles manufactured in two or more stages) shall affix to each vehicle a label, of the type and in the manner described below, containing the statements specified in paragraph (g) of this section.
(b) The label shall be riveted or permanently affixed in such a manner that it cannot be removed without destroying or defacing it.
(c) Except for trailers and motorcycles, the label shall be affixed to either the hinge pillar, door-latch post, or the door edge that meets the door-latch post, next to the driver's seating position, or if none of these locations is practicable, to the left side of the instrument panel. If that location is also not practicable, the label shall be affixed to the inward-facing surface of the door next to the driver's seating position. If none of the preceding locations is practicable, notification of that fact, together with drawings or photographs showing a suggested alternate location in the same general area, shall be submitted for approval to the Administrator, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, Washington, D.C. 20590. The location of the label shall be such that it is easily readable without moving any part of the vehicle except an outer door.
(d) The label for trailers shall be affixed to a location on the forward half of the left side, such that it is easily readable from outside the vehicle without moving any part of the vehicle.
(e) The label for motorcycles shall be affixed to a permanent member of the vehicle as close as is practicable to the intersection of the steering post with the handle bars, in a location such that it is easily readable without moving any part of the vehicle except the steering system.
(f) The lettering on the label shall be of a color that contrasts with the background of the label.
(g) The label shall contain the following statements, in the English language, lettered in block capitals and numerals not less than three thirty-seconds of an inch high, in the order shown:
(1) Name of manufacturer: Except as provided in paragraphs (g)(1)(i), (ii) and (iii) of this section, the full corporate or individual name of the actual assembler of the vehicle shall be spelled out, except that such abbreviations as “Co.” or “Inc.” and their foreign equivalents, and the first and middle initials of individuals, may be used. The name of the manufacturer shall be preceded by the words “Manufactured By” or “Mfd By.” In the case of imported vehicles to which the label required by this section is affixed by the Registered Importer, the name of the Registered Importer shall also be placed on the label in the manner described in this paragraph, directly below the name of the actual assembler.
(i) If a vehicle is assembled by a corporation that is controlled by another corporation that assumes responsibility for conformity with the standards, the name of the controlling corporation may be used.
(ii) If a vehicle is fabricated and delivered in complete but unassembled form, such that it is designed to be assembled without special machinery or tools, the fabricator of the vehicle may affix the label and name itself as the manufacturer for the purposes of this section.
(iii) If a trailer is sold by a person who is not its manufacturer, but who is engaged in the manufacture of trailers and assumes legal responsibility for all duties and liabilities imposed by the Act with respect to that trailer, the name of that person may appear on the label as the manufacturer. In such a case the name shall be preceded by the words “Responsible Manufacturer” or “Resp Mfr.”
(2) Month and year of manufacture: This shall be the time during which work was completed at the place of main assembly of the vehicle. It may be spelled out, as “June 2000”, or expressed in numerals, as “6/00”.
(3) “Gross Vehicle Weight Rating” or “GVWR” followed by the appropriate value in pounds, which shall not be less than the sum of the unloaded vehicle weight, rated cargo load, and 150 pounds times the number of the vehicle's designated seating positions. However, for school buses the minimum occupant weight allowance shall be 120 pounds per passenger and 150 pounds for the driver.
(4) “Gross Axle Weight Rating” or “GAWR,” followed by the appropriate value in pounds, for each axle, identified in order from front to rear (e.g., front, first intermediate, second intermediate, rear). The ratings for any consecutive axles having identical gross axle weight ratings when equipped with tires having the same tire size designation may, at the option of the manufacturer, be stated as a single value, with the label indicating to which axles the ratings apply.
Examples of combined ratings:
GAWR:
(a) All axles - 2,400 kg (5,290 lb) with LT245/75R16(E) tires.
(b) Front - 5,215 kg (11,500 lb) with 295/75R22.5(G) tires.
First intermediate to rear - 9,070 kg (20,000 lb) with 295/75R22.5(G) tires.
(5) One of the following statements, as appropriate:
(i) For passenger cars, the statement: “This vehicle conforms to all applicable Federal motor vehicle safety, bumper, and theft prevention standards in effect on the date of manufacture shown above.” The expression “U.S.” or “U.S.A.” may be inserted before the word “Federal”.
(ii) In the case of multipurpose passenger vehicles (MPVs) and trucks with a GVWR of 6,000 pounds or less, the statement: “This vehicle conforms to all applicable Federal motor vehicle safety and theft prevention standards in effect on the date of manufacture shown above.” The expression “U.S.” or “U.S.A.” may be inserted before the (word “Federal”).
