Question on high-end paint brands

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Hey Guys,

What are some of the higher end paint brands these days for a base/clear paint job? Is PPG still a top of the line paint?

Thanks!

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ATTENTION - I AM HIJACKING THIS POST.

There, okay what about acrylic enamel? Whose at the top of the heap there?

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Standox...

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Standox...

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Only because you live near Detroit do I mention this.

I have been in a really fancy hi tech paint training facility in Detroit owned by Akzo Nobel, they make Sikkens, Lesonal and U tech paint. They painted one of my dragsters there, they tell me they use Sikkens on some of the worlds most expensive cars at the factory's.

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but we all have to pay the piper at some point

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The Sikkens chip we looked at wasn't even close to a match...

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The problem with color chips, color eye, color keys, computer mix formulas, that yesteryear and more so today, is that the paint mfg's have streamlined the color ALTs to an extreme minimum, and at some cases, just one formula code/mix, ANY color or Mfg's paint can be made to match the desired color/hue/tint/etc....picking paint based on a "chip" is just the beginning, for some it's the end all to their paint quest, so many times I have a customer tell me their "paint guy" says no mix/formula for a certain color, or they buy their own paint believing it's an exact match, because the chip is so close (usually out of a 30 year old book), or the computer says it's right....I've gone to great lengths to get color matches at times, only to have the guy mixing it, FUBAR it....or supplied paint for a customers project that another painter is going to use, only to find out he changed the primer shade value on the car, which can result in a profound effect on the finished color at times depending on the paint, and color in question....so intial color/chip matching means nothing if the entire painting process to achieve a "match" isn't followed and this means right up to the tech applying the paint and his/her technique(s) employed

Mike

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color/chip matching means nothing if the entire painting process to achieve a "match" isn't followed and this means right up to the tech applying the paint and his/her technique(s) employed

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All very good choices for top of the line paints listed so far.....but the OP hasn't given a dollar figure he has in mind just for product alone, if he hasn't purchased paint ever, or product in some time, he's in for a shock, I have no issues dropping $500 to $1000 for a gallon of color, and another $3-$500 for clear on a high end paint product, it is what it is...but for some, the dollar amount decides the "quality" of paint....generally I refuse to paint a customers car with inferior grade economy lines offered by many of the current paint mfg's


So A34 is a $ fiqure part of your paint selection?, I know we all want the best bang for our buck, but we all have to pay the piper at some point

Mike

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I hope I never have to paint it again in my lifetime. So, for the next 40+ years what will stand the test of time?

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All very good choices for top of the line paints listed so far.....but the OP hasn't given a dollar figure he has in mind just for product alone, if he hasn't purchased paint ever, or product in some time, he's in for a shock, I have no issues dropping $500 to $1000 for a gallon of color, and another $3-$500 for clear on a high end paint product, it is what it is...but for some, the dollar amount decides the "quality" of paint....generally I refuse to paint a customers car with inferior grade economy lines offered by many of the current paint mfg's


So A34 is a $ fiqure part of your paint selection?, I know we all want the best bang for our buck, but we all have to pay the piper at some point

Mike

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Good question and point. My paint guy originally said he would use Glasurit, now he wants to use PPG. Ultimately, he said he'd use whatever I want. I'm trying to understand the rankings of quality. I want something that will give the longest lasting shine. I hope I never have to paint it again in my lifetime. So, for the next 40+ years what will stand the test of time?

Budget? Like most resto's I'm way over budget as is. What's another Grand? $500 to $1000 for paint is ok with me.

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If the choice for you is Glasurit or PPG, ...I wouldn't hesitate to use Glasurit, IMHO PPG's line has always been sub-par as far as a quality/lasting product, esp for a vehicle you value, and plan on retaining...I only believe in restoring and painting a vehicle ONCE, unless there's been a accident/incident involving the vehicles finish, one should expect the finish to outlast them, the same goes for bodywork/rust prevention



FYI Glasurit has a very good color matching system offering up to 4/5 Alts in some colors, very heavy in solids, I hope your painter has shot it before? if going Glasurit, make sure it's the 55 line which is BC/CC, avoid Glasurit's RM or Limco line, that's the cheap "production" stuff (bodyshop blow out crap)...

Mike

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Hey Guys,

What are some of the higher end paint brands these days for a base/clear paint job? Is PPG still a top of the line paint?

Thanks!

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I believe Sikkens is one of the top brands, above PPG and Dupont. web page

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Hey Guys,

What are some of the higher end paint brands these days for a base/clear paint job? Is PPG still a top of the line paint?

Thanks!