(iii) In the case of multipurpose passenger vehicles (MPVs) and trucks with a GVWR of over 6,000 pounds, the statement: “This vehicle conforms to all applicable Federal motor vehicle safety standards in effect on the date of manufacture shown above.” The expression “U.S.” or “U.S.A.” may be inserted before the word “Federal”.
(iv) For all other vehicles, the statement: “This vehicle conforms to all applicable Federal motor vehicle safety standards in effect on the date of manufacture shown above.” The expression “U.S.” or “U.S.A.” may be inserted before the word “Federal”.
(6) Vehicle identification number.
(7) The type classification of the vehicle as defined in § 571.3 of this chapter (e.g., truck, MPV, bus, trailer).
(h)Multiple GVWR-GAWR ratings.
(1) (For passenger cars only) In cases in which different tire sizes are offered as a customer option, a manufacturer may at its option list more than one set of values for GVWR and GAWR, to meet the requirements of paragraphs (g) (3) and (4) of this section. If the label shows more than one set of weight rating values, each value shall be followed by the phrase “with _tires,” inserting the proper tire size designations. A manufacturer may, at its option, list one or more tire sizes where only one set of weight ratings is provided.
Example:
Passenger Car
GVWR: 4,400 lb with P195/65R15 tires; 4,800 lb with P205/75R15 tires.
GAWR: Front - 2,000 lb with P195/65R15 tires at 24 psi; 2,200 lb with P205/75R15 tires at 24 psi. Rear - 2,400 lb with P195/65R15 tires at 28 psi; 2,600 lb with P205/75R15 tires at 28 psi.
(2) (For multipurpose passenger vehicles, trucks, buses, trailers, and motorcycles) The manufacturer may, at its option, list more than one GVWR-GAWR-tire-rim combination on the label, as long as the listing contains the tire-rim combination installed as original equipment on the vehicle by the manufacturer and conforms in content and format to the requirements for tire-rim-inflation information set forth in Standard Nos. 110, 120, 129 and 139 (§§ 571.110, 571.120, 571.129 and 571.139 of this chapter).
(3) At the option of the manufacturer, additional GVWR-GAWR ratings for operation of the vehicle at reduced speeds may be listed at the bottom of the certification label following any information that is required to be listed.
(i) [Reserved]
(j) A manufacturer may, at its option, provide information concerning which tables in the document that accompanies the vehicle pursuant to § 575.6(a) of this chapter apply to the vehicle. This information may not precede or interrupt the information required by paragraph (g) of this section.
(k) In the case of passenger cars imported into the United States under 49 CFR 591.5(f) to which the label required by this section has not been affixed by the original assembler of the passenger car, a label meeting the requirements of this paragraph shall be affixed before the vehicle is imported into the United States, if the car is from a line listed in appendix A of 49 CFR part 541. This label shall be in addition to, and not in place of, the label required by paragraphs (a) through (j), inclusive, of this section.
(1) The label shall be riveted or permanently affixed in such a manner that it cannot be removed without destroying or defacing it.
(2) The label shall be affixed to either the hinge pillar, door-latch post, or the door edge that meets the door-latch post, next to the driver's seating position, or, if none of these locations is practicable, to the left side of the instrument panel. If that location is also not practicable, the label shall be affixed to the inward-facing surface of the door next to the driver's seating position. The location of the label shall be such that it is easily readable without moving any part of the vehicle except an outer door.
(3) The lettering on the label shall be of a color that contrasts with the background of the label.
(4) The label shall contain the following statements, in the English language, lettered in block capitals and numerals not less than three thirty-seconds of an inch high, in the order shown:
(i) Model year (if applicable) or year of manufacture and line of the vehicle, as reported by the manufacturer that produced or assembled the vehicle. “Model year” is used as defined in § 593.4 of this chapter. “Line” is used as defined in § 541.4 of this chapter.
(ii) Name of the importer. The full corporate or individual name of the importer of the vehicle shall be spelled out, except that such abbreviations as “Co.” or “Inc.” and their foreign equivalents and the middle initial of individuals, may be used. The name of the importer shall be preceded by the words “Imported By”.
(iii) The statement: “This vehicle conforms to the applicable Federal motor vehicle theft prevention standard in effect on the date of manufacture.”
(l)
(1) In the case of a passenger car imported into the United States under 49 CFR 591.5(f) which does not have a vehicle identification number that complies with 49 CFR 565.4 (b), (c), and (g) at the time of importation, the Registered Importer shall permanently affix a label to the vehicle in such a manner that, unless the label is riveted, it cannot be removed without being destroyed or defaced. The label shall be in addition to the label required by paragraph (a) of this section, and shall be affixed to the vehicle in a location specified in paragraph (c) of this section.
(2) The label shall contain the following statement, in the English language, lettered in block capitals and numerals not less than 4 mm high, with the location on the vehicle of the original manufacturer's identification number provided in the blank: ORIGINAL MANUFACTURER'S IDENTIFICATION NUMBER SUBSTITUTING FOR U.S. VIN IS LOCATED ___.

Again, not trying to get into any one up matches, as the VIN sticker doesn't apply to my car. Just trying to provide correct info like the rest of people here.

Thank you for confirming that the date of (completed) manufacture cannot be BEFORE the date codes of the majority of the ORIGINAL components on the car. This isn't about who is right or who is wrong just about common sense. Like picking the correct jack instructions for your car, or correct date coded tires or on and on. Dave W himself was hit with the incorrect date codes tires (two were manufacturing date codes that were weeks after his car "rolled" off of the assembly line) on his "perfect" Valiant along with the incorrect power steering color for that model year. Trivial date codes that cost Dave an almost perfect score, that was a bummer to me. Should we tell the OP to just pick any date (code) on the label they wish as there is no wrong date? Seems what is being said here is there is no way of pinpointing the exact date of manufacture but there is evidence what the date might not be. Maybe Dave can be the upfront, standup guy I've always known him to be and let the OP know the date of manufacture the label should contain when the OP orders the label from him and how he came to that conclusion. This will surely help other customers of his gathering those clues before they place future label orders.

Thanks for the CFR copy and paste, I always enjoy reading them

Agreed with the common sense. Which is why I think Dave chose to take the point hit on the date code of the tires vs having original ones being worn and used. Going after OE certification means that the car has to look as it did new, not used. So, with that being said, what would you rather have done if you were in his shoes? Take the point hit for the incorrect date code but having something that is brand new appearing and perfect in every way (except for the date) or something that has a correct date but appears chewed up and used from road wear? I know if I ever go through OE with a car (not that I will cause I don't have that kind of money) I'd want it to represent something new and not used.

As for the exact date of manufacture, one thing solid can be said. If you have the original VIN sticker, then that is what the date of manufacture of the completed car was. Otherwise going off of date coded parts, fender tags, or whatever, you are only taking a guess which could be wrong. As for Dave.... I'm sure he had worked with thousands and thousands of certification labels in his 20 years or so of service to the industry. Not only does he manufacture Chrysler products but he mentioned that he does it for more than 40 different manufacturers, including motorcycles, semi-complete vehicles, union certification decals other Federal mandated labels. He has worked with every legal institution and has even been instrumental in helping to fabricate current Certification Standards under California DMV Standards. I can almost guarantee his research has gone far beyond dissecting cars from junk yards, deciphering information from grinding numbers on K- Frames, or researching wiper motors or whatever date coded part you'd prefer to chose.