---

I believe Sikkens is one of the top brands, above PPG and Dupont. web page

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My friend is the Sikkens rep for this area and painted my car. We mistakenly painted the inspection covers in the engine bay gloss black. He told me to take them home and cabinet blast them and bring them back to be painted semi gloss. My cabinet blaster would not touch that paint! That and the number of "best paint" awards and "best of show" awards that the car has racked up due to the paint, makes me a Sikkens man all the way

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I represented them for 3 years, I was told Sikkens is used on like Mercedes, BMW and other hi end European cars, Lesonal is for like chevys, fords and mopars and U tech is for like farm implements.
This car is painted with Sikkens and is the nicest paint I have ever seen. It was not buffed or sanded. The panels were carried out of the paint booth and out to my trailer and put on the car at Axzo Nobel.
The guy in the black shirt is Tom Conway, he helped me tune my car. I have 6 guys on my team not counting Tom. Mike my crew chief is getting ready to turn on the racepak as soon as I put it into the first set of light beams.(pre stage)

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I use dupont chromabase on almost everything now... mixed 1 to 1, a gallon will do a car in and out. Been using it and dupont clear for years. I used to use ppg, too expensive and not any better in my opinion than dupont.

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Guy I know had his high dollar 71 curious yellow GTX painted using Dupont instead of PPG who has the orignial formulas for the colors.
Guess what...... WRONG color and now he has to live with it at every show, so much that he quit showing the car. He wishes now he would have spent the money for that too expensive paint.

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And there's no guarantee that ppg would have been correct either if it was mixed wrong... so sounds like the painter or who mixed it is to blame, not dupont!

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I use dupont chromabase on almost everything now... mixed 1 to 1, a gallon will do a car in and out. Been using it and dupont clear for years. I used to use ppg, too expensive and not any better in my opinion than dupont.

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Guy I know had his high dollar 71 curious yellow GTX painted using Dupont instead of PPG who has the orignial formulas for the colors.
Guess what...... WRONG color and now he has to live with it at every show, so much that he quit showing the car. He wishes now he would have spent the money for that too expensive paint.

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And there's no guarantee that ppg would have been correct either if it was mixed wrong... so sounds like the painter or who mixed it is to blame, not dupont!

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Why would the PPG supplier who has the correct formulas and equipment mix it wrong? The chances of that are 1000 to 1.

The dupont system does not have the correct color formulas for these cars like PPG has. So it is your choice. Guess at the color with Dupont and let them try to match the paint on an old part of the car or try to pick the correct yellow off a Dupont paint chart. There isn't one on their charts for curious yellow.

OR just get the correct color from PPG?????? I don't care who's paint YOU use, but without any doubt PPG has the color formulas that are correct for these cars. They were the original paint supplier.So at least you are starting out with the correct color.

The painter didn't mix it the Dupont supplier did with out the original formula. That's why it was wrong.

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And like I said, "or who mixed it is to blame" There have been colors I haven't been able to get, I don't have them guess and mix it, hoping it's the right color. So it's duponts fault someone screwed up mixing it? You can't blame a whole line for one persons mistake

I have used PPG, I never said it's bad paint... I said it's too expensive. Doesn't mean I won't use it, but I try to avoid it when possible. And having used both many times, I see no advantage other than sometimes the color does match better, but not always.

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I use dupont chromabase on almost everything now... mixed 1 to 1, a gallon will do a car in and out. Been using it and dupont clear for years. I used to use ppg, too expensive and not any better in my opinion than dupont.

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Guy I know had his high dollar 71 curious yellow GTX painted using Dupont instead of PPG who has the orignial formulas for the colors.
Guess what...... WRONG color and now he has to live with it at every show, so much that he quit showing the car. He wishes now he would have spent the money for that too expensive paint.

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And there's no guarantee that ppg would have been correct either if it was mixed wrong... so sounds like the painter or who mixed it is to blame, not dupont!

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Why would the PPG supplier who has the correct formulas and equipment mix it wrong? The chances of that are 1000 to 1.

The dupont system does not have the correct color formulas for these cars like PPG has. So it is your choice. Guess at the color with Dupont and let them try to match the paint on an old part of the car or try to pick the correct yellow off a Dupont paint chart. There isn't one on their charts for curious yellow.

OR just get the correct color from PPG?????? I don't care who's paint YOU use, but without any doubt PPG has the color formulas that are correct for these cars. They were the original paint supplier.So at least you are starting out with the correct color.

The painter didn't mix it the Dupont supplier did with out the original formula. That's why it was wrong.