The fact that his choice for choosing cosmetically better appearing tires on his Valiant had absolutely nothing to do with the original VIN label that was affixed to his Valiant. If memory serves me right, he had the correct tires that came with the car from the factory but decided to go with a better looking set of NOS versions for visual purposes only. Had he used the original tires, he would have probably been docked for them not being in pristine. new looking condition, like OE judges on. He chose to have the deduction for the wrong date codes because the "average" person like me, would have never deciphered the DOT coded numbers but they probably would have easily seen the "used" condition that they exhibited. He was going for an OE Car. Period. He probably didn't give a second thought to correct VIN certification from 1970 because he had an original to use. It's as simple as that. No guessing, no assuming what dated parts were placed on the car last, nothing. He had an original to use and therefore, did. Its just like trying to replicate a fender tag. Unless you have an original to go off of, you are only doing a "guess" as to what was on it originally. Again, like you said..... common sense approach.

Hi Dave I've really missed having discussions like this with you for a few years now.


MikeR

there may be a small flaw in your explanation. THE FEDERAL MOTOR VEHICLE SAFETY STANARDS ACT was in its infancy in 1969-1970 the description of #2 was written in 19999 for the year 2000, much like anything the government does gets updated continually ,probably to close the loop holes that the manufactures had found. in 1969 the first FMVSS decal was printed and ended up on some of the 1969 Daytona's. the first decal read "THIS VEHICLE CONFORMS TO ALL APPLICAL U.S.FEDERAL MOTOR VEHICLE SAFTEY STANARDS IN EFFECT ON THE DATE OF MANUFACTURE SHOWN ABOVE". To me this says that the vehicle manufactured complies to the STANDARDS THAT WERE IN EFFECT on the date shown above. you may think im splitting hairs but that is what it says, and by the following year the wording had changed and again after that.
which means to me That the vin number and vehicle were assembled according to the rules that were in effect on that date provided above.the regulations could have changed at any time as this was all new to the industry and shows what set of rules they followed as concerning to public safety.

Dude. I'm not Dave. I'm just a kid from Greenwood Lake, NY that my grand pop gave me that used to be his. I have talked to both Dave and Charlie at ECS when I've ordered parts for my rr but that's about as close to Dave as I've been. Lol. If you'd like, the next time I call them up for parts , I'll tell them you said hi. That is if you want me to.

it doesn't matter who you are. it reads the same no matter who you are. and you say hello if you wish. what I trying to relate to you is read what the decal says not what you want it to say. the FMVSS decal was about safety standards and a notification to the public as to what safety standards guide lines the vehicle was manufactured bye , not the date the vehicle was manufactured , but I believe that is the point the other gentlemen where trying to make when discussing the date codes on certain parts on the vehicle ,which along with other data might help you figure out an approximant date. maybe the fender tag date would be correct, at least it gives a definitive date.

Thanks! That's all anyone was trying to say to HELP someone

MikeR

Thanks, there's a lot of details and emotion here that made me ask the question.......

Don't want to lose this info..

True but even the fender tag was not a solid date that the car was built on. I believe AlakanTA also said that. It was a guesstimated time as to when the car was built.

Guessing as to what the date on the VIN sticker was without having an original to copy is like throwing a hand grenade blind. You might get some splash damage from the shrapnel but it's very unlikely to nail the exact point ( in this case date) you are aiming for.

Can someone please answer cuda340's question, or at the least what it shouldn't be or hand grenade, ballpark or atom bomb WAG of what to order the label date, this is not an O.E. Gold restoration.............or is it

Here's my WAG with consideration to the K-frame stamping of 272 9 1 (September 29, 1969) first shift that coincides ironically with the same date (not shift) on the fender tag's "Scheduled" Production Date. The guestimate now has to consider the timeline of a '70 model year car from Body-in-White to rolling off of the end of the assembly line. It has two days to do that to get the October date code or screw it and just go with the label being put in place on September 29th, or 30th and move on. No one IMO will call you out on it............well maybe one of those nasty, know it all O.E. judges will or....

MikeR

I just wanted to say thanks to all that have contributed to this thread. I certainly learned something. The car is not going for O.E. gold so I am safe to say, a month or two mistake isn't going to break my heart... LOL

I do have some other dates to add that I found on the car, on the inner fender on the drivers side it is stamped 9/29/69, and in the same location on the passenger side it is stamped 10/3/69. So now I can at least say it PROBABLY left the factory in October. I think I am going to stick with that.

Thanks for all the help guys!

Jeff

The SPD for my '70 Dart is 802, but the door sticker says 9-1969. So no, the month of the door sticker does not necessarily match the month of the SPD.

In general I would say that the date on the door sticker would not be earlier than the latest date code found on the car.

by the looks of your info offered your car may be one of the exceptions to the rule of thumb, like your assembly was held out of line for one reason or the other.
it is more than likely that your car was finished and inspected sometime after the updated change for the FMVSS decal for the following month and that's just an opinion on the limited info you provided. however not sure there is anymore info to provide about those dates unless as they "now for the rest of the story".

can you share more info about your Dart, in this thread or start another

with an 802-SPD the car is probably a PROMO "dealer introductory show unit" * NO cars were assembled on SUNDAY August 2, 1969

I've always wondered what happened to the PROMO A-bodies, this would be the first one I've heard of - lots of known B & E-bodies

Agreed! I also have seen examples where the spo date was after the VIN sticker. The VIN sticker was pretty much one of the last things that seem to have been placed on the car with the exception of the window sticker. Remember, just because the fender tag has a date doesn't necessarily mean that's when it was built. Scheduled to be built, yes, but not the exact final assembly date.

No problem. It's a 340 4-speed, 3.23 SG car. Here is the fender tag and a pic of the car. Vinyl top was added by the previous owner and I left it on.

It would be good to see the sequential# and VON on that swinger .

Greg

A agree. At least share the first 2 numbers/letters of the VON. This will show if it might be a true dealer promo car.

My friend/Moparts member just picked this ‘70 Bee up. It also has an SPD of 9/29. The door sticker shows 10-1969. I hope this picture works

That is a GREAT post and image and INFO!!!

Awesome Thanks! Would love to see the rest of the car! Also take a pic of the top of the steering box where the adjusting screw is if it a manual steer car. I would love to see that.

thanks,
Jeff

Jeff, it’s a power steering car. I’ll ask him to post more pictures.

I picked up this 1970 super bee yesterday. It is a one family owned car since November 1969. It was sold new at Reedman in Pennsylvania. It was parked in late 1978 and the engine was removed. Since then the car sat in the garage. It is a low option car, and never modified. Never had headers, never had an aftermarket radio, so on and so forth. The fender tag shows in SPD of 929, and the door sticker is 10-1969.

Build Sheet

Car

Reedman sticker in the glovebox on the back "wall":

.

EWJ! Congrats! looks great. Is it a manual steer car? More pics? Can you take a pick of the steering box number?

Jeff

It is a PS car. Sorry.

Thanks for the pics. Nice to see original cars!

Jeff

Great buy Ed. Even the reverse lockout linkage is still there.

My 929 SPD Bee. Sadly, the door tag was removed when the changed it to resale red in the 'late '70's. Very close to the OP's Bee.

2 - 3 day window for the assembly of a car at Lynch Road from Body-In-White (BIW) to the end of the assembly line depending at what time of the day it was started in BIW. The Winged Warriors Lynch Road assembly story states "Two Days" from BIW to rolling off end of the line to head to the delivery truck or train car.

From the WW LR story:

The Lynch Road Plant consists of six major areas of assembly, each of which functions as a nearly-independent mini-factory.
•Metal Shop = Body-in-White (BIW): assembly of complete bare body.
• Paint Shop: metal preparation, painting.
•Chassis Department: Engine "dress," mating of engine-transmission-rear end assemblies.
•Trim Line: Installation of body mechanical and electrical parts and sub-assemblies.
•Final Line: Glass, interior, final details.
•Car conditioning: Repair of completed vehicles, misc. tasks.