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And like I said, "or who mixed it is to blame" There have been colors I haven't been able to get, I don't have them guess and mix it, hoping it's the right color. So it's duponts fault someone screwed up mixing it? You can't blame a whole line for one persons mistake

I have used PPG, I never said it's bad paint... I said it's too expensive. Doesn't mean I won't use it, but I try to avoid it when possible. And having used both many times, I see no advantage other than sometimes the color does match better, but not always.

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I use dupont chromabase on almost everything now... mixed 1 to 1, a gallon will do a car in and out. Been using it and dupont clear for years. I used to use ppg, too expensive and not any better in my opinion than dupont.

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Guy I know had his high dollar 71 curious yellow GTX painted using Dupont instead of PPG who has the orignial formulas for the colors.
Guess what...... WRONG color and now he has to live with it at every show, so much that he quit showing the car. He wishes now he would have spent the money for that too expensive paint.

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And there's no guarantee that ppg would have been correct either if it was mixed wrong... so sounds like the painter or who mixed it is to blame, not dupont!

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Why would the PPG supplier who has the correct formulas and equipment mix it wrong? The chances of that are 1000 to 1.

The dupont system does not have the correct color formulas for these cars like PPG has. So it is your choice. Guess at the color with Dupont and let them try to match the paint on an old part of the car or try to pick the correct yellow off a Dupont paint chart. There isn't one on their charts for curious yellow.

OR just get the correct color from PPG?????? I don't care who's paint YOU use, but without any doubt PPG has the color formulas that are correct for these cars. They were the original paint supplier.So at least you are starting out with the correct color.

The painter didn't mix it the Dupont supplier did with out the original formula. That's why it was wrong.

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And like I said, "or who mixed it is to blame" There have been colors I haven't been able to get, I don't have them guess and mix it, hoping it's the right color. So it's duponts fault someone screwed up mixing it? You can't blame a whole line for one persons mistake

I have used PPG, I never said it's bad paint... I said it's too expensive. Doesn't mean I won't use it, but I try to avoid it when possible. And having used both many times, I see no advantage other than sometimes the color does match better, but not always.

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Like I mentioned earlier, but I guess you didn't read it?, paint formulation in the last few years while trying to comply with VOC compliance, amongst other industry regulations, plus computer formulation/programs, has become streamlined, many mix formulas no longer support chemicals long gone due to VOC, plus the elimination of ALTernate formula/tints, or combining them into one formula has changed many mix formulas thru the entire paint industry, regardless of manufacturers, I'll give you an example of your "revered" PPG "original formulas" ....you go into the PPG computer program for 1970 PPG Plum Crazy Purple PPG # 2210 in the past you had 2 ALTernate formula tints, which one was correct?....you now had 2 shade/tint formulas that tweaked the color (reason why you see so many different shades of purple at a show, or when you go back for more paint, the color is off, even though the same guy/place mixed it before)...TODAY the PPG computer mix program for FC7 PPG 2210 Plum Crazy will call up and interface the PPG paint code 5463, although it will print PPG code 2210 for the mix label, the actual formula for the base, binder, balancer, tints, flop control agents, etc, etc will be for PPG 5463, a color PPG has determined to be "close enough" for you the consumer, so much for "accuracy"...

Like I said before there's no magical mix formula, from PPG or anyone, anymore, been that way from day one, any paint mfg's paint line can be made to match...even back in the day, when all we sprayed was enamel single stage, regardless of mfg, PPG, Dupont, Ditzsler, BASF, etc, etc all had ALTernate formulas to achieve a "match" so the mixer wasn't playing chemist to achieve a match, high end body shops would mix their own paint and tint accordingly to "match", but that was more for color blending of a repair than a revered restoration color match that most like to invoke today,


you want an accurate color match?, regardless of the paint mfg, you need a clean undisturbed area/component from the vehicle if you have it that hasn't been effected by degradation ....otherwise you stuck researching the color needed from the mfg you desire....going to the "original" OEM supplier is no guarantee of a color formula that is correct....back in the day, and even today the auto mfg's buy paint in vast bulk, do you think every vehicle produced week after week, month after month in the "same" color is the same EXACT shade of paint sprayed?...certainly not

Mike

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You don't need to explain it to me... I'm well aware already. I recall a few colors I've sprayed having over 10 variations Nothing like having options! My point was you can't blame a line of paint, one being dupont from the poster above about the color being wrong... they didn't mix it in the incorrect shade at the factory. Someone else mixed the paint, then someone else proceeded to paint a car the wrong shade. Then they apparently proceeded to assemble and finish the car in the wrong shade... color was so off though, but they didn't catch it til done