It will take two day's construction from Metal Shop to loading a running car on a transport truck! The very long assembly lines move slowly and steadily.


MikeR

Remember to start a new topic on the carpet color

Good one, can't wait for that

Been waiting for that....

It has black carpet and it is the original.

I've been working on a number of "Actual in-Production Date" calendars, but '70 Lynch Rd. isn't one that I've spent much time on.

Here are 10 Coronets from Lynch Rd. with a 929-"Scheduled Production Date" & the dates I've figured they were actually "In Plant/In Process". At this point (with Lynch Rd. data) I have not taken into account any Saturday work or any stoppage for any reason. Anyone have access to a UAW contract or calendar from Lynch Rd. (or other plants) from the muscle car era?

im curious what information are you using to determine your results?

Awesome info Dan!

Ed,

Can you get a couple of close-up pics of the reverse/lockout linkage?

Thanks

Jeff

they aren't quite results, a hypothesis - maybe, still need more info (see above) - I've figured out '70 St. Louis & most of Line #1 at Hamtramck, Lynch Rd. would need 100s of hours put into it to get "0A" better than the above "smaller than a ballpark-snapshot of 929" but it is getting close - then there's the other plants/other years ..... I'm using anything I can get my hands/eyes on

great Super Bee "EWJ", Dark Green metallic w/GREEN "C"-stripes & a broadcast sheet to prove it aren't Lynch Rd. fender tags wonderful?

I guess you missed the point of my question? what information are you using that has weight as related to the time a car came off the assembly line or even exactly what day it came off the line. like I said im curious . would you please share the formula you have used to obtain your hypothesis ?

I'm glad someone finally asked that question. With all due respect, one of the people posting here is going off on nothing more than attempt to form a false narrative. They're using information that is as random as the different circumstances that can be used to build a car. It is a complete and absolute waste of time. It's similar saying you want to do a study on ALL Fruits to get information for Bananas, Grapes, Kiwis, Oranges, Pears, Pineapples, etc...... and then only go to an Apple Orchard for your investigating. There is no conspiracy or engineered protocol to be learned here. The Certification starts with Corporate Law and the Factory has to comply with Automotive shipping mandates. That sums it up completely! The Factory didn't start the process. It began with Congress in the Summer of 1966 and signed into NHTSA/SAE Law by President Johnson in September of 1966. The "infancy" of the program did not start in 1969/1970. It was already 3 years old.

A car could have been built, damaged, ordered earlier than expected and required a new Label be printed before it was shipped. This would warrant a Federal Label being placed prior to the build components that some are trying to use to justify the final shipment. You'll find some cars that were built prior to the SPD. You'll find some cars built after the SDP date. We come across this issue all the time with our newer model cars. If we handled them the way some are trying to orchestrate and process in this thread, we would lose our licensing and possibly be charged with a Federal tampering crime.

The criteria being used here has gone off in a wrong direction for understanding NHTSA protocol. It's no wonder that the OE judging programs are so messed up. If this is how criteria is established, history is constantly being changed and rewritten to accommodate a false agenda. Please do ALL of your research. Many are either too lazy, arrogant and simply choose to limit their research because they think they're above reproach. It can make the difference between misleading people and providing correct information. We find many of these anomalies on a daily basis. I'm not looking to argue the facts, they are what they are. No two "Government" entities working together, ever seem to get things exactly as intended. Most of this is the exception and not the rule. Here are a couple of recent examples to illustrate the point.

Thanks,
David Walden

Thanks!

Yes, they are soooo helpful....

This sheet was under the rear seat cushion. Hoping to fish it out tomorrow. Will see if there is a second on the rear seat back.

I'll try to get that for you tomorrow.

Ed

I wonder what kind of actual evidence you have for this. Are you comparing spo dates on the fender tags to the actual VIN decal? If so, there are still way too many variables to get a definite date as to when it was actually finished. If a car was pulled off the line for a scratched molding or to have say the random water leak test done, I'm sure that would have delayed it in getting the final VIN decal slapped onto the car. What about cars that might have been pushed ahead of others for people such as corporate execs who bought a car and didn't want to wait. Again, like I said before, the only way to know exactly what info that is supposed to be on the VIN tag is what was there originally. Once that is gone, and you don't have a pic or other proof, you are only guessing at what "could have been".

Dave, hello again. I understand all of the details you've brought up from your wealth of knowledge and experience with compliance labels, restoration, O.E. judging or should I say O.E. JUDGES. I also "think" I know why you seem a little upset about the process that is being taken to try to get the OP a shot gun blast/ballpark date of production that to this day is a month wide window but in this case it's for a 47-year old car that the OP says is not going to be a show judged car. In this case with the SPD being so close to the end of one month and the beginning of the next, trying to determine what the date on a missing label might NOT be is the best anyone can do and that is all that is trying to be done. What's the big harm here? Not everyone knows what you know and you're not going to be judging his car (at least I hope not because he's in big trouble if you do, you know way too much ). If the OP were to order this label from you and you were given the story that is written here what would you tell or ask the OP to sell him a label. Would he be SOL for not having the original label or date (month) of production and just go and find another source that would print any date (month) close or not? How would you determine the month of production for the OP's car and label?

Thanks Dave Walden I know you will live up to your screen name.


MikeR

Hi Mike. I'm not upset in the least that anyone tries to find out which side of the month they feel their Certification Label should fall on. The problem goes FAR beyond just a simple VIN decal. Some guys do this ALL the time. (NOT the OP or the person looking for the information.) They go half prepared in their investigation and they have almost NOTHING substantial to base their figures on. They look in ONE place when it may take ten times the amount of research they're willing to provide. If you're going to step up to "Help People" you had better give your VERY BEST and be willing to provide your "BEST" to help those People. Instead, they take their incorrect opinion and make RULES that were never established. I personally think that's arrogant, self serving and horrible for the Hobby. Why can't people admit they don't have the facts? Why do they CONSTANTLY argue with people who have had PPAP CERTIFICATION, NHTSA Training, SAE Standards, DMV and DOT Training, in the very area that they are making incorrect assessments about? Their arrogance is counterproductive to the Industry. Them being "right" is as important to them as anything else.

Like I said, if some of you "ignorantly" followed their WRONG advice on newer vehicles and changed protocol, you could potentially be charged with VIN fraud. The sad thing is that they don't care about you as long as you feed their ego! Their incorrect "importance" is the only thing that matters.........and THEY DON'T EVEN HAVE A FINISHED CAR THAT EXEMPLIFIES ALL THEIR "SUPPOSED" INFINITE WISDOM AND KNOWLEDGE! Think about that fact just for a moment and then ask yourself why many of you give this fake, "self serving" power to them?

Hello Everyone,

I would like to thank everyone for there responses and the discussion that has developed. As mentioned, I am not going for a judged O.E. gold car, I just wanted to present the vehicle to look "original". Unfortunately I do not have the build sheet, window sticker or original door label to reference to. I do have the fender tag as well as many of the stamped locations on the car and parts to semi go off of. I understand that the information I have is the best I got, and that it will never be truly known the actual date on the label. Again thanks Dave, Dan, Mike and others.

Jeff

Whats up with that broadcast sheet? The 2nd line is shifted, and the 3rd line is off too.

Did 383 SBs not have dual exhaust?

If you look at the top of the sheet, it was printed on an E-Series 1969 model year blank. It was somewhat common, they must have been using up old stock at the plant.

Not exactly sure what you want to see. Snapped a couple. Please let me know if something else is needed.

Ed

2nd

Brewers has clear picture of every part and has in stock

Thank you Jeff for taking the time to inquire about the subject. I can promise you that we will always do our very best to make your experience a positive one. Without the input of people such as yourself, we are not privileged to promote and serve this Industry. Thanks for your patience and have a very Merry Christmas......to everyone!

So would superbirds be the easiest to pick the door sticker for due to the nascar list? RM23V0A171644 had nascar ship date dec1 sticker dec 1969